The Ick Factor.

[Withywindle]

I still see posts here from people who say they don't "like" gay marriage, or don't want to see those queers doing PDA in their public space, or always try to work GLBT issues down to sexual acts, as if that's what defines anyone.

Truth is, many, many people feel something like an "ick factor" when living with "The Other." I'm a woman who's had male partners who act like feminine hygiene products are garlic and they're vampires (and I'm like, holy shit, I'm 41 and I've used this stuff every month since I was 12, it doesn't get anymore normal and mundane). I'm a bi-ethnic person who has spent WAY too much time listening to people who assume I"m "white" like them and so feel free to go on at great length about those ICKY "others" and their smelly food and weird accents. And apparently some people acting as concern trolls to defend the honor of Ground Zero seem to think that sacred ground is hopelessly desecrated forever if there are icky, creepy Muslims praying near it.

What I'm asking with this thread is, if you're over 12, please examine your own thought processes and get yourself OVER your gut-level, emotional, kneejerk, irrational ick factors, no matter the group involved. If a particular group gives you the "ick" ASK YOURSELF WHY and then educate yourself about what that group is really about before you go spewing ignorant and hurtful crap all over an allegedly progressive board. Thank you.

[PDJane]

1. Thank you.

[Withywindle]

12. You're welcome.

[bjobotts]

45. After examining the Ick I feel about teabagging Taliban repubs, I now know it's cause I''m sane

[undergroundpanther]

2. off to the greatest..with the OP

And yeah,I agree some adults are as emotionally mature as 6 year olds scared of 'cooties'.They need to get over themselves NOW.

[Withywindle]

8. Thank you.

I remember how hurtful the 'cootie' games were when I was little. I grew up in an area that was pretty isolated and right-wing, and the playground bullying was all about "ick factor." It was classist, racist, homophobic, sexist, you name it - full of nine-year-olds yelling "f**" and "n*****" and "wh***".

Wasn't OK when you're 9, and certainly much less OK with every year that is supposed to build up wisdom.

[TriMera]

3. Thank you and well said. +1 n/t

[Withywindle]

13. You're welcome, thank you! n/t

[Seneca]

4. You're awesome

Another good 'un by one of my favorite DUers.

[Withywindle]

15. Thank you, sweets

:hug:

[aquart]

5. And if something unpopular with the majority makes you feel queasy, don't say so.

Because only the majority opinion matters and the rest is icky.

[Withywindle]

9. Say whatever you want.

But if whatever you want to say is bigoted, expect to be called on it. Because there is definitely no Constitutional protection against having people argue with you.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. That made no sense whatsoever. -nt

[Withywindle]

19. That poster is feeling persecuted

because the majority opinion on DU (which I agree with) is that it's not OK to banish Muslims from building a community center (open to all) in Lower Manhattan.

Because. You know. Nine-eleven.

[leftstreet]

6. What is 'doing PDA in their public space' ??

:shrug:

[Withywindle]

10. "Public Display of Affection."

That's what PDA stands for. You see it all the time everywhere--couples holding hands, kissing, displaying pictures of each other on their desks at work. Some people think that gay or lesbian couples doing what straight couples have always taken for granted is "rubbing homosexuality in their faces." I have no respect for that argument.

[leftstreet]

11. Oh duh. LOL I was thinking of palm pilots

and I thought wtf?

:rofl:

[Withywindle]

14. Ahahah, we're probably the same generation.

I remember when the PDA was the apex of personal tech. :rofl:

[RandomThoughts]

7. You make a good point.

The same 'breaking of empathy' I mentioned that thinking of thoughts of being in some group can cause.

Can occur by calling other people that like being in those groups vampires.

There was a long post about bankers being vampires, and it comments on how some groups can use ideas of superiority to break empathy.

But calling those very people vampires really can do the same thing, break empathy.


So most people do the same things, so maybe finding why people feel certain ways and trying to help them understand, while trying to learn to understand, if that is how you or they want to feel might be better.

So after thinking on your post, I should say, when I comment on topics like some groups living off other people, it is not to say that we all do not do that to some degree, but mentioning it with the intent of concepts of maybe bringing some moderation into how a person lives and by that helping many people, as many rich and elite people do... even if vamps :) LOL


Although I hope I don't say hurtful things, I do wonder if some might see some things as that way.



The whole concept probably applies to your topic of post also, although not sure exactly how, it probably does from both sides thinking about the other sides. Which is what I think you said.


But you bring up a funny point about being childish, and am glad you posted and am thinking on that general topic.


Here is the funny thing. I am already owed compensation. I know that, actually spent years just thinking on that topic to be sure. Yet guess what, by knowing that fact, I wont chase the carrot, and that gives no enjoyment to unjust things. Why would, when already owed, why would a person do the same things to try and get what they already have? And from my observations that pisses off some things that want me to run in circles.

Once I have deduced I already have things, then it would be silly to do things to try and get those things again. And many call that being childish, or say things like it is whining about things. On the contrary, ha, I don't have to chase the carrot, the carrot is already mine, and if it is kept away, then it shows the fault of the thing that keeps it away, not my fault for it not being here.

And I won't play their game, which gives me much laughter. And part of that game is not thinking that I can just make the carrot appear, on the contrary weather the carrot is hear or not, it is mine, and that is enough to know, since that is within my control, and if something wants to be unjust and keep it away, that is there choice.





AC/DC Thunderstruck
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zvoeeq-BH4w

[Hekate]

16. Well done. Thank you, and KnR.

Rachel Maddow likes to say that it's the other person's problem is they "get skeezed out" thinking about gays and lesbians getting married.

"Skeezed out" is not a term I've heard elsewhere, but it is evocative and I think she's right. As are you.

Hekate

[Withywindle]

17. Thanks and you're welcome.

I personally get skeezed out by imagining dumpy old right-wing men having sex...and my answer is? I don't imagine it if I can help it. I admit I feel some ick there. But that doesn't mean I think their marriages should be invalid.

[lib_wit_it]

25. I thought she was saying "skeeved out", from "skeevy" which has been around ever since I can

remember: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/skeevy
I have to post the whole entry, though, because of the excellent Walmart reference:

Main Entry: skeevy
Part of Speech: adj

Definition: disgusting or distasteful; nasty, sleazy
Example: Some say Wal-mart and other big box stores are skeevy operations.
Etymology: from Italian schifo 'disgust'
Usage: US


At the same link you'll find this entry from the Slang Dictionary which I post in its entirety because I wonder if I'm the only one who has no idea what a butterface is (though I could guess it's a sweaty person...?)

skeevy
<ˈskivi>

1. mod.
sleazy and disgusting. : That butterface sure looks skeevy.


So both use "sleazy" in the definition, so perhaps that's where Rachel got the z in place of the v which took over for the similar-sounding f in the Italian schifo.

OK, so I'm a word nerd. I can accept that.

[Hekate]

37. Thanks, lib_wit_it and bettyellen for filling me in! Not having lived anywhere near NYC...

... is my only excuse.

I'm a word nerd too, and love collecting the yummy little things.

Hekate
:hi:

[lib_wit_it]

38. Just be careful--some folks out there in "real" Murka don't take kindly to those of us who know the

big words!

Like "civil rights," "justice," "compassion"...

We'd best keep our word-nerdiness to ourselves.
:fistbump:

[bettyellen]

28. it's skeeved, common NY slang

[Vickers]

20. Unfortunately, you edited out the part I wanted to respond to.

Edit: I'm a dumbass!

The part I wanted to respond to is actually a reply downthread where you posted, "I admit I feel some ick there. But that doesn't mean I think their marriages should be invalid."

I'm not even sure what that dynamic is (empathy? minding one's own fucking business?), but it is sorely lacking in American culture.

Kudos!

[Withywindle]

21. Yup, still there, thanks!

Empathy is a very good progressive value, and so is minding one's own fucking business. I heartily support both! (An they're not even mutually exclusive!)

I just get really, really fucking bummed out by various flavors of bigotry on DU. I expect bigotry from the right wing, but when I see it here, I'm like, "seriously...? Really...? Why? Have you thought this through? If you haven't...please do, I think you need to."

[Vickers]

22. Thanks for your gracious reply. FTR, I am still working on getting any

bigotry out of my system, not there yet but getting there. Hell, by the time I die I'm gonna be perfect!

[Withywindle]

23. No one has fully excised it. I sure haven't.

I just think it's a worthy project to work on. :)

[Hekate]

24. It's surely a journey for all of us.

[MineralMan]

26. While there's no longer a need, I have always done the shopping for my

wife and I since we were married. I can't imagine why any man would be so icked-out about buying those products. I know that many men are, but it's about the silliest thing I can think of to be concerned about. The only difficult thing about it is the enormous variety available on the shelves, but that's easy. You just ask your wife exactly which brand and type she wants and buy those.

Uff da! Sometimes grown men act a lot like 10-year-old boys, it seems.

[felix_numinous]

27. People need to grow up!!!!

Seems like some people never got this speech as a child:

It is a big world and there's many different people living in it. To make a better world we have to all get along, or we'll just spend the whole time fighting..........

If they don't get it, they never get it.

Reminds me of a 60s Star Trek episode where two guys with opposite black and white bodies had to be let loose on a planet to fight it out there. Kirk just gave up on them.

[Karenina]

29. Stars on Thars

for those who remember the Sneetches.

[felix_numinous]

33. Love Dr Seuss

My very favorite books as a child. :)

[Ricochet21]

36. I agree

I agree

[SalmonChantedEvening]

30. Je t'adore.

Well done Withy. :loveya:

[pipi_k]

31. But I want to know why it's not OK

for someone to (respectfully) say "I don't like _____ but I do support the rights of others to engage in said activity"?

I mean, it's not enough that people will gladly endorse someone else's rights to do as they wish, but they also have to LIKE what they're endorsing?


Granted, saying something like "Queers and PDAs in public"...well that's just rude and unnecessary.


But can't someone have the right to not like something while still being an advocate for others without people piling on that person DEMANDING to know WHY he doesn't like whatever it is? I mean, it's not like someone saying, "I don't like it, therefore YOU can't do it".


So when someone says, "I don't like it, but I fully support your right to do it" wouldn't the gracious, civilized response be something along the lines of..."I understand your position and I thank you for your support"

?

Or am I expecting too much from civilized adults?

:shrug:

[MH1]

39. Excellent point

I don't much care what two consenting adults do with each other privately, and I don't see why anyone else should care, or why my tax $$ should fund anyone caring about it; but there are a lot of things I'd rather not have shoved in my face. (so to speak) And that goes for both gay and straight behaviors.

[Fire1]

43. Asking that you examine your "feelings" and personal prejudices

is not "shoving" anything "in your face." A little self-examination never hurt anybody.

edit to add: "A little EDUCATION and self-examination never hurt anybody."

[MH1]

48. I never said it was.

Simply agreeing with the other poster that having preferences about behavior is not necessarily prejudice. (am I 'prejudiced' about foods containing coconut or people who serve such foods, just because I can't stand the stuff myself?)

Oh I was in the Army (pre-DADT). I had "self-examination" of my attitudes toward different sexual orientations forced on me, regardless of the official policy. And that was probably a good thing, although at the time it annoyed the hell out of me that my roommate on an assignment in Korea didn't want to go to the same kind of bars as I did. I would have preferred a roommate of my own orientation for that reason alone. :)

[WildEyedLiberal]

44. I run into this a lot with the "legalize pot" crowd

I hate pot. Hate it. I tried it a couple of times and have no intention of ever doing it again. However, I believe it should be completely legal, for a variety of reasons. But there are some threads around here where the virtues of marijuana are touted so highly that you'd think it was a wonder drug. Good Lord, people, you can believe that pot should be legal (and it should be) without forcing everyone to admit that it's completely harmless or even actively beneficial.

I don't really understand people who have the "ick factor" reaction about LGBT issues, because what other consenting people do shouldn't bother anyone. Unlike the "pot is awesome and everyone would be more mellow if we all just smoked a bowl" crowd, I don't see the LGBT community out there recruiting others into their fold - RW conspiracies about free toasters aside :D

[Spazito]

32. Well said!

Recommended.

[varelse]

34. I cannot recommend this enough

but I am going to pass it along to my progressive family members who will appreciate it :)

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Fire1]

40. DAYUM!!! People are KICKIN ASS on this board tonight!!!

WHAT YOU SAID!!! IS SO PROFOUND!!! OMG!!! This is among the best posts I've seen around here in a LOOOOOOONG time!:wow: :thumbsup: :toast:

[Canuckistanian]

41. Sage advice

Now, if you could just get this message out on the public airwaves.....

[DeSwiss]

42. Thank you for posting this. K&R

[Ignis]

46. K&R. Spot on!

:kick:

[Zoeisright]

47. That's exactly right.

And face it, the sex lives of anybody other than yourself is going to be icky.

My question is, why are these homophobes thinking about gay sex so much?