The ADL Sez: "It's Not that We're Prejudiced, BUT..."

[Pamela Troy]

From An Anti-Defamation League Press Release, 7/28/10:

We regard freedom of religion as a cornerstone of the American democracy, and that freedom must include the right of all Americans – Christian, Jewish, Muslim, and other faiths – to build community centers and houses of worship.

That’s nice.

We categorically reject appeals to bigotry on the basis of religion, and condemn those whose opposition to this proposed Islamic Center is a manifestation of such bigotry.

“Categorically reject” and “condemn” in the same sentence, followed by clause implying that opposition to the proposed Islamic Center might be based on something other than raw bigotry? Uh oh. I sense a qualifier, some enormous “HOWEVER” or “BUT” heading towards us at full speed.

However…

There ya go.

… there are understandably strong passions and keen sensitivities surrounding the World Trade Center site. We are ever mindful of the tragedy which befell our nation there, the pain we all still feel – and especially the anguish of the families and friends of those who were killed on September 11, 2001.

See, it’s not them! It’s not the ADL! It’s… well… all those other people who feel soooo strongly about it because they lost family and friends in 9/11. It’s not that the ADL is prejudiced, or anything like that. No, not at all! It’s that the ADL feels just so bad for all those people who are sad and traumatized by the relatives they lost. They categorically reject all those other people (Ick!) who are motivated by bigotry. The ADL isn’t like that at all!

For them, it’s all about compassion for the victims!

That’s what it is!

Because we all know that no Muslims were among the victims killed by terrorists in the World Trade Center.

Unless you count these people. (This is only a partial list of the Muslim victims of 9/11.)

Shabbir Ahmed, 47, waiter at Windows on the World.

Tariq Amanullah, 40, VP Fiduciary Trust International

Touri Bolourchi, 69, passenger on board United Airlines Flight 175. Fled Iran’s Fundamentalist Muslim regime with her family 21 years ago.

Abdul K. Chowdhury, 30, worked at Cantor Fitzgerald

Mohammed Salahuddin Chowdhury, 38, waiter at Windows on the World. Left behind a pregnant wife and a young daughter

Syed Abdul Fatha, 54, Pitney Bowes Copy Center at Aon Insurance

Salman Hamdani, 23. A trained emergency medical technician, he apparently rushed to the burning towers to assist in the rescue. His remains were found at the site.

Mohammed Jawara, 30, MAS Security

Sarah Kahn, 32, Cafeteria Manager for Forte Food, left behind a husband and two children

Nurul Huq Miah, 35, audio-visual audiovisual technologist, Marsh & McLennan Cos. Inc.

Boyie Mohammed, 50, Carr Futures

Ehtesham U. Raja, 28, TCG Software, was attending a conference at the World Trade Center

Amenia Rasool, 33, accountant, Marsh & McLennan Cos. Inc. Left behind a husband and four young children

Rahma Salie, 28, died with her husband Michael Theodoris, 32, on American flight 11. They were expecting their first child.

Mohammed Shajahan, 41 computer administrator, Marsh & McLennan Cos. Inc.

No mealy-mouthed "explanation" is going to change the fact that the ADL has embraced the kind of bigotry it was originally founded to fight.

[Forkboy]

1. K&R

[elleng]

2. Damn!

[sixmile]

3. K&R

Must be a slow weekend. A month or two ago there would have been many here arguing FOR bigotry in a symphony of coordinated talking points until the thread was moved to I/P.

[katandmoon]

4. K&R to the max. The ADL did to Muslims what it EXISTS for to protect JEWS from.

Way to go, ADL, you just totally blew your credibility outta the water.

[lunasun]

70. yes the irony of it all!

What would the ADL not understand about how their support + statement are viewed as unjust in America????
duh
Well now we at least know a little about their 'true colors'.......

[Greyhound]

5. K&R for some truth. n/t

[treestar]

6. The VP of Fiduciary Trust International

Might not be hard to find DU posts trashing his job, not thinking about it in these terms.

[DavidDvorkin]

7. The ADL will have very serious fund-raising problems as a result of this.

[TheKentuckian]

8. Pretty damned disgusting and anti-American

[sabrina 1]

9. Shameful, especially coming from an org. that claims to be

the watchdogs for this kind of prejudice.

I think they have just completely discredited themselves.

Thank you for this OP. I know Muslims had been killed on 9/11 but had not seen a list of names before. I guess it wouldn't have suited the narrative to honor their memories.

Sometimes you just want to give up on human beings.

[Warren DeMontague]

10. Usually I agree with the ADL, but not here.

Honestly, I think the thing that is going unsaid is, someone ought to give the Islamic Center props for being willing to build something there, at all. I mean, how long are they going to leave those giant flashlights, up? Wasn't there supposed to be a "Freedom Tower" there, or something, by now?

[Althaia]

14. what is NOT being reported by fox, etc

is that they are not building a mosque, but a community center right next to an already existing mosque. It is also nowhere near 9/11 ground zero - I think it is 2 blocks away? - and Ground Zero cannot be seen from the proposed construction site.

[Warren DeMontague]

69. It's a bullshit "furor", I agree.

Which is probably why it's on FOX.

[66 dmhlt]

21. Disagree w/ the ADL? You're in good company!

J Street Statement on Cordoba House Controversy

The principle at stake in the Cordoba House controversy goes to the heart of American democracy and the value we place on freedom of religion. Should one religious group in this country be treated differently than another? We believe the answer is no.

http://www.jstreet.org/blog/?p=1177

ADL Enables Anti-Muslim Bigotry

Let's be clear. This is not about the proposed Islamic Center. There is already a masjid in the neighborhood, and it's been there for decades. This is about giving political cover to right-wing politicians using anti-Muslim bigotry as a political weapon and a fundraising tool. By doing this the ADL is increasingly eroding its already weakened credibility as a non-partisan organization.

http://www.prospect.org/csnc/blogs/adam_serwer_archive?month=07&year=2010&base_name=adl_condemns_enables_antimusli

A correction request

You cannot "categorically reject appeals to bigotry" and then back precisely the outcome those bigots back. You are in essence saying you agree with the bigots but just wish they would be a little nicer about it. You are in essence saying that the right to worship and assemble peaceably should be curbed when exercising those rights might run counter to "strong passions" and "keen sensitivities". You are in essence saying that grievance trumps first-amendment protections. This is a position unworthy of an organisation that claims to defend civil rights.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/democracyinamerica/2010/07/religion

[pmorlan1]

11. Excellent Post

Thank you for exposing their statement for what it is.

[UndertheOcean]

12. thanks !

[BrklynLiberal]

13. THANK YOU!! for that list of Muslims who died in the WTC. There are those who seem to believe

there were no Muslims there that day who were victims....

The entry of the ADL into this circus is more than a disappointment.
It appears to indicate a total disintegration of the principles of tolerance and anti-racism upon which the ADL has stood.

From what I have read, we have the latest head of the ADL, a Neocon, to thank for this disgusting turn of events.

[Scurrilous]

15. Gawker: ADL Sides With Bigots Against Ground Zero Mosque, Officially Outlives Its Purpose

<snip>

"The Anti-Defamation League has issued a pathetic statement opposing Cordoba House, aka the "Ground Zero Mosque." While the ADL condemns the bigotry galvanizing Cordoba's opponents, and thinks proponents have "every right" to build there... it says they shouldn't anyway. Huh?

This single, amazing paragraph from the statement of the ADL, the premier Jewish civil rights organization, has already been widely mocked for its apparent animosity towards logic:

Proponents of the Islamic Center may have every right to build at this site, and may even have chosen the site to send a positive message about Islam. The bigotry some have expressed in attacking them is unfair, and wrong. But ultimately this is not a question of rights, but a question of what is right. In our judgment, building an Islamic Center in the shadow of the World Trade Center will cause some victims more pain —unnecessarily — and that is not right.

So they have every right to build there and may even have a "positive message about Islam" to send, by showing that the United States does not lump all Muslims in with Al Qaeda. "Some" opponents may be bigoted enough to believe that a Muslim community center two blocks from Ground Zero is offensive, because Muslims = 9/11. Well, the bigots should win anyway! Productive day at the office, ADL."

http://gawker.com/5600854/adl-sides-with-bigots-against-ground-zero-mosque-officially-outlives-its-purpose

[Douglas Carpenter]

16. The Defamation League by Joe Klein ---

The journey of the (Anti-)Defamation League from beacon of tolerance to slightly potty geyser of toxic foolishness continues apace. Two years ago, Abe Foxman--the ADL's very much over the hill president--accused me of anti-semitism for pointing out the Israel-first tendencies of more than a few neoconservatives, especially when it came to plumping for war with Iran (if you don't believe me, read anything--anything--that the goofy harridan Jennifer Rubin writes about Israel or President Obama over at the Commentary blog). Then, earlier this year, Foxman accused David Petraeus of being anti-Israel for making the indisputable point the the Israeli-Palestinian conflict doesn't make life any easier for US troops fighting in the region. And now Foxman has hit the jackpot, joining the intolerant know-nothings who are seeking to block the establishment of a mosque--actually an Islamic center-- near Ground Zero. The tragedy here is that the Islamic Center is precisely the sort of institution that the Anti-Defamation league traditionally supported:

Oz Sultan, the programming director for the center, said the complex was based on Jewish community centers and Y.M.C.A.'s in Manhattan. It is to have a board composed of Muslim, Christian and Jewish leaders and is intended to create a national model of moderate Islam.

“We are looking to build bridges between faiths,” Mr. Sultan said in an interview.

City officials, particularly Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg, have forcefully defended the project on the grounds of religious freedom, saying that government has no place dictating where a house of worship is located. The local community board has given overwhelming backing to the project, and the city's landmarks commission is expected to do the same on Tuesday.

“What is great about America, and particularly New York, is we welcome everybody, and if we are so afraid of something like this, what does that say about us?” Mr. Bloomberg asked recently.

During the high-tide of anti-semitism, and then again during the civil-rights movement, and often since, the Anti-Defamation League transcended its Jewish origins to stand as a courageous American voice against prejudice. But now, it's making a mockery of its original mission and, in the process, it has sullied American Judaism's intense tradition of tolerance and inclusion. I miss the old ADL and so does America. Foxman should be fired immediately. (Meanwhile, hooray yet again for Michael Bloomberg.)

http://swampland.blogs.time.com/2010/07/31/the-defamation-league/?xid=rss-topstories#ixzz0vIfS1g3b

[KG]

17. color me surprised.

:eyes:

[Spheric]

18. K&R /nt

[Violet_Crumble]

19. Well said! I've just sent a complaint to the ADL about what they've said...

If enough people voice their opposition to the embrace of bigotry by the ADL they might sit up and take notice and get rid of Foxman...

[Douglas Carpenter]

20. kick and recommend!!

[Honeycombe8]

22. In your list you forgot to include the hijackers....they were killed, too.

Should we shed tears for them?


This is not an easy issue. People in America do for the most part respect the presence of all sorts of places of worship. But putting it right across the street from Ground Zero does sort of seem like an "in your face" gotcha grab. There were other places, right?

Still, they have rights.

It's just not that cut and dried to me. I understand the sensitivity of the issue of the families of those who were killed against the faith responsible for their loved ones' death putting a monument of sorts near the site. I ask myself...why would they even suggest such a site?

Still, it's my understanding that the NY City Council, or whatever body makes those decisions, approved the site. So it's a done deal.

I suspect the place will be torched or something later. It's sort of like the KKK building a center across the street from an Af. American center. They have every right to do it. But you just know that there will be trouble over it down the line. It's an intentional "in your face" position. (Not that the KKK is like a muslim church; but from the others' point of view, they represent people who are responsible for killing their loved ones.)

[Crystal Clarity]

23. So are you equating Muslims with the KKK?

:shrug: Sounds that way.

[Honeycombe8]

33. You didn't read the whole post. nt

[LostinVA]

46. The poster is correct -- that is exactly the analogy you presented

You didn't even try to "make it work" by saying across from a Black church they blew up.

And, teh community center is NOT "across teh street from Ground Zero."

[marmar]

24. So, an Islamic Community Center is equivalent to the KKK?

I can't decide whether that's just intellectually dishonest or plain stupid. Or both.

[Honeycombe8]

34. You didn't read the whole post. nt

[LostinVA]

48. Own what you said, because that IS what you said

You have a right to your opinion, no matter how misguided it may be.

And, yes, I read your whole post. Twice.

[Occulus]

56. I *did* read the whole post and I agree with those taking exception to it.

Get your facts straight. It isn't "right across the street", and it isn't anything like the KKK building something across the street from an African American community center.

You FAIL. Miserably and publicly.

[bherrera]

25. I do apologize but

Maybe your statement is wrong because there is no inherent opposition to trade or the USA by Muslims. The building was destroyed because it was a symbol of the USA empire, and not because it was representing a race or a particular religion. In Europe, we are surprised to see the USA evolve in such a fashion, it is as if many Americans do not understand the reasons why the US was attacked, which were caused by the US policies, this is well known.

[KG]

27. no need to apologize, your summation is quite succinct.

[Honeycombe8]

32. As I said, the similarity from the viewpoint of "the offended"

is that the center/church is being built by those of a group who killed their loved ones because of who they were.

Politically and in other ways, the two groups are different, of course.

Seems my argument is correct, since no one can seem to counter it correctly, and only focus on how horrible the KKK is (and it is). Still, the main analagy is correct....KKK responsible for killing minorities because of who they were, builds a center across the street from the site where some of its members killed a large number of minorities.

They have the right. But it's not conducive to a healing process, and it does sort of smack of an "in your face" thing. If you look at it from the viewpoint of the families of those who were murdered. But it doesn't seem as if many on this board are looking at it from that viewpoint.

[superduperfarleft]

35. What part of "it's not across the street" do you not understand? n/t

[Bjorn Against]

39. Because Timothy McVeigh was an American...

I am going to oppose any Americans building any structures in Oklahoma City. After all according to your logic we shouldn't allow any structures to be "built by those of a group who killed their loved ones because of who they were" and the average American has just as much connection to Timothy McVeigh as the Muslims building the community center have to the 9/11 hijackers.

I am looking forward to the day you join me in standing up against the Americans who have the nerve to build structures in an area that a completely unrelated American committed an act of terrorism.

[LostinVA]

50. Or an American with blond hair, or a military vet

Exactly!

[MattBaggins]

51. No you can't see the forest not the people poitning out your false analogy

You are in fact comparing Islam to the KKK.

The KKK existed only to terrorize black people.
Islam only exists to terrorize Christian people.

This is what you are saying whether you intended to or not. People rightly point out your silly false analogy and yet you choose to defend it.

I'm sorry but your post indicates a need for some soul searching on your part. When this center is finished you ought to visit it.

[Crystal Clarity]

55. Yes I did... read your whole post

And this one as well where you are trying to make yet another of the same equation, only differentiating between the two, (in your words "politically") :eyes:

Your argument on behalf of 'the offended' is ridiculous. Muslims are no more responsible for the terrorist actions of the 9/11 hijackers then you or I for what Hitler did.

Throwing the KKK in there as part of the argument just makes it all that much worse.

[Chan790]

62. Um...

It's not across the street, it's 2 blocks away and will not be visible even when the new tower is built on the WTC site. There is another skyscraper betwixt those locations.

It's next to an already existing mosque. What's next? Are you going to suggest that we make them tear down the mosque that has been there since the 1970s so it doesn't offend 9/11 survivors?

The vocally-offended are a distinct and overwhelming minority of Manhattanites, are mostly made up of people from rural/conservative areas of the US who have never been and will never to go NYC and are being coordinated and led by a radical anti-Muslim bigot conservative blogger and pal of Ann Coulter named Pamela Geller.

Honestly, quit while you're ahead. As a former NYCer, I'm really-trying (and failing) not to laugh at you.

[LostinVA]

49. Exactly

[Heidi]

26. You're mistaken. It's a VERY easy issue.

There is NO comparison between mainstream Muslims and the KKK. There is NO comparison between mainstream Muslims and religious extremists who commit acts of terrorism.

And no, Muslims do NOT represent the minority of extremists who commit acts of terrorism. Do you believe that Christians represent the domestic terrorists who murder physicians (like Dr. Tiller) providing reproductive health services to women?

[Honeycombe8]

36. Anyone who sees issues of murder and the feelings of victims toward groups...

to which the murderers belonged as "easy," isn't really considering both sides.

[Heidi]

41. Again, you're mistaken.

"Feeling towards groups" implies a sort of bigotry of which I want no part. There are some of us far more attuned to nuance that you can grasp.

That a bigot is a victim does not make that person less a bigot.

[LostinVA]

52. I will agree with what Heidi says

It is, AT BEAT, "soft bigotry," but only for the uninformed. For the informed, it is nothing BUT bigotry. How can it be anything else???

[Chan790]

63. Um, you're not speaking for the victims.

As someone who witnessed the Pentagon attack and knows people who died in both DC and NYC, you're sure as fuck not speaking for me.

I've read this far in the thread thinking you're well-meaning and daft. Now, I'm just offended by you.

[Pamela Troy]

65. And when the victims were also a part of that group?

[Marr]

40. Are you saying religion has nothing to do with violent extremism?

I may be misreading your point. If so, I apologize.

Terrorism and murder is element of Islam just as it is an element of Christianity. You can't just ignore the occasional worshiper who decides to put his/her faith into action in a violent way. You can't just pretend they don't exist, or that they're not a part of the group. They are.

[Heidi]

43. No, that's not what I said, nor is it what I implied.

Broadbrush characterizations are bigoted, and I want no part of bigotry of any sort. Terrorism and murder are elements of the male community, (and the female community, as well), but that doesn't mean all men or all women are murderers or that men as a group or women as a group are responsible for the actions of a few of their respective gender who commit horrible acts.

[AlbertCat]

28. But putting it right across the street from Ground Zero

But it's not "right across the street".

So you're lying and comparing Islam to the KKK.

[superduperfarleft]

29. Stick to Texass, dearie, because you clearly didn't check an NYC map before you posted that blather.

It's not "right across the street." And what a fucked up analogy to compare a community center next door to a mosque to the fucking KKK. :puke:

[Honeycombe8]

37. Gee, when I grow up I hope I can use those big four letter words. Learn that at Harvard?

Just FYI...the community center has many parts, one of which is a MOSQUE.

I'm so sorry you're uninformed. But people who feel they have to attack a poster on a personal basis and use juvenile words...well, it's usually because they don't have facts to fall back on.

Also...you can pick any group, a few of whose members murdered others because of who they are, and the analagy would apply. When you consider it from the viewpoint of the victims.

I considered it from the viewpoint of both. It doesn't seem that you have.

The victims weren't all Jewish, if that's the problem you're having.

[superduperfarleft]

38. "well, it's usually because they don't have facts to fall back on. "

No, it's usually because I don't feel the need to engage with bigots who can't read a map.

[MattBaggins]

53. And some of the victims were muslim if that's the problem your having. nt

[LostinVA]

54. No, it does NOT "have a Mosque" -- please educate yourself

Is a hospital a Cathedral because it has a chapel? Is a university? Is a YMCA a church because the "C" stands for "Christian"?

[Pamela Troy]

66. Nor were the victims all Christian.

As I point out in the OP, they included quite a few Muslims.

Can you grasp this?

[MattBaggins]

44. Your concerns spring from your on bigotry

You want to see imaginary boogeymen so you create them from nothing.


The center is not "across the street". This is nothing but a bogus excuse. Jerks and bigots are opposing Islamic centers all across the nation and it is always based on bigotry.

"I understand the sensitivity of the issue of the families of those who were killed against the faith responsible for their loved ones' death putting a monument of sorts near the site. I ask myself...why would they even suggest such a site?" Perhaps you need to do some soul searching and find the answer to this. First of all it was not a "faith" that killed the families it was a bunch of whackos and as many people have already said; Muslims died in that attack as well.

Perhaps your inability to see why a group might want to build a center for communication and bridge building shows a lack of understanding on your part. Perhaps your desire to see this as an "in your face" move is indicative of a deep seated prejudice on your part? Maybe that is why the center is being built?

[Unvanguard]

45. It's not "right across the street from Ground Zero"

and your analogy would work better if African-American centers, or the sites of KKK terrorist attacks, forever barred churches within several blocks, because KKK members were Christians.

But, of course, that would be absurd and discriminatory.

[Crunchy Frog]

47. Yeah. The Muslims who died in the WTC are just like all the other

"little Eichmanns" who died there. And none of them deserve our sympathy any more than the actual hijackers do. Or something like that.

[LeftishBrit]

57. You equate the victims with the hijackers?

[Catherina]

58. That's one of the most disgusting things I've ever read here.

"It's sort of like the KKK building a center across the street from an Af. American center"

:puke: :puke:

[sulphurdunn]

60. The extension of your argument

when applied to history leads me to infer that the sensitivities of Jews should be offended by the presence of Christians above all other people.

[Pamela Troy]

64. Are you Equating the victims of 9/11 with the people who killed them?

And are you truly unable to grasp that the victims of 9/11 include Muslims?

h: People in America do for the most part respect the presence of all sorts of places of worship. But putting it right across the street from Ground Zero does sort of seem like an "in your face" gotcha grab.

The proposed building is not "right across the street from Ground Zero," and even if it were, it would only qualify as a "gotcha grab" if you equate all Muslims with the 9/11 terrorist.

H: I suspect the place will be torched or something later. It's sort of like the KKK building a center across the street from an Af. American center.

Like hell it is.

Are you truly unable to understand that Muslim does NOT = terrorist? Is that concept just too complicated for you to process?

[Violet_Crumble]

67. Please don't equate Muslim victims with the hijackers. That's so wrong...

In fact, there's so much wrong with what you've posted in this thread that I don't know where to start. And I've read yr posts carefully just to save you copying and pasting 'You didn't read the whole post! n/t' in reply...

[Bjorn Against]

30. To make matters worse Foxman actually claimed that he is entitled to be a bigot

Asked why the opposition of the families was so pivotal in the decision, Mr. Foxman, a Holocaust survivor, said they were entitled to their emotions.

“Survivors of the Holocaust are entitled to feelings that are irrational,” he said. Referring to the loved ones of Sept. 11 victims, he said, “Their anguish entitles them to positions that others would categorize as irrational or bigoted.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/31/nyregion/31mosque.html?pagewanted=2&_r=2

Let's be clear, the ADL is not a civil rights group and they have not had any credibility for a long time.

[laughingliberal]

31. K & R nt

[superduperfarleft]

42. Can we stop with all this "muslim" nonsense, and realize that the actual problem the bigots have is

with brown people that may look like they are of Middle-Eastern descent?

[Turborama]

59. K&R & Thanks for the research. n/t

[defendandprotect]

61. Hartmann last week . . . Muslims lost on 9/11 were 9% of victims ... they're 6% of population....

and this Mosque is evidently four blocks from the notoriously named

"Ground Zero" -- !!

Was there a nuclear weapon used and that was the clue?

WTF?

[annabanana]

68. "Only two blocks away". . .

How much of the Country hears this and thinks of their little town? Two blocks!? Why that's well in the radius that you'd allow your kid to ride his bike. It's practically right next door.

Two blocks in downtown Manhattan probably has more than two zip codes. It has more people that many many little cities.

How much other "evil stuff that might kill you" is in that "two blocks"?

stupid phrase to scare stupid people.