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Wikileaks, Can someone name me one new thing we found out from them?

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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:10 PM
Original message
Wikileaks, Can someone name me one new thing we found out from them?
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 02:12 PM by jah the baptist
other than the names of people who were helping our side?

The pentagon papers revealed that Johnson planned to go into Vietnam before the Gulf of Tonkin events.

Is there anything remotely similar here?

or did, as i suspect, some kid piss his and others lives away for nothing?
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. all of that is true (which makes a farce of claims the leaked docs are dangerous)
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 02:14 PM by librechik
However, since the media had a sub rosa pact to never discuss any of the stuff (they already knew) it was news to most readers. And in any sense, Manning has thrown his life away for nothing.

I can only hope his judges realize there was nothing in the cache which would compromise anyone's safety and dismiss the case.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:15 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. what was news to most readers? seriously what was new? other the names of informants
which indeed would put them in danger
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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. Seriously, I think it was news to most people that our tax dollars are going to the Taliban
through Pakistan, our "friend" Do you believe that was common knowledge? Because the electorate doesn't act like they know.
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #17
19. And that Taliban had heat-seekers. nt
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:50 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. and that is comparable to LBJ and the Gulf of Tonkin? nt
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #26
32. What a stupid comment.
You asked for something new.

I actually expected that Taliban would have heatseekers, but I've not seen it discussed anywhere, so it was new to see it admitted, or outed, or whatever you want to call it.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #32
33. that was my original question in the op
i specifically asked what was remotely similar to that.

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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Well, I produced something new, which you also asked for.
But I think your question was rhetorical anyway, nothing that anybody produces is going to move your opinion.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #36
40. from the op
The pentagon papers revealed that Johnson planned to go into Vietnam before the Gulf of Tonkin events.

Is there anything remotely similar here?


That was my specific question


your answer was that the taliban had heat seakers

i then asked if you really thought the two were comparable

then you made it clear that you hadnt even read the op before responding
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bemildred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #40
43. Like I said, your mind is made up.
I assume you are not really trying to push the idea that Afghanistan and Vietnam are similar?
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. I don't know. Did you read all 92,000 documents? n/t
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. Work? Pshaw, that's what *other* people are for!
;)
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. That even Democratic Administrations will claim benign leaks endanger soldiers in the field
Thats a golden talking point to hide discussion of any failing war behind
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ChairmanAgnostic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
5. where to start?
Between "embeds" and a propaganda war being conducted by the DOD against America since the invasion of Afghanistan, there has been almost no coverage of what is really happening in that country. We are learning of war crimes, incursions into Pakistan, we have confirmation that Pakistan intel is helping the Taliban, we learn of real numbers of deaths and injured.

For the first time since we invaded, this war and occupation are making the headlines and front pages. All of this is good and important.

May I ask something without being insulting? Are you a troll? Do the occupations of two middle east countries, whose people do not want us there, ever bother you? Are you ever pissed at our MSM for ignoring these wars?
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
6. edit: see post 13
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 02:26 PM by AlabamaLibrul
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Enrique Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:16 PM
Response to Original message
7. I get all I need to know from Pentagon briefings
:patriot:
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Donnachaidh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
8. try reading the material. n/t
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #8
14. so you have nothing
that is your answer?

read 90 thousand documents

since your answer implies you have

give me just one thing
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
9. OK so far 5 responses and nobody can name a damn thing. nt
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Oregone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Was that a canned reply to your own thread?
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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. I asked a question it doesn't bother to answer. n/t
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 02:31 PM by Subdivisions
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Fine, I'll feed you one.
I notice most of the reports on "demonstrations", in fact, the vast majority of them, describe peaceful protests or funeral processions which are labeled "0 INJ/DAM" as opposed to the ubiquitous file footage of crazed brown people running through the streets, burning shit and firing guns into the air screaming "ALLAHU AKBAR!" in shrill tones.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:20 PM
Response to Reply #13
15. link? nt
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:21 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. wardiary.wikileaks.org. Where else?
Go to "Browse by Category", and click demonstrations. You know, read through them.
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old mark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:17 PM
Response to Original message
10. Only that everything most of us already suspected and believed is absolutely
correct.

It's something positive, and it's always great to see a real act of defiance like this...it is really necessary from time to time.


mark
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
18. Nothing to see here, just move along.
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sabrina 1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:26 PM
Response to Original message
20. So far, and I have only read a very tiny fraction of what they reveal
we have verification of what many Afghan civilians have been screaming about, that NATO forces have been killing thousands of innocent civilians.

We learned, or it was verified, that Pakistan was never an ally (Clinton found that out when they refused to cooperate with him in sending in special forces to get Osama Bin Laden).

As for the sudden concern for those Afghans we have used? This is the first time that this government has ever expressed any concern about the citizens of either Iraq or Afghanistan. We have killed and maimed and tortured approx 1.5 million people. NOW, they are claiming they care about those people.

Has everyone forgotten the general attitude towards those people when asked about the deaths of civilians, how many we were killing?

'We Don't Do Body Counts'! 'Treat The Iraqis Like Dogs'! etc. etc. And whenver the Karzai government complained about civilian deaths, the drone attacks, the bombings, or the people went out and demonstrated in the tens of thousands against the killings, they were ignored, and the U.S. claimed they were exaggerating. For those trying to tell the truth, these documents are a vindication and hopefully a warning that lies will be uncovered, sooner or later.

This is just an excuse to trash the exposure of the the lies we have been told.

And if it ends these travesties, far more lives will be saved than if they did not have to worry about lying to them American people.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
21. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
22. Maybe, this got released because the brass wanted it? You know, like the Abu Ghraib photos?
For all we know, Wikileaks has been nothing more than an electronic version of the "Litfass Columns", poles that the Prussian Secret Police put up in Berlin during the reign of Bismarck to sniff out political dissidents. When revolutionaries, socialists and anarchists posted their forbidden writings, plainclothes detectives followed them. Also GOOGLE "The Trust" for the Soviet version.

Nothing really changes.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. While some kid might have pissed his life away temporarily
to get these papers to Wikileaks, there is no "smoking gun" that puts anyone else in danger. What these papers did is confirm what a lot of us strongly suspected and powerful men didn't want to admit.

This stuff is deeply embarrassing to those powerful men, but they will likely recover quickly as they did when Ellsberg released the Pentagon Papers.

Don't forget that the Afghans already know this stuff. They're living it every day. It's just high time Americans found this stuff out and for that, whoever leaked this stuff deserves our gratitude.

The powerful men who are being embarrassed will, of course, try to get him locked up.

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Subdivisions Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:42 PM
Response to Original message
24. Oh, aren't you cute. Cute like a rabbit scurrying away. n/t
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:53 PM
Response to Reply #24
27. im going to cry nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:43 PM
Response to Original message
25. We learned that kids are "pissing their lives away" in a lost war fought for PR.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. and that is the big revelation? again, what is new? nothing nt
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Selectively ignoring posts. (eom)
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. We also learned that the administration fears embarrassment and goes after whistle blowers.
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 03:09 PM by Tierra_y_Libertad
And, that instead of refuting or defending what wikileaks released, they fall back on the same non-argument that LBJ and Nixon did in that other lost war. "It endangers the troops."
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rug Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
29. "our side"? Does your side support illegal invasions, torture and propaganda?
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. the united states of america is my side yours? nt
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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
37. Jah wants his fucking name back, dude
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 03:14 PM by BakedAtAMileHigh
I can feel my IQ drop every time I read another of your posts.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. sorry i feel bad about that since there probably wasnt much of one to start with nt
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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #45
46. Much of what? Your ability to communicate in an intelligible fashion?
Right now I'm not convinced you are capable of crafting a complete sentence.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #46
49. short term memory problems?
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 03:26 PM by jah the baptist
your claim that your iq is dropping

and indeed it appears to be

eddited to say:

THAT was fucking funny!
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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #49
50. Riiiiight
Okeydokey, you Brave Internet Warrior. You carry on! :eyes:
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. My side is the poor people of the world.
I don't get all caught up in that nationalistic bullshit, but you carry on.
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BakedAtAMileHigh Donating Member (900 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:15 PM
Response to Reply #38
39. wow, you went a little Eugene Debs there for a minute!
Cool.
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #39
48. That's gotta be one of the best-
coolest, neatest, grandest things anyone has ever said to me.

He is a real hero of mine.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. i thought we were talking about afghanistan
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 03:20 PM by jah the baptist
edited to say

im sure the poor of the world appreciate the fine work you are doing
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:25 PM
Response to Reply #42
51. It's not good to be funny,
when you're not trying to be funny. Learn it.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. again, as a poor person and on behalf of we wretched of the earth
keep up the good work

your missives make our lives better daily
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. Again, that funny thing.
You're just not funny. That's okay, I've never met a funny conservative, even the ones that think they are funny. Dennis Miller for example.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. what do conservatives have to do with this? nt
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #64
65. Just an example of people who are not funny.
Why your not funny could just be because you're too mean and snarky to develop a sense of humor, but who knows.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #65
66. well we are in agreement about conservatives
and as far as me being funny

maybe my humor is over your head

anything is possible
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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #66
69. Anything is possible.
It's possible we could find common ground and become friends, but it's highly unlikely.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #69
70. olive branch accepted
i apologize for being a dick

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asdjrocky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Thank you.
I don't like to do nothing but snark with people.

You have a good day.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #71
73. :-) eom
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #38
44. "My country is the world, and my religion is to do good." Thomas Paine
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #30
41. "Love it or leave it"? "My country right or wrong"?
"Patriotism is the most foolish of passions and the passion of fools." Thanks for proving Schopenhauer right.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #41
47. nice straw man nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:29 PM
Response to Reply #47
53. Nice sidestep to a response to your post.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #53
55. in the fight between the US and the Taliban my side is the US
how does that equate to

love it or leave it?
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Are you suggesting....
That if you are not for this war you are on the side of the Taliban?
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #58
59. another straw man nt
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AlabamaLibrul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #59
60. another dodge to a yes or no question. (eom)
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #60
62. of course not
one could have no side at all, obviously

i do
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Binka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #47
56. Oh GO Away. AGAIN! Please NOBODY Cares What You Think. n/t
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:36 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. now you tell me. nt
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #41
52.  deleted wrong place
Edited on Wed Jul-28-10 03:30 PM by Tierra_y_Libertad
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
61. That Obama is willing to use the troops for political cover?
:shrug:
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OJones Donating Member (48 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
67. 7/28/10 update to Wikileaks.org:
Whistleblowers--

We now only accept submissions containing information on events that are reasonably similar to those surrounding the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Please send an outline of your documents to Jah the Baptist (at democraticunderground.com) before contacting Wikileaks. It is important to see if he or she, acting as arbiter on behalf of Wikileaks, finds your documents suitably comparable to the Tonkin incident before the process can continue.

If necessary, please bring Jah the Baptist out of "ignore status" in order to correspond.
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 04:11 PM
Response to Original message
68. the pentagon papers revealed little that was new
but confirmed much of what had long been suspected, like for example the gulf of tonkin bullshit.
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jah the baptist Donating Member (329 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-28-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
72. OK this has gotten out of hand
I apologize to anyone I have been a jerk to here on this thread.

I still stand by my original point that I havent seen anything revealed so far that rises to the level of the Pentagon papers and that if the guy revealed names of people working clandestinely for us, I condemn that.

that doesnt mean it isnt there.

i just havent seen it.

and again, i apologize to any and all i have personally offended

especially the pot smoking guy
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