I need to know if I'm waaaay off base....

[Bigmack]

I have posted the following twice on DU, and on three different newspaper boards.

Nobody ever commented on it. Are my posts invisible? Do people think I'm being silly?

I'm not trying to be silly or sarcastic... I'm being straightforward. What if....?

"I've always wondered ... What if we bombed the Afghans with our stuff that the world loves.... Coca-cola, western clothes, medicine, food, beer, Pampers... All the good stuff. How about bombing them with DVD machines with carefully chosen DVDs. Not propaganda, just Hollywood films that show how good Americans are and how much freedom we have, and how our system has girls in bikinis, not burkas. The Taliban are mean and dull and boring and not nearly as Cool as our Hollywood image. The young men could be watching films of hot blonde girls running on the beach and not so damned concerned about becoming human bombs. Think of a whole pallet- load of food coming down on a parachute in some remote town. Each small sack of food has a picture of an American -with a flag - shaking hands with an Afghan.
Cheaper than bombs by a helluva lot. My grandmother use to say..."You can catch more flies with honey than with vinegar."
You want to defeat Islam? Show 'em what we've got. Radical Islam will lose with the man on the (Moslem) street more often than if we bomb the snot out of those streets.
Or don't you think we've got that much to be proud of?

[Dennis Donovan]

1. *crickets*

:evilgrin:

[babylonsister]

2. Off base imo.

One reason we were supposedly attacked on 9/11 is because of our evil lifestyles. I don't think a lot of Afghanis want to share that, plus they have their own culture; I wouldn't think they'd want us to interfere.

[Bigmack]

35. Oh.. I'm not entirely benign with this...

I'm talking about inoculating them with the same weird shit we have... the materialism, the shallowness...

Lots of people in the US are unwilling to admit they watch "Dancing with the Stars" or "American Idol"... but they do.

I'll bet the Afghans would rail in public about the decadent West, meanwhile trying on those jeans and watching "Baywatch" repeats.

The guys who attacked us represent a tiny, tiny minority within Islam. I'm aiming at Joe Afghan. The Taliban can't hold if the entire country is against them and their repression... there's only about 20,000 of them.

We're interfering now... we're interfering them to death.

You'd have a good argument if you berated me for being so cruel as to subject them to parts of our culture. Shit... imagine Glen Beck in Pashto broadcast into their homes.

[ZombieHorde]

3. What is with all of the blank OPs on DU lately?

Just kidding. Your idea is better than what we have been doing. I would support giving your idea a try.

[rrneck]

4. Well,

offhand I'd say that we'd be bombing them with our decadent western culture. A culture which they generally hate and typically pisses them off.

[Bigmack]

32. Lots of people hate our culture... and adopt it. nt

[rrneck]

33. Our culture

has proven to be the best way to wreck the planet. I don't think we need to spread the joy.

[Motown_Johnny]

5. how do you expect to turn a profit doing that?

[depakid]

17. +1

[marylanddem]

6. Here's my comment:

so you think films with "hot blondes" and "coca-cola" and pampers are the best proof of what America stands for that we have to give? I think we just need to get our asses the hell out of there.

[DURHAM D]

10. Poster obviously believes that only -

straight men and lesbians live in middle east.

[Bigmack]

36. C'mon.. a little sarcasm...

remember, we just want to get the young men off the jihad and onto something that doesn't blow up!

Besides... you introduce cheap Pampers into a society without much water, and you might have a real winner with moms.

[FSogol]

7. George McGovern (Yes that one) is currently part of an organization

that believes that wars, terrorism, etc could be ended if every child in the world got a hot meal everyday. I think it was called "Food for Peace." Check them out.

[NC_Nurse]

8. I think one cannot assume that every culture will find ours attractive. Who

knows? Maybe some would, but others might be offended or just not like it for whatever reason. Might be seen as disrespectful.

If they choose to seek out Western culture, that's fine, but it's different to have it thrust upon them.

[annabanana]

9. I've wondered this myself...

(I'm not especially enamoured of the effluvia of our over-consuming lifestyle, but I appreciate it's seductiveness.) Advertising and propaganda is our forte. If the noise machines can convince Americans of so much crap so consistently, then why SHOULDN'T the Madison Avenue guns be focused on the hotspots...

I'm not sure I'd be pleased with the results, but there'd be fewer corpses, at least in the short run.

[EmilyKent]

11. You're assuming they want that stuff.

Thomas Barfield’s Afghanistan: A Cultural and Political History

Few peoples in the world, particularly the Islamic world, have maintained such a strong and unproblematic sense of themselves, their culture, and their superiority as Afghans…. Although the great powers might have been militarily, technologically, and economically superior, because they were nonbelievers, or infidels, their values and way of life were naturally suspect. Afghanistan’s Muslim neighbours, however, fared only slightly better in (Sunni) Afghan eyes. The Uzbeks must have been asleep to allow the Russians to occupy central Asia for more than a century; Pakistan is a suspect land of recent Muslim converts from Hunduism (Pashtuns and Baluch excepted) that never should have become a nation; and Iran is a nest of Shiite heretics who speak Persian with a ludicrous accent.


They see it as a form of cultural imperialism, a decadent western lifestyle they don't want.

Generally speaking, people don't give up their culture for consumer goods.

[Oregone]

12. G-strings and ipods...thatll win the Taliban over

[bemildred]

13. Please see post #5.

You don't understand anything about modern US militarism unless you understand that it is about corporate profit.

[valerief]

14. I don't think you understand why we have wars, declared or not.

It's so that Congress can raid the Treasury for their friends.

[JuniperLea]

15. Send them all copies of Idiocracy...

The world just might leave us alone... out of pity.

[valerief]

16. One of my favorite documentaries.

Er films.

[JuniperLea]

20. *snort*

Hahahaha! Mine too!

:toast:

It's scary how life is imitating art... I need to watch that again just to see how closely we've crept since my last viewing.

[Curmudgeoness]

18. Anything is better than this war, antagonising them. And...

this has worked in a lot of other places. Even worked in the USSR, China, India, etc. Look at all the countries that have Coca Cola and McDonalds now. And how many places want jeans and our music. I think it all starts with creating a class of people who are able to afford these things though.

[EmilyKent]

21. You probably eat Chinese food.

Or other kinds of food, and maybe have things from those cultures in your home.

Does that mean you want to be like them?

[Curmudgeoness]

23. What it does mean is that I don't hate those cultures. nt

[pipi_k]

19. OK, let's say you live in some real poor conditions and...

someone drops some photos and DVDs of that old Robin Leach show, "Lifestyles of the Rich and Famous" on your doorstep with the intent of showing you how "good" the filthy rich are, how much "freedom" they have, how much fun their lives are, etc., etc.


I don't know about you, but I'd be thinking whoever did that must be a colossal asshole for rubbing their lifestyle (that I can only dream of) in my face, whatever that person's intent really was.

[Bigmack]

37. I said DVDs that show how nice we are...

and how much freedom we have. I'm not talking adjusting a watch with a sledge hammer.

Diplomacy....oh, wait... I forgot we don't have shit in that department. Easier to bomb them.

[izquierdista]

22. What if....

The US got bombarded with mariachi music, taco stands with futbol on the TV, Corona beer, and all the good stuff you can find at any Mexican tienda? You'd probably have a bunch of rednecks up in arms trying to get the police to check everyone's papers and deport deport anyone darker than a Dos Equis.

[Bigmack]

40. We have been bombarded with those things...

I was brought up in a Midwest city on meat and potatoes.

Now I love me some tacos and burritos. And I haven't checked anybody's green card yet.

[caledesi]

24. Never studied Cultural Anth. 101 I see. USA! USA! USA! USA! nt

[Bigmack]

38. Actually, taught it....

so save the smartassitude. I can direct you to studies of how American advertisers moved huge blocks of people from a very distinct culture over to Western culture in a few years with a very few products.

But I appreciate your thoughtful input.

[AvaMae]

25. Am I way off base.......................

No - it makes good sense - cheaper and less dangerous than the war and death approach.

But make no mistake... I would bring every soldier home yesterday if I could...

But we cannot have Pakistan's Nukes, or Iraq's oil in the hands of terrorists. Iraq may be able to
stand alone and protect themselves...

Not sure about Pakistan... and think there's double dealing within in any event.

[Bigmack]

41. "we cannot have Pakistan's Nukes, or Iraq's oil in the hands of terrorists."..

That is going to happen, and our military isn't going to be able to stop it.

Iraq's oil isn't in our hands... what makes you think we can control Iran's?

My point is that the military option is not working, so we better think of something else.

[The_Commonist]

26. We used to kinda sorta do things like that.

See the Marshall Plan and certain aspects of the Cold War.
Of course, there's more profit to be made in manufacturing things that are meant to be blown up.
It's also more fun for the psychopaths to steal stuff than to work at building relationships.

Nice idea, but I think we are too far gone to try this...

[Greyhound]

28. GMTTA.

:rofl:

[The_Commonist]

30. I don't know what that means...

...but I like what you said in #27.


on edit: Great Minds Think Alike? With an extra T, which threw me off? Or maybe something else?

[Greyhound]

31. OK so maybe one of them is not so great. My bad.

:blush:

[Greyhound]

27. Well. you've got a really, really big lead there. But you're also not completely wrong.

Rather than just dropping tons of crap that will quickly be gone, will offend almost everyone, and make wonderful facades for booby-traps, how about an endless flotilla of cargo planes loaded with equipment and supplies that hit the ground and start building outward? We've already got the security forces in place, and instead of leaving behind death and destruction, we leave behind roads, water supplies, schools, hospitals, and housing.

I'm pretty sure that the Afghanis would prefer to live in relative safety and comfort and would appreciate the opportunity. Of course, in order for this to happen most of the money would have end up in Afghani hands and we would have to impose an interim government and constitution like the Marshall Plan.

There would be a lot of local resistance, but it would help to get the people on our side, and the cancer would spread from there as more and more people see their friends and relatives living so much better.

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

29. Great idea

but there's no money in it. That's why we have these wars. To either generate business for the suppliers of war stuff or to protect the resources of the business using it.............. :shrug:
Your idea makes too much sense.

[KakistocracyHater]

34. I said essentially the same thing for the 1st year Obama was in office

& recently mentioned it again. It IS the best approach, as is piping the country, electrifying it, etc. Particularly using mining equipment to put a highway in those "impassable Afghan mountains", & run trains there too..........but whatever

[lonestarnot]

39. The sky can't rain "things" to change a culture.

[Bigmack]

42. Tell that to American advertisers... nt

[lonestarnot]

49. I try to avoid them whenever possible.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. What do you think toppled the Soviet Union? Besides a war in Afghanistan, that is.

Desire for things. Don't underestimate it.

[lonestarnot]

48. Hmmmf. Ever try to sell a Taliban on things?

:evilgrin: I wish I could have seen it.

[walldude]

43. Wow this went from absurd to surreal in about 10 seconds flat.. Hehe

You do realize that their leaders are no different than ours right? You think they aren't drinking coke and downloading porn? Please....

In a round about way your idea is sound. The way you present it however you sound like Ann Coulter who wants to "kill all their leaders and turn them into Christians". If we were bringing things like food and medicine instead of guns and bombs they would probably be less likely to think we are the Great Satan.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

44. Well, investing 30,000 more troops, $33bn, in a lost war obviously isn't working.

Maybe Pampers and Pepsi might get the "light at the end of tunnel" in sight again.

[Warren DeMontague]

45. I'd say porn, kind bud and big screen tvs, but the heavens-to-betsy doily brigade would freak out.

[cherokeeprogressive]

47. Forget the culture, the blondes, the bikinis, and the Cokes.

Food. Fly food in C-5's and C-17's in criss-cross patterns across their country and drop as much of it under parachutes as we can possibly get our hands on. Not American food, but food that matches their staple diet.

Then fly more. When they've eaten that? Fly some more. When they're sated, fly in farm equipment, fertilizers, seeds, and goats, or whatever their favorite protein is.

What an insult to try and foist American culture on them though.