How to be pragmatic and progressive at the same time (it only takes two steps).

[LoZoccolo]

1. Make more progressives. This takes a lot of work and you generally can't do it online. I can't tell you how to do this in a simple step-by-step form, but it really is the only way to do things in a democracy. Persuasion is a complex art that you must master for yourselves, but I will tell you this: if you think that it's impossible, you must be willing to critique your approach to open up the possibility of better results.
2. Now that there are more progressives, you may be able to elect a primary candidate that is progressive. If there are not enough progressives for that candidate to win both the primary and the general election, go back to step one. It really is the only way.

[Oregone]

1. "you may be able to elect a primary candidate that is progressive"

So you are suggesting primarying Barack Obama?

[LoZoccolo]

2. What do you think that I will say, and why? n/t

[Ross K]

12. What are you, a shrink now?

Tell me, LoZoccolo, what color do you THINK the bear is?

[HughMoran]

3. Yes, since Obama is the only candidate there was and ever will be n/t

[bobbolink]

4. You are exactly right about the education part and great leaders of the past have done just that.

But that isn't what people want to do these days.

Protests just don't work anymore, but people aren't willing to go back to other tried and true methods, like Teach-Ins, etc.

I am working on PowerPoint programs on poverty, and another community project to bring together an integrated group of both poor and affluent people, and beginning with listening skills, so people can actually learn to hear each other.

But, again, this doesn't seem to be what others want to do.

:shrug:

[LoZoccolo]

5. People might not be willing, but that's why I started this thread.

I wanted to lay out a course of positive, rather than punitive, action for people.

[bobbolink]

6. I feel very good about what I am doing, and that is why I am fed up with all the attacks.

It would be very nice if there were a lot of other people who would join me in the effort, but given that there are not, its not going to stop me from working on the projects I am working on.

It also doesn't mean that I have to ignore what I need and toe somebody else's line, and swallow attacks, like a beaten, abused woman.

I repeat... I feel very good about what I am doing, and will continue doing it.

[Radical Activist]

7. Too many get stuck on arrogance.

When a campaign fails some people react by complaining about the stupidity of the public and become cynical. University Marxists are the best at assuring themselves they know what's better for the masses than the masses do.

It's more productive to take another look at your approach and ask why you failed. Blaming the public for not being smart enough to see things your way is the wrong answer to that question.

[Fumesucker]

8. Given the number of your posts that get rapidly unrecced into oblivion

I'd say that your powers of persuasion aren't all that strong, no wonder you can't tell us how to persuade others, you can't do it yourself.

I spent a lot of time before the 2008 election talking up Democrats in my very red state and caught a great deal of grief for being so outspoken. Now I have people I talked to coming to me and telling me what an idiot I was for expecting great things from the Dems, I'm not putting myself in that position again.

To quote Jackson Browne, I'm going to be a happy idiot and struggle for the legal tender.

[Radical Activist]

9. The Republican strategy worked on you.

Making people adopt your attitude and give up is exactly what Republicans are trying to accomplish by blocking or watering down everything that Obama proposes. It must be working.

[Fumesucker]

10. No, the Democratic fecklessness worked on me..

One example, Obama gave away the public option in a back room deal before negotiations on the health insurance bill ever even began.

[BzaDem]

11. More conspiracy theory bulshit. n/t

[Fumesucker]

13. As reported in the uber liberal NY Times..

If you think conspiracies don't happen every day you're too naive to live.

ETA: You might want to ask Shirley Sherrod about the fecklessness of Democratic politicians, I imagine she'd give you an earful right now.

[Radical Activist]

14. The same NYT that sold the Iraq War for Bush?

The only named source I've ever seen for that story is a pharmaceutical industry lobbyist, and even he claims the deal didn't exclude the possibility of a public option. You trust pharma lobbyists? You don't think they had an agenda for spreading that story, do you?

Isn't that the same Tom Tomorrow cartoon that claimed Obama didn't use the bully pulpit, even though he was on TV constantly and gave two major speeches to Congress? It should tell you something that Tom feels the need to exaggerate and trust second hand stories about pharma lobbyists to make Obama look bad.

[Fumesucker]

16. Do you see a public option?

I don't..

Obama campaigned on the need for a public option and against mandated private insurance.

What did we get? No public option and mandated private insurance.

So many people treat Obama like many Christians treat God, anything good Obama did it, anything bad it's nothing to do with Obama.

[Radical Activist]

17. Way to be simple-minded.

It's not like the world is complex and there are other people in elected office besides Obama.

[Fumesucker]

25. Yes, anyone who disagrees with you is simple minded..

:eyes:

If you can't argue with reality then insult those who disagree with you.

I called the health insurance bill right here on DU months before it was finalized, no public option and a private mandate, it was easy. If you like I can look up some of my old posts on the subject for you.

[Radical Activist]

26. I'm not surprised.

You made a cynical assessment of what you thought would happen so you're eager to believe the most cynical stories about why it happened. You're looking for anything that reaffirms your worldview.

[Forkboy]

28. "You're looking for anything that reaffirms your worldview."

Everyone should have a mirror handy when that line gets spoken, as we all do.

Guess what? Even you.

[Forkboy]

29. It's like the Steve Martin bit How To Be A Millionaire.

"First, get a million dollars."

[mmonk]

15. If pragmatism is always not being too liberal or too progressive

without consideration of merit from a conservative point of view, then at some point it loses it's utility and becomes marginal. There no longer is a pendulum. Nothing swings back towards a middle.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

18. You can't be progressive without being pragmatic.

You can't be progressive without progress.

[rucky]

19. I rec'd this.

We can't talk to non-political types the same way we talk here. We can make the case for progressivism, factually, but our delivery could use a lot of work.

[DirkGently]

20. Pragmatic does not equal "political expediency"

Doing things the way conservatives failed at doing them, because conservatives will "let" you do it that way, gains nothing. Not politically, not "pragmatically," not ideologically. It's just easier than doing it the right way.

[LoZoccolo]

21. Did you read my post?

Honestly?

[DirkGently]

22. Did you understand I was agreeing with you?

[LoZoccolo]

23. I'm sorry; I did not sleep last night. n/t

[DirkGently]

24. Know the feeling 8)

[Forkboy]

27. Get back to us when you master #1.

So far your record here isn't so hot on that.

[EstimatedProphet]

30. Well, that's easy.

I'm a multimillionaire too, thanks to listening to Steve Martin.