The Deficit Commission, and How It Is Seen by Different People...

[MineralMan]

President Obama's Deficit Commission, properly named the National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform, is getting a lot of press these days, as they meet behind closed doors. The right claims that it's packed with "Liberals," who will surely recommend higher taxes as the solution to our deficit. On the other end of the political spectrum, this Commission is called the "Catfood Commission," and they decry the inclusion of a couple of people who are suspect, according to them. The "Left" is sure that the commission is going to report that the only solution is to cut Social Security and Medicare by raising the retirement age.

Quite a difference in viewpoints, I think.

The bottom line is that the report and recommendations of this Commission have no authority whatsoever. Congress can scoff it it and toss it in the circular file, if they want to. We don't know what the report will say. The right thinks it's going to recommend higher taxes for everyone. The left thinks it's going to send our old people into abject poverty. We should see it in December. Then we'll know. Sometime next year, we'll discover what Congress does with it, and we'll have lots of input into that decision.

I propose that we wait and see what the report says, and then what the Congress wants to do with it. We'll certainly be able to make our opinion know when there's something to have an opinion about. There are always commissions. They all make reports. Many, if not most, of those go into the dustbin of history.

What will this report say? I don't know. What will Congress do with it? I don't know.

I know this, however: We have an election in November. Much will be determined by that election. I'm planning to work very hard to get Democrats elected to the House in November. I'm hoping everyone else will be doing that, too. It's hard to tell, though, by reading some threads on DU. It's really up to us, isn't it?

[county worker]

1. Think of this. You are sick. You have AIDs. Your benefactors get a group if doctors together and

they decide they need to protect you from cancer. They give you kemo. Your screwed.

Look at it another way. You are unemployed. You lost your house. The powers to be decide you will be better off if the government doesn't do anything for you but reduce the nation debt. The method is to take away even more the the things you have counted on for your future.

But you, don't know if what I said is true so you will wait until your screwed to see if you screwed!

[MineralMan]

3. Again...hypotheticals.

I know the position of the candidates I support on this matter. They are all completely opposed to decreasing the deficit on the backs of Social Security recipients now and in the future. I know this, because I have talked to them. That's one of the advantages of working on campaigns. You get to talk to people.

Hypotheticals are interesting. They give you fodder to take to your elected officials and those running for office and see what they have to say about your hypothetical questions. Beyond that, there is no report yet, so it's all hypothetical.

This commission's report will not be law. It will be a report. What makes you believe it will become law? I'm in no way convinced of that, regardless of what recommendations will be in it. It seems as likely to me that the recommendations will be to remove the cap from SS taxation or to raise it substantially. Then, the right will call it something like the "Tax and Spend Commission."

At this point, there is no report. There are no recommendations. There is nothing but hypothetical questions. Ask them of the candidates in your district. Find out what they think. Vote.

[county worker]

11. Man I can't see why you don't get it.

If there was a 50/50 chance congress would cut social security and medicare you'd be willing to take that risk even though you can do nothing about it.

Yes this is hypothetical but a real possibility. The could commission could recommend in Dec to congress that entitlements be cut. All the repubs will vote for it. And they will have more seats. The blue dogs will go for it. Your reps will be out numbered. And any congress person who didn't win reelection has nothing to lose by voting for it. And most economists are saying that we need more stimulus not less at this time.

I am not willing to accept that risk.

Another way to look at it is that your car has a 50/50 chance of crashing because of bad tires but you are willing to take that risk and keep driving.

[MineralMan]

15. What makes you think I'm not concerned. I just told you that

I have discussed this with my congress member and with both senators, by mail. All have assured me that they are vehemently opposed to such a thing.

Let me ask you this: What is it that you're planning to do to stop this from happening? You claim that you are treating it seriously, but haven't said how you're going to prevent it from happening. On the other hand, I have said exactly what I plan to do. My congress member's seat is secure, and she will be reelected. So, I'm working over in MN CD6 to defeat Michele Bachmann and replace her with a Democrat who also says she will oppose any cuts to Social Security.

What will you do? What is your plan? You say you're not willing to accept the risk of a decision to issue a report recommending Social Security cuts. OK. What's your plan to stop it, and why isn't my plan a good one.

If you have another plan, I'd sure like to hear it.

[county worker]

19. The plan is to join in the great many people who are working to disband the commission.

It's like a train wreck is bound to happen. Maybe not, Do we get in the engine and stop the train or wait and see what happens?


http://uspoverty.change.org/petitions/view/tell_congress_stop_the_catfood_commission

http://oneutah.org/2010/07/23/how-can-we-stop-the-catfood-commission/

http://unsilentgeneration.com/2010/07/12/petition-to-stop-the-entitlement-cutting-catfood-commission/

[MineralMan]

20. OK. Never mind. Your petitions have even less force than

the Commission has. I'll be out working on campaigns. You do whatever you want.

[county worker]

24. I'm 64. I will get $1,900 a month from Social Security in less than two years. I am very healthy

and look and feel 10 to 15 years younger. I will continue to work until I am 70. I will pay income tax on 85% on the social security but I make $100,000K now and probably more in the future. I'll also have medicare and my paid for health insurance. My wife is 17 years younger than me. She will continue to work when I do retire. I will be getting a pension every month when I turn 70.

I'm not doing this for me. I'm doing it for those who come after me. There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that you can fill congress with enough people to stop a vote to cut social security if that is what the commissions recommendation's are. Good luck.

[Curmudgeoness]

2. Yes, we do have to work to get Dems elected, and this will

be a big step to stopping all the worry about what Congress would do with any "recommendations" made. Thanks for the info on this subject---just a few leads and I was aware of what the threads were all about.

[MineralMan]

4. Thanks for recognizing the one thing we can do to protect

ourselves. That is the power we have. We must use it, or we are powerless. We won't win every election, because we have two opposing parties, but we can work to win as many as possible. Or, we can sit on our hands and let others decide for us.

Frankly, my choice is to campaign hard for candidates who would never cut Social Security. I can influence other to vote and encourage them to get to the polls. Doom and gloom is not my thing. Activism is.

[county worker]

14. Doom and gloom is not my thing

Dude, the commission is already in action! You have no control over it's outcome! You can't be an activist against it by voting for someone who won't accept it's findings. You have to call your representative and stop the commission from acting!

[MineralMan]

18. The only act the commission can take is to issue a report

with recommendations. Such reports are tossed frequently. A commission report has no authority to do anything. It is just a report containing recommendations. Nothing can happen unless Congress enacts those recommendations. We don't even know what those recommendations will be. For pete's sake! There is something we can be doing...long before this report ever sees the light of day, and I've said what that thing is.

This is a commission of the Executive Department. Congress can't stop it. Reality. It exists. It is what we have to work with.

The commission cannot make law. It can only make recommendations.

[county worker]

22. Not buying it

[MineralMan]

23. OK. Have you looked at the number of signatures on those

petitions you linked?

[county worker]

27. A journey of a thousand miles begins with one step

[laughingliberal]

13. I do believe Pelosi and Reid have agreed to a vote during the lame duck session.

The group we have now will be the one voting on this. I would like to see them put on the record regarding their positions on it.

[Curmudgeoness]

33. I agree that this (or anything) should not be voted on in lame duck sessions.

This takes all the power away from us. So, what do you suggest? I have tried to communicate with both of these politicians, but since I do not live in their districts, I am politely told that they do not have time to answer people from all over the country. Even if they are affecting people from all over the country. Oh well.

[laughingliberal]

34. The only suggestion I have is to start quizzing all who are up for election on their position.

Reid is my Senator so I am able to communicate with him. He is running a huge ad buy against his opponent for saying she wants to phase out SS and Medicare. I have let him know I expect him to stand against cuts to benefits or raising the retirement age.

I am hoping some of the progressive groups will start grilling some of them on it but, so far, I see no indication of that happening.

[Curmudgeoness]

35. Everyone up for election is afraid to be "too liberal". They do not want

to be grilled on hot topics. And I am afraid that the progressive groups are staying away from it for fear of causing a lose in the elections to Reps. Circular logic.

[NJmaverick]

5. You make a very reasonable proposal

as well as give an excellent factual summary of the situation to date.

[MineralMan]

6. Thanks. I've been studying the issue, and when I see how

differently the Left and Right see this commission, I realize that the conclusions reached in the report are far from predictable. There are bigger fish to fry in 2010 than doom-saying about a commission report we don't even know the results of.

November is looming fast. It's coming. Campaigns are on-going. It's time to get to work.

[NJmaverick]

8. Yes it is time to get to work. There is a large and important task ahead of us

[MineralMan]

10. Sometimes, it seems that there are those who are trying to

discourage us from trying to get Democrats elected to the legislatures, both state and federal. I find that puzzling, to say the least. It almost seems like some want to see the government be run by Republicans. That just seems really, really odd to me.

[Spheric]

7. Meow. /nt

[MineralMan]

9. Well, that was cryptic, wasn't it?

Did you have something to contribute to the discussion?

[Spheric]

28. The fact that the president would even convene a deficit commission...

and staff it with anti-domestic spending hawks with a mandate to find ways to cut spending at this particular time is "fucking retarded." It is a demonstration of his inability to apply history or proven economic principles to the current problem. The best way not to screw up this economy anymore and to not continue to destroy the lives and economic future of the middle class and poor is to never have convened this commission in the first place.

Give me one example of where any specific domestic spending cut would help to improve this economy. Just one. I dare you. Now, think of all the ones that could be potentially devastating. There is no rational point in forming this commission at this time and many, many reasons not to. As James K Galbraith pointed out succinctly in his statement to the commission, "The Best Place in History (for this Commission) Would be No Place At All."

http://ourfuture.org/report/2010062630/statement-commission-deficit-reduction

In this particular case, the president is either being stupid, bought, or evil. Or he may just be way too willing to take the most insidious advice imaginable. For Christ's sake, he indicated himself that the stimulus package was too small. And then he backs that up with this?

Whatever the reason was for empaneling this commission, it seems like "Hooverville, here we come" is the only rational outcome if it is to serve any purpose at all.

How's that?

[Beetwasher]

12. No, It's Much More Fun To Imagine It's Going To Be CRAPTACULAR And To Pre-Emptively BASH Obama

as a corporate whore over his certain future implementation of their edict to force feed everyone cat food.

[MineralMan]

17. So it seems, to my complete disgust.

When are these folks going to suggest a plan of action to prevent such a thing from happening? I've said what my plan is. Now, it's their turn. What plan do the "progressives" have to prevent any such thing from happening. Post endlessly about how horrible it will be? I don't see that as a plan.

Go work for the election of a Democratic candidate, folks. Walk a precinct. Get people out to the polls in November. That's a plan. Doom-saying is not a plan.

[dtexdem]

16. It IS well named -- it is truly a deficit of a commission.

And we DO need to fear that Congress will rubber stamp its recommendations.

[gratuitous]

21. The commission will report in December

Well after the dust has settled from the November election, and before the new Congress gets sworn in. You're right; there's absolutely no potential for mischief here, so let's go fishing or something.

Why are people so suspicious? Because the preliminary reports on the commission indicate that they have considered the following items: Social Security is solvent for only another 37 years, and Something Must Be Done. What must be done? So far, reports have been that the commission is considering raising the withholding for social security, or raising the age at which folks will qualify for full benefits. What have they not been reported to be considering? Cutting the defense budget, for one. Or raising the cap on earnings subject to social security withholding.

So, what might Congress do with the commission's recommendations? Well, there's a poser. If the commission recommends anything that the Republicans who want to kill social security find favorable, I suppose the Republicans will just say it's one recommendation among many, and let's have a nice, polite, rational conversation about all the proposals. I suppose monkeys might fly out of my butt, too. What I'm pretty sure will happen is that the social security death watch folks will immediately, loudly, and continuously yammer on about any recommendation that cuts benefits, raises withholdings for low-income people, or approaches Republican Nirvana of doing away with social security altogether.

And the pressure will be on that not only that Something Must Be Done, but that Something Must Be Done NOW. Sort of like the initial frenzy over TARP back in 2008. We probably avoided some of the worst impulses of that frenzy, but we have been subject to any number of half-measures that were good enough to look like we were doing something, but not nearly enough to make an actual difference. The National Commission on Fiscal Responsibility and Reform (curious how this commission wasn't needed while we were flushing a trillion dollars of borrowed money down the drain in Iraq and Afghanistan) will make its report, and the usual suspects will almost surely grab the most oppressive and onerous pieces of the report and pretend they are the be-all and end-all of fiscal responsibility.

But what do I know? I'm just a traitorous, naive, dirty fucking hippie who hates America and the troops. At least, that's what I've been told for the last 10 years during which this commission's work has become so necessary.

[NorthCarolina]

25. The groundwork is already being laid for the catfood commission recommendations

It's the Democrats who have progressives feeling queasy.

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer explicitly put the idea on the table as well in a speech last month. "We should consider a higher retirement age or one pegged to lifespan," Hoyer said.

He echoed House Majority Whip James Clyburn, who put it this way: "With minor changes to the program such as raising the salary cap and raising the retirement age by one month every year, the program could become solvent for the next 75 years."

------

In the House, though, Nancy Pelosi is the linchpin, and she's not nearly as enthusiastic as her colleagues. But, notwithstanding the enthusiasm gap, she also left the possibility of raising the retirement age on the table.

------

There's one catch, Democrats included a rider to the supplemental war spending bill that will likely force the House to vote on a forthcoming fiscal reform plan, if the Senate passes it first. That package is being put together by President Obama's deficit and debt commission, and will be ready to go after the midterms. Pelosi had already pledged to give the package a vote, so perhaps nothing has really changed. But in a way, she also tied her own hands: if the Senate passes a broad tax-and-entitlement reform package at the end of this Congress and her own caucus is willing, she'll be hard-pressed to stop the Social Security reforms.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/07/republicans-and-democrats-endorse-major-changes-to-social-security.php

------

The above, coupled with the curious "timing" of the commission report, being after the November elections but still in time to push legislation through in a lame duck Congress paints a picture of a carefully planned and calculated attack on Social Security.

[Zenlitened]

26. "...as they meet behind closed doors."

Perhaps that's part of the problem?

:shrug:

That, and the personal net worth of some of the fellas on the commission ... who've made some pretty ugly statements about Social Security and those who rely on it most.

Secrecy and aristocracy. Taken together, not a very enticing brew.

:puke:

Nor very astute, politically, if November elections are the concern.

[bvar22]

29. False Equivalency.

In the first paragraph, you present the opinion of "The Right".
You then "balance" that with an opinion from "The Left" to give the impression that they carry the same weight, and that YOU are in the sensible center.
Bullshit.

The MSM has been doing been doing that for 30 years to create and illusion of impartiality.
YOU have attempted to do the same here.

[nashville_brook]

30. damn right.

[Spheric]

37. +1 /nt

[inna]

38. Exactly.

I'll add, anyone who thinks the Commission is "neutral" is either a corporate tool (knowingly or unknowingly) or has not been paying attention.

Either way, big fail and unrec for the OP.

[Hannah Bell]

31. the president constituted a special commission by executive order to issue toothless recommendations

and appointed noted anti-entitlement boor alan simpson to head it?

really?

[librechik]

32. There are 19 members on the commission. 14 are avowed fiscal conservatives and/or deficit hawks.

Does that seem like a fair balance? Also, it doesn't seem like "a few" deficit hawks.

[Name removed]

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