I am OK with not allowing a mosque near Ground Zero

[NYC Liberal]

as long as no churches are allowed near the sites of Eric Rudolph's bombings.

Or near the sites of abortion clinic bombings.

Or near where fundie Christians murdered gay men and women because "the Bible says being gay is wrong."

Building churches near those sites is just too painful to those who lost loved ones at the hands of Christian terrorists murdered in the name of their god. How do we know what kinds of people these churches attract? How many more will be killed?

Do I even need the tag?

[Solomon]

1. LOL before I opened the thread I was going to ask you-

well, how far from the site will you allow? a thousand feet, two thousand, one mile, outside the city limits, ...

[joeybee12]

3. Yeah, the subject line set me off!

Glad I assumed wrong!

[lame54]

33. As any good subject line should...

it grabbed your attention

[Canuckistanian]

2. Yes, it stabs at the heart

Chrisitans, I urge you to refudiate.

[Timbuk3]

22. That's Shakespalin

"Refudiate".

LOL

[DevonRex]

4. And remember, distances are different in Wyoming. "Near" is about

100 miles or so.

[Maru Kitteh]

5. Well put! K & R!

[jobycom]

6. While I completely agree with that sentiment, McVeigh was an agnostic.

He claimed to believe in a god, but had given up on religion, and claimed "science is my religion."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_mcveigh#Political_and_religious_views

I actually discovered that making the same argument you just made, about churches in Oklahoma City. So, no NRA or Republican offices should be allowed near the Murrah site, but churches, I guess, are okay.

Your point still holds, just not on that specific point.

[NYC Liberal]

8. Yeah, I actually just changed it to

"near the sites of Eric Rudolph's bombings" since he was a fundy Christian whacko.

[jobycom]

10. Well done, and great post.

:thumbsup:

[laughingliberal]

7. K & R nt

[cascadiance]

9. Or near federal buildings in Oklahoma City, or near Olympic site in Atlanta...

Yep, you could go on and find more of them where Christian terrorists have abused other Americans.

Perhaps near Indian reservations too, or sites of other massacres of Native Americans too.

If they build the Mosque near Ground Zero, there should be prominent statues or placard that lists all of the innocent Muslims that were also murdered there that day, to properly allow those of their faith to honor them at their resting place, so that they don't become ghosts to go after these venomous Christians that seek to deny them their rest by keeping away those of their faith from where their spirits are. I see a Shyamalan movie to highlight such a story if these Christian zealots get their way!

[SunnySong]

20. Well in Oklahoma City it would be Agnostic churchs... perhaps no Starbucks would suffice. nt

[geardaddy]

11. It's not a mosque.

but I get your point.

[NYC Liberal]

12. Oh I know, I was just using their language.

Probably should've stuck "refudiate" in there somewhere. ;)

[geardaddy]

14. Yeah, I thought that you might be using their language.

Sorry for the misunderstanding! :D

[patrice]

13. Yeah, I want to be more like Saudi Arabia!!!

[Kweli4Real]

39. Except ...

Despite what Newt says , Saudi Arabia has both churches and synagogues.

Wow, How'd I do the italicize thing?

[BrklynLiberal]

15. or any where near where the Inquisition took place...or witch burnings...or

where concentration camps were built.

It would all be too painful for the families of those who were tortured and killed there by the very upstanding "Christians".

Also to be avoided..anywhere near any Native American Indian massacres.

[NYC Liberal]

16. Oh yes, I forgot the Native American slaughters.

Those heathen Injuns needed to be saved.

[Politicalboi]

17. The WTC was taken down by

"Christians" They call themselves Bush/Cheney.

[BrklynLiberal]

18. and that's the truth!!!!!!!!

[defendandprotect]

52. +1000%

[Deep13]

54. They were asleep at the switch. nt

[roxiejules]

19. Sincere Questions:

Is an Imam in a mosque a political and military representative of a foreign state?

Does Islam call for the overthrow of man-made laws?

[jobycom]

29. No to both.

That's the short answer. The longer answer is that the word Imam means different things to Sunni and Shi'a, and there is a difference between "Imam," and "imam."

The word "imam" just refers to the leader of a mosque, and he's sort of a prayer leader. Like a priest or preacher, he can become the de facto leader of a community, but there is no such official role or prescribed role for such. He's just a guide people can go to, he has no political role. Obviously he's not a "political or military representative of a foreign state," since there is no foreign state involved. Unlike Christianity, Islam does not have a central figure in charge of it, like a pope, or like the councils of protestant denominations. It's never had that type of centralization.

Since it has never had that type of centralization (religiously, anyway--at times there have been political leaders who controlled a large percentage of Muslims, but not in centuries), there is no one figure who decides doctrine. In Sunni Islam, "schools" have developed to interpret Islamic rules. These were lead by Imams (with a capital I) who became so influential that other Muslims considered them experts. Each of these schools (there are four main ones, IIRC) interpret the Sharia (Islamic law) differently--more liberally, more conservatively, etc--based on the Qur'an and the Hadith (traditional rules traced to the Prophet). These schools interpret each action based on four possible recommendations--allowed, required, encouraged, or forbidden. So, for instance, if a Muslim goes to an imam and says "I want to marry my non-Muslim girlfriend but my parents don't approve," the imam will consult the Qur'an and hadith and tell the plaintif whether he can or not. The plaintif then can do whatever he wants--the imam doesn't enforce these rulings, he just interprets the law. (Needless to say, in nations that follow the Sharia, there may be laws governing such things).

Anyway, that's the longer answer. No, an imam is not a political or military leader (You may be confusing that with the historical Imams of the Shi'a, who were descendants of Muhammad's family and died out long ago). No, there is no foreign power controlling all of Islam or all Muslims or most Muslims or any Muslims outside of their own countries. And no, Islam does not call for the overthrow of man-made laws any more than Christianity does. All Muslim nations have man-made laws of their own.

[roxiejules]

48. Thanks for the good answer!

[mhatrw]

21. No Christian churches on anything that once was Native American land, either,

[AnnieBW]

23. They need to name it after Tariq Amunullah

Who was an Islamic community leader who worked on the 96th floor of the WTC, and died on 9/11.

http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm

[MikeNY]

24. Hah. Well when they actually build something there that would be a start

This is the first time I've seen a 10 year construction project result in nothing but a bunch of cranes in a giant cement hole. Clearly someone is milking the bank on this one too.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Oh absolutely, you are so correct

I would like to add something here though... to the Asshats, not you... SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE.

There, I feel better.

[Ignis]

26. K&R. Well stated.

:thumbsup:

[blondeatlast]

27. Big k/r. nt

[alfredo]

28. If they can have a strip club two blocks away, they can have a Mosque.

[TexasObserver]

30. If any religion can build there, this one can, too.

The notion that Islam is inherently threatening is ignorant and shameful.

[pinboy3niner]

31. K&R for a clever post

And for the relief of coming off DefCon 5 after the subject line... :)

[meowomon]

32. Great Argument!

But what a slap in the face of liberty. Good God those people are so intolerant.

[Soylent Brice]

34. K&R

:applause:

[RagAss]

35. Religion Kills ! Enough said.

[liberation]

36. Well played... well played...

:-)

[JustAnotherGen]

37. Love the original post

Very well said and hits the nail on the head. :pals:

[Kweli4Real]

38. Well, Don't forget ...

anywhere in the forner confederacy. These states' death toll of Black folks at the hands of "good christian" folks makes the Twin Towers look like an insignificant event.

[sulphurdunn]

40. Before the Vietnam Veteran's Memorial

was built there was a considerable fuss over the grave like symbolism of a black wall below ground versus the usual white marble edifice. There was a ruckus because the architect was a Chinese American woman. The bronze of the three soldiers that guard the memorial was originally a compromise to calm opponents. It all worked out in the end because it struck the right chord in people. Mosque or no mosque, it will be the same at Ground Zero. People will make of it what is useful to them emotionally and disregard any other intention the designers may have had. Monuments are like novels. What the reader brings to the story creates its meaning far more than anything the author ever intended.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

41. well said

[Altoid_Cyclist]

42. These people are as bad as the ones that complained about the original design

of the "Flight 93 Memorial" in Shanksville.

That design set off a fire storm among some because it was "crescent shaped" and therefore they assumed that it was actually a tribute to the people behind 9-11.

Peace, understanding and living in harmony seems to be a Quixotic notion among too many people.

[slackmaster]

43. Tax the mosques

And the churches, synagogues, temples, etc.

[ProudDad]

44. K&R

Good Job! :hi:

[tavalon]

45. Spot on!

No, of course you don't need the tag. Well spoken.

[TZ]

46. Just what I've been thinking.

How about Catholic Churches near the old Concentration Camps in Germany and Poland....

[Deep13]

47. Completely agree.

It's like allowing the Catholic Church to babysit child rape victims.

[PatrynXX]

49. well.

the bible does say gay is wrong but so is murder so as and two wrongs don't make it right

that said... aren't there muslim's fighting with us in this war? weren't there muslim's killed on 9/11??

[cate94]

50. K & R

[defendandprotect]

51. Like your reasoning -- !!!

:)

[orbitalman]

53. K&R, not in totals n/t