Would You Consider The Following Progressive?

[Steely_Dan]

But if by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

-JFK September, 1960

[Sebastian Doyle]

1. Certainly isn't DLC "centrist"

Their version would go something like this.....

But if by a "Democrat" they mean someone who looks in the center and not to the left , someone who welcomes new ideas from corporations, someone who cares about the welfare of Wall $treet -- and wants them to control their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate, agree with Republicans, and marginalize those "fucking retards", if that is what they mean by a "New Democrat," then I'm proud to say I'm a "New Democrat."

-Bizarro World JFK December, 1963

[Steely_Dan]

2. Excellent! n/t

[sandnsea]

6. And yet JFK cut taxes

invaded Cuba and didn't move fast enough on civil rights.

He wouldn't last 5 minutes with a 1961 DU crowd. Who are you kidding?

[Steely_Dan]

7. I was referring to the quote...

I'm sorry if you didn't understand that.

My question was an honest one. I sincerely don't know anymore what a 'progressive" is or a "liberal." Hell, I don't even know what a dem is anymore.

[sandnsea]

9. I was talking to Sebastian

and referring to his stupid DLC comment. JFK was no Dennis Kucinich so what's the point of all this handwringing anyway.

[Steely_Dan]

11. Got it. n/t

[OHdem10]

12. When JFK cut taxes, he really removed the War Tax. FDR had

a war tax to help pay for WWII. No one had removed it.
JFK removed the war tax and thus cut taxes. At least
FDR and earlier Democrats paid for the wars.

[sandnsea]

14. I understand that

But I've seen how shit gets twisted around here and it wouldn't be any different with JFK, FDR or any other Democratic President.

[girl gone mad]

13. So the left is against cutting taxes on the demand side?

Since when?

[sandnsea]

15. lol, is that how you rationalize it?

How do you rationalize Cuba and civil rights?

[girl gone mad]

16. Rationalize what?

That JFK practiced standard Keynesian economics?

You need to learn some history. It was the liberals that were calling on Kennedy to pass those tax cuts to stimulate the economy, not a bunch of conservative supply-side thugs.

Bay of Pigs was pure stupidity - an effort to avoid being labeled "soft on communism" - but at least Kennedy stopped his Generals from turning the missile crisis into a full-fledged war like they wanted.

[sandnsea]

17. So what do you call Obama's $400 tax cut?

You need to learn some common sense.

[girl gone mad]

18. I never said anything about Obama's tax cuts.

You insinuated that Kennedy's tax cuts would have made him unpopular with liberals, when in fact it was the liberal wing that convinced him to cut taxes. At that time, the Keynesians were considered left-wing kooks by most. Kennedy didn't want to run deficits, he wanted to balance the budget. But he gave the liberals a seat at the table and listened to what they had to say with an open mind.

[sandnsea]

19. If Kennedy's were liberal, so were Obama's

So why are Obama's tax cuts unpopular with liberals, if your theory is correct. I would argue Obama's tax cuts were more Keynesian than Kennedy's, considering the $400 went to working people whether they pay federal taxes or not. They were most certainly deficit spending, and a huge ton of it. So where are all the leftists defending these tax cuts to the blue dog deficit hawks?

[girl gone mad]

20. I can't speak for others.

I thought the tax cuts weren't the right solution for our current situation. They were way too small and essentially a retread of the Bush stimulus checks, which also failed. Obama's economic advisers reasoned that Bush's stimulus checks didn't work because they came in one lump sum and devised that the solution was to spread the tax cut out over a full year. In fact, I'd argue that Bush's program failed because it was a Friedmanite "money gift", designed to escape a liquidity trap. The Obama administration, just like the Bush administration before them, was fighting the wrong battle. We didn't have a liquidity crisis, we had (have) a solvency crisis and a full-blown employment crisis.

Personally, I am for a full payroll tax holiday and a massive jobs program (guaranteed minimum wage job for anyone willing to work).

ETA: Keynesian economics is fairly mainstream now. I'm a post-Keynesian. Not sure why the Keynesians didn't like Obama's tax cuts. IIRC, Krugman wanted more money to go directly into spending programs and a much bigger stimulus package overall.

[sandnsea]

21. There were tax cuts spread over a year

There was additional money in weekly unemployment checks. And there was a massive jobs program.

You just repeat talking points without considering the facts at all.

[Oregone]

3. Not really

Im not even sure Id say it was beyond an ambiguous description of "Liberal". Sounds pretty enough though.

[Steely_Dan]

4. Then, By Today's Standards

What would you consider this JFK quote?

[Oregone]

5. A rejection against using the term "Liberal" in with negative connotation

He is listing his best attributes in response to the idea of calling him "Liberal" as an insult, to show that he may be liberal, but not a bad person.

Correct me if Im wrong....that seems to be the context (just a guess)

It doesn't seem to be presented as a literal definition of "Liberal" as he understood the term

[Steely_Dan]

8. I see... n/t

[DeSwiss]

10. K&R

YES.