Anyone know where I can get unpasteurized milk not labeled as such, sold without a dairy permit?

[Orrex]

I've had such a craving lately.

And if I can accused of being a shill for Big Agra in the process, that would be the best!


TIA!

[Robb]

1. Meh.

You're just succumbing to listeria hysteria, salmonella whatcha yella & e coli.... something. Ran out of rhyming mojo.

[leftstreet]

2. The only people who should be drinking milk are baby cows n/t

[Newest Reality]

3. +1

[NNN0LHI]

12. How is anyone going to eat a box of Ho Hos without a glass of milk?

Can't be done.

Don

[SunnySong]

13. There would not be any baby cows if humans didn't drink milk. nt

[Odin2005]

17. Fuck that vegan crap!

[leftstreet]

21. Why do you hate the vega?

[postulater]

19. The only people who should be drinking cow blood are Masai. n/t

[Igel]

50. Evolution says otherwise.

The ability for adults to drink milk has evolved at least 3 times, and each time has spread fairly quickly.

If it didn't enable increased survival of progeny but institute constituted a risk, it wouldn't have spread.

[SoCalDem]

4. Buy a cow

:)

[Recursion]

9. Or go in with 10 people to share a cow

Lots of people do that. State ag departments still hassle them.

[MineralMan]

5. You could buy a cow. That'd work, and think of all the money you'd

save from not driving to the store to buy milk. With the savings, you could buy a hand-operated butter churn, too, and make your own butter and buttermilk. Yessir...buying a cow is the answer. If you have a garage, you could easily turn it into a barn. I can see it all now... :rofl:



Bossy's just waiting for you!

[xchrom]

6. I'm pretty sure you could drink it and nothing bad would happen

I'm also pretty sure you could drink and something
really bad could happen.

Mores the pity if your whole got sick that way too.

I'll take my chances with pasteurized.

[burnsei sensei]

10. As I said, it depends on who's milking

and what kind of bacteria and somatic cell counts they have over a year.

[xchrom]

11. i don't want to make sure of the milker all the time.

humans can be lazy and accident prone --
pasteurized can take away some of that.

[burnsei sensei]

14. For the safety of an urbanized society,

pasteurization is absolutely necessary.
But I was not living in a city at that time, of course.
You can give away small amounts of dairy or agricultural product, but you can't sell them.
The issue, I think, is not "to process or not to process", "to regulate or not to regulate".
The issue is on whose terms and in which arena is the product sold?
I am not a libertarian in favor repealing the Pure Food and Drug Act.

[Recursion]

7. Yes, from a cow share

Legal in all 50 states. Quit yer whinin'

[burnsei sensei]

8. I've had unpasteurized milk,

not labeled as such,
from the dairy farm on which my husband worked.
The reason I could trust it was that he had the lowest bacteria count in the region of several counties.
There are ways of milking cows that produce safe milk.
I drank such milk for YEARS and never got sick.
Pasteurization is still the best course for milk when it comes from several dairies and when you can't be sure that the people who are milking and taking care of the cattle know what they're doing.
Knowing the bacteria count is key, and the testing is done every three weeks to a month.

[sarge43]

20. Same here.

The key -- are the cows and their milk routinely and consistantly checked.

[Obamanaut]

25. Me too. I lived for several of my childhood years in a children's home,

and we had cows that we milked by hand. We also had chickens, turkeys, and a couple of horses. Raised a lot of our own vegetables as well.

We survived. This was in the late 1940s to early '50s.

[Subdivisions]

15. Nice going out of your way to call me out on my OP yesterday.

What did I ever do to you?

And why didn't you just post your snark there instead of starting a whole new OP on it?

Not that I really care. Just making an observation, as I'm sure you were.

[gvstn]

22. I'm glad at least one person recognized this as snark!

[burnsei sensei]

26. I understand it's snark, but

it's written from a very narrow standpoint and makes assumptions that are untenable.

[Orrex]

31. Narrow standpoint? Untenable assumptions? Do tell.

[burnsei sensei]

38. Okay,

Quote:
Anyone know where I can get unpasteurized milk not labeled as such, sold without a dairy permit?
I've had such a craving lately.
And if I can accused of being a shill for Big Agra in the process, that would be the best!
end quote.

In fact there are people responding to this thread where you can get "unpasteurized milk not labeled as such" . . .
"sold without a dairy permit" ?
What is that supposed to mean--?
That the dairy is permitted to do what--?
Sell its milk?
Send its milk to a processor or co-operative?
Bottle and pasteurize its own milk?
Make arrangements to distribute its milk locally?

Dairies can do all of these things variously.
There is no one permit.
There is no one arrangement.

How could you be "accused of being a shill for big Agra" if you drink raw milk from a dairy that was either sold milk or not sold it to you through informal extra-mercatory channels?
What you have proposed is untenable because it makes no sense.

[Orrex]

40. So you endorse the deceptive selling of nonpasteurized milk?

That is, you're fine with a vendor selling a food product without disclosing specific information relative to the safety of that product?

For that matter, is any old vendor authorized to sell dairy products willy-nilly, with no disclosure or safety protocols required? Or is a special permit (and specific compliance) required before a seller can sell it? If the latter, then my question makes fairly obvious sense as written. If the former, then that's pretty fucked up.


If you think that the question makes no sense, then I submit that you haven't really understood it.

[burnsei sensei]

46. What do you know about the

safety protocols you are writing about?

Quote:
That is, you're fine with a vendor selling a food product without disclosing specific information relative to the safety of that product?
For that matter, is any old vendor authorized to sell dairy products willy-nilly, with no disclosure or safety protocols required?
end quote.

So I decide to buy fruit from a stand or apples from a grower.
The products are not graded in any way, but given their quality, I must conclude that they are grown locally.
There are no disclosures of specific information about the safety of said fruit.
There is no deception involved. I know where the fruit came from and who is selling it.
I've done it before.
I'll do it again.

What makes you think that grocery stores and supermarkets are required to list all the safety protocols concerning products they sell?
I've never seen information like that disclosed anywhere.
There are symbols and specific words, but nothing like specific information about how those symbols and words were procured.
You seem to think though, that I'm advocating a complete repeal of USDA inspections and protections of food.
I'm not.
My informal buying doesn't threaten your system in any way.
What would be much worse is the lifting of USDA symbols and words and the placing of these onto informally sold fruit.
I don't think that happens at fruit stands or at dairy farms. No one ever told me that the raw milk I was drinking was Grade A.

[Orrex]

48. Fruit isn't dairy, and dairy isn't fruit

Honestly, I don't care if you want to latch onto Bessie's teat and suckle until the cows come home. Drink up, I say.

Selling raw milk without disclosing that it is unpasteurized is deceptive selling. That's a kind of processing that doesn't generally occur with produce that's heaped in a bushel basket. If the produce undergoes some atypical treatment that's outside of the reasonable expectations of the consumer, then the seller should disclose this. That's my basic point, and it still stands. As long as a full disclosure is made, then there's no problem.

Your "informal buying" doesn't threaten my system in any way, perhaps, but the vendor's informal selling should adhere to the regulations governing food sales. Failing that, the vendor must absolutely be on the hook 100% for illness or injury resulting from the "informal sale" of those products.

[Junkdrawer]

23. It's a callout....

But since it supports Big Ag, it's allowed.

[gvstn]

28. So what is a call out?

If I make a post

What I can't make lemonade made from rain water?

If I make my own lemonade from rain water and have more than I can drink aren't my neighbors who know I make my lemonade from rain water rather than municipal water and actively seek it out allowed to buy my excess? Should the feds come and shut me down? Confiscating my computer and ransacking my home?

is it snark or a call out or debate?

Serious question. Thanks!

[laughingliberal]

47. +1000 nt

[Orrex]

30. Didn't even see your post.

[slackmaster]

16. Get a goat

They're really very nice, once you get to know them.

[sarge43]

18. Any dairy farms near you?

Many are selling unpasteurized whole milk.

A good place to check would be farmer's markets.

[slampoet]

24. You're in Pennsylvania...Drive to find an Amish community. Buy a pie and then start negotiating.

The kind of Amish people who are open enough to sell pies on the side of the road are going to be the ones who would direct you to a dairy farming friend.

Just be respectful and humble.

[madinmaryland]

27. Actually, they have been clamping down on the Amish for selling unpastuerized milk.

Chances are they will not sell milk to an "English" person, who just walks in off the street.

[slampoet]

33. Ah crap. Sorry to hear it.

And as a slow food advocate, what a frikkin shame.


Don't you just LOVE how they clap down on Amish farmers in ways they wouldn't dare bust Church Bake Sales?

[mhatrw]

44. Who has? More Big Agra shills?

[tech9413]

29. There's only one way

Get to know a local farmer that grazes their stock. The farm I buy from just has a pay bucket so it's an honor based system. The big problem is that in most states it's not legal to sell unprocessed milk. Stupid overkill rules, but that's the way it is.

[LWolf]

32. Before I moved, I had all the fresh goat's milk I wanted

from my neighbor. Find a small homestead that has extra milk.

I don't drink milk, but I love cheese and yogurt.

[dixiegrrrrl]

34. Find a farmer's market near you.

buy stuff there, get to know the people, then ask if they know anyone.
It is almost an underground thing anymore.

[ZombieHorde]

35. Seduce a cow and gets lots of free milk during foreplay. nt

[Orrex]

36. That's your answer for everything.

[ZombieHorde]

37. If it works, it works. nt

[Agony]

39. Whatever, next thing I know

you'll have me on "Ignore" for the past two days...

[panzerfaust]

41. Just about anywhere at the beginning of the last century

when the life expectancy at birth was in the mid-forties.

TB is good for you, it naturally strengthens "the immune system," as do e coli and other inhabitants of unpasteurized (and even, to a lesser degree, pasteurized) milk.

As Nietzsche observed "That which does not kill you makes you stronger"

Actually, milk is a food evolved/designed specifically to meet the nutritional needs of an individual species's infants - it is unclear that humans get any particular benefit from consuming milk past infancy, especially given the high incidence of at least partial lactose intolerance in adults.

[hedgehog]

42. Agent Mike, that you?

[mhatrw]

43. Good example. Raw milk is better for you than pasteurized milk.

http://www.indyweek.com/indyweek/drink-it-raw/Content?oid=1202527

[Recursion]

45. Here, incidentally, is a breakdown of raw milk laws by state

http://www.realmilk.com/milk-laws-1.html

From the first bit of the alphabet, at least, CA and AZ allow it to be sold in stores (but like all food, it must be labeled).

[Igel]

51. Thanks for the list.

I was wondering what laws were in Texas. Raw milk okay, buy it on the farm from a licensed dealer. Great.

I think part of the law is nauseating. When I lived in Oregon, a lot of friends got raw goat milk. I got the unclaimed milk. It's okay.

But Texas law would make that weird:

"Raw goat milk producers can also obtain an animal feed license. They get the license from the Texas Feed and Fertilizer Service, a branch of the Office of the State Chemist. Goat milk producers with an animal feed license must have their products contain a label with the statement "For Animal Feed Only." In addition, all raw goat milk products for animal feed must contain a blue dye."

[Recursion]

53. I had a friend who made cat food from chicken meat and organs

It was deemed "too edible" so she had to put either ash or ink in it.

[tammywammy]

54. Possibly to differentiate between raw goat milk for humans vs other animals. n/t

[Bluenorthwest]

49. How can you crave a lack of label? Or a lack of permit?

This is absurd. In lots of States you can buy raw milk, but it will be labeled as such, so I don't know what to tell you, sport. For raw cheese, I say go to France and get it over with. They might have labels, however, and permits.

[Dr. Strange]

52. I get mine from an elfin cow named Chani.