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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:34 AM
Original message
Planned Parenthood's reaction to WH banning choice for women in high risk pools.
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 03:16 AM by saracat
Enough is enough!


Dear ,

This is not what we worked for. This is not what we fought for.

You and I, and millions of Planned Parenthood supporters, fought
for a year to make sure that health care reform would provide
comprehensive coverage to every woman, man, and child in
America. We achieved some tremendous victories, including
defeating the Stupak amendment that would have banned private
insurance coverage of abortion for millions of women.

Now, a Stupak-like rule is back -- and it came from the Obama
administration. Tell the Obama administration to reverse this
decision and allow women to secure the coverage they need:

The final health care reform bill included extensive
restrictions on using federal funds to pay for abortion
coverage, but the decision announced by the U.S. Department of
Health and Human Services yesterday goes beyond even these
restrictions.

The Obama administration has decided that no woman in the new
high-risk insurance pools will be allowed to obtain abortion
coverage beyond limited cases (rape, incest, endangering the
life of the woman). Not even if she pays for that coverage with
her own money.

We need to make sure the Obama administration knows this is
unacceptable. Click here to do your part and tell the Obama
administration to reverse this decision:

The high-risk insurance pools are for some of the most medically
vulnerable women in the country -- those with pre-existing
conditions such as breast and ovarian cancer, AIDS, diabetes,
and other conditions that may make pregnancy extraordinarily
dangerous. These women will be locked out from abortion
coverage, even if they pay for it out of their own pockets.

Tell the Obama administration to reverse this decision
immediately:
The president committed his administration to preventing any
federal funds from being spent on abortion care. But the fact
is, this announcement from HHS goes beyond that. Nothing in the
new health care reform law requires a ban on abortion coverage
in the high-risk pools. No law passed by Congress forced this
decision. The Obama administration has chosen to place a new
burden on ill and medically vulnerable women seeking abortion
coverage.

After all the amazing work and the unyielding dedication from
Planned Parenthood supporters like you that helped get us this
far, I can't just let that happen. This is not what we fought
for -- which means it's time to fight back against the Obama
administration's abortion coverage ban now.
Contact Planned Parenthood to sign the petition

http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org /

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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:39 AM
Response to Original message
1. I am watching my entire life's work being undermined by a Democratic government.
My 20 year old daughter, if she wants to access reproductive health care, is going to have to wear a database scarlet letter.
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Liberty Belle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. This makes me sick! We need a march on the White House.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:53 AM
Response to Reply #2
55. Why bother, the WH doesn't give a good goddamn
A march wouldn't even raise public awareness of the facts because it wouldn't be covered by the media anyway. Unless of course there was *violence* (no doubt started by deliberately placed outside agitators) in which case the media would portray the march as a vengeful mob of crazed femi-nazis bent on shredding the very fabric of decent Amercian society.

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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:30 PM
Response to Reply #55
108. If you got 10 million people in Washington they'd do well to listen.
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:15 PM
Response to Reply #108
135. It's getting the 10 million there that's the problem. nt
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #108
145. there were millions marching in DC and around the world
before the invasion of Iraq and this fact barely made a blip in the American media. On the way home from work the other day, I listened to NPR discuss the tea party movement as something worth serious consideration, without ever mentioning that Dick Armey was the founder of the teabaggers, that there was nothing "outsider" about the movement, that it was promoted on Fox News, even - with people on their payroll as participants.

This nation has fallen to fascism. It may be the "friendly fascism" of global economics, but it's fascism all the same.
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Fearless Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:37 PM
Response to Reply #145
151. It needs to be more. At least 10 million. And they can't leave.
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Enthusiast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #55
128. I believe you have it. nt
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HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 08:13 AM
Response to Reply #55
201. Agreed I have known a few women who had to have
to terminate pregnancies health related and the fact that one was poor, working her way through college her fiance decided on learning that he was not going to marry her..the wedding was a couple months out. She and the baby had some health issues which would make it a very expensive and difficult delivery(had been married and already had one child she barely survived delievery).

These assholes are all about pleasing the evil pigs and fascists..that is why congress will be puke kkkondtrolled after midterms because we got out there and worked to get them elected they then pander to the lowest of the low.

I signed the petitionn.
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Citizen Worker Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
77. We need to organize and march in the streets and the White House will get the message
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #77
169. The WH is impervious to "the message"
Organize and march if you will, it will be ignored as a non-event unless the PTB decide to make a reproachful example of us by creating chaos and violence in our midst. In that event the media will surely report the march, depicted as a crazed mob of radical criminals whose "message" is worthy only of ridicule.

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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:20 PM
Response to Reply #2
175. beware
of the "free speech zones" :sarcasm:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 12:10 AM
Response to Reply #2
188. We need a new candidate in 2012 . . . that's what we need . . . . !!
Wonder what other Democrats are saying about this?

A lot of stuff on this in my e-mail today -- signed a lot of petitions --

going to take one hell of a lot more than petitions and a march on Washington

to take this party back from the brink -- !!

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. but..but..but... this isn't a Democratic government
It's a corporatist with a (D) after the name.

A blind man coulda seen all this crap coming.

Kerry and Gore would have been the same too- corporatists.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:45 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. This is one of the greatest disappointments of my lifetime.I never thought
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 02:45 AM by saracat
I would see the day a Democratic Administration would so damage the rights of women. I am beyond horrified. Civil Rights have no meaning anymore. We can't even purchase Birth Control prescriptions if our pharmacist disapproves. And before the chorus chimes in, "No ,I am not overstating the issue".
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. I spent years doing clinic defense...
spit on, punched, kicked, sexually assaulted, called the most vile names by so-called "Christians" for this?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #6
111. when i lived in Kansas ..I walked women into clinics..so they would not be harassed
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 03:40 PM by flyarm
by protesters and to cover their faces..

and When I lived in LA i used to read the want ad's on Sundays of groups offering money to people to be fake protestors...many hired were drug addicts needing a fix...I use to follow them..at great risk..to expose them.

Because two girls In my High schools died from back alley abortions..one in a Boat warehouse in the cold of winter..her frozen body was found dead..she bled to death..The quack who did it was never found.

I had a 16 year old cousin who got Preg. and she was put AWAY into a "HOME" In San Fran. to have the baby.,there was such shame back then..by the family to hide her away..the Baby was taken from my cousin and given away..

She committed suicide at age 17. She was 6 months younger than me.

I said never again in my life....

And now look who is doing this to women..not a republican..oh hell no..

with friends like this ..who the fuck needs enemy's?
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #111
114. These stories are so heartwrenchingly tragic. We've been trying to warn young women for years.
But no, they wasted valuable time and energy trying to convince themselves and others that push-up bras and spike heels were emblems of the 3rd wave of womens' liberation.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #114
177. six years ago...
I was enrolled in the local CC and took AM History. When we got to Roe V Wade, the professor asked how many supported the decision. It was a class of 35. Me and another guy my age (about 36 at the time) rose our hands. The class was half female, and NONE of them supported it. It was very sad.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #177
185. It has been taken for granted by many young women today..that is a drastic mistake.
and the next generations will hold them accountable for those mistakes and laziness to care.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
40. omg -- that's such a good point.
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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
73. "going to have to wear a database scarlet letter"
That merits highlighting.

It's the painting of a target on women for wanting access to a legal medical procedure.

And the implications of that are terrible.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #1
174. "Only Nixon could have gone to China"
reproductive rights will be killed by dems, just like Bill brought about "welfare reform"
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:46 AM
Response to Original message
5. saracat -- the link in the OP goes to a filled out form, fyi. n/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:03 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:17 AM
Response to Reply #5
9.  Thanks. This is the link!
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 03:37 AM by saracat
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:40 PM
Response to Reply #9
87. Thank you, saract. And I apologize for not noticing my error earlier.
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Irishonly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:22 PM
Response to Reply #9
94. THanks
N/t
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
7. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:23 AM
Response to Original message
10. If there is anything else this administration can betray I am
having trouble finding it. The BHO presidency has been a disappointment on a METAPHYSICAL level.
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:59 AM
Response to Reply #10
13. I have to wonder where the 50% approval ratings are coming from
among my friends (and I'll count the 530+ on Facebook, the vast majority of which are liberal) I only know of two who are actually happy with his presidency. Both are fairly well off financially, so that might have something to do with it. Everyone else is FURIOUS. They're more angry at the GOP for the mess we're in, of course, but they just can't wrap their head around just why Obama caters to the very people who caused the problem. Various theories abound and no one wants to believe that he's really one of them. After all, how could an intelligent, highly educated person adopt such stupid, corrupt policies?
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saigon68 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:07 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. Well it appears he will get his in Nov
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #13
154. "Progressive radio" constantly supports him and puts down anyone with a
grievance.
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peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:01 PM
Response to Reply #10
56. Don't bother to ask, there will always be something else
they can manage to betray us with. Actions speak louder than any well-written and delivered speech. The only conclusion one can draw is that THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT US.

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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #56
195. And never have.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 02:48 AM
Response to Reply #10
212. Same here. And it is not that I now feel betrayed by one
Person, I feel totally sold out.

As awful as the Bush/Cheney/Rove years were, I convinced myself if we could just get it together and elect a Democratic President, we'd see some great things happening.

But with the way things are now (And including finding out the other day that Rahm had been the legal brains behind NAFTA doesn't help my mood,) I am now even without much HOPE.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:52 AM
Response to Original message
11. BEYOND outrageous.
Mind-boggling. I just learned about this, and this is just Unreal.

See this for gory details: http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/print/13874

This week, a commotion arose over the question of whether Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plans, also known as high risk pools, can include abortion coverage. The Obama Administration responded immediately by imposing a total ban on abortion coverage in the pools that echoes the Stupak Amendment, even though nothing in the law requires such action.


Responded "Immediately" - to ban abortion coverage. :crazy: Some messed up priorities, to say the least.

And for NO reason at all, as the article explains.


But the whole point of the compromise was to preserve the status quo, which included both restricted and unrestricted spheres of abortion funding. Moreover, the terms of the agreement were carefully negotiated. Abortion opponents who participated in the bargaining did not raise concerns about high risk pools or other specific potential sources of federal funding, and they should be able to live with the deal they made.
...
Thus, without even any political or legislative benefit to receive in exchange, the Obama Administration has imposed a more restrictive abortion funding rule on PCIPs than is required for health insurance exchanges or Medicaid.

One would expect a Bush-style administration to assume that Hyde applies to the high risk pools or to interpret the Executive Order broadly to cover more than the exchanges and CHCs. But it is extremely disappointing to see an ostensibly pro-choice administration go out of its way to appease those who have always opposed health reform and who will continue to make political targets of those who voted for reform regardless of what the Administration does on abortion. It is never ok to trade womens rights for political reasons, but in this case the calculus seems to be particularly bankrupt.



Oh, and the insult to injury is that (according to the article) he applied the ban to risk pools not just at the federal, but at the state level as well. That's just unreal. It's like deliberate sabotage for no reason, I am just... AMAZED. :wow: :wtf:


It was such an odd thing to do and such a low blow and so completely gratuitous that... I really didn't expect it from him. Well, now we know I guess. It's certainly a new low. How can any (supposedly pro-choice) Democrat defend that action is beyond me.

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puzzlingpond Donating Member (86 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #11
22. Looks like his decision on this is set in stone.
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #11
43. OK, this is
not nice. May Karma make sure he stays flaccid for life.
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:57 AM
Response to Original message
12. k/r
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xchrom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:19 AM
Response to Original message
14. Recommend it's going to be interesting to watch this story develop. Nt
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dkf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:34 AM
Response to Original message
15. Yet another reason this is a crappy bill
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:05 AM
Response to Original message
17. Please help me understand this.
The Obama administration is trying to make health care options WORSE for women with cancer, say, who find out they're pregnant while undergoing chemo?

The Obama administration is trying to make it impossible for them to be able to have health care coverage if, say, a woman in this situation needs to have an abortion - say, because massive chemo therapy could kill a fetus in utereo - and that woman would have to pay out of pocket for an abortion or else carry a dead fetus to term and give birth to a dead baby? And not have insurance coverage for complications that could arise from this?

Is that what this provision forces upon women in already difficult circumstances?

Women with diabetes, who are at risk for all sorts of life-threatening issues if they combine pregnancy, are supposed to pay out of pocket for an abortion if their doctors deem it is too risky for them to continue a pregnancy or carry a fetus to term and face possible death? Women who already have children - women whose children would be motherless if such a situation occurred?

Is this what the Obama administration wants to force upon the women in America?

Forced childbirth, even if a woman's life is at risk?

Even if a woman wants to pay for insurance for abortion coverage out-of-pocket?

The Obama administration wants to deny insurance coverage for women in these circumstances?

I'm trying to wrap my mind around this issue - I'm trying to understand what could possibly be the rationale for such a move, beyond a fanatic religious hatred for women. What possible motive could the Obama administration have for making this move, other than the desire to elevate religious hatred for women to the level of national policy.

Can someone help me understand what's going on here?



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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #17
20. raindog, that point is so excellent it needs to be it's own thread. Please?
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:38 PM
Original message
^ ITA^ and applaud SaraCat's OP
And this misogynistic control regarding a woman's health issue is one of the reasons I despise the so-called 'health care reform act'. The people who defend this mess are dupes or cynical men.

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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
100. Obama's decision is not misogynistic, just like his stance against gay marriage is not homophobic
Obama doesn't hate women, nor does he hate gays. What he does is capitulate to those who hate women and gays in a vain attempt to score political points.

I'll take an honest bigot any day over a political coward. At least with the bigot, you know where you stand.

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Chan790 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #100
136. Unfortunately...
I think that's the nail on the head. The president is a coward and a particularly-unskillful political "horse trader."

No position that cannot be sold-out or traded or bargained-away in the name of failing incrementalism.

The cravenness of it all is galling.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:27 PM
Response to Reply #20
138. I just got back home
thank you for the reply, and for the other replies here.

the level of depravity in this decision is breath taking.

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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:43 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. what's going on here is that obama is not who you think he is....
....ergo, your disillusionment.

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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:26 AM
Response to Reply #17
47. As I understand it....
This woman who has cancer or any other high-risk disease will have to gather up $500 (is that what PP charges today?) and get someone to take her to the nearest PP (could be hundreds of miles away) so she can get an abortion.

Is that what this administration is saying???? What about the dude who took part in this? Can we at least tie his weenie in a knot?

I am so sick of women carrying 100% of the responsibility for the continuation of this species.

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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:32 AM
Response to Reply #17
50. The MISOGYNISTS don't care about her health or the baby's, they only care about control.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #17
98. my thoughts exactly ...
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 02:40 PM by shireen
this simply does not make any sense!

:wtf:

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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:47 AM
Response to Original message
18. How long do we have to continue to ask this administration,
please do the right thing? This is just ridiculous.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #18
19. the only reason for a provision like this
is to provide support and sustenance to religious extremists in this nation.... the same extremists that support an organization that equates women in positions of clerical power with pedophilia. Or rather, that views women in clerical positions as worse than pedophiles since this same organization has spent years protecting the power and position of pedophiles within its organization.

this provision supports those who view women as second-class citizens, not only in the eyes of the state, but also in the eyes of their god. this provision's ONLY reason for existence is to undergird and reinforce the power of people in this nation who think that a fairy tale has the same value as solid science created by reproducible hypotheses.

this provision is a slap in the face to all woman - it tells ALL WOMEN that THIS PRESIDENT THINKS YOUR LIVES ARE LESS IMPORTANT THAN RELIGIOUS HATRED.

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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #19
24. well if he's going to throw away progressive votes....
....how else is he going to get re-elected?
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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #24
33. Electronic voting machines?
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tomp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #33
204. you have a point. see why dems didn't go after them aggressively? nt
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #19
42. It tells women that they're too stupid to have control over their reproductive
freedom, but smart enough to vote for Obama.

Wow! I'm loving the "hope" and "change"!
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #42
133. as far as I'm concerned... the expletive expletiving
administration has demonstrated it cares more about the idiotic, sickening, stupid beliefs of religious EXTREMISTS rather than women's lives and healthcare.

as far as I'm concerned, I do not have a political party that represents me in this nation.

if I had the money, I would be gone tomorrow.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:26 PM
Response to Reply #19
148. These extremists will never vote for Democrats anyway
which makes this a lose/lose all around- except for Republicans, who must be loving it.
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jimmie Donating Member (163 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #18
208. Its no wonder SOME dems feel alienated.
promises were made and while many have come true , alot haven't.

I guess half a loaf is better than the no crumbs shrubby ever gave except his big rich buddies of course.
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
21. Got info about this from ACLU also. It made me sick to my stomach!!!!!!!!!
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 09:31 AM by BrklynLiberal
Me and a million others marched in DC for women's rights..and THIS is what we get??????????



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snot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
34. (Wow -- good for you. When was that march?)
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BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #34
41. it was in April of 2004. An amazing experience.
The head count came to one million...and the media ignored us...
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:34 AM
Response to Reply #41
51. I was there as well.
It was overwhelming. I still have pictures. There were some great signs. It was a glorious day.

At the time, I remember Ashcroft (the religious atty gen who thought dancing was a sin) wanted to make it OK to get into women's medical records and search for abortion info.

After the March, he didn't mention it again.
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shireen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #21
99. +1
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City Lights Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:48 AM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
x(
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:01 AM
Response to Reply #26
29. ramen, brother placton.
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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #29
86. lol got deleted for failing to worship O in my post!
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #26
44. +1000
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AzDar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:55 AM
Response to Original message
27. K & R &...
:puke:
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
28. "Nothing's changed!!!111!!!"
Do you remember hearing that over and over and over by the HCR supporters in regards to abortion?

Alarm bells were going on in my head over whether the Hyde Amendment was now permanently enshrined (amongst other concerns) but anyone who even brought up any objections to the bill was firmly slapped down as not knowing anything....

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KG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:09 AM
Response to Original message
30. is this the 'we'll fix it later' part?
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:26 AM
Response to Reply #30
32. At least your response put a smile on my face.
This whole thing is so disgusting.

Yet, we better vote for Ds this fall or the evil repubs will win.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #30
180. +1 nt
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progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:13 AM
Response to Original message
31. Great. my shitty week, just got shittier.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:59 AM
Response to Original message
35. The high risk pool is so expensive, only women who own gold mines
will be able to buy in. Abortion, no abortion. Some can't even get their blood pressure taken let alone have a surgical procedure done.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #35
39. High-risk pool premiums per month for Washington State
(paraphrased)

$150 to $1500. Per month.

I don't want to hear another word about "subsidies" "70%", whatever. Even if we fall into the midrange, it's another mortgage payment. Per month.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:25 AM
Response to Reply #39
45. My husband and I are each in the $1500 range.
Needless to say, we're still going without.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:37 AM
Response to Reply #45
52. I have a bad feeling we'll be joining you
We can't afford this under any stretch of the imagination.

That's okay, though: Other people will get insurance!

Hope! Change!
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:32 PM
Response to Reply #52
97. Forgot this:
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #39
59. The point of high risk pools is to help people who could ALREADY afford a normal premium
but are instead charged a much higher premium for pre-existing conditions.

Its point is not to help people who couldn't afford a normal (non-pre-condition) premium to begin with. For that, the insurance exchanges and subsidies will start in 2014.
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #59
66. I wonder how many won't live until 2014.
The whole thing is an obscene exercise that helps a handful of citizens and leaves the rest behind and all the while big insurance makes out like bandits.
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #59
70. Why 2014? Why not 2011? Why? Have you tried to think about the reasons?

Hello. 50,000 people a year DIE because of lack of health insurance.

Why pass this crappy insurance "reform" and delay it by 4 years? That's just unheard of.

The thing is that people are NOT going to like it in 2014, but they are willing to give "hope and change" another shot and wait 4 years.

The whole thing is just infuriating.
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #70
109. Because 2014 is AFTER the next election.
THAT is when most of America will realize that Obama's "historic" Health Care Reform is nothing but a BIG Shit Sandwich, and a $$$ bonanza FOR the Health Insurance Industry (the incestuous 1st Cousin of Wall Street).

TPTB have already decided that the Republicans will get the Presidency in 2016.
That way, under the Corporate Power Sharing Agreement between the two parties, the illusion of "Choice" for the voters is maintained.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #109
181. +1000 nt
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:33 PM
Response to Reply #70
129. Because Ben Nelson wouldn't vote for it if the 10 year cost were more than a trillion
and making it start earlier than 2014 would make it cost more than a trillion over the first 10 years.
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #70
160. People do not die because of lack of health insurance
they die because they can't access health care.

Many people with insurance policies put off getting care because they can't afford the out of pockets.

We never hear how many underinsured people die before they should have because they still could not get care in time. And that will not change with the health insurance scam that has been foisted on us.
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Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #59
152. So, the quoted amounts aren't enough for you?
Even if we fall into the middle range, we will not be able to afford the premiums on the highly touted "high risk pools". We have no hope of obtaining insurance any other way.

>For that, the insurance exchanges and subsidies will start in 2014<

Just a three-year wait, huh? No big deal. I'm sure those three years will just fly by!
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:11 AM
Response to Original message
36. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
OnyxCollie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
37. K&R. nt
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femrap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:15 AM
Response to Original message
38. And the women
are thrown under the bus again. Old boss....new boss.

Makes me sick.
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
46. Obama is dead to me now. This is OUTRAGEOUS.
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
48. K&R
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Parker CA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:31 AM
Response to Original message
49. Incredible. K&R
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JonLP24 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:43 AM
Response to Original message
53. I was always told
Improvements would be made once the bill passed. I guess these were the type of improvements. :sarcasm:
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madfloridian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:46 AM
Response to Original message
54. Isn't that like the exec order he signed back in March this year?
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/...

I thought that covered the whole plan? Confused. Why are they just now petitioning about it?

Recommended this, BTW
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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:27 PM
Response to Reply #54
65. I think they didn't realize at the time that what was in the EO would
permeate the entire health insurance reform process. Or perhaps they thought they could take it one step at a time only to discover that there were no more steps to be presented.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:08 PM
Response to Original message
57. hey Planned Parenthood, Naral, ACLU..you supported this man over those of us who protested
many many many of us women knew this would be the case and yet you sold us out..and now you want us to write letters that we know will be meaningless?

I am done writing letters..but I assure you of this..You will never see another dime from me..not another luncheon , not another fund raiser..we warned you this would happen and you ignored us..

I write letters to try to stop Republicans from destroying our nation and from their bullshit policies..

We warned you when this whole health care bill was selling us all out...yes.. YOU.. Planned Parenthood, and Naral , and ACLU and Emily's list..I know I warned you ..because I wrote you letters and answered your survey's with letters ..warning you of this and many more things that this administration would fuck women over with their policies...but you still supported this bullshit..now you want us to write more letters..maybe you should have read our letters when we wrote you telling you we would not support the health care give away bill to big Pharma and the corporate whore masters!

I am done writing letters..you sat back while two states had their primary votes stolen..and you sat silent and allowed it..many of those votes were womens votes..we were called names and subjected to harrassment and worse.

I am done!
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Mimosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #57
69. Flyarm, I remember you posting info here, too
And I was agreeing that what Obama and Congress foisted on us was a boondoggle for the insurance companies and providers. And that our options for health care would become more limiting and expensive in the future.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:30 PM
Response to Reply #69
81. well i sure hope those young ones who called us names..like hangers!
wtf would those of us who lived in those times know?? ..you know those of us who have spent a lifetime working to protect women's rights....correct??????

We warned..and warned and warned..only to be called all sorts of ugly names..

I don't like the "we told you so" crap..but this time..I will say it loud and clear..we told you so!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And I spoke to leaders of ACLU, Emily's list ..and Many top members of Naral..now they can hold their hands on their asses..for any support from me..I didn't spend a lifetime working my ass off and giving huge blocks of money to these groups to work to protect womens rights.. to be ignored of my, and many of my peers warnings!

Hey I am past the worrying of getting PG..now let the young ones who called us nasty repunant names..fight for their own damn rights! Seems like when they were so busy calling us names..they did a lousey job protecting their own rights!
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #69
91. Yes I did post and warn about it many times..but I walked the walk..I called and went to lunch with
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 01:55 PM by flyarm
people from the groups mentioned..I filled out their surveys and questioniers..and I wrote letters to all of them..only to be sold out by them all!

Now ..NOW they want us to write letters to a Democratic President who is doing more harm to women than any republicans have been able to do?????????

This is a republican wet dream! And they have a democratic administration doing this to women!

No..Like I said ..I am done!

Thanks Mimosa..for letting me know and acknowledging you read my posts..I appreciate that..it is many times tough swimming upstream in a tsunami..
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theHandpuppet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:44 PM
Response to Reply #57
72. You're not the only one who remembers this
And I will never forget, either.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:09 PM
Response to Original message
58. Aren't these plans being operated consistent with federal law?
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 12:10 PM by ProSense

Statement of HHS Spokeswoman Jenny Backus on the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan Policy

As is the case with FEHB plans currently, and with the Affordable Care Act and the President's related Executive Order more generally, in Pennsylvania and in all other states abortions will not be covered in the Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) except in the cases of rape or incest, or where the life of the woman would be endangered.

Our policy is the same for both state and federally-run PCIP programs. We will reiterate this policy in guidance to those running the Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan at both the state and federal levels. The contracts to operate the Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan include a requirement to follow all federal laws and guidance.



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Cerridwen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:16 PM
Response to Reply #58
60. So, you're saying this is just more of the same?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:18 PM
Response to Reply #58
61. NO ,NOT " consistent with federal law" ..as per the ACLU!!
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 01:00 PM by flyarm
edited with bolding..

https://secure.aclu.org/site/Advocacy?pagename=homepage...

Dear Friend,

We need you to act immediately to undo a disturbing decision from the Obama administration. Remember all the hard work you and other ACLU activists did to defeat Rep. Stupak's draconian abortion coverage ban during the health care debate?

Well now, the White House has decided to voluntarily impose the ban for all women in the newly-created high risk insurance pools. What is disappointing is that there is nothing in the law that requires the Obama administration to impose this broad and highly restrictive abortion ban. It doesn't allow states to choose to cover abortion and it doesn't even give women the option to buy abortion coverage using their own money. .

Ask President Obama WHY his administration is restricting coverage for vulnerable women.

Unless the Administration reverses this decision, some of America's most vulnerable womenthose with pre-existing conditions who have been denied health care coverage on the individual marketwon't be able to purchase abortion coverage except in the case of rape or incest or to save the pregnant woman's life.

You and I know that every woman should be able to decide what is best for her health and her family. A pro-choice administration should know that too.

It's especially discouraging to impose a ban on women participating in a high-risk insurance pool who are particularly vulnerable and may have a special need for abortion. For example, because of the restriction, a woman with heart disease or diabetes might be compelled to carry a pregnancy to term despite its potentially damaging effect on her future health.

Ask President Obama not to stand in the way of vulnerable women's health care choices.

It's urgent that you send your message to President Obama right now. When you do, we'll also forward a copy to Secretary of Health and Human Services Kathleen Sebelius, whose department is putting this unnecessary and harmful restriction into effect.

Thank you for acting on this urgent matter.

Sincerely,

Laura W. Murphy
Director, Washington Legislative Office



ACLU, 125 Broad Street, 18th Floor, New York, NY 10004



Wow..I never in my life thought I would see CAHNGE LIKE THIS..from a Democratic president..CHANGE WE CAN BELIEVE IN..I THINK NOT!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. There is nothing in the statement that mentions anything remotely being asserted by the ACLU.
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 12:23 PM by ProSense
They know the federal law, it prohibits using federal funds to cover elective abortions except in the case of rape, incest or risk to a woman's health.

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Yuugal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #64
74. How about this statement?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #64
76. that is a copy of the ACLU email I received a couple hours ago..
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 01:08 PM by flyarm
any part of it you don't understand?

yes you are right ..they do know the federal law..and this was directly in their email to me and to millions of others throughout the USof A!

Well now, the White House has decided to voluntarily impose the ban for all women in the newly-created high risk insurance pools. What is disappointing is that there is nothing in the law that requires the Obama administration to impose this broad and highly restrictive abortion ban. It doesn't allow states to choose to cover abortion and it doesn't even give women the option to buy abortion coverage using their own money. .

snip:

It's especially discouraging to impose a ban on women participating in a high-risk insurance pool who are particularly vulnerable and may have a special need for abortion. For example, because of the restriction, a woman with heart disease or diabetes might be compelled to carry a pregnancy to term despite its potentially damaging effect on her future health.

snip:

Thank you for acting on this urgent matter.

Sincerely,

Laura W. Murphy
Director, Washington Legislative Office



ACLU, 125 Broad Street, 18th Floor, New York, NY 10004

comprehend?
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #76
115. "comprehend?"
You're joking, right? This one wouldn't get it if Obama personally showed up at her house with his own wet team, "must be vital to national security" would be her last thought.

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:40 PM
Response to Reply #115
130. Yep right you are, that is why i sent a message to Agent Mike..see #127!!
Just curious..would that be the wet dream team???????????
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #76
139. thank you for posting this
it is clear that Obama cares more about the wishes of the most repulsive, backward, hateful christo-fascist factions of this nation than the health of mothers with critical illnesses.

maybe he and Donnie Mc can cure women of cancer and diabetes, just like those people "with homosexuality" so that woman can be forced into childbirth for the good of the right wing in this nation - that's the only rationale for these actions.
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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #64
106. You are seriously going to try to defend this aren't you? So once again.
everyone else has gotten it wrong, the ACLU, Planned Parenthood ,NAARAL, and counless others but you will defend the detruction of choice and the placing of poor womens lives in jeopordy because this Admin say it is the right thing to do? What is it about high risk pool you don't understand? Or maybe you just don't care?
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #106
123. Outrage
du jour, facts.

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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:31 PM
Response to Reply #123
127. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #123
134. So again you insist all those folks are wrong ,correct? The outrage isn't justified ?
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 06:08 PM by saracat
You really aren't bothered by this at all are you? I posted the entire Planned Parenthood statement. The ACLU Statement was posted in this thread. Again you are saying these people are WRONG, aren't you?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:20 PM
Response to Reply #134
137. some people just think they are smarter than the Legal Minds at ACLU and Planned Parenthood..
they somehow have special decoder rings and they read through lines, and between lines and make up what they want the decoder ring to tell them..

didn't you know that Saracat???????

Hey hi lady!!

:hi:

Thanks so much for being a truthteller..seems to me ..there are more truth tellers around here the past couple days..so the special made up decoder rings are working over time!!
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:28 PM
Response to Reply #137
150. "hey Planned Parenthood, Naral, ACLU..you supported this man over those of us who protested"
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 07:29 PM by ProSense
Irony.


Which "special decoder rings" did you use?

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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #150
183. Oh no dear..the Irony is not on me..I am one who had my primary vote stolen..
one of two states..and my state did not vote for Obama in the primary and i have no doubt he will never win my state again! Doesn't take a genius to steal states votes..in Primaries..just crooks!
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #134
144. Prosense isn't bothered in the slightest.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #144
153. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #144
164. Actually, I prefer to use my brain instead of jumping on bandwagons. n/t
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #164
165. women's reproductive rights are not a "bandwagon."
but if you're unwilling to look at what Obama has just done, you'll say anything to avoid having to admit you're complicit with the religious right in their attempt to destroy women's rights to privacy.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #165
167. "if you're unwilling to look at what Obama has just done"
What has he done? Can you point to a policy, a fact, an actual statement from the administration that proves they're operating outside of existing law?

Anything?

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saracat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #167
170.  Wow. Just READ the ACLU statement. Please. Why do I bother.
But it does explain how this is an expansion. Believe as you will.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #170
205. She reads nothing posted by us plebians.
But she expects her posts to be put to memory.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 07:38 PM
Response to Reply #205
210. actually, the reality is that she has to defend the indefensible n/t
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:39 PM
Response to Reply #167
171. re-read the OP. then read post #76, in case you didn't read it the first time
the statement from the administration is their choice to limit women's reproductive freedom by voluntarily creating restrictions. Obama chose to throw these woman against a wall - not simply under the bus.

are you stating that the aclu is lying? are you stating that Obama did not voluntarily include restrictions that were not required?
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #167
203. go read the executive order! got a problem reading and comprehending? eom
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Sparkly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #123
178. What part of that is supposed to be reassuring? nt
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #123
184. oh so now we can not even post humor with Agent Mike without getting canned? wow..is all i can say.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #184
206. Not if ProSense don't like it. n/t
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dflprincess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #64
158. According the ACLU women in the high risk pools will not be able to
buy policies that cover abortion even using their own money. That goes way beyond Hyde.

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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #158
159. this is a total betrayal of women
the ONLY reason for this action is to support the continued intrusion of religious fascism in American democracy.

I cannot adequately express my level of disgust.

As far as I'm concerned, Obama doesn't even represent the democratic party - there is NOTHING in the democratic party platform - the statement of the goals and beliefs of the party - that includes religious repression of women.

it's so fucking disgusting I could spit.
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #58
85. So you do NOT consider this a limitation on women's reproductive freedoms?
No dancing, please. A simple answer will do.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #58
102. Honestly, Prosense, I gotta hand it to you.
Obama could eat a puppy on live tv and you'd be here with a bunch of little blue links on how raw puppies are healthy and delicious. I bow to your superhuman mastery of spin. :patriot:
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. got me chuckling!! poor dear puppies! eom
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ChiciB1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:44 PM
Response to Reply #102
157. I've RARELY Posted Much Of Late, But THIS Really Takes The CAKE AND
to actually have some of the VERY SAME PEOPLE DEFEND this says so much MORE ABOUT them than so many of us others!

Yep, eating a LIVE PUPPY would be defended in some way, I AM NOW SURE of it!!! To some, there is NOTHING this President can do wrong, and I had once thought some would FINALLY see the LIGHT, but now see that THEY NEVER EVER WILL!!

I've been fed up for so long I just had to block so much out of my mind, but just checking back in again today I see it's gotten WORSE than I EVER thought it could!

To so many of us who have been called names, or called out in some fashion I wonder just what it is that we can EVER do again to have ANY FAITH!! Don't know where to turn, and can think of only ONE THING to get "some" attention, and even MARCHING would probably get PANNED!! Revolution is the only thing we have, and I KNOW it won't happen because MOST don't think ANYONE EVEN CARES ANYMORE!!

This is MORE than sickening and to have SOME attempt to defend this is beyond any comprehension!!
:nuke:
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #157
162. anyone who can defend this action
does not share my political philosophy and, therefore, has nothing to say to me about any issue.

the next time someone wants to talk about whining and a pony - fire of the barbie cause they're got some puppies to grill.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:58 PM
Response to Reply #102
161. jgraz nails it.
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:09 PM
Response to Reply #102
166. "Obama could eat a puppy on live tv and you'd be here with a bunch of little blue links "
Yeah, and they'd probably lead to proof that the segment was fake, but that wouldn't stop some people from insisting that they're the real thing. Next thing you know puppies would be popping up in avatars.

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Number23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:27 PM
Response to Reply #166
176. "Next thing you know puppies would be popping up in avatars."
:rofl:

I didn't mean to laugh but that was pretty funny. :rofl:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 01:09 AM
Response to Reply #166
192. Was this "segment" fake?
Or did you just make up some shit and then get called on it?

The next time you actually "debunk" one of these White House sell-outs will be the first. Nobody's buying what you're selling.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #166
207. Wow. She even foretold her strategy there.
"The segment was fake!"

She's the Energizer Bunny of propaganda.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 12:38 PM
Response to Reply #102
209. She can use this -
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jul-19-10 01:29 AM
Response to Reply #102
211. It's gotta hurt to choke down this level of fail.
But what a show!
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
62. When they said "We'll fix it later!" I didn't realize they meant women's reproductive systems
I really should pin people down on the exact definition of the the word they're using so we can avoid this sort of unpleasantness.

And yeah, I don't even know what to say to this.

This is the Democratic party, right? Where does this put us?

War is good. Wall Street should be in charge. Gays should wait. And now, choice is bad.

Guys, he's not even a centrist at this point.
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libmom74 Donating Member (577 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:39 PM
Response to Reply #62
68. +10000
:argh:
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Starry Messenger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:22 PM
Response to Reply #62
105. Once the GBLT rights were tossed I knew that choice was screwed too.
For some reason they seem to go hand in hand when shoved off the cliff.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:55 PM
Response to Reply #62
140. no. Obama is not even a centrist at this point with these actions.
this is the plain truth.

Obama is not a centrist. He is acting like a reactionary right winger.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:20 PM
Response to Original message
63. K&R!!!
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
67. Insult on top of insult.
Betrayal on top of betrayal.
.
.
.
How much more? :shrug:
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:44 PM
Response to Original message
71. Simply stunning, isn't it? K&R
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:11 PM
Response to Reply #71
79. no, not at all, I never expected anything different from this bunch! In fact many of us older women
warned this would happen..and we were called all sorts of ugly things!

WTF would we know eh?

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suffragette Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
75. Looks like they really wanted the Stupak amendment,
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 01:02 PM by suffragette
so much so that they've backdoored it into the legislation after it couldn't be placed there by the front door method.

edited for typo
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
78. K&R
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scentopine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
80. When the centrists promised that this shitty health care bill would get better over time...
this is exactly what they meant. After all, the rich will always have access to reproductive services even services that are deemed to be "illegal".

And to the centrists, that is all that matters. The rich are rewarded with exceptions to common and civil law by way of wealth and privileged, and the non-rich are punished otherwise there would be no incentive to be rich.

This crazy centrist bullshit shit has to stop. Centrists are bleeding us dry.
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girl_interrupted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:31 PM
Response to Reply #80
82. What a slap in the face to women
I guess the only time they "need" us, is when we have to vote. Teachers, Unions, Women, Gays, I'm getting so discouraged on how we are all being treated.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:32 PM
Response to Reply #80
83. oh no they rule..and the rules are set up for them..didn't you know that? eom
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:28 PM
Response to Reply #80
125. Except they're not centrists
Single Payer is centrist. I don't know what this shit is.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:41 PM
Response to Reply #125
131. Me either..must send Agent Mike with decoder ring to find out..eom
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #125
141. smells like christo-fascism to me n/t
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
84. Did they have to jack up the bus so pregnant women would fit under it? K&
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placton Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #84
89. no room under the bus for any more Dems
gay/liberal/women/anti-war/you named it
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:47 PM
Response to Reply #84
90. Ladies ladies..the front of the bus is cooler in this heat..and the back has toilet smells that
are horrible this time of year..

However..when it turns cold ..say in November..the back stays warmer..although you still have to deal with the nasty smells from the on board toilets!

But since women are now so lovingly shit on ..the smell should be a handy reminder of that Nov election!
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Ignis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
88. K&R. This is reprehensible and indefensible.
:thumbsdown:
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Mushroom Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:09 PM
Response to Original message
92. This ban might be about women
not being cost-effective to make Obama's health care reform appear to be the "big fucking deal" according to Biden. The best bang for the buck.

:eyes:


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digidigido Donating Member (553 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:10 PM
Response to Original message
93. Hillary, Hillary, Hillary, ENOUGH is ENOUGH
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pleah Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:24 PM
Response to Original message
95. How many times do we have to get stabbed in the back?
K&R for Planned Parenthood.
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 02:32 PM
Response to Original message
96. this is fucking INSANE! Abortion rights are a matter of life and death in any case;
but for those whose lives are most immediately threatened by pregnancy, the law will now specifically prevent them from saving their own lives?

WTF???


I feel sick.
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obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:06 PM
Response to Original message
101. I think I've had about enough change now.
Can Obama and his admin just take a 2.5 year vacation?
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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #101
107. I agree.
We really don't want this administration "reforming" our Social Security and Medicare.
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ladywnch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
104. the bill for Stupack's vote finally came due!
I wondered what was promised/sold to get the HCR votes......now I know.
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JerseygirlCT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
110. Done nt
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orbitalman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
112. I don't like this, at ALL. nt
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
113. when do they pass out Burka's????????????? just wondering..eom
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:26 PM
Response to Reply #113
155. Should wear them on the ten million woman march to DC.
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Horse with no Name Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
116. No surprises here Sara
for me, or you.
I do know this.
I am done writing letters. I am done voting for the (D) unless they are WORTHY of my vote.
At least that will allow me to sleep at night.
Just like we said...Pied Piper.
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yodermon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
117. is this new policy?
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 05:00 PM by yodermon
where is the link to the new policy?

I've read most of the links and all I can find is a press release from HHS.
http://www.hhs.gov/news/press/2010pres/07/20100714d.htm...

Is there any actual new policy (HHS directive, EO, whatever), or even an interview?

E.g. This site (http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/blog/2010/07/15/obama-adm... ) gives a good explanation, with this quote:
"The Obama Administration responded immediately by imposing a total ban on abortion coverage in the pools that echoes the Stupak Amendment" but there is no link to the *policy* even quote from an admin. official that led them to believe this.

Am i missing something??

(on edit) :
Is this the offending statement, from the NPR article @ http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2010/07/14/128516960/ab... :
"Pennsylvania has not signed a contract yet to start operating their Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan," said HHS Spokeswoman Jenny Backus. And when they do, she added, "our contract that states are signing says clearly that we will be issuing guidance on the administration of Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan so they know they will have to live by our guidance per the contract" when it comes to abortion coverage.
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OhioBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 12:48 AM
Response to Reply #117
191. I'm wondering the same thing.
looks like a lot of outrage over mass e-mails/marketing. freakin' e-mails! I'm guessing we should send $20 RIGHT NOW to Planned Parenthood and the ACLU to help them fight this.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
118. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
sumpin Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #118
120. I see a few
And I'm just a lurker!
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #118
121. Lily Ledbetter! Lily Ledbetter!
Also, he put in motion thinking about putting out a survey that might or might not end Don't Ask Don't Tell!
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:30 PM
Response to Reply #121
126. I just hope Lily doesn't want to spend her equal pay on an abortion
Or a gay marriage.

Or healthcare.

Or a donation to an allegedly Democratic politician.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #121
143. A woman's sovereign right to make her own medical decisions
is the very foundation of democracy.

to discriminate against women because of medical procedures which only pertain to women is sexism. It is the most base and foul sexism because it coerces the state to enact laws that are based upon religious superstition, not medical fact.

I fully expect to hear Obama defend creationism next.
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Eyerish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:01 PM
Response to Original message
119. This is absolutely unbelieveable....
I don't know how much more of this I can take. K&R
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
122. 'Tell the Obama administration to reverse this decision' - I would, but he doesn't care what I think
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #122
124. Just tell him Goldman Sachs invested $10 bln in abortion clinics.
That should work.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 05:45 PM
Response to Reply #124
132. no kidding!! just spit my tea on the keyboard!!!!!!!! lol sad,pathetic, but LOL..
Edited on Sat Jul-17-10 05:45 PM by flyarm
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IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #124
142. K&R
:kick:
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iamthebandfanman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
146. Hey, we wanted 'change' ... n/t
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:22 PM
Response to Original message
147. The administration must have felt that it hadn't alienated enough constituencies
to ensure that Republicans took back the House.

Labor rank & file, teachers, environmentalists, scientists- better go backstab those pro-choice groups again, just to be sure.
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Peregrine Took Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #147
156. But haven't you heard him out on the stump lately? He's got his mojo back (!)
and he's droppin' his "g's" and using his old timey preacher cadence.

He's back, baby!!
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Hardrada Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 03:01 AM
Response to Reply #147
196. Plus gays, pacifists, the elderly, people wanting a liberal African-American Supreme Court Justice.
Edited on Sun Jul-18-10 03:02 AM by Hardrada
Wow, you just name about any Democratic base group and they are infuriated. Or, better, have figured out what's going on and are hanging it the fuck up politically.
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katandmoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
149. K&R. There is just no end to the betrayals.
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flvegan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 08:59 PM
Response to Original message
163. We're gonna need a MUCH bigger bus
It's getting far too crowded under this one.
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EmeraldCityGrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:21 PM
Response to Original message
168. Just to put a human face on this..



Marcelas Owens was the face of the signing of the Healthcare Bill. His mother died in 2007 due to a lack of healthcare.

The disease his mother had, Pulmonary Arterial Hypertension, is often fatal for pregnant woman. The three most promising drug treatments
cause birth defects. Had Marcelas's mother been afforded healthcare, Obama's recent decision could have been as fatal as her lack of
healthcare.

Some believe Obama treated Marcelas as a political prop and it is not my intention to do the same. I was just struck by the irony of this
latest decision for this one family had things turned out differently.

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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:45 PM
Response to Reply #168
172. please post this as an op with a link to this thread. thx. n/t
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #168
173. Please post seperately.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 10:33 PM
Response to Reply #168
179. +1
Do it.
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Prism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 12:14 AM
Response to Reply #168
189. What a total fucking disgrace.
That picture and story aren't just the icing on the cake, they're an entire frosted glacier that should crush everyone below it.

I'd say shame should be involved here, but we know that's not ever going to happen no matter what this administration does.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #189
190. 'an entire frosted glacier'
:applause:
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 03:45 AM
Response to Reply #190
199. Is it bad that I now want some cake?
:hide:
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-17-10 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
182. Policies for those nostalgic for the 1950's. nt
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
186. Jeez . . . Bush couldn't have gotten away with this . . .!!
The Obama administration has decided that no woman in the new
high-risk insurance pools will be allowed to obtain abortion
coverage beyond limited cases (rape, incest, endangering the
life of the woman). Not even if she pays for that coverage with
her own money.


Tell me this isn't fascism . . .




:eyes:
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defendandprotect Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 12:08 AM
Response to Original message
187. Thanks for posting this hard to believe and outrageous Obama decision . . .!!
Did the petition -- !!



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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 01:12 AM
Response to Original message
193. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator.
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 01:26 AM
Response to Original message
194. *******LINK SHOWS NO PROOF OF HHS WRITING, MORE OBAMA BASHING******
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Egnever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 03:21 AM
Response to Reply #194
197. Kind of funny from the link in the OP
HEALTH CARE REFORM
The health care reform law signed by President Obama represents the greatest single legislative advancement for womens health since Medicare and Medicaid were signed into law nearly 45 years ago.

Hundreds of thousands of Planned Parenthood supporters made health care reform a reality.

We launched our public campaign for health care reform immediately after the 2008 election by hosting health care reform house parties across the country. By the time the President signed the bill into law in March 2010, this campaign had become the most extensive coordinated lobbying, field, and communications effort in Planned Parenthoods history.

http://www.plannedparenthoodaction.org/positions/health...


Guess they needed money this month. Nothing like a good outrage email to get the money flowing.
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jgraz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 03:37 AM
Response to Reply #194
198. *******MAYBE MY CLEVER USE OF CAPS LOCK AND ASTERISKS WILL DISTRACT THEM FROM REALITY******
FAIL.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 06:30 AM
Response to Reply #194
200. you look pretty desperate to deny the truth
which is that Obama has chosen to conspire with religious fascists to take away rights to privacy and medical care for women.

this decision is not based upon any science.

it is based upon hatred for women.

that's what this VOLUNTARY decision to erode women's rights by Obama is about.

he had a choice.

he doesn't want women to have any in matters of life and death.

that's about as disgusting as it gets.
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flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-18-10 08:45 AM
Response to Reply #194
202. can you read? with or without CAPS? Perhaps you better do some reading eh?
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/print/13874

Obama Administration Applies Stupak Amendment to High Risk Pools
By Jessica Arons
Created Jul 15 2010 - 6:04pm

This week, a commotion <1> arose over the question of whether Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plans, also known as high risk pools <2>, can include abortion coverage. The Obama Administration responded immediately by imposing a total ban on abortion coverage in the pools that echoes the Stupak Amendment <3>, even though nothing in the law requires such action.

Women entering these plans are, by definition, those who have experienced serious medical conditionsso serious that insurers are unwilling to sell them insurance. In other words, those who get pregnant are already at a heightened risk for needing an abortion for health reasons when compared to the general population.

Pennsylvaniaapparently unintentionally <4>walked into the abortion debate by approving a program that potentially covered abortion. The plan <5> said no elective abortions would be covered, but referenced a statute that does not define the term elective and allows an abortion if it is deemed necessary by a physician based on all factors (physical, emotional, psychological, familial and the woman's age) relevant to the well-being of the woman. The only situation deemed categorically unnecessary by the statute is sex selection.

Rep. John Beohner and the National Right to Life Committee raised a stink, and the very next day, HHS Spokeswoman Jenny Backus had this to say <6>:

As is the case with FEHB plans currently, and with the Affordable Care Act and the President's related Executive Order more generally, in Pennsylvania and in all other states abortions will not be covered in the Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan (PCIP) except in the cases of rape or incest, or where the life of the woman would be endangered.

Our policy is the same for both state and federally run PCIP programs. We will reiterate this policy in guidance to those running the Pre-Existing Condition Insurance Plan at both the state and federal levels. The contracts to operate the Pre-existing Condition Insurance Plan include a requirement to follow all federal laws and guidance.

But heres the catch, nothing in federal law actually restricts the use of federal or state money for abortion in PCIPs.
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Bluebear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-22-10 02:36 AM
Response to Reply #202
214. +
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SkyDaddy7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jul-20-10 05:38 AM
Response to Original message
213. I have a question...
Of course I think an abortion should be covered like other medical procedures should be and the ONLY reason they are not is because America is far too religious...However, how can any woman be refused an abortion if she is paying for it out of her own pocket?

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