What about this argument for lowering the retirement age

[Tony_FLADEM]

Younger workers tend to be more productive than their older counterparts. If you lower the retirement age these younger workers would fill the jobs of the people that are newly retired. The resulting increase in productivity would lead to higher tax revenue as a result.

Thus, lowering the retirement age would result in higher tax revenues than if you forced people to continue working until a time of decreased productivity. You might even save money on medical costs because these retired people would be more healthy not having worked beyond a time that would have caused them to have health issues.

An increase in employment for younger people would also benefit the federal treasury because these people would be more likely to fulfill obligations to the federal government i.e. student loans and these people tend to spend more than older folks who prefer to save.


Do you think this argument would fly if it were ever made?

[RandomThoughts]

1. I think most of it is about motive.

Most of us think the motive is what is better for society, not all people think that way.

That is why it is hard to understand how some think.

There are arguements some make about population control, and why they think that is better, basically they are the Alexander Hamilton types that think people are evil and can not rule themselves, but need to be ruled.

From that control ideas like fear of many life securities sprout, since those fears can control some people.

Jefferson has the other side of that view, where he believes people are mostly good, and with education can self rule.

It really is the two sides of the argument, enforcement versus knowledge and education. Free will choices because people are mostly good, or police state where people have to be controlled.

It can even be extrapolated to some religious thoughts on the different forms of the sides of those ideas from many religions.

[napi21]

2. Thom Hartmann has a similar argument. He concentrates mostly on

lowering the retirement age would reduce unemployment & increase revenues. I don't know about the productivity part of your argument. That could easily cause a lot of pushback rom older workers who would feel you were slamming them.

I do think the earlier retirement age is a good thing, but I'm afraid you'd have a LOT of rguments against it because so many people are bitching about SS costing too much alaready and this plan would only increase that cost.

[notesdev]

3. I don't think your premise is correct

generally people get more productive as they gain experience, not less productive

[Tunkamerica]

4. It really depends on the job and the person

[BzaDem]

5. That argument doesn't work, because employers already use age discrimination to put younger workers

in jobs previously held by older workers. To the extent that some don't, this is often because the employer does not see a productivity differential (or does not believe the productivity differential would affect that particular job).

Assuming for a second for the sake of argument that you are correct that older workers are less productive, your argument would only work if lowering the retirement age caused some employers to higher younger workers in place of older workers. But because they already do this (age discrimination), lowering the age wouldn't necessarily increase productivity.

[jtuck004]

6. Excepting unions and public employment n.t.

[customerserviceguy]

7. Younger workers more productive?

If they keep to the task, perhaps. But in my experience, older workers have a better work ethic. That was just as true when I was in my twenties as it is today.

Younger workers usually have family responsibilities that older workers may not have, meaning they take less sick leave and family leave. Also, don't discount the fact that many older workers have acquired a great deal of common sense from decades in the workforce that it takes time to build up.

[The2ndWheel]

8. What's the downside?

There has to be one. All I see mentioned are positives. You'd have to give something up, that you want, to get a lower retirement age.

[KharmaTrain]

9. Let Retirement Be Voluntary...

My father worked almost up to his last days at 84...and was still very productive. Your premise that younger people are more "productive" makes me laugh. In my field, it's gone to hell primarily since all the older and more experienced people have been priced out by greedy owners who exploit young people. They work more hours for less pay but lack the experience and guidence that a younger person will get from an older one. In the end it's dragged down an entire industry cause there's now a constant turn-over of people...the moment they want more money, they're gone, too. Thus with mostly younger pups working these days, revenues are a shadow of what they once were. In short, you can't replace experience and stability that an older person brings.

As far as retirement, I know many approaching 65 and most still want to work. While there's that dream of being able to lay back and reap the rewards of years of work, but it also says to some that they're too old...not of any value any longer. Letting these people continue to work means they delay collecting until their 70...not drawing money from the system and still paying in.

In the end, the short term gain would mean long term pain as this country can use every able-bodied person...and they can and should work as long as they choose. Inversely, I'm all against raising the retirement age as those who've worked the 40 plus years should have the option to retire and should be able to cash in as promised. Raising the age is just another desperate move to save a bankrupt nation by punishing those who helped make it strong.

[old mark]

10. I really agree - but it should work both was...If you want to retire at say, 50, with some form

of Federal Government pension, you should be able to do so.

Not everyone is in love with their job-and not everyone desires to work till their late 80's, or is able to do so even if they do love their work.

I believe a person's life should be about freedom of choice in as many things as possible, without artificial limits set by anyone else.

I retired at age 59 and I am having the best time of my entire life right now...and I know people my age who can't stand to not be working.

We are all individuals, although we often forget that.


mark

[KharmaTrain]

12. Why Retirement Needs To Be Redefined...

I think we need to redefine retirement based on the person and the job. Someone who does a physical job should have a lower age compared to a white collar worker whose skills remain sharper longer. I'm not sure how you handle this equitably...either through a pension or by some form of (shudder) "means testing".

While I admire the concept of economic freedom...especially when one reaches their "golden years", that's an abstract in a world that demands definitives. Sadly we've seen our society spend now and pay later...and thus such "freedom" gets more expensive and restrictive. I'm a touch younger than you and know my share of those who got stuck in dead-end jobs...stable but they've spent years counting down to the time they can cash out. Some, such as teachers, are fortunate to have a strong union and solid pension, but a majority aren't...or, even worse, saw their pensions fleeced and had a lifetime of savings wiped out. So much for "freedom" and retirement. Those people are the ones who are about to get shafted if the retirement age is raised to 70...especially in an economic climate where many are being forced out in their 40s and 50s and are hard-pressed to find anything comprable.

Yes, we are all individuals, but we also have common needs and interests that tend to get shoved aside when such words as "freedom" are used. Seems the concept of shared responsibility doesn't stand a chance.

Cheers...

[old mark]

14. Point taken - I have also seen people offerred the "early retirement"

lump sum payment...one in particular stands out. he worked for a large US corporation and took a lump sum payout to "retire" at 40 or so with a little over 20 years service...
He was broke and looking for another "good" job within 4 or 5 years, and had a lot of trouble finding any job at that time...his skills were obsolete and he was getting "to old" to be hired.

There are a lot of things that should be addressed with this, but I'm basically against the current US system of work where people are comodities and near slaves...there is responsibility as well as blame to be shared by both the workers and the employers, as well as the government...


mark

[NNN0LHI]

11. 4 day work week for 5 days pay would fix the unemployment problem

We would immediately need 20% more workers.

UAW tried to set the pattern for that in 1979 because we knew what was coming.

Don

[Hannah Bell]

13. agree.

[sinkingfeeling]

15. Any proof that younger workers are more productive? They have less experience and make less

money. They pay less in taxes because of lower salaries. There have been many studies trying to link age and productivity, but they have varying conclusions. Manual workers see a decline in the speed of their workmanship as they age while those using cognitive and verbal skills may see increased productivity with age.

" Aubert and Crepon (2007) nd that productivity, defined as the average contribution
of particular age groups to the productivity of firms, increases with age until age 40 to
45 and then remains stable after this age. The results are stable across industries. They
also show that the age-productivity profile is similar to the age-labor cost profile which is
contradicting the overpayment of older workers. The evidence for what happens after 55
remains inconclusive due to data and precision issues."

http://ftp.iza.org/dp4765.pdf