Why Extend Unemployment

[iamjoy]

First, I'm not in favor of just cutting off benefits for people who need it, but I have to wonder if there is a better approach to just sending these folks money.

One of the problems for the long-term unemployed is that they become stigmatized and it is harder for them to get the few jobs out there.

So, instead of sending these people money, why not set up something so that a company that hires some one who was previously unemployed can get the amount of that person's unemployment rebated to them by government. In other words, say you are a small business owner and you hire a person who isn't working and drawing $150 a week in unemployment. You can then submit a claim when you file your payroll taxes to have that $150 (per week) show as taxes paid so that you owe less. Of course, certain restrictions would have to be applied to prevent companies hiring people part-time and then claiming the full credit, or hiring people for two months, firing them and then hiring another unemployed person...

The first one would be easy enough to check, but I'm not sure about the second. I also know that small businesses need money quickly and the longer they have to wait, the less likely it is any program will really help them.

What do you all think? Is my concept good, heartless or impractical?

[Oregone]

1. Don't they already do that type of stuff?

Happens up here north of the border. Some programs aim to subsidize the wages with employment insurance

The advantage is production can remain constant

[TomClash]

2. This sounds alot like HIRE

That new federal law allows the employer to receive double the payroll tax essentially.

Employment subsidies already exist in many states too.

They are not enough.

[CrownPrinceBandar]

3. Sounds like a situation that would force wages down to me....

A company hires a person at the rate of unemployment compensation instead of the prevailing wage for a position? Horrible idea.

Privatizing unemployment may be a good idea for business owners as they would get cut-rate labor, but it would be catastrophic for struggling laborers who would just get the shaft. And it would drive wages down across the board, which would hurt everybody.

[iamjoy]

13. Maybe

But long term unemployment forces wages down anyway, doesn't it?

[CrownPrinceBandar]

17. OK. How do you propose to lower cost-of-living to accomodate these lower wages?...

Because without consumer demand and folks injecting capital into the markets, the situation isn't going to improve.

[MyNameGoesHere]

4. Well "these people" think that is just peachy

But you did know this?

http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=220326,00.html

WASHINGTON — Two new tax benefits are now available to employers hiring workers who were previously unemployed or only working part time. These provisions are part of the Hiring Incentives to Restore Employment (HIRE) Act enacted into law today.

Employers who hire unemployed workers this year (after Feb. 3, 2010 and before Jan. 1, 2011) may qualify for a 6.2-percent payroll tax incentive, in effect exempting them from their share of Social Security taxes on wages paid to these workers after March 18, 2010. This reduced tax withholding will have no effect on the employee’s future Social Security benefits, and employers would still need to withhold the employee’s 6.2-percent share of Social Security taxes, as well as income taxes. The employer and employee’s shares of Medicare taxes would also still apply to these wages.

In addition, for each worker retained for at least a year, businesses may claim an additional general business tax credit, up to $1,000 per worker, when they file their 2011 income tax returns.

Maybe "these people" need to keep getting checks until the fucking job market comes back below say 7% unemployed. Until then why don't you stop thinking of unemployment as "these people" collecting an entitlement. You do understand that "these people" getting unemployment are getting it because in most cases they held a job for 18 months before being unemployed (that's my state yours may vary) and the employer kicked into the the tax for them?

[iamjoy]

7. yes, I Do Understand It

I also understand that the compensation is not nearly what a person was making when they were working, that looking for work is a full-time job and that some employers look negatively on people who are out of work even though in most cases it isn't the person's fault. So, being unemployed is an exhausting, frustrating and scary situation - to say the least.

Unemployment used to be for six months, right? Now it well beyond that because the economy is so lousy. I don't believe in trickle down economics because I think the people at the top just keep it for themselves. But maybe the right kind of tax incentives can work.

I understand that unemployment compensation - or pay out on the "insurance claim" - is better than nothing and may be the only thing putting food on the table or keeping a roof over some one's head (if it even does that much). Gads, I can't believe I need to outline that I understand that. I'm asking why we are settling for so little because I believe most people would rather work.

[Hannah Bell]

31. tax incentives don't create a market.

[CherokeeDem]

5. Listen Iamjoy....

I am not joy...I am unemployed. I have been looking for a position for nearly a year. Due to family circumstances, I cannot look outside of my current location. I made $70,000 as an HR professional, I have applied for positions that pay half of that, and I am told, I am too experienced, too qualified, made too much money, etc. I have excellent credentials and references, and I am very good at my profession.

Your little idea (there are programs similar that pay 1/2 wages to companies) is great if employers were really hiring but they aren't. They aren't and most likely won't hire back people at my level. We cost too much. Savings???? What savings?? Try living on unemployment and continue to pay car insurance, Cobra even with subsidies, and not have to dip and wipe out your savings. So...you want my ass and everyone else's on the street, paying for our welfare benefits?

Unemployment benefits only manage to allow us to survive...I am not living off the dole, watching TV...most of unemployed had to give up cable, or high on drugs. I can barely pay for the drugs that I need to live (serious high blood pressure...think being unemployed is helping??).

Well, I am happy you are so joyful, hope you never suffer what many of us are suffering...but not stop tying to fix things when you do not understand the situation.

[iamjoy]

8. This Is What I'm Saying

How are you supposed to live on unemployment if you've lost your insurance? What are you supposed to do when COBRA runs out? How long before those fortunate enough to start with savings run out of that safety net? Even if some one did well enough to have six months wages in the bank, that could be long gone by now.

You shouldn't have to move - the areas with the worst employment markets also have lousy housing markets, so that won't work - even if you didn't have a family situation.

If businesses aren't hiring, we need to give them the proper incentives to hire. What are those proper incentives?

When did I ever imply that people on unemployment were living off the dole?

[CTyankee]

19. proper incentives to hire

I'm not convinced this is entirely true. If they have a business that isn't doing well because nobody is able to buy what they are selling, then they don't need more staffing, they need more customers. Incentives to hire more staff won't solve that problem...

[Hawkowl]

34. Supply side "nonsense"

No offense, but you are approaching it from a right wing, business subsidy, supply-side approach. This is a failed strategy. The only "incentive" to hire someone is the incentive that the enterprise has too much business to handle, and they need to hire an extra body. If there isn't a prospect of increasing sales, then tax incentives, rebates, subsidies, simply don't matter. Tax incentives are simply give away bullshit that often due more harm than good.

A better solution would be for the government to simply employ these people directly as it did in the 1930's.

[Luminous Animal]

36. Proper incentives to hire are customers who have money in their pocket to buy...

their product. You can hand out tax incentives like candy but if nobody is buying then cash flow dries up.

[Uben]

6. If government stops spending in a recession.....

....it just remains in recession. We learned that lesson after the depression. You have to stimulate growth to get the economy going enough to give businesses the confidence to invest. Right now, corporations are sitting on $2.8 trillion in cash waiting for the green light. Republicans do not want that green light to come on under a democratic administration, so they are doing everything they can to keep it from happening. They can't stop it from happening, but they can delay it, so they are.
This sounds un-American......and it is! So, I now call all republicans un-American. They don't like it either! I don't give a fuck. I call em like I see em. It's their fault and I'm going to grind it in till they understand. Illegal immigrants are more American than the "just say no" motherfuckers trying to sabotage our government. If they don't like being un-American, they are gonna have to change their ways. Until then, they are all un-American scumbags worthy of spit and malice. Living in a right-wing bastion, I get into a lot of arguments. Fortunately, I am much more educated on politics than most, cuz I read DU! These buffoons only read the shit they get forwarded in emails.
I swear, some of these idiots still think Obama does not have a birth certificate. I don't have a problem calling them liars, either. I just tell them to prove me wrong. They can't. So, they are lying un-American pieces of shit in my book!

Damn, that felt good!

[KharmaTrain]

9. The Problem With Your Premise...

It's that the long-term unemployed get "stigmatized"...as if they are the problem with their unemployment status. I know too many who have been on "the beach" for a long time and are frustrated since a good number are over the age of 40 with limited opportunities and fewer options. Most are folks who were employed almost constantly for 20 plus years but saw their jobs get outsourced or consolidated and their skills aren't in demand. They're overlooked for younger people who will work longer hours for less and employers will shy away from someone with a family and an earnings history vs. someone without. Thus they run into brick walls, take whatever they can and still aren't making ends meet.

Unemployment is supposed to be a safety net...and to assist while a person seeks a new job, but when those jobs are limited, then what? Let their benefits run out and let them fend for themselves? We alraedy have millions who have "disappeared" from the roles...living off of family...and this group is growing. The remedy is to create jobs and opportunities.

[iamjoy]

11. Well, Yes

I suppose I should have emphasized that I didn't mean to just yank the safety net, but to do more to look at ways to create jobs through smart tax incentives. I should have written "instead of just" meaning that it shouldn't be the only thing we are doing rather than making it sound as if one should replace the other. I suppose I was already thinking that the Senate isn't going to extend the current benefits, so it was time to look at something else.

If the remedy is to create job opportunities, how do we do that?

[KharmaTrain]

14. The Big Question...

...and unfortunately one that this administration seems stymied on. The contradiction is while the government can't create jobs, it can encourage job growth and creation through tax breaks and low interest loans to small business, a works program to repair this country's aging infrastructure (not build new roads, fix the old ones), tax breaks for companies developing alternative energy to get products and new energy sources to market faster and then to reregulate banks and the "too big to fails" that would create competition and a more "free market".

That's just the first step of where I'd go...then we can look at the problems of outsourcing and imposing taxes or tarrifs on American companies that outsource and off-shore. Then there's cutting government costs...and not from education and services that cost the least and benefit the most, but the corporate welfare system that feeds on wars for profit and market manipulating.

Just a few thoughts...unfortunately I'm seeing stagnation...

Cheers...

[Luminous Animal]

32. No business creates jobs through tax incentives. They just don't.

They may take advantage of an available tax incentive but a business will not create a job unless it is a near zero sum arrangement.

[Coyote_Bandit]

10. I've long since given up hope of ever again holding a job

I do what I can to eliminate and reduce expenses and to bring in a few bucks here and there.

I'm single, female, older, well-educated with a responsible work history and apparently overqualified or "not a good fit" for every available job. I quit counting a couple of years ago when the number of rejection letters I had received topped a thousand. Nothing has improved in the time since. Unemployment insurance? The 12 or 16 weeks of unemployment I received have long since been depleted. Extended unemployment benefits? What the fuck is that? Some of us never received more than one tier of unemployment benefits. Because I do have some assets and a limited income I do not qualify for any kind of assistance. The only option I have is to deplete my lifetime accumulation of assets and retirement savings (which are not protected because my previous employers didn't offer 401k or other retirement plans which would be protected).

If you want to help me get a job then make it illegal for prospective employers to discriminate against unemployed folks in hiring. If you realy want to help, mandate a hiring preference for unemployed folks and provde a financial incentive. If you want me to earn a living wage then mandate that it be paid.

Haven't a clue what I'm going to do.

I'd leave this country in a heartbeat for opportunity elsewhere but I help care for some aging family members.

I've been trying to acquire new skills and even went back to school. Unfortunately that school program (at the largest tech school in the state) was terminated before I had an opportunity to complete the program. Paid my tuition and invested the time, effort and travel and got screwed. Apparently a perfectly legal scam. You want to help me then make these sorry bastards deliver what they promised or give me my money back and compensate me for my foregone effort and time.

I've considered self-employment but lack the capital and access to healthcare to make that work. Although I may be forced to risk everything I have on this option. You want to help me than mae it possible for me to have access to the capital and healthcare I need to start a busines, work and provide for myself.

I've considered trying to earn a livelihood writing on various topics of public interest. But there are long odds against doing so. Something more mundane with better odds would seem to be a better place to focus my efforts.

I've considered moving to the middle of frickin nowhere buying an acreage and the necessary animals, and equipment to become a subsistence farmer. That is what the generations before me did. At least then I wouldn't have to look for a job I'll never find. Healthcare shouldn't be an issue. After all, you can't lose something you don't have - and I haven't seen a fucking doctor in over 15 years.

I am one of our nation's throwaways. Any future success I have will be in spite of my government - a government that permits discrimination in hiring against unemployed folks, a government that favors corporations over flesh and blood citizens, a government that rewards businesses that send jobs offshore, a government that refuses to maintain the infrastructure necessary for a strong economy, a government that is completely and utterly out of touch with the needs of Main Street folks.

[undeterred]

12. Age discrimination is rampant and impossible to prove.

I think employers over a certain size should be required to have a mean age that is equivalent to that of the working population - and if theirs is too low there should be hefty fines.

[enlightenment]

16. I like that.

Won't ever happen, but I like it.

[area51]

18. +1 (n/t)

[Taitertots]

15. Don't extend unemployment, bring out another New Deal

Working with a private company seems like a perfect way to concentrate excessive amounts of money into the hands of the already rich.

[Hutzpa]

21. Working with a private company I hear you say???

what kind of BS is that? that private company is going to ask for commission from that amount being paid, right?
so why would you use a middle man instead of dealing directly with the individual.

This reminds me of Salli Mae charging commission on money that is supposed to be for students.

This theory of yours makes no sense and that is exactly the reason why the money never gets to whom it's suppose
to get to.

[Taitertots]

24. What are you talking about?

I already said it would concentrate more wealth in the hands of the already wealthy.

[Rex]

20. If you don't send money, people will lose their homes, cars etc..

then how will they get to work...if they ever find a job? What we need is honest help from politicians and not just some 'handout' to make them feel better.

[iamjoy]

26. That's the Dilemma

Extending unemployment benefits is the only thing keeping some people in their homes and putting food on their table. But is that really the best approach or is it just the minimal assistance? What's honest help?

[Rex]

27. No I think a much better approach would be real help, including

a job agency that would work to find someone a job. And the minimal assistance is better then none or can you think of better?

[Luminous Animal]

29. Guaranteed livable wage income. That is the honest help.

[Greyhound]

22. I understand where you are coming from, but it just won't work.

The likeliest outcome is that the companies that take advantage of your program set up a revolving door of subsidized servants.

The subsidies cannot be unlimited so eventually the subsidy for serf #1 ends and is summarily fired so that serf #2 can be brought in and so on. You end up with another permanent underclass that still has no future and no help.

[leftstreet]

23. Wait a minute. You advocate giving money to the owners, not the workers?

Okaaaaay..............

[Luminous Animal]

28. Crazy. Apparently, workers don't have to pay their bills or feed their children.

Nope, they just need to lose their homes and sit around and starve until some business, looking for a tax credit, hires them.

[LWolf]

25. Or why not extend unemployment, and focus any and all new

strategies and resources on job creation, without creating another layer in the middle?

[Hannah Bell]

30. business already got tax breaks for hiring in the stimulus package.

[Luminous Animal]

35. And that went swimmingly. Ooops, no it didn't... Instead it created an

entire new consultation business in order to advise businesses on how to take advantage of those tax credits for current employees. That is, how to reduce your current staff's income in order to qualify for the credits. How to fire people and rehire people at a lower wage in order to qualify for those credits. It didn't create new jobs, it only created lower wage jobs so that businesses could reap the benefits.

[DimplesinMI]

33. Yes, EXTEND unemployment

What are people suppose to use to find a job with, without it. Luck.....sorry, it takes gas or bus fare to get on the bus or car, to go to an interview. People need to eat, live and take care of bills. Without unemployment, this cannot be done.

@OP, try reading my articles to get a clue on what it is like to be a Unemployed Job Seeker, without money.....
http://www.examiner.com/x-48896-Detroit-Job-Search-Examiner