a quick fact about toilet paper...

[handmade34]

"If every household in the United States replaced just one roll of virgin fiber toilet paper (500 sheets) with 100% recycled ones, we could save 423,900 trees" (and tissues, paper towels, napkins, etc.)

Giant paper producers are forcing the destruction of our continent's most vibrant forests, and devastating the habitat for countless wildlife species in the process. Instead of making better use of materials such as post-consumer recycled fiber and agricultural residue to meet the escalating demand for toilet paper, paper towels and other disposable tissue products, these companies buy virgin pulp from suppliers that reach deep into North American forests for timber, from northern Canada to the southeastern United States. To help halt this destruction, NRDC and other conservation groups are pressuring the tissue products industry to change its practices and educating consumers about the choices they have when buying tissue paper products.

http://www.nrdc.org/land/forests/gtissue.asp
.
.
.
.
.
.
(or even better, use reusable toilet wipes)

[MrScorpio]

1. Bidets!

More bidets to save the trees!

[msongs]

3. ooops, more water waste lol nt

[MrScorpio]

5. Waste water can be processed

That's makes it better than trees

[CTyankee]

39. I got into big trouble by starting a thread extolling the virtues of bidets.

Some folks got good and mad at me.

All I was trying to say was that bidets could be a nice adjunct. Hotels in Europe have both toilets and bidets...but I usually just use the bidet for freshening when I travel, in between showers.

So be careful or the anti-bidet people will start in on you!

:hi:

[Maru Kitteh]

82. Anti-bidet people?

I'm trying to imagine how desolate one's life must be before they reduced to making an emotional investment against an ass fountain.

That's pretty sad right there.

[WCGreen]

89. It taint 'merican

[blm]

99. lol....clever

.

[Warren DeMontague]

92. The fear is, they might be confused with a drinking fountain.

That's my guess. :shrug:

[Liquorice]

9. Yes, bidets are FAR superior in every way. nt

[DesertFlower]

17. my friend had one.

she insisted i try it. i still had to use toilet paper. did i do something wrong?

[Liquorice]

21. Well you do need a small amount of

toilet paper after using a bidet--not that much though. Bidets are mainly so much better because they are much more hygienic IMO. There are also more expensive ones that have an air dryer so you don't need toilet paper at all.

This company makes really good bidets, including a model with a dryer.
http://luxebidet.com/

[DesertFlower]

24. thanks. the air dryer one sounds good.

my friend's was a separate unit.

[jobycom]

27. Meh. My cats already have a water bowl.

Just go when you are about to take a shower. :)

[moriah]

31. Ewww, poop in the shower?

GROSS! At least with a bidet the water contaminated by ass doesn't get on any other part of your body....

[WVRICK13]

32. No, Don't Poop

in the shower. Just thin about it. Toilet paper only smears the poop around on your bottom, then you wear it all day. I use a bidet and feel much cleaner.

[moriah]

33. Agreed

Just the whole idea of not worrying about a bidet or wiping, just showering after... :puke:

[jobycom]

62. Eat more fiber and less meat, and you won't have that problem.

:P

[Mimosa]

84. Oh that's BS

Have been a vegan and eaten meat. Eating meat, I also balanced with whole grains and vegs. No difference in waste if one eats healthy diet.

[CTyankee]

69. They're actually kinda nice. They refresh and it takes only minutes.

I think lots of Americans think of them as a joke because they are a bit nervous about them. but men and women can benefit from them in a very nice way.

[riderinthestorm]

71. DUers have to be the richest website participants ever. My bathroom isn't big enough

for the toilet, sink and shower let alone putting any other single thing in there. If you've got room in your bathroom for a bidet, I'm guessing you have enough cash to purchase recycled tp and save the water.

Maybe TMI, but my sink is wedged right next to the toilet so getting a lovely, wet, cool squash of tp is both refreshing, gets a body extra clean and with recycled tp, not too hard on the planet.

:shrug:

[Taverner]

122. Or better yet, like Asia use Super SoakASSers

The watergun is my fave

And much more clean!

[Touchdown]

139. In France, they wipe their asses with silk!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaU3bE7M2UA

[NYC_SKP]

2. K & R! nt

[iris27]

4. It would also save about 169 million gallons of water, and use

1.2 million cubic feet LESS landfill space.

We buy 7th Gen 100% recycled here at the iris household.

[handmade34]

42. thanks

...a fun subject to joke about but it is one of those things we don't consider until it becomes a serious problem

[Tunkamerica]

6. i don't always wipe my ass

but when i do i wipe my ass with dos equis boxes.

[Lifelong Protester]

8. ROFLMAO!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[cliffordu]

15. BWAHAHAHAH AHAAHHA HAHA

FUCKING POST OF THE MONTH...

:rofl:

[tblue]

19. LOL!!!!

truly funny

[Tunkamerica]

25. i actually made myself laugh

[femrap]

59. I'm still

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Luminous Animal]

86. Yep. That was a good one!

[Contrary1]

28. Thanks for doing your part, but the bigger question would be...

how many uses do you get from each box?

If it's only one, your response should have been "but when i do i wipe my ass with
uno equi box".

[underpants]

37. I wipe my ass..... in French

very funny

[HysteryDiagnosis]

46. Much better since they removed the staples.... n/t

[MilesColtrane]

51. "Stay stinky, my friends."

[fascisthunter]

64. lol

[msanthrope]

65. funniest damn post I've read on here in a long while...thank you. n/t

[blondeatlast]

68. Oh, shi...nola!

:rofl:

[Lifelong Protester]

7. Um, reusable toilet wipes??

I'll buy tissue from recycled sources (I use some 7th Generation stuff too, like Iris) but reusable toilet wipes might be where I draw the line....

[jberryhill]

10. Just hold it until you are at someone else's house

...and use the hand towels.

That's what I do.

[DesertFlower]

18. now that really made me laugh.

:rofl:

[tblue]

20. LOL!

Or the rug.

[jberryhill]

22. The rug is awesome! You can flip it upside down!

But, if you hang the towels right, especially guest towels, they won't know until you are long gone.

Sometimes I go back and check, and days later the towels are still hanging that way.

People should really wash those hand towels.

[tblue]

23. But if it's a rubber-backed rug, you better hope it's at least dark.

A white rug you can't turn over would be really embarrassing. Unless they have a dog or a toddler.

[jberryhill]

26. Yep - but if you are going to blame the dog

Then just shit on the carpet.

Unless it's one of those dogs that "scoots".

[JHB]

76. Same principle as cloth diapers, only wipe, not wear

It's not as wierd as it sounds at first, and can work better than TP.

Better still, combine these with a bidet. Less laundering.

[Warren DeMontague]

90. Who needs toilet paper? I just clean myself up in the mod hot tub.

That's probably why I'm not a mod. :shrug:

[doc03]

11. My Grandma's outhouse had a Sears and Roebuck catalog

she was into recycling way before it was cool.

[miscsoc]

12. I wipe my arse with the necks of swans

I recommend this

[MajorChode]

134. I use kittens because they are renewable

[Deep13]

13. I'm all for recycled ass wipe.

But bidets are simply a more civilized solution.

[Qutzupalotl]

14. Start your day without the morning paper.

http://www.usabidet.com

[DemoTex]

16. I use 100% recycled toilet paper here at the lookout.

I buy it myself. The USFS does supply 1-ply toilet paper that we call "John Wayne" wipes: it is rough, it is tough, and it don't take no shit off anybody!

Since there is no running water here, a bidet is out of the question. I won't even get into how I deal with hygiene issues like that. But suffice to say that you do what you have to do.

[era veteran]

29. Attached to the British Army in the '70's,( Queens Own

Highlanders) found that they used this wax TP, 3 sheets, that did not really work. After eating in their mess for a while I needed a better product. Maybe that's TMI. LOL

[conscious evolution]

35. Three sheets

My dad told me that when he was fighting in the phillipines in WW2 they were rationed three sheets per day.
One to wipe up.
One to wipe down
And one to polish.

Needless to say,in a war zone where most of the troops had dysentary or other such gastro problems three sheets didn't quite cut the mustard.

[MattBaggins]

109. "didn't quite cut the mustard"

just spread it around I bet.

[thelordofhell]

30. Just do what bears do

A bear walked up to a cute little fluffy white bunny rabbit and said, "Hello cute little fluffy white bunny rabbit. I was wondering, does poo stick to your fur?". The rabbit replied, "Why no sir, why do you ask?". Then the bear picked up the cute little fluffy white bunny rabbit and wiped his ass with it.

:rofl:

[Vattel]

34. "our continent's most vibrant forests?"

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for recycled paper, but doesn't most of the TP come from tree farms?

[handmade34]

41. some from tree farms

But not always the best solution... "These companies rely on virgin fiber from the Canadian boreal forest, as well as from the biologically sterile tree plantations that are quickly taking the place of species-rich U.S. forests, especially those in the Southeast" we can liken it to monocropping in agribusiness, it makes more money for the company but sure isn't good for the environment.

http://www.nrdc.org/land/forests/tissuepopups/1.html

[Vattel]

50. Thanks. That helps.

[Uben]

36. Quit using paper, endure the smell!

Okay, I'm not going there!

[JCMach1]

38. What about the TP paper mill jobs here in North America...

Am being sarcastic, but seriously what else does America make these days...?

[handmade34]

40. not much...

we are failing because we have been an economy based on production and consumerism and we don't produce but we sure consume a lot. The solutions will not come from trying to repeat or continue old habits and/or ways of doing things. Way overtime for some serious thinking outside of the box.

Paper mills use tremendous amounts of water and that is one resource we can't afford to squander or exploit.

[JCMach1]

49. But yeah recycling more of the fiber and techniques that use less

(or processed water) for production would be better.

However, from what I have read in recent years the American paper industry is also endangered. All the new plants with the more advanced technology have been built overseas.

[Taitertots]

43. I poop directly into a diaper genie

And wipe with my hand and a little water. 100% environmental, 85% disgusting.

Oh, and my diaper genie uses biodegradable bags so I can bury them deep in my backyard.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

45. hmmm, there's a DU rule about pic warnings....... I wonder.....

maybe it's time for poop warnings.






and, don't you dare even think about going for a double on that. :chastise:

[msanthrope]

67. Oh, no--that's 100% disgusting. n/t

[Taitertots]

80. Which part the diaper genie or using the hand? n/t

[nemo137]

112. Pic Related

[BlancheSplanchnik]

44. Marcal is cheap and 100% recycled (not an overpriced Green Product)

I'm trying to get the local food store out here in the boonies to get with the program.

In so many ways:

Unbearable music mix of bad 50's doo-wop and bad disco. Loudly. :wtf: (yeah it's all bad, but this satellite station they played seemed to specialize in the worst of the worst.) Ha ha, one time I griped loudly at the checkout when there were quite a few people around--just to get a read on general sentiments. Lo and behold, the cashiers and the 3 customers that heard me all chimed in to agree how awful it was, but they couldn't do anything about it (the cashiers, I mean)--the manager loves it. HOWEVER, your pal, Blanche, and her big mouth just couldn't stand it any longer and complained numerous times, including in person to tell the managers about my little informal polls and that this isn't your living room! The music is changed now. Low key country/rock mix. Phew! Thank gawd.

I bugged them to get organic peanut butter. Finally, they carry Smuckers now.

I bugged them to carry soymilk. Finally they got some. Had to bug them again. FINALLY now they've got organic unsweetened as well as Super-Candy-Stylee-Vanilla-Zoomy-Ultra-Super-Sugar-Zowie Flavor)

currently, my bug at them is local strawberries. Yeesh, here we are in the middle of strawberry time in Western NY, and their strawberries are trucked flown whatever in from Washington state.
:wtf: again.



I was just thinking the other day to get on them AGAIN about Marcal.


yeah, I went on a little rant :rant: :P

[handmade34]

48. good information

and we're all due a rant, and I really dislike bad music in public places (and I especially hate TVs in public places!)

[femrap]

60. but I like disco

music....I get my exercise dancing up and down the aisles with my cart.:bounce:

Have you ever tried Krema peanut butter? The only ingredient is peanuts. It must be kept in the fridge, but I really like it. It's made here in Columbus, OH and hasn't gone up in price for years...$1.99. I think it's the only decent thing that comes out of Columbus, OH.

I wonder if Aldi's brand of tp and paper towels are recyclable. (They own Trader Joe's, but much cheaper).

Keep ranting!

[CTyankee]

70. Hey, another Disco fan!

I cannot tell you how happy Disco makes me feel. I adore the Bee Gees, I love the clothes of the era, the whole style was just so wacky it was hard not to love it. Wish I could hear more of it nowadays...that and Motown and the Supremes...heard "You can't hurry love" at the butcher store last week and couldn't help singing along...

[handmade34]

73. lets hear it for the boy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnuYhFRYbAw

[CTyankee]

75. Cute!

[femrap]

81. It was great music to dance

to...I so miss Motown as well. It was a happy time. Pre-Raygun.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

77. I'd pay good money to see that...

:P

(I'll be wearing ear plugs, though)


I love some stuff from C+C Music Factory, Blackbox, and Snap...but I'm not sure if they're disco. I think they're more like "club", or something.

Oh, and Hammer.....LOVED his dancing....even had a favorite paiir of pants in the Hammeresque style. :D


We don't get that PB here, but the Wegman's store brand is DIVINE!!!! Just the peanuts, ma'am, nuffin but the peanuts

[femrap]

79. I love all of the

Donna Summer, Gloria Gaynor, Sylvester stuff....classic disco, I think it's referred to. I'd lose 5 lbs. each weekend when we'd go to Tracadero in San Francisco. This was back in the late '70's. Then Raygun happened and everyone started breaking their disco LPs because 'someone' decided it was all 'gay.' Oh...must have been the YMCA dudes. Now I can't remember their name. Geez.

There was a big event in Chicago where everyone broke their records and set them on fire, I think. Maybe at Wrigley Field or where the White Sox play. My memory isn't that great.

But I also love Rock n' Roll....The Beatles, BeeGees, The Who, Hendrix, Stones, Tom Petty, The Pretenders....As they used to say on American Bandstand: 'I like the beat and I can dance to it.' lol.

Do you think I could make a living charging tickets to watch me dance w/ my grocery cart???:woohoo: :rofl:

[BlancheSplanchnik]

107. the Village People!!!

love them!!


WOW, I had no idea raygun did that to the gay community... but I was not very current events aware at that time. Had other things in front of me!


As for music, I was a Tull and Led Zeppelin fan!!!




now, as to the matter of your dance moves and the profit motive..... um, well..... CERTAINLY! YES!! OF COURSE!!!



PS You live in San Fran??!! Ohhhh, I LOVELOVELOVE SF! Hung out there a couple times on long school breaks in the late 70's. I envy you!!!!!!!

[Catshrink]

47. So what do toilet paper and the Star Ship Enterprise have in common?

[Generic Brad]

52. I'm checking the Captain's log

Because the answer I found on Google was just plain silly.

[Catshrink]

55. The Google is your friend

:evilgrin:

[handmade34]

53. lol...

something about a planet and aliens

[Catshrink]

54. Yep -- an oldie but goody

in a pre-adolescent way.

[PfcHammer]

56. Uranus

:rofl:

[laughingliberal]

111. And Clingon. nt

:)

[alphafemale]

57. Reusable...? Um...no. reminds me of my ex suggesting I look into washable "monthly products."

He implored to me that it was a dreadful waste.

My immediate response?

"Sure. I'll do that if you'll wash them out."

The subject was never raised again.

[femrap]

61. Good one!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: But that's what my grandmother and everyone before her had to do.

[alphafemale]

63. I've always wondered if that was the real reason they had so many babies.

:rofl:

[On the Road]

58. I Agree -- There's Plenty of Low-Grade Recycled Paper

that could be used instead of cutting down trees. Wouldn't even hurt the paper industry, but it would have to be mandated or incented.

Plus, you don't want to ignore Tommy Toilet, do you?

[costahawk1987]

66. Fair enough...

Where can I buy it? Because I'll use a whole roll if necessary to avoid the dreaded skid marks.

[handmade34]

72. suggestions

Brand %recycled

365 (Whole Foods) 100
Ambiance 100
April Soft 100
Best Value 100
CVS Earth Essentials 100
Earth First 100
Earth Friendly 100
Fiesta 100
Green Forest 100
Marcal 100
Natural Value 100
Natures Choice 100
Pert 100
Seventh Generation 100
Small Steps 100
Sofpac 100
Trader Joe's 100

Charmin 0 to be avoided
Cottonelle 0 to be avoided

[mistertrickster]

74. In Muslim countries, people just use water, no paper. It does work. nt.

[alphafemale]

78. But I kind of like being able to use my left hand for "other things"

So it wouldn't work for me.

[mistertrickster]

97. Correct . . . they're fanatical about not using the left hand. nt

[apocalypsehow]

83. Wrong. That's an urban myth fostered by Westerner's. Please try again. n/t.

[Mimosa]

85. Explain, please. n/t

[apocalypsehow]

87. A college education with even a smattering of World History is your friend. Failing that, fall back

on Google.

And, BTW, you're welcome.

[Maru Kitteh]

93. A smattering of humility and a bit less pretentiousness

may be your friend. Surely you had a sociology class amidst that college education you were so blessed and privileged to receive. Presumably, your instructor spent at least a bit of time explaining how difficult it is for many people to attain a college education and how truly rare that opportunity is around the world. Maybe you were ditching that day with a hangover or something.

[apocalypsehow]

103. You didn't use Google and neither have you enrolled. How disappointing.

It would be better to take my heartfelt advice next time, instead of continuing to dig deeper.

In any event, unlike you I don't have to resort to personal attacks because I have the facts on my side. I have traveled extensively throughout Muslim countries in the Middle East, and in not a one of them did I encounter a lavatory that was sans rolls & rolls & rolls of toilet paper.

Please try again.

And, BTW, when I see juvenile personal attacks upon my posting persona here at DU, I don't erupt in rage: I laugh. It tells me I've won. Thanks. :hi:

[LanternWaste]

147. Yet if lacking the pretension and self-validation...

Yet if lacking the pretension and self-validation, and gaining a modicum of humility I fear the result would be quite a few people simply "poofing" out of existence.

[Taitertots]

88. Hundreds of millions of people around the world don't use toilets at all

There are more mobile phones in India than toilets. 31% have access to improved sanitation.
http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=34369&Cr=mdg&Cr1

I know that is India, not a majority muslim country. But it is not a myth that hundreds of millions, if not billions of people do use their hands and water.

[Warren DeMontague]

91. The moon people don't even go to the bathroom in the first place!

That's how transcendentally advanced THEY are.

[apocalypsehow]

100. That is a consequence of their poverty, not their religion. And the assertion that all Muslims don't

know what toilet paper is, which was the assertion I was originally refuting, is indeed a myth. A Western myth that the original poster of that assertion was making in order to score some kind of dreary point about how if the Muslims could get by without using toilet paper, we could too. The original assertion being proven counter-factual, I now await the next irrelevancy/personal attack.

[Taitertots]

104. Where did anyone say that?

I'm confused, why are you intentionally misstating what mistertrickster has said? No one said every muslim doesn't know what toilet paper is. All you have "refuted" is a straw man that you simply invented. Follow the post tree back and quote where someone said that.

That doesn't change the fact that hundreds of millions, if not billions of people are getting by using their hands. It doesn't change the fact that people in muslim countries are using their hands, not ALL of them but millions of them. We absolutely could get by using our hands, just use a little soap afterward.

[apocalypsehow]

108. Here's some help for yah: " In Muslim countries, people just use water, no paper."

Post by:

mistertrickster, Post #74, this thread.

"I'm confused"

Obviously. But now you've been straightened out. Have a good evening.

[Taitertots]

115. No where in that statement does it say that all muslims don't know what toilet paper is

So why would you make obviously incorrect statements?

No where in that statement does it say that ALL muslims don't use toilet paper.

So why would you make statements you know are incorrect?

[apocalypsehow]

116. Asked & answered. Continuing to pretend you can't see the words on the screen in front of you does

not make them go away.

Please try again. Read slower this time. Or better. Or something. :thumbsup:

[Taitertots]

120. Wow, you just can't help telling obvious lies can you

"And the assertion that all Muslims don't know what toilet paper is, which was the assertion I was originally refuting" No one has made this claim.

"In Muslim countries, people just use water, no paper" Is the claim that has been made. Please point to the spot within this statement where the claim is made that they don't know what toilet paper is. Please point to the spot within this statement where the claim is made that "ALL" muslim people do this.

I'm done because you seem more interested in snark and bullshit than actually supporting the obvious lies you have been called out for making.

[apocalypsehow]

123. Asked & answered. Continuing to pretend you can't see the words on the screen in front of you does

not make them go away.

"I'm done because you"

You're done because I am correct, despite your snarling about non-existent "obvious lies" even as you beat a hasty retreat from this one-sided debate. Have a good evening. :hi:

[apocalypsehow]

125. BTW, the original poster of that Western myth has now conceded my point:

"121. Okay, you're correct"

Your apology & retraction is accepted in advance. :toast:

[mistertrickster]

129. I of course meant if one interprets the statement as ALL Muslim countries, then you'd be correct.

Which I didn't mean.

But you already knew that.

Doing a "victory dance" on the forty yard line, eh?

That's kinda sad.

[apocalypsehow]

140. Nah. What's "kinda sad" is one who posts myths, gets called on it, then takes up tons of time to

explain why his plain words didn't really mean what they actually said when he posted them.

But have fun twisting your own above-typed words into more posted pretzels. :hi:

[Taitertots]

150. You are too late, they have already hallucinated that you said that

They even hallucinated that you agreed with them about it.

[closeupready]

95. Um, and you're posting from Kansas, lol? Toto, you're back in Kansas, but you don't

have to post like you are, so please stop.

[apocalypsehow]

98. Typical gambit: when you don't have the facts, ridicule the opponents geographical location.

But I'm not posting from Kansas, that's where I am originally from. What, pray tell, does someone "posting from Kansas" post like, exactly, while we're on the topic? :shrug:

Not that it makes one smidgen of a difference: the assertion that Muslims uniformly use their water and hands is a Western myth, period. Unlike you, I've actually traveled in the Middle East, and never once did I see any public or private lavatory any different than one you would see in your own home, or a McDonald's.

[mistertrickster]

96. You should tell it to the Malays in Malaysia then . . . where I lived for three years.

They've been doing it according to the "Western myth."

[apocalypsehow]

101. Delete *dupe*. n/t.

[apocalypsehow]

102. I don't have to tell it to anyone, anywhere. The assertion that all Muslims use water and their hand

is simply untrue. It's a Western myth, period.

[laughingliberal]

114. I don't see where mistertrickster said "all" Muslims use water & their hand. Are you saying none do?

[apocalypsehow]

117. Another cry out for much needed reply-location assistance - happy to oblige:

"In Muslim countries, people just use water, no paper"

That's reply #74, if you just scroll up. If you still can't find it, I'll be happy to provide a direct link. :thumbsup:

[laughingliberal]

130. I saw the post. I didn't see where it said 'all' Muslim people use water and their hands.

It doesn't say that in your copy and paste of it, either.

[apocalypsehow]

144. Then scroll up and give the reading of that post another go. You are either willfully ignoring the

plain meaning of the words in front of you, or unable to understand same. Either, or.

Please try again.

[apocalypsehow]

118. "Are you saying none do?" - I am saying putting words in other peoples mouths, or keyboards as the

case may be, is a transparent attempt to shift the terms of the debate to something altogether different. Laughable stuff.

What I did say is the statement, made by the poster above, that "In Muslim countries, people just use water, no paper" is a Western myth. And it is.

Why don't you stick to what I actually typed, and go from there? I think we both know why, but never mind.

In any event, please try again.

[mistertrickster]

121. Okay, you're correct. I don't know how ALL 1 billion Muslims do it. But the Muslims

I lived with used water.

Also, in Bahrain, Senegal, Indonesia, where I visited.

Don't know about Turkey . . .

So, I think it's fair to say that "in SOME Muslim countries, they use water."

That's definitely not a myth.

[apocalypsehow]

124. Of course I'm correct. It's a Western myth that it does no one any good to continue to perpetuate.

But now you're educated on the matter, and I appreciate your concession. Have a good evening. :thumbsup:

[mistertrickster]

126. Hehehe . . .

I quit playing the equivocation game a long time ago. Posting here is not a game for me in which I seek to "best" my fellow political liberals.

I don't claim to know everything like some apparently do, but I know what I saw living with Muslims in a Muslim country. I shared that information on a relevant post.

If it's a "western myth" that Muslims use water instead of toilet paper, then I saw that myth in action every day for three years . . .

I just know what I lived through.

[mistertrickster]

128. William James and the famous squirrel story:

SOME YEARS AGO, being with a camping party in the mountains, I returned from a solitary ramble to find every one engaged in a ferocious metaphysical dispute. The corpus of the dispute was a squirrel – a live squirrel supposed to be clinging to one side of a tree-trunk; while over against the tree’s opposite side a human being was imagined to stand.

This human witness tries to get sight of the squirrel by moving rapidly round the tree, but no matter how fast he goes, the squirrel moves as fast in the opposite direction, and always keeps the tree between himself and the man, so that never a glimpse of him is caught. The resultant metaphysical problem now is this: Does the man go round the squirrel or not? He goes round the tree, sure enough, and the squirrel is on the tree; but does he go round the squirrel?

In the unlimited leisure of the wilderness, discussion had been worn threadbare. Every one had taken sides, and was obstinate; and the numbers on both sides were even. Each side, when I appeared therefore appealed to me to make it a majority. Mindful of the scholastic adage that whenever you meet a contradiction you must make a distinction, I immediately sought and found one, as follows: “Which party is right?”

I said, “it depends on what you practically mean by ‘going round’ the squirrel. If you mean passing from the north of him to the east, then to the south, then to the west, and then to the north of him again, obviously the man does go round him, for he occupies these successive positions. But if on the contrary you mean being first in front of him, then on the right of him, then behind him, then on his left, and finally in front again, it is quite as obvious that the man fails to go round him, for by the compensating movements the squirrel makes, he keeps his belly turned towards the man all the time, and his back turned away. Make the distinction, and there is no occasion for any farther dispute. You are both right and both wrong according as you conceive the verb ‘to go round’ in one practical fashion or the other.”

******

A number of folks here at DU like to argue about squirrels going round trees.

It's not my bag, man.

[apocalypsehow]

142. You have conceded that your assertion of a Western myth regarding Muslim countries - a condescending

one, at that - was false.

Why do you persist in this feeble attempt to salvage some scrap of your credibility by posting rambling metaphors about trees & squirrels? That's truly pitiful. And very telling.

[laughingliberal]

131. Just a request for clarification. nt

[mistertrickster]

133. It's like Americans who tell me what Japan is like. And I lived there for two years, heigh ho. nt

[laughingliberal]

136. Yes. nt

[apocalypsehow]

141. No, It was not a "request for clarification": it was precisely what I stated it was above.

Please go re-read your own posted words, then try again.

[laughingliberal]

149. You added "all."I don't see where mistertrickster claimed 'all' Muslims use water & hands

You added that in your response. I asked if it was your contention that none do. You didn't answer that direct question. It's of no consequence to me except to wonder why you put words in another poster's mouth that were not there.

[apocalypsehow]

143. Except, no one told you what "Japan" is like: your myth about Muslim countries and their supposed

primitive latrine habits was simply shown to be false. You are now deeply-engaged in a species of special pleading regarding your own original false assertion that is laughable at best and pitiful at worst.

But keep digging - most of us will keep snickering.

[mistertrickster]

148. Last post on this subject--I never said that using water was "primitive."

When I was in Malaysia, I got used to a number of customs that differed from ours. For instance, I often wore a sarong instead of pants, I greeted people with "Assalam Malakum" instead of hello, I ate nasi lemak and ikan bilis for breakfast.

The bathrooms used primarily by Malays had small plastic water bottles instead of toilet paper. I got used to using this method and found it somewhat superior to our method.

Strangely, whenever I tell Americans about it, they react exactly as you do--"THAT'S PRIMITIVE!"

It's actually not primitive and not gross and not a myth. It's not "condescending" to report what I saw and lived. The perception that this practice is bad, and that it's condescending to mention it is entirely yours.

But if you want to call it "a myth" because you stayed in some western style hotels in some place like Israel or Lebanon that only had toilet paper, I can't stop you.

But you're still wrong.

[closeupready]

94. Shopped for 100% recycled paper products last week; gosh it was hard to find them.

Seems like all the paper product manufacturers eschew recycled.

[nemo137]

113. Upthread, someone mentions Marcal as beeing 100% recycled

which I think you can find at Aldi (although I could be wrong), and maybe other places. I know that the dorm I lived in in college had 100% recycled, thanks to a club that lobbied for it.

I'm sure it's out there, but I agree that it'd be nice if there were more of it.

[Hubert Flottz]

105. I tried to recycle some, but the flies carried it off the clothesline...

before it got dried out.

[Lucian]

106. Wait...reusable toilet wipes?

Sounds nasty. I don't think I want to wipe my ass with someone else's brown streaks already on the wipe.

[zotfreep]

110. Squares of TP

Cheryl Crow recommends that we use only one square to wipe with....

However, I can't ever think that that is enough. 4-6 squares is what you should shoot for.

[a la izquierda]

119. we use 100% recycled toilet paper and paper towels.

a little bit more expensive, but most definitely worth it.

[Robb]

127. Less TP use = fewer jobs.

I'm only sort of kidding. :D

[MajorChode]

132. Gilbert Godfrey joke

Starts at 4:55
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=22GI3xz3ryg

[Touchdown]

137. Self Del... wrong place!

Good joke though. Just wish it wasn't Godfrey.

[Initech]

135. Maybe we should switch to the three sea shell system like in that movie Demolition Man

[Touchdown]

138. LOL! You guys don't know how to use the 3 seashells!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBI8uCKi2lI

[Crystal Clarity]

145. Timber Harvesting beats Tourism as Maine's #1 Industry

And yet we are still the most heavily forested state in the nation due to mandated sustainable forestry practices. Trees are no different then any other crop to us therefore RENEWABLE. Basically no different then the farming of corn, wheat, or soy. You harvest then replant. We make all sorts of paper products including TP.

If sustainable forestry is not being practiced in other places then I can understand the desire to do something about it. Maybe boycott paper products from areas where clear-cutting and other bad forest practices are occurring?

Message from the State Forester
Known as the Pine Tree State, Maine is the most heavily forested state in the nation with more than 17.7 million acres or nearly 90% of our land base covered with trees. The forest helps define our Maine "Way of Life," shaping the state's economy and providing a backdrop for forest-related recreation and tourism.

http://www.maine.gov/doc/mfs/forester.htm

BTW- I was hesitant to post this based on the hilarity going on ^up-thread^ (pretty funny stuff) however the misconception that Timber Harvesting is ALWAYS bad needs to be addressed. Thousands of jobs up here depend on it.

[ThomThom]

146. and if we had hemp we could save all those trees

just a thought