FB discussion with conservative idiot.

[Deep13]

Here's a discussion I had on Facebook with a hugh moran that I want to share.

The OP is a friend of mine in real life.

OP WALL POST: Today is Ringo Starr's 70th birthday. I don't know if he feels old, but I know that when I heard that, I sure did. Anyway, at 12 noon he wants his fans to make a peace sign and say out loud "peace and love." Hey, it sounds corny, but I think I will do it, if only to see the reaction on the faces of people around me.

(many posts)

HUGH MORAN: The early Beatles were good, then they tried to tell everybody else how to live,"Imagine no possesions ", etc. But, McCartney is now a Billionaire and they all fought to hang on to what was" Theirs." Imagine that. Then they promoted drug use and unfamiliar religions and many lives were altered / ruined by their promotions. In the end, they will all die WITH their possesions. Nice love songs, bad approach to living.

DEEP13: Yeah, that was one song, dude, and it wasn't written by Ringo. Wow. Anyway, you gottah pay your dues, if you want to sing the blues. You know it don't come easy.

DEEP13: "In the end, they will all die WITH their possesions." Half of them are still alive. (I mistakenly read it as 'they all died...') And how does one die with his possessions? I've never seen an armored car following a hearse. Anyway, Lennon was shot to death on the street with just the clothes on his back.


P.M. from HUGH MORAN: First off, my name isn't dude. Second, no mention was made about song writing, only the words of a song, sung by a group he is most connected to. Third, being on PBS is a means to sell product and PBS to rake in money that they don't account for, along with promoting political views that are not always consistent with the majority of tax paying Americans. Last, why is a British citizen in America on his birthday ? It must be cheaper to live here than pay the taxes in England

REPLY from DEEP13: I don't know why you're talking about PBS. (OP)'s original comment was on Ringo Starr. I have no idea why or if he is here (not that any of those coastal big cities is really 'here'). I guess you just can't believe that someone might just like being in America. We did invent rock-n-roll, you know.

I don't recall either PBS or NPR taking political positions. Anyway, their job as closest thing we have to impartial broadcast media is to inform, and not merely to parrot what people already think. If we are to learn, we need to listen to ideas we have not heard before and ones that are contrary to preconceptions. Avoidance of cognitive dissonance is no basis for a world view. If the information broadcast by those who gather and digest information for the benefit of the public (as opposed to media giants or advertisers) is consistently contrary to ones own views, then that ought to tell him something.

Frankly, I find it disheartening to read or hear anyone defend the anti-intellectualism (pro-ignorance) that has become the hallmark of 21st century American society. This country was founded in large measure on the assumption one the enlightenment ideal that our citizens would be educated and informed. Sadly, that is not the case and we all suffer for it.

It is cheaper to live here, just as it's cheaper to live here in Ohio than it is back home in New England. (You get what you pay for.) Having spent 3 weeks in London while in law school I know that to be true. I agree that people as rich as Ringo Starr have an unfair advantage under our tax system. Over the past 30 years or so, the tax burden has shifted from the wealthy to the middle and lower classes. (I mean the whole tax burden, not just Fed. income.) The whole reason we have a democracy is to prevent a permanent wealth-based aristocracy from forming. And yet ordinary people insist on promoting the interests of the parasitic upper class at the expense of there own families, friends and themselves.

Anyway, it was nice chatting with you. Drop in any time. (I only check FB in the evening.)

[Common Sense Party]

1. Guy's an idiot. Uh, Sparky...?

"only the words of a song, sung by a group he is most connected to"

The Beatles didn't sing "Imagine." John Lennon did. Solo.

The guy may want to brush up on his music trivia.

[droidamus2]

2. A pet peeve

I get really irritated when I see people use that phrase 'tax paying Americans'. Like paying your damn taxes somehow makes you more of a citizen or somehow special or gives you more of a right to have your say.

[Deep13]

3. I noticed that too.

And I share your irritation. Citizenship is not a property right, it's a personal right of birth or naturalization. Someone without a nickle to his or her name has the same basic rights as Bill Gates.

[Deep13]

4. his responses this morning

I tried to reply. The panel was not big enough, BUT, The Rock and Roll HOF is here for a reason, the term and music style WAS created here.
As for wealth based Democracy ? If you are a lawyer, you are part of it. Pro anything is about how much can I get. Court Houses are'nt in tents, but in VERY BIG, expensive buildings. I don't see the homeless hiring. Take a look at what you wrote and remember there are 2 sides, that's why you are a lawyer, if you are. If not, is that your plan ?
Best Wishes

I mis-read your note. I thought you said we DIDN'T on RnR. Sorry. As to Business, remember, PBS and NPR rely on money from the average Joe AND advertising. They also broadcast on devices made by companies on the stock market. The PBS comment I made was because his post said that Starr was going to broadcast on PBS, a gift to the PEOPLE. Right. Everything the people of NPR and PBS do requires the use of things in their everyday life, made by the companies they bad mouth. BTW, broadcasting and reception of their information requires the use of electricity, made with nuclear fissin,coal or other fossil fuel. Shut off the power ? No more PBS, unless they hook up a bicycle generator.

[hobbit709]

5. Trying to teach a pig to sing wastes your time and annoys the pig.

[Deep13]

6. Yeah, but that does not prevent me from singing. nt

[gizmonic]

7. Sweetie, I saw that post...man, what a turd in the punchbowl he is.

:dunce:

[Deep13]

8. Yup.

If you don't like Ringo, then just move on! Teabaggers think everything is about them.

[asdjrocky]

9. The Beatles did not record Imagine.

It was a song from Lennon's solo album, I think it was on Working Class Hero.

Your friend is not only an idiot, but he doesn't know his music trivia.

[Deep13]

10. I'm going to point that out when I respond.

His logic is Ringo = Beatles = Lennon = Imagine, therefore Ringo = Imagine.

I think he's been spending too much time in his own yellow submarine of an echo chamber.

[asdjrocky]

11. Thanks.

This kind of shit drives me nuts. I'm certain he thinks Jeffro Tull and Lynyrd Skynard are actual people.

[Common Sense Party]

13. They are. They're friends with that Floyd guy.

"By the way, which one is Pink?"

[Deep13]

12. My 7/8 evening response to his morning PM.

I may have given you the wrong impression. I'm not suggesting that people should have no posessions. I would be a rank hypocrit if I did that. Rather, the song "Imagine" bids the listener to imagine it. Others, the writers of the New Testament, for example, have urged its readers to sell their possessions and give the money to the poor and have claimed that walking camels through needles is easier than salvation while rich. As I said, I do not espouse that kind of meager existence. So regarding your comments about buildings, radios and electricity, I was not implying such things should not exist.

Anyway, I remembered since yesterday that Imagine was written and performed by Lennon on his own after the Beatles dissolved. So Ringo Starr didn't have anything to do with it.

I reject the idea that professionals are interested in nothing more than a selfish, childish grab for resources. While many of them try to and do make a good living, I doubt many of them consider it the sole aim of their professions.

There is only one set of objective facts. The key is to find out what they are and what the practical significance of them is. As far as competing interests regarding those facts, there are often several sides. I'm on the side of ordinary people who go to work and pay their taxes (as Nixon put it.) That means I'm against the accumulation of wealth in a tiny, parasitic aristocracy. We don't call them "nobles" anymore, but that's what they are because of the resources they control. Their "side" has had their way for 30 years.

I also reject the false dichotomy of either letting the ultrarich have their way or else we become a Stalinist state. We can have necessary reforms to make the system we already have act in a more egalitarian manner. If Americans are the hardest-working people in the world (and we are), it's time we had something to show for it instead of laboring for the profits of an elite few.

As far as the homeless hiring, that is a silly thing to say. The real question is why isn't anyone hiring them. The answer is two-fold. The first is that they are simply not needed. We are at a point where so much labor has been either automated or outsourced to countries with no standards that the economy can do well and corporate profits attained without paying very many American workers. The second reason is that many of these folks are mentally ill and our society's response to mental illness is to through them on the street or send them to prison. In the meantime, the extremely rich keep accumulating wealth that the rest of us create with our labor.

I did not notice any reference to PBS in the Judge's post, so I'll just take your word for that. Calling his concert a gift for the people is a big self-congratulatory. Having heard Ringo sing, I doubt it will be a gift for anyone. There's a reason the Beatles stuck him in the back and limited his lead singing to novelty songs like Yellow Submarine. (I was very interested in the Beatles as a teenager in the 1980s. Being the '80s, the radio was pretty much a desert of vapid, talentless hacks.)

Yes, because we have abandoned our commitment to a truly public broadcast service (thanks Strickland!), PBS & NPR are now beholding not only to their subscribers, but to corporate hand-outs too. Unfortunately their programming has suffered because of it. Every cooking show you see on PBS is an effort to save money because they are cheap to produce.

Not sure what your point is. If you mean corporate money biases their reporting, it does, though not as badly as commercial media. The basic purpose of PBS/NPR remains public information as opposed to simply using the public airways to deliver an audience to advertisers. Their scholarship in their programming is still the best on TV/radio. The History Channel, by contrast, is pathetic in its efforts. If you mean that they somehow owe these companies some deference, you're wrong. The truth is what it is. If that truth is that a corporation acted irresponsibly, immorally or even criminally (perish the thought!), then that is what they ought to report.