DU is wrong again -- man pictured jumping on burning cop car wasn't an agent provocateur

[Clintonista2]

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/torontog20summit/article/829587--the-fire-the-accused-and-the-cop?bn=1

Police cruiser 3251 spent its final moments in the company of two very different men: the officer who drove it and the mischief-maker accused of torching it.

For many, the burning cruiser has become a symbol for Saturday’s trail of destruction across Toronto’s downtown core. At least three police vehicles were set ablaze by breakaway protesters, one belonging to Staff Sgt. Graham Queen, a father of two.

== ==

The following day, 26-year-old Kirk Warrington appeared in bail court, accused of setting Toronto police car 3251 on fire during the height of violent demonstrations on Queen St. He was charged with five counts of mischief, including impersonating a police sergeant and arson. The charges were among the most serious laid against more than 200 demonstrators who appeared in bail court Sunday. Warrington is still in custody.

Star photographer Steve Russell took a picture of Warrington standing on top of a police cruiser marked 3251 in front of 415 Queen St. W.

In court, Warrington admitted to climbing onto the car and lighting himself on fire with a piece of burning paper at the urging of the crowd. Warrington tucked the burning paper under his jacket before it fell onto the windshield; that’s when he noticed flames inside the car.

Warrington described “big billowing smoke coming out of me.” He also said he called for water and help but people around him said, “No, let it burn, let it burn.”

== == ==

I have been vindicated.

[dionysus]

1. .

:popcorn:

[frazzled]

2. Maybe they meant the lingerie company?

http://www.agentprovocateur.com/

[rug]

16. Thanks for the link.

[spanone]

3. who is du?

all of du?

half of du?

some of du?

[Clintonista2]

4. The vast majority of people claiming that he was yesterday

[Javaman]

13. I didn't even know about it, does that include me in the "vast" part?

:shrug:

[Posteritatis]

12. The "all violent protesters ever are provocateurs" meme is effectively all of DU. (nt)

[H2O Man]

30. Good question.

Is the person who posted the OP part of DU?

[zeemike]

5. agent provocateur do not break the law or do acts of violence.

they get others to break the law and do acts of violenence....that is the whole point.

[rfranklin]

6. Good for you...but there are often cops infiltrating these groups...

so it isn't outlandish to draw that conclusion. I had first hand experience of police infiltration back in the 1960's. Whatever for? Because they want action, and if they have to create it, they just might.

[Clintonista2]

7. Whatever for? Did you see the black bloc violence in toronto yesterday?

The "the police are behind it all!" conspiracy theories are getting tiring, especially when they're disproven time and time again.

[hobbit709]

8. Seeing conspiracies all the time is just as stupid

as never seeing conspiracies.

[Clintonista2]

9. Like I said yesterday, I'm open to the possibility of a handful of police provocateurs

But when people start claiming that every single perpetrator of violence is an undercover police agent provocateur, it gets a little ridiculous.

[Posteritatis]

15. Ever notice that the police seem to carefully pick and choose which ones to disrupt, too?

I mean, if I were the Secretary of Consipratorial Evil In Charge Of Disrupting The Peoples' Right To Protest By Slipping Malevolent Spies Into their Midst, I'm pretty sure those gigantic antiwar demos would have been a little less pleasant than they were, among other such things.

[Radical Activist]

10. It looks like this person denied setting the car on fire.

"Crown prosecutor Meghan Scott alleges Warrington impersonated a police officer and used the cruiser’s radio to broadcast a sergeant was in distress. She also said undercover police on the scene photographed the mayhem."

Why didn't the undercovers do more than take pictures?

[Clintonista2]

11. Looks like he didn't

In court, Warrington admitted to climbing onto the car and lighting himself on fire with a piece of burning paper at the urging of the crowd. Warrington tucked the burning paper under his jacket before it fell onto the windshield; that’s when he noticed flames inside the car.

[Radical Activist]

14. A burning piece of paper falling on a car windshield doesn't start a fire INSIDE that car.

Use your critical reading skills. This is common sense.

Not to mention that later in the article you linked the person says he's being used as a scapegoat because he was visible and didn't start the fire.

[Clintonista2]

21. The windshield was broken. You know -- the one HE broke.

[Forkboy]

17. I can't believe anyone worries about being vindicated on an online message board.

That stands out to me more than the story does.

[sufrommich]

19. You can't be serious. It's practically the lifeblood of

message boards.

[Forkboy]

20. I guess.

Either people are caring too much or I'm not caring enough. :)

[spoony]

33. Framed screencaps. That's where it's at. nt

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

18. Yay! For once, left-wingers were wrong and right-wingers were right! Go Team! -nt

[Clintonista2]

22. Yes because violence is a left-wing value

:eyes:

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

23. Is an inaccurate statement of someone being an agent provocateur an endorsement of violence? -nt

[Clintonista2]

24. If all violence is justified by claiming that it's really the police, even when the facts say

otherwise, then yes. Liberals should be denouncing the violence, not justifying it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

26. I see. "It wasn't us who did it" and "Doing it is a-OK" are the same thing now.

Only in your world.

Thanks for increasing the percentage of passing photons, though.

[rapturedbyrobots]

29. why?

why should the left be denouncing violence? not all lefties are hippies and pacifists. that wasn't even the case in the 60's & 70's. certainly not now. violence is a tool and a practice, not a value. and in the case of self-defense is often deemed a useful and necessary tool by certain groups suffering state-sponsored violence and repression. it is their perogative to determine the situations and strategies appropriate for their circumstances and to act accordingly (and suffer the consequences accordingly) if that's what they choose. or does non-violence trump self-determination?

[lame54]

25. The Accidental Anarchist?

[vanlassie]

27. Sounds to me like it's VERY IMPORTANT for you to be "right" about things.

How's that working for you, OP?

[William Z. Foster]

28. I have doubts

I have doubts that "DU" claims that all instances of violence at all marches and rallies are always caused by agents provocateur.

You are turning reality upside down. You ridicule all suspicions by any people about agents provocateur by claiming that "DU" - many or all people here I guess - are always claiming that all instances of violence at marches and rallies are caused by agents provocateur. That is a straw man that you then can knock down by citing one instance of violence that was not caused by an agent provocateur.

You are not in any way vindicated, and your posts here are highly deceptive and misleading.

[Robb]

36. How many Americas do you think there are?

"Agents provocateur," indeed. ;)

[SunsetDreams]

41. +2

[Hannah Bell]

31. i'm terribly confused: "Kirk Warrington... is overcome by smoke after attempting to put out a fire"

i was in seattle in 1999.

i no longer believe any reportage from events like this, having seen how badly the media got it wrong then.

[socialist_n_TN]

32. Well, as I recall the pic you showed

was a guy dressed like a SWAT teamer kicking in (or trying to kick in) a window, NOT somebody burning a cop car. Ergo, the guy who was in the picture you showed could well have BEEN a cop.

But here's the deal as far as I'm concerned. We're in a war. It's not a hot war....yet, but it IS a war and it's warming up. It's the capitalists and their hired thugs and dupes against the rest of us. In this conflict, I'M on the side of the REST OF US. It does NO good for the capitalist media to be able to depict ALL anti capitalists and ALL demonstrators as violent by showing ONLY people who are doing violence. And since the cops have been PROVEN to use agent provocateurs a LOT, then I'M going to believe they're cops UNTIL IT'S PROVEN THAT THEY'RE NOT. IOW, if somebody's doing something violent at an overall peaceful demonstration, I'm going to ASSUME they're cops until I'm proven wrong. And I'm going to say so.

[Robb]

35. Well, that's only sensible.

:rofl:

[Robb]

34. No one likes being reminded they were dead wrong.

As about the only person on DU who didn't finger a teabagger for the Times Square bomb plot, and having been called countless unmentionable things for suggesting it might've been Pakisatni jihadi, I can attest that apologies on DU are thin.

[Rex]

37. Do you get an extra star for forum vindication?

Maybe a 'martyr on the cross' emo? Well I am glad that you finally received the justice so angrily denied you by anonymous forum users!

[BakedAtAMileHigh]

38. was he a hockey fan, then?

Because sports riots have burned a whole lot more police cars and caused more property damage than any "anarchists" you can conjure up outta your boogey man closet, Chumley.

[HCE SuiGeneris]

39. Well then. You sure showed 'DU' who's king of the message boards!

WTFG!

[apocalypsehow]

40. I simply don't understand the "UnRecs" on this OP. The truth should never be frowned upon by

progressives, even if that truth upsets a cherished narrative. It's unbelievable that anyone calling themselves any kind of "liberal" would be upset at the facts themselves just because they happen to be facts. That's supposed to be the other side's routine, not ours.

[girl gone mad]

42. So you know for a fact that 26-year-old Kirk Warrington..

is not in the employ of any government agency or of any private group looking to create bad publicity against the protesters at the g-20?

Really?

[SunsetDreams]

43. You Are Making A Broad Brush "You Are Wrong" Attack

and you know it!!!! ZOMG!!!
:evilgrin:

[MinM]

44. EXPOSED! - G20 Police in Black Bloc Anarchist Gear

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x480166

Of course this is Par for the Course...



http://journals.democraticunderground.com/MinM/139