Ideas please - how do I change my lifestyle to one that does not NEED a car?

[SmileyRose]

So I admit - SwampRat's post got me thinking. He said he NEEDS a car but gave it up anyway. I'm a little fuzzy on how if someone NEEDS a car they are capable of functioning without it (wouldn't that be a WANT not a NEED?) but Swampy has earned the right for me to accept him at his word and I do. I'm merely saying I don't understand all the ins and outs of how he has done so.

To be honest, I have wanted to do this myself for a very long time. I have never been able to figure out HOW to tweek my lifestyle so that a car - even a ride in someone else's car - would be unnecessary. (because catching a ride with someone else is morally no different than driving myself IMHO)

So I want to be gas engine free. HOW do I get there?

I need my home and job within walking distance. I also need groceries, basic shopping and medical care within walking distance.

Where I'm at now

I am unable to sell my home. My husband WILL NOT move and although the marriage is pretty bad I'm not quite ready to give up on it. So this is where I live. For good or bad.

The closest commercial area that would offer any sort of jobs at all is 7 miles away - there are few if any sidewalks on the 5 lane road where cars travel 40-60 mph (speed limit is 40 which means 60 in reality).

The bus to get me out of my local area used to stop in that commercial area 7 miles away. The county has recently killed the bus system. There is a Georgia Regional bus park and ride lot 9 miles away that will take me to Atlanta.

I have some disability with my legs. If I really had to I could walk 14 miles a day for a job near minimum wage that would require me to stand all day, but I would probably only last 3 months tops. A bicycle is inappropriate on those roads and I have a lot of trouble using a bicycle anyway because of the disability. I would simply not be safe.

IF I managed to manipulate the husband to move - or simply say FU and leave - I lack the brains, education or even basic skills to earn much more than I do. Which makes it impossible to live in any sort of safe neighborhood in Atlanta where the jobs are or where anything remotely resembling public transportation to the jobs are.


So my friends at the DU. I ask for your ideas and help.
I would like to change my lifestyle to one that never needs a car. I am stuck in the box that is my life. Hopefully some of you can see "the window" or "door" that I can't see.

Thanks in advance.

[stray cat]

1. Death is an alternative - but not a good one and way too drastic!

[pschoeb]

2. Well A Scooter Would work fine for either the 7 mile or 9 mile trip

You could also try an electric bicycle, they can be pedaled, or use an electric motor, would be similar to a scooter when using electric motor, but if you wanted some occasional exercise you could pedal sometimes.

[SmileyRose]

9. I'd love the scooter thing but the electric ones are not street legal here.

Scooters have been made not street legal here. Target in that commercial district carried an electric scooter for quite some time and quit because the law was changed to specifically outlaw them. SUV drivers rule the road and the county government.......... they don't want to be bother to pay attention.

[Fumesucker]

12. If it has pedals it's considered a bicycle..

A motorized bicycle or electrically assisted bike is legal, indeed electrically assisted bikes are legal even on bicycle/walking only trails.

There are motorized kits for bicycles that make them much more useful (particularly for those of us who aren't young or particularly hale any more) and still legal for use on the street.

http://www.staton-inc.com/

I'm local to the Atlanta area and would be happy to lend you a hand getting set up with something like this..

[SmileyRose]

17. I appreciate the offer

If I pedal Clayton and Morrow police say I can use the road at my own risk (and they highly recommend I don't - which I agree - it's not safe)

If there any sort of motor connected to the bike it must be capable of maintaining the speed of traffic.

I ***MUST*** have a 3 wheel. My disability makes it impossible and unsafe for me to operate a 2 wheel anything. I am willing to ride the 9 mile to the GRTA on a 3 wheel but I can't figure out how to get the 3 wheel on the bike rack in the front of the bus (GRTA says I can if I can get it on there) AND I can't figure out how to get cleaned up for my professional office job once I get to work.

I'm not discounting it - just saying I'm not smart enough to figure out the logistics.

[pschoeb]

31. Well the electric assist bicycle would be fine

They are considered bicycles under Georgia's transportation rules, so while you can't use them on freeways, everything else is fine, even bike paths, which scooters can't go on. They go about 20mph max.

Your correct, Georgia restricts moped/scooters to roads 35 mph or less, though you might be able to find alternate routes to get you close to where you need to be.

Personally I think getting rid of a car you already own, isn't necessarily the ideal goal, unless you know psychologically you won't use alternate transportation at all, if the car is there. A decent amount of the total energy a car consumes in an average lifespan is manufacturing energy, which has already been used, if you can cut down the amount you use the car as much as possible, that would be ideal.

I've ridden a bicycle as my main form of transport, since I could ride, I still own an old International Harvester Scout, which I've had since High School, I use it maybe 2-3 times a year for some very heavy hauling jobs.

Despite me using a bike for transportation, I've actually never planned where to live or work based on that. I've lived all over the place, from small town to big city, and had jobs decent distances(25 miles) from my housing. It does require thinking differently about routes, than when you drive a car, but is all very doable, but better to do as much as you can, than nothing at all because you can't handle zero car, and treat it as an all or nothing goal.

[lunatica]

49. Rain? Winter? Snow? Grocerie? Other passengers?

And freeways?

[SunnySong]

3. First get a million dollars... then move to New York or San Fran.... then enjoy you new

car free lifestyle. (Make sure to look down on the little people while you do its all part of the package.)

[Luminous Animal]

10. I have a million dollars? Could you please tell me where it is, I need my teeth fixed.

[mopinko]

15. chicago

we are bluer than blue, have great public trans, great bike trails, several zipcar type companies, and grocery delivery is available is almost all stores.

[SunnySong]

18. Fair enough (though waiting for the bus in February is not for everyone)

[mopinko]

29. winters are really not as bad as the legends

and it is not that hard to dress appropriately. balanced against reasonably mild summers, i, personally have no problems with chicago weather. ymmv.

[WorseBeforeBetter]

35. Bundle up and deal. I slug it out in 97-degree heat. (n/t)

[WorseBeforeBetter]

32. Horseshit. There are plenty of people living in Arlington/Alexandria, VA....

(to name just one area) that are car-free and not worth a million dollars. One can be so because of Metro, bike paths, and sidewalks. There's also Zipcar, for when you might need to get somewhere that you cannot walk, bike, skate or take public transportation to.

REDUCE, REUSE, RECYCLE -- it's really quite simple.

[SunnySong]

36. And if I lived there and was so inclined I could go carless.

Unfortunately I live in a soon to be oil soaked beach community and there are no stores other than those that sell bikinis or margaritas within walking distance. Plus you need a car to evacuate from a hurricane (no hurricanes since 1923 mind you but the nice people on TV tell us this year is the one)

Not to mention work might notice if I showed up soaked in sweat every morning. I need a car (or two a truck for Costco runs and a small german compact for commuting) but I agree I can drive less.

[distantearlywarning]

51. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

I have another, similar suggestion. It might not be right for the OP, because she has relationship issues to deal with, but maybe somebody else might be interested.

Pittsburgh, PA is experiencing something of a renaissance right now. We have weathered the recession better than literally anywhere else in the country. There are still jobs here, and we have a very low cost of living, esp. with regard to housing prices. Further, it's an extremely walkable city, and we also have good public transportation that goes nearly everywhere in the metro area including suburbs. And it's a nice place, with lots of cultural amenities, green space, and a very blue political climate.

My husband and I came here from a western city where it was impossible to live life without a car. Within the first year, we ditched one of our cars and became a 1-car family. I myself rarely drive anywhere anymore - I take the bus or walk almost everywhere I go, and it is easy to do that here. I know many, many non-drivers in Pittsburgh who have completely normal lives.

There are also many farmer's markets here where you can buy local produce in the city, local farm shares are common here, as are community gardens, and housing is cheap enough that it is more than possible for the average person to find enough land in the urban center to build a little home garden (I personally know at least 5 people who live in the city core who have serious veggie gardens and 1 who keeps chickens too - I also have a small garden myself where I grow squash, cucumbers, etc.). And it rains a lot here, so gardening is easy even for brown thumbs, and you don't have to waste water to grow veggies.

For anyone looking for a cheap place to live where you can seriously reduce your carbon footprint while still maintaining an easy lifestyle, Pittsburgh is a great choice.

[undeterred]

4. Swamp Rats post got me thinking too.

I hate having to have a car. When I lived in Chicago, I did not own a car half the time - I got around just fine and I saved money.

I live on a bus route in a big city now so I thought I could live without a car. But there is no bus to my current employer, even though its only five miles away. Its across a couple of major highways and there is no way to safely walk or ride a bike from the employer to the nearest bus stop, over a mile away. The employer doesn't have lockers or showers. There are over 3000 people working where I work, and thousands more working nearby, but no buses at all. Its absurd.

If my car quits working, I'm going to be in a real predicament.

[SoCalDem]

5. First, sit down and do the paperwork

add up the insurance, gas, repairs, payments etc, and then divide it by the miles actually driven and then maybe by month-week whatever criteria you need to find...That's what it costs to drive.

If you are senior, call & see if there's a dial-a-ride near you, or perhaps talk to a neighbor with a car who would be willing to drive you on errands for a fee. Ask at work about carpooling. with you paying for the ride..check into a bus-pass if there is service near you.

If you plan ahead, you might be able to shop fewer times a month, and just call a taxi. A taxi ride a few times a month HAS to be cheaper than having a car

[noamnety]

14. Is the point though to get rid of the car? Or to stop the gas use?

Getting a neighbor to drive you, using a cab, and using dial-a-ride would end up using just as much gas, so it's not any better for the environment. Dial a ride is probably worse because they have to drive to your house before the trip even starts, and back to their place after you return home.

[SmileyRose]

19. For me it's both.

I have to be mindful of my economics but I am trying to purge all NEW petroleum based products out of my life - and have been for years. It's much harder than I expected because plastic is simply EVERYWHERE.

[SoCalDem]

20. Taking a car off the road is still a benefit

and if people need to get somewhere, why not double up, until they get used to the idea of not having a car.. sometimes incremental steps are necessary. Not everyone can go cold turkey:)

[rucky]

6. Grocery shopping is the biggest challenge. Find a food cooperative

many deliver:

www.localharvest.org

[LWolf]

7. Live somewhere in walking and biking distance from

most needs, with a great public transit system.

[treestar]

8. It's not your fault that our society set itself up to need cars

So I don't think you should feel bad about it. Just support politicians more likely to support policies that will help with more mass transit.

One thing I did once was used the car where I had to, but when the car was in the shop, I learned a little bit about the bus system. So when I got the car back, I drove it for work - but on weekends when I did not have to work, I used the bus. It obviously took longer and wasn't practical in some instances, but was like an adventure otherwise. You don't have to drive, you can see more people and things and it gives you a new perspective, making it worth the time.

9 miles is too far unless you're young and want to ride a bike. I could ride a bike to my office now if I really wanted to, and I did when the car was in the shop. Showers in offices would be a thing to work for! No one thinks of that! That's a limitation on bike riding to work if you are a professional.

[SmileyRose]

11. I don't feel bad about the car - but am trying to figure out how to get rid of it.

When I take the cost of using my car and living here versus the cost of living intown - gasoline would have to be at $9 a gallon for the rest of my life before I would even break even -- if housing costs remained the same.

I'm only an accounting clerk but I have to look professional. Giving that up and going for the service or retail job at near minimum wage near home is too big of a loss because of the cost of purchasing my own medical care versus my bennies at work and because the cost of the car would still be necessary for days my legs just will not do the 14 miles AND on my feet all day at work. --- I would also expect full disability within a year if I make a move like that.

Anyways, I feel like I'm going around in circles. No guilt, just frustration. And yes, our society is backwards in this regard.

[taterguy]

13. Buy a truck

Problem solved

[SmileyRose]

21. LOL

smartass. :loveya:

[Regret My New Name]

44. teehee

[patrice]

16. I think "never" is too high of a standard. ANY reduction should be the initial goal and then

there should be progress toward increasing these reductions in your auto/carbon fuels usage.

Those who get the closest to "never" live in the kinds of cities or other environment that allows this. Working from home helps, cooperative living and driving arrangements would also be useful.

But, for most of us, realistically speaking, this would be things like: combining trips, eating at home instead of running across town to your favorite restaurant, netflix, walking whenever possible, gardening to reduce the carbon fuels used to feed you, reusing anything that is reusable (to save the carbon fuel cost of replacing this stuff), and stuff like, this may be a little radical, but I put my trash dumpster out for emptying one every other week or so, because it's HUGE and I don't near fill it weekly, so why have the big truck stop and start again to collect for me every week, same with my re-cycling.

A lot of people discount the value of small things, but anyone who does systems work KNOWS that small things REALLY add up.

[SmileyRose]

22. Oh I agree

I'm doing all the little stuff I can think off and try to incorporate every new idea into my life. And yes, they add up.

But I realized with the BP thing that ANY petroleum usage means there's going to be a wellhead in some ocean somewhere with my name on it. I feel like I'm in an exercise of futility to get all of the petroleum out of my life - but if I can figure out how to make the car someone else's problem that would be another big step in the right direction.

[patrice]

30. That's right too; all is Process: Do the little stuff while growing toward the big stuff, like

ending our personal and intimate identification with automobiles.

Me too: "I feel like I'm in an exercise of futility to get all of the petroleum out of my life"

But we must make these "futile" changes anyway, because (if that methane bubbling out of the Gulf of Mexico means what some think it means, the world will respond to our carbon and financial profligacy ((we have already charged up a great deal on all of our accounts for the carbon footprint of our War of Choice, the Invasion & Occupation of Iraq, which has probably not a few other nations kind of PO'd at us, not to mention a certain digital social disease we gave a bunch of other nations, called "Credit Default Swaps", a.k.a. derivatives))) the U.S.A. will soon be put on welfare and if each of us isn't ready to live on less, having more of nothing isn't going to help.

[izquierdista]

23. Europe

In addition to excellent public transportation, having your disability treated medically would also be an option.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SmileyRose]

25. not exactly

3 of the roads I would have to be on are hair raising and dangerous for anyone afoot or on bicycle. My feet will not take me 7 miles each way long terms. I have some disabilities that will only get worse with that kind of use. But feet will put me off in the grass and weeds if I must and I can step up and down the curbs to stay 3 feet from the traffic lane. Still harrowing though.

A bike would not do well in the grass, weeds and up and down square curbs to stay out of the traffic lane on the very dangerous roads. Legally I'm allowed to ride a bike but practically I'd be putting my life at risk bigtime out in the roadway. I would REQUIRE a 3 wheel because my disability makes a 2 wheel impossible.

A rock and a hard place............

[Upton]

27. Sidewalks?

I have to drive almost thirty miles to find a sidewalk. And I'm sure not riding a bicycle that far...even if I wanted to, many of the roads lack shoulders. Not everyone lives in the city...some of us actually live out in the country.

[grantcart]

26. swamprat got people thinking again. Where will it end

Hopefully never.

[rzemanfl]

28. My only thought is to live near an urban college campus.

Those seem to have the necessities nearby (grocery stores, drug stores, etc.) and some level of public transportation. I imagine rents are inflated, though.

[FedUpWithIt All]

33. Having a car can be offset by doing things to minimize that impact.

Make sure you have the most efficient car you can afford

Streamline your car and keep it in good health to keep it as efficient as possible. Things like properly inflated tires DO make a difference, esp when more people are taking these actions as well.

Make sure you have the least amount of cars possible running at one time.

Make sure you limit extraneous driving.

When driving in to shop or run errands consolidate the trips and do several errands on a single trip instead of many single purposed outing.

Shared trips (with neighbors for example) to the supermarket will cut things down over time, especially if you live in a rural area and drive far to those places.

Cut power usage in other areas when possible. People really underestimate the power savings of line drying clothing and other relatively small changes around a home. Replace, when possible, old energy hog appliances and tvs with smaller or more energy efficient types.

One of the biggest ways to make a big impact, that places like BP will feel, is to buy local, recycle and reuse whenever possible. They are shipping tons of "stuff" all the time. Let's hit them there and in doing so help local economies, the environment and our own health and well being.

[Odin2005]

34. You HAVE to live in an urban area with decent mass-transit to get by w/o a car.

Those of us who can't drive and who don't live in the urban core of a major city are effectively 2nd class citizens whose human rights are being violated by the very car-centric structure of our society.

[SunnySong]

37. I disagree it is a human rights violation.

That seems a bit much. We all have our blessings and challenges that is simply the way of life.

[taterguy]

40. You don't have to, that just makes it easier

I got by just fine for 10 years with no car in a smallish Southern city.

The only mass transit I used was occasional trips on AMTRAK.

YMMV of course.

[LWolf]

68. I think your key word is "city." nt

[taterguy]

75. So how do you propose overturning the laws of physics?

Moving a mass a distance requires energy.

If you don't have to move it very far, you can use your own power.

If you're traveling a long distance, you'll need a personal vehicle.

Studies that I'm too lazy to look up show that mass transit in areas where there isn't population density use more oil than just driving a car.

[LWolf]

76. I don't.

Propose to overturn the law of physics. You said you got by just fine without a car in a small city.

To me, "city" means "don't have to travel very far."

Outside the city, we need personal vehicles. That WAS my point.

[Cresent City Kid]

50. The Katrina evacuation plan was wholly "get in your car and leave"

I lived in New Orleans for many years without a car, not as a choice, I had none. The public transportation was sufficient, I could get to anywhere I needed or wanted to go. Many of my fellow New Orleanians were in the same situation, busses and streetcars were commonly standing room only.

I now live in the only place I can afford, which is 32 miles from my job in a small community south of San Antonio. If my brother in law hadn't rescued me and my wife, we would be worse off. My choices are still limited. I've looked and looked and my job is the best I can find in all of San Antonio. If not for a FEMA check, I wouldn't have the car that allowed me to take this job. I limit my home energy use and only drive for necessity, but I don't know what else I can do. I am honestly open to suggestions.

[Odin2005]

57. Good point. I remember hearing that on the news and my reaction was...

..."What if you don't have a car and can't get a ride from someone?" which is why that picture of the flooded buses sitting in a parking lot REALLY pissed me off!

[demwing]

38. Work from home, if possible

ride a bike, get a bus pass, and PLAN. Shop locally, even if a little more expensive - you're not paying for gas anymore, save that cash or put it back into your expense budget.

Working from home is extremely helpful if you can. The daily commute is where most people spend time behind the wheel.

Also, as I said, planning is the key. Often, we drive because it is convenient, and saves time. Time management can help overcome what you lose in speed, and the benefits spill over into other areas of your life. I didn't drive for years. Had a bicycle and a red wagon I tied to the back of the bike for carrying groceries. Everyone in town knew me as the bike guy!

good luck

[NuttyFluffers]

39. find a gas-to-electric car conversion kit.

you have a lot of exceptions, therefore perhaps a car is the best solution for you. however, with internet access and the amount of savings incurred after, you have the tools to do your research and find a way to move off of gas and onto electricity.

i myself suffer from a lack of research as well currently, and capital (which is a bigger issue). but once i get more research down i'm very interested in switching. i hope some of them get up to freeway speeds, otherwise i'd have to get another car for work-a-day commuting -- and i just don't have the capital for that right now.

[TransitJohn]

65. Most electricity comes from coal.

So I don't think that will lessen her carbon footprint, which is what she wants to do.

[JDPriestly]

41. Do you have a place for a horse?

That might not be allowed on the roads either, but it would be fun to ride and make a good point. You might even be able to find a reporter to write an article about you getting rid of your car and getting a horse. Horses eat hay and grass and need water and brushing.

Granted this is not a practical idea for everyone. But remember, horses are how people used to get around in everyday life.

My mother was telling me a story about her childhood the other day. As casually as we say, "we stopped for gas," she said, "so my friend harnessed up the horses, and we started home." So, the use of horses for transportation by average Americans is within living memory.

Maybe we can get shopping centers to erect hitching posts. There would be plenty of room in the back of a wagon for a couple of weeks worth of groceries.

[SunnySong]

43. Horses would be worse for the enviroment than clean running cars. nt

[LWolf]

71. I have 3 horses.

I don't use them to get back and forth to town, or work, for a few reasons:

1. Safety. There are few roads with good shoulders to ride on, which would put the horse and I in the bike lanes, which is too close to traffic for comfort. Going across the only bridge over the river would be worse...no bike lane there. My horses are neither draft horses nor trained for police work. They aren't calm around traffic. The frequent deer kills on the roads between home and town or work say it all.

2. Conditioning...I'm 14 miles from work. That's a 28-mile round-trip, every day. I COULD condition the horse for that kind of workout, but even endurance competition riders don't ride that far EVERY DAY.

3. Time...the average horse walks 2-4 mph. At that rate, it would take me 3.5 hours to get to work, and 3.5 hours to get home. Of course, I could trot...but the impact on hooves and legs trotting over pavement, especially at those distances, would ensure that the horse wasn't sound for very long.

4. Infrastructure...what do I do with the horse when I get to work, or to the grocery store? When I was a kid, even in very populated so cal, I used to ride my horse across the ventura freeway to a shopping center that still had a hitching rail under a big oak tree in the middle of the parking lot. I haven't seen anything like that in years, though.

5. Weather. Spending all those hours riding to and fro, early morning and late evening, in the dark, in freezing temperatures, rain, snow, and hail would not be likely to keep me, or the horse, healthy.

Now...change the infrastructure, and I might ride the horse some of the time. Give me a smooth, even, well-maintained trail, and I could trot to work. A horse trots at about 8-10 mph. A couple of miles to warm up, a couple of miles to cool down, and 10 miles of trotting would cut the time by about an hour and a half, making it a 2-hour trip. It would be safer. I could get my farrier to put some special, and pricey, shoes with pads to absorb impact, and reduce the damage to bone and ligament.

Put safe hitching posts, so I'd have someplace to put the horse. I might take the horse in once or twice a week. At least for grocery trips, if not to work and back.

[chaska]

42. Seriously, why can't we have personal-sized dirigibles?

They could be muscle powered: Put a propeller on a bicycle and a missile shaped balloon to keep it airborne. Simple. No more traffic jams, no pollution, no noise. What am I missing? The automobile will own the roads for a long time to come. One town in Colorado actually outlawed bike riding.

[Taitertots]

45. You will probably have to move and get a new job n/t

[mikeSchmuckabee]

46. Get a job at Wal-Mart and move there.

They have food (both fresh and fast). Shelter and Clothing. They have pharmacies, opticians, and urgent care on-site in some cases. Thet have home furnishings. They even clean the bathrooms-which come with baby changing facilities-occasionally.

[csziggy]

60. Better yet - live at IKEA. More friendly, though without the medical stuff

http://www.marklivesinikea.com/

[Ozymanithrax]

47. Buy a bicycle...

It will get you to work faster than walking. In fact, it more than doubles your easy commute range.

With a good backpack you can grocery shop, for a few days worth of stuff.

[distantearlywarning]

52. She explains in the OP that the roads in her area are unsafe for biking.

And she has a physical disability that prevents her from biking also.

[taterguy]

53. Not very helpful advice to someone with a disability who lives where the OP lives

And have you ever heard of scapular misidentity syndrome?

Try buying groceries on a bike a few weeks and you will.

Hope you have a good physical therapist.

[Ozymanithrax]

55. I used to comute to work 24 miles (one way) with a parapalygic bicyclist...

He used only his hands.

You can buy a mountain bike that can handle rough roads.

If she is disabled, then she will have to give upon the idea of living without a vehical. We live in a oil civilization that has designed our entire nation to use cars. It would take at least a generation to redisign that civilization. That is not going to change fast. If she has disabilities, then she must work her life around those.

[Obamanaut]

58. deleted to repost in proper spot

[lunatica]

48. I too would have gone car free a long time ago if I could

I've been hoping that something would come along that would enable all of us to convert our existing cars to some other form of energy. Something that would be easy to do and perhaps have an economic incentive.

But that would take an act of Congress.

[Spider Jerusalem]

54. You live in metro Atlanta; you're kind of fucked.

Presumably you're outside the perimeter. If you want a lifestyle that allows you to not have a car you need to move in-town, which is expensive these days; you need either public transit or work within walking distance.

This is something that's a problem for people in most of the US thanks to development that's been centred around cars for the past 60 years or so. Subdivisions and suburbs with no sidewalks or cycle paths situated 5 or 10 miles from commercial and business areas are not conducive to life without a car.

[happy_liberal]

56. I think it is impractical for you to not use a car and you should not beat yourself up about it

Seriously, you need to think about your health first. You can reduce/eliminate your use of all plastics to make up for it(and also aid your health)

Another thing you can do is offer a ride to your closest neighbors going in the same direction, maybe offer your name on the senior ride needed/carpooling list so you can extend a hand and help others reduce their gas usage.

[Obamanaut]

59. Long wheel base recumbent trike, similar to this (link in text) can be

fitted with an electric motor to either propel the vehicle, or assist with pedalling.

http://www.sunbicycles.com/product_detail.php?short_cod...

Tires are available for snow/ice riding, as well as chains for bicycle tires.

[Taitertots]

61. Some of those bikes cost over $1,000

Not really feasible for someone on a limited income.

[Obamanaut]

62. Actually, *most* of those bikes cost more than $1,000. But in rereading

the OP, I think I answered the question.

The link I sent is to a company that has recumbents at the low end of the price range.

A trike such as in the link is stable enough for someone with some disabilities. A motor would further enhance the vehicle's usefulness for such a person. Tires are available for snow/ice.

I did not see anything about income levels in the OP - I may have missed it, or it was implied and I didn't catch it - but in any case, a vehicle such as in the link could be used to answer the OP.

ETA: The price of a long wheel base recumbent trike (aka delta trike) is less than most cars. Isn't it? Lower purchase price, no gas, no tags, no insurance. Yup, meets the request of the OP

[SmileyRose]

63. comes in a 2 seater!

I have a trike now, not recumbant. I scored it off Craigslist for free and fixed it until it worked. I got it for getting a little exercise and once I found a bike rack that "I" could get it on the car it's been a lot of fun. I'm allowed to put it on the bike rack on the front of the bus **IF** there's room and **IF** I can figure out how to clip it on. I just can't figure out how to be safe on the streets required to even get from my house to Publix, let alone the bus station.

I've kinda resigned myself to the fact I should just keep my car and try to whittle away even more at use of it - and look for a hybrid or electric when it's time to replace it. I'd just really like to NOT be responsible for an oil well anywhere.

Anyways, love the recumbant, which I have never seen. 2 seater - bikepool to work HAHA.

[Obamanaut]

67. We got the recumbent trike for Miz O for rehab after her motorscooter

accident. It was this one http://www.sunbicycles.com/product_detail.php?short_code=EZ-3+SX+Trike&cl1=RECUMBENT , and I have the two wheel version. This one has handlebars, whereas the one in the earlier link has underseat steering - your arms are hanging down by your sides and you steer with a handle in each hand. The seat, by the way, is about 24" above the ground, and your feet are on the pedals slightly lower than that. I've been on mine for as long as two hours without a break.

Miz O's accident was 4 years ago, and last December we gave it to a lady whose orthopedic surgeon suggested she get one for her rehab. With hospital bills in the thousands, it wasn't on the top of their list, and we found out about her need via a highschool email newsletter (1959/60 graduates).

I ride locally on a two lane road, 55 mph limit, and have never had a problem with cars, or even logging trucks. I have had people pull alongside just to look, because one rarely sees a recumbent in this part of N. Fla.

Hostelshoppe.com has tandem recumbent trikes.

ETA: I got a single wheel trailer and attached it to the trike, and used it for hauling stuff. It had a 45 lb weight limit. We don't have curbside trash pickup where I live, so I hauled our trash to the dumpster, a 10 mile round trip. Also got gas for the mower, using three 2.5 gallon containers, a 14 mile round trip.

[chillspike]

64. What about a 3 wheeled electric bicycle?

Is that also no good?

What about a 3 wheeled moped?

What about a SUNN car?

Site: http://www.sunnev.com/

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yZEAlJduRrs

[ThomThom]

66. possibly the best you can do is minimize your footprint

start a carpool or other group transportation to stores and jobs, van pools
if we can get people working together to do something everyone benefits

[earth mom]

69. If you are really serious about this you would move to the city.

You know what to do and you will only do it if you REALLY want to or are forced to.

Just like the millions upon millions of people who live in the suburbs who won't change a damn thing until absolutely forced to.

[SunnySong]

70. Most of us cannot not afford to live in the city. Between the higher taxes, higher food costs,

and for many parents private school the city is simply out of reach.

[earth mom]

72. Excuses, excuses. We can go around in circles about this all day.

Look, I'm in the same boat myself. I live a few miles out of town except that I only drive a couple of times a week anymore.

At least I know that I need to change and have plans to move to town as soon as I can.

And at least I'm honest with myself about it and don't sit there and make excuses about it and give up because it's an uphill battle.

Sorry, but I don't see that coming from people who make excuse after excuse as to why they can't change, blah blah blah.

Just admit the truth and then see what you can do to take small steps towards changing.

It's not going to happen overnight, but the attitude across the country needs to change.

The BP disaster has proven beyond a doubt that we can't continue our crippling dependancy on oil.


p.s. Do you have 2 user names, because I thought I had addressed the OP, smileyrose, not you.

[Gormy Cuss]

73. Start out by finding strategies to limit your car use.

For one thing, ride sharing with friends is a step in the right direction because it's moving more people on just about the same amount of gasoline.

Another strategy: commit to use the car principally for commuting to a job. Trips for shopping need to be planned as part of the trip to or from work as much as possible, and when choices can be made about where to shop choose the stores that are closest to your normal commute. Same deal with visiting family and friends: if you're using the car, cram as many other errands into the same trip as possible. If you're going to Atlanta, try to use the park & ride lot rather than driving all the way in.

I can't speak on the transit system in Atlanta but if you haven't looked closed at the whole regional system, do so. What seems to be an insurmountable challenge initially may actually be workable once you understand all of the transit options. If there's no affordable area in the city of Atlanta, perhaps there's a different area near the city that would give you better transportation options than where you live now. I live in an older suburban area where many of my neighbors would claim that one MUST have a car to get anywhere, but there's a bus service on weekdays that connects with service areas and mass transit to Oakland and San Francisco. If more people in this area would use the bus there'd be a good argument for expanding the service, but they're so convinced that it's impossible they don't even try.

[Retrograde]

74. Why does it have to be an either/or decision?

What about setting a more attainable goal, like driving X% less than you do now, or only driving Y miles a week.

As I see it, the basic problem you've identified is that you live in an area not designed for the carless. No matter what individual steps you take to give up the internal combustion engine that's not going to change your community. What will is getting involved in local politics: instead of spending 5 hours a day walking 15 miles go to local planning board meetings and ask why your neighborhood can't get sidewalks, or why the area can't be rezoned to allow basic commercial necessities. Support candidates for local office who support transportation alternatives. Write letters to the local media, including blogs. It's going to be a long, uphill battle and there will be setbacks but until the fundamental problems are fixed one person giving up a car is just a bandaid-fix.

If you do decide to move for whatever reason, keep car-freeness in mind when you choose a new location. The initial costs may be higher, and that will probably be reflected in your downpayment and mortgage, but if you include the cost of transportation in your total cost of ownership it may even be cheaper to bite the bullet for a few years and go with an in-town location.

[dembotoz]

77. perhaps the best option would be to cut down

walk where you can
use and promote public transportation if or where it is available
combine trips
check in to and use alternate forms of transport where practical.

[handmade34]

78. do what you can

and do not stress over what you can't. There are many things in our everyday activities that we can alter to use less and make less of a footprint. If you must drive, do it, but be honest with yourself about what you are doing. Gas engines are only part of the problem (and ride-sharing is significant)

talk to everyone around you and try to encourage them to conserve
quit eating meat
buy local and organic as much as possible
don't support companies that are excessive
use reusable shopping bags
quit using excessive plastics(packaging materials) and chemicals
share rides and share errand trips whenever possible
buy in bulk to limit trips
walk when it is possible
trade your home if possible
trade your husband if possible
etc...

think in POSSIBILITIES!! not what you can't do

[Curmudgeoness]

79. Although I really admired SwampRat for his dramatic choice,

I don't think that everyone is able to do this, no matter how much they would like to do it. Don't listen to the people giving you grief over the excuses, if it is just not a possibility right now, don't worry so much about it. Make this a goal that you can work toward, not something you have to do today. First of all, you are a female, and that makes some of the options you are getting from others less than ideal, or safe. Secondly, you have a disability that makes this even more difficult. One day, I hope, you will be able to be out of your bad marriage (or things will change, but I am not holding my breath), and you can fulfill this dream.

[KamaAina]

80. Let me guess: you're in Clayton?

The county has recently killed the bus system. There is a Georgia Regional bus park and ride lot 9 miles away that will take me to Atlanta.

If so, they're trying to revive it, perhaps by fall. As I understand it, C-TRAN was in large part a victim of its own success: the buses were so crowded they couldn't operate safely, and they couldn't afford to add new ones.

A few years ago I had heard that Clayton was trying to join MARTA. What ever became of that?

Become a transit activist! Since you, too, are a person with a disability :hi: perhaps you could hook up with disABILITY Link, your local Center for Independent Living, over in Decatur:

http://www.disabilitylink.org