Why democratic presidents are disrespected within the military

[SoCalDem]

Armed Forces Radio & their long-standing "association" with Limbaugh. This radio station is the "soundtrack" of the military and a home to Limbaugh's non-stop hate , and it has always been that way . Eight years of Clinton-bashing followed by 8 years of Bush-love , and a seamless segue into Obama-hate.

There are so very many young people who are left out of society, and who see the military as their only way to make a living, and who probably are quite suggestible.. the military teaches them to be that way.

When they hear their own superiors being disrespectful, it only reinforces the rightwing garbage they hear on the radio.

Rush-the-entertainer is anything but, and his flavor of propaganda is dangerous for a military that is run by and answerable to the civilian branch of government. This is the stuff of coup d'etats, and of 3rd world governments, where the military run the show..

[muntrv]

1. Since our tax dollars pay for Armed Forces Radio, Rush should not

be on there.

[SoCalDem]

3. Exactly.. and for those who say he should be there, but be counterbalanced, I say no way.

Armed Forces radio should be DEVOID of partisan politics...of ANY flavor.

When someone next to you is responsible for keeping you safe, and you them, the LAST thing the military needs is a bunch of red v blue horseshit.

[newtothegame]

33. Let the soldiers decide what they want to listen to. The least we can do

is to let them hear the radio program of their choice before we send them to slaughter, sheesh.

[Mojeoux]

2. K & Effing R

[fascisthunter]

4. the military has been politicized for generations

and it should have been stopped long ago. From history we know politicizing the military to be a very dangerous and ill-advised act.

[SoCalDem]

5. true, but with the instant-world-wide media 24/7 of today, it's more dangerous

you KNOW the McChrystal thing is the topic du jour in the ranks, and sides are being chosen.. In times past, it would trickle down over time, and the "new guy" would quash all idle chatter about the old guy..

[The Backlash Cometh]

6. Because they're autocrats. They have an elitest attitude

that is unhealthy. Our military has been moving in a direction that reminds me of a military dictatorship. They are a junta with a coup just waiting to happen. We've already seen the first sign. The nukes which were ready to be flown to Europe.

[PacerLJ35]

20. If you wear your tinfoil hat, things will seem to appear less fuzzy...try it out

The US military is a junta waiting to happen? WTF ever.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. I live among lots of ex-military and active Air Force.

They act like a guild around here. They take care of their own, regardless of what positions they have in the community. I'm sorry, but when they do the kind of things they do around here, they deserve a critical eye.

Keep in mind, I was born and raised on a military base. This ain't my daddy's military.

[Ron Green]

7. When I was in the military, there was plenty of healthy dissent. We were DRAFTEES

as well as enlisted, and the "US" troops were every bit as competent as "RA" ones.

But we didn't have the gung-ho mindset of today's all-volunteer military.

I'm not calling them mercenaries, but I don't like the attitude.

[SoCalDem]

9. same here. The draft had a humanizing effect on the soldiers.

There were draftees of all stripes..musicians, artists, scholars, farm boys, city boys, jocks, bookish kids..the combination of all of them together fostered a melding of ideas..

Today's "kick ass, shoot-em-up, police academy washout" types who just want to go shoot someone, and with so many being from poor southern hyper religious right wing areas..well that's a dangerous mix..

[Dawson Leery]

12. As you said.

:scared:

[JonLP24]

26. Actually

in today's Army not everyone fits into a single stereotype. In fact they have city boys, farm boys, etc. All different kinds of people from all different kinds of life.

When I was in '05-'08 most people I dealt with lower enlisted weren't so gung-ho. They just did their job, hated BS details, etc. We didn't have a lot of the types that just want to go out and shoot someone. Though I just think those types were big talkers and didn't feel safe around them. I always felt like those types would be the first ones to shit their pants when shit hits the fan.

Police academy washouts? Never met anyone of those but I imagine but I could be wrong, training is much more intense in the Army than the local police department.

[Robb]

8. To be fair, given the attitude of many on the left regarding soldiers

...it's no surprise they often run to the waiting arms of the right-wing.

This is not to say such attitudes are by any means pervasive, but it is loud enough to do damage when it occurs -- even here on DU.

[SoCalDem]

10. I was raised in the military (air force) and the armed forces radio was music & sports

no "commentary".. no one minded at all:)

[provis99]

14. to be fair, its the right wing that craps on the military, not the left.

The left may criticize the Pentagon and the defense contractors, but that ain't the military. The right wings cuts veterans benefits, throws out soldiers on general discharges rather than honorable discharges, cuts military combat pay in half, runs VA hospitals into the ground, and generally pisses all over the military. The right wing loves defense contractors and wars they don't have to serve in; its the left wing who have always done things to help ordinary military people and veterans.

[Robb]

17. Generally, yes.

That reality does not change perception, however, when a vocal minority on the left demeans them -- not their mission, not the Pentagon, not contractors, them.

It happens right here on DU, and while it's not common, it doesn't take a lot to turn people off. Pretending it doesn't happen ignores the reality, unfortunately.

[PacerLJ35]

21. I agree with you

I'm very left leaning...which to be fair isn't as common as people who are right leaning. But most people I know in the military are not highly politicized. They may have their opinions, but they are far from planning a military junta, as some here have stated. That very mindset (that the military is planning revolt, etc, along with the statement that military folks are uneducated dolts who couldn't make it in life) makes those in the military, who are generally centrists for the most part, lean right because it appears the left looks down on them as a bunch of losers, misfits, warmongers or what have you.

It's far too common to see right-leaning people join the military than progressives, for sure. Not saying my right-leaning friends are a bunch of redneck retards (many are highly educated...esp. considering I'm a pilot for the USAF) but it's just a fact. My friends who are more left leaning than I am would have nothing to do with the military. Not necessarily because of some moral high ground, but because they really think they are above military service.

[DatManFromNawlins]

24. It was especially rampant during the first Gulf war

Most have the same opinion of the troops as they do of police officers, it's just that it's more PC to bash a cop than it is to bash a troop.

[JonLP24]

27. I can't speak for all the Armed Forces

but in the unit I was in, most people didn't pay attention to what people were saying. I think I can only recall one incident which was my Platoon Sergeant repeated something Rosie O'Donnell said which I forgot but I believe it was something that the poor, uneducated, and something else join the Military. He responded by saying if something happens to her that she would want a poor, uneducated, something saving her.

However, that very same Platoon Sergeant was urging us to register to vote during primary season by suggesting our vote matters by comparing gas prices as they were then(which was higher than they are now) to the end of Clinton's term so I believe he was a Democrat. One reason why I believe this is also that he was equal opportunity rep and very knowledgeable in that department. It doesn't strike me as something a right winger would be good at.

There is quite a few Democrats in the Army. I remember one guy had a subscription to Mother Jones which another soldier (who I also later found out was a bigot) referred to them as communist magazines. I still keep in contact with friends I made over there and they are the furthest thing from a Republican.

As far as Armed Forces Radio goes, I never heard Rush Limbaugh. Actually the only time I heard AFR was in the Motor Pool in Kuwait and given that lower enlisted who the main ones who worked that and that they were generally young MUSIC was played all the time. Not talk radio. :)

[stevedeshazer]

11. A-Men to that!

They also get Mike Huckabee, 'Dr' Laura, Fox 'News', and Sean Hannity.

Ed Schultz is on, too, but he's way outnumbered.

Complete AFRN schedule here: http://myafn.dodmedia.osd.mil/AFNRadio.aspx#0

Edited to add: Your sig line image is a scream. :rofl:

[Edweird]

13. Hm. I'm willing to bet that the military personnel that enjoy rush

were predisposed prior to enlistment. There are lefty service men and women.

[branders seine]

15. the most clueless wingnut morans I've ever heard

were either active duty or new veterans. Not dissing the troops. just sayin'

[Octafish]

16. K&R in every way.

Well stated SoCalDem. Four Stars.

[donheld]

18. Why this is still happening is very disturbing.

[PacerLJ35]

19. So you're saying I was left out of society, and the military was my only way to make a living?

To be fair, Armed Forces Networks (AFN) shows Hannity, O'Reilly AND Olbermann and Maddow. I know because I had to watch AFN for a whole year while I was deployed to Baghdad. Additionally, all three of the major 24 hour news programs got equal coverage...MSNBC, CNN and FNC. I did not see any particular "bias" in AFN's programming. And to call the Armed Forces Radio the "soundtrack" of the military? Please...I've been in for 18 years and I don't think I've listened to the radio programming once. That's what CD players and iPods are for (and cassettes back in the day).

For what it's worth, there are political flavors of all types in the military. While many lean conservative, most do not consider themselves "Republican". I know plenty of people who were and are very big Democratic supporters, and people like me who are typically centrist but lean left.

[Catherina]

23. Maybe it's because Democratic war Presidents are so afraid of being seen as hawks

after talking a bunch of bullshit to their antiwar constituents that they tie the military's hands and don't give it all the support it needs to accomplish the administration's real goals?

I'm sure the military would have plenty of respect for a CIC that wasn't getting them slaughtered while talking accepting a Nobel PEACE prize.

You can't keep an army in war and pussyfoot because you're afraid your charade is going to become undone. The military like forthrightness. They'll kill for you but don't pretend the war you sent them to has any humanitarian aims and tie their hands. Bring them home NOW!

[pinboy3niner]

25. Good Op-Ed on this in the L.A. Times today:

An increasingly politicized military
Army Gen. Stanley A. McChrystal's criticism of Obama administration officials symbolizes an accelerated partisanship of the officer corps.

Bruce Ackerman
June 22, 2010 | 3:22 p.m.

<snip>
During the early 20th century, strict nonpartisanship was the professional norm. The overwhelming majority of officers even refused to vote since this required them to think of themselves as partisans for the time it took to cast a secret ballot. As late as 1976, 55% of the higher ranks (majors and above) continued to identify as independents.

Vietnam marked a decisive change. With leading Democrats challenging the Cold War consensus, party politics began to threaten key military interests, and many officers began abandoning their detached stance. With the political rise of Ronald Reagan, the top rank of the officer corps moved from 33% Republican in 1976 to 53% in 1984. By 1996, 67% of the senior officer corps were Republicans, and only 7% were Democrats — the basic pattern continued through 2004.

If we look to the service academies, the future promises more politicization. A West Point survey taken in the run-up to the 2004 election indicates that 61% of the cadets who responded were Republicans, 12% were Democrats and the rest were independent. Almost half of the cadets said that "there was pressure to identify with a particular party as a West Point cadet." While Republican cadets tended to minimize this pressure, other cadets disagreed. Two-thirds of non-Republicans affirmed its existence, as did four-fifths of the small minority who identified themselves as Democrats (in a confidential survey).

Increasing partisanship places obvious pressure on the fundamentals of civilian control. But the officer corps doesn't have a firm grasp of basic principles. Studies over the last dozen years suggest that "a majority of active-duty officers believe that senior officers should 'insist' on making civilian officers accept their viewpoints"; and 65% of senior officers think it is OK to go public and advocate military policies they believe "are in the best interests of the United States." In contrast, only 29% believe that high-ranking civilians, rather than their military counterparts, "should have the final say on what type of military force to use."
<snip>

Bruce Ackerman, a professor of law and political science at Yale University, is the author of the forthcoming book "The Decline and Fall of the American Republic."

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-ackerman-mcchrystal-20100623,0,7659730.story

The author says the President should "take steps to invite the officer corps to rethink constitutional fundamentals." He suggests that "The best way forward is through a presidential commission on civil-military relations."

[libodem]

28. Limpteabags

deserves to be kicked off armed forces radio for outright sedition.

[JackRiddler]

29. How do you explain the brass's attitude to Kennedy, decades before Rush Limbaugh?

Limbaugh is what you call an epiphenomenon, the position of Radio Ranter In Chief found him and he's interchangeable. (Do you think he has special talents?) Look for your answers in the post-WWII rise of empire, restoration of patriarchal culture, and intense anti-Communism. The traitors were all among us, anyone could be one, and obviously the way a traitor shows himself is by having any brains and using too many words and not praying and waving a flag all day. In this worldview Democrats no matter how imperialist are presumed guilty of being weaklings and potential traitors. This has always been a fiercely warlike nation with a rabid extreme. MacArthur and LeMay among others would have started nuclear wars. This is what it takes to play superpower in their minds. This is what Eisenhower (who knew it so well as a member) was talking about when he said: "Beware the military-industrial complex." The Pentagon system took over long ago. On questions of empire, the president has the option of being the cutting edge for starting new wars or being an appendage to the ongoing ones.

Past noon and still no word that Obama has fired McChrystal.

[volvoblue]

30. It has to do with LBJ and Vietnam. Not limpbaugh

LBJ messed up with Vietnam as well as the anti war movement back in the 60s was mostly from the left.
and the attitude against the war became a dislike of all military and that ended up being a prize for the republicans who could squeeze this out for 4 decades.

[onpatrol98]

31. Plenty of democrats in the military

There are plenty of democrats in the military. Heck, the military isn't exactly where the rich spend their spare time. This is still one of the ways many of us tried to pay for college. When I was in the Army, I was probably even more of a leftist than now. It was a decent paying job. It was my way of sparing my parents part of my college tuition that scholarships wouldn't cover. And, I loved my country. This seemed like one way, I could pay my own way with fewer student loans.

There were also plenty of republicans. But, to my mind, it was a lot less partisan than life outside of the military. Of course, that was years ago. So, I don't know about now. I don't want Rush banned. I think they need more choices...not fewer. I think when you have more than Rush...Rush looks and sounds "simple" and clueless.

Now, to be fair, I got a lot more flack for being in the military from democrats than republicans. I've helped fund raise for the local VFW...and you'd be surprised (maybe) how many bad attitudes some of these old war veterans get from people? To me, its shameful. But, hey, you can't tell a political party from a nasty attitude alone. So, I don't know what their political persuasion was.

[quiet.american]

32. When I was in the military, it was Paul Harvey on the radio.

How rich is it that pimple-butt boy Limbaugh, who never served a day and ran from service, is now the "Voice of America" for the armed services.

I often think that the poison that is Limbaugh et al. has already killed the country beyond repair. But Limbaugh doesn't care - he's got his money and his ticket to Costa Rica.

[OregonBi]

34. Ahem....calling Admin Skinner whom recently posted...

...updated DemocraticUnderground.com rules for posting:

"{ } Inflammatory, inappropriate, or over-the-top
- Broad-brush smears toward law enforcement or military service members.
- or other overtly anti-American sentiment."

There are thousands, no, MILLIONS of current and former U.S. Military members, of ALL races, all genders, all sexual preferences that served this nation honorably, got their asses shot off, are 110% Democratic party progressives, and have VOTED for Democratic presidents since the 1960's. My partner and his two gay brothers being three of them.

Your post reflects badly on the true passionate and dedicated mods and members of DemocraticUnderground.com.

So may I respectively submit that your broad brush statement and denigrating statements against the U.S. military and those minorities born in the inner-cities is offensive and that YOUR illusions are only so much horse manure.

Oh by the way, AFN is AMERICAN Forces Network, not Armed Forces Network.
Here is a quarter, buy a clue.

[KoKo]

35. K&R

:kick: