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Glenn Greenwald: The weak, helpess, impotent Presidency

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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:29 PM
Original message
Glenn Greenwald: The weak, helpess, impotent Presidency
This seems pretty constructive. It addresses the ways in which the Obama administration has used the substantial powers of the presidency in some instances and how it has failed to do so in others. A good article for those wanting to understand what tools the Obama administration could employ in the pursuit of liberal goals.

http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/

Monday, Jun 21, 2010 17:22 ET
The weak, helpess, impotent Presidency
By Glenn Greenwald

As I noted earlier today, there is a newly minted Obama apologist meme that has been created and is being disseminated by Obama-defending pundits far and wide: namely, liberals are blaming Obama for too much because the Presidency is actually quite a weak and powerless office, and he's powerless to do most of what liberals advocate. This claim was articulated by Jonathan Bernstein in response to my post documenting how Barack Obama -- by supporting Blanche Lincoln rather than remaining neutral or supporting her primary challenger -- likely swung the election in her favor. I argued that the central role Obama played in Lincoln's race illustrates that Presidents possess substantial means for influencing members of Congress. In describing my argument as "ignorant nonsense that betrays a deep lack of understanding of how the government of the United States works," Bernstein did not bother to address, let alone refute, that extremely formidable presidential leverage that Obama just used to help Lincoln win in Arkansas.

Instead, he broadly asserted that "the idea of an 'Impotent, Helpless President' . . . basic American politics," that "the presidency is a very weak office," and that Obama has no real leverage to influence Democratic members of Congress to support legislation he wants. Since then, a whole slew of Obama defenders have cited Bernstein's "Impotent Helpless Presidency" excuse to argue that progressives expect too much of Obama and that their criticisms of him are unfair, irrational and unwarranted. Today, Jonathan Chait complains that I have only derided and mocked but not responded in detail to this argument. That's basically true, as I find the argument self-refuting, but permit me to change that by responding in detail now.

Initially, this issue originally arose in the context of the health care debate, when progressive critics were complaining that the Obama White House was doing nothing to ensure passage of the public option. In response, Obama defenders insisted that the fault lay not with Obama, but with Democratic members of Congress over whom Obama had no leverage. All year long, they told their readers not to blame Obama for the lack of a public option because there was just nothing the helpless, powerless leader could do. Except now it is conclusively clear that Obama never wanted the public option from the start -- Russ Feingold said as much, and The New York Times revealed that Obama secretly negotiated away the public option in deals with industry representatives very early on in the process. Thus, critics who were complaining that Obama was publicly claiming to want to the public option while ensuring it would not be enacted were correct, while those who kept telling their readers that the fault lay with Democratic members of Congress -- not Obama -- were engaged in pure apologia.

More broadly, after 8 years of Bush/Cheney, the very idea that the Presidency is a weak and largely powerless office is laughable on its face. It's Barack Obama -- not the U.S. Congress -- that is detaining innocent people without trials, targeting U.S. citizens for due-process-free assassinations, secretly ordering covert wars via Special Forces, ordering a "surge" in the nine-year-old war in Afghanistan, and launching cruise missile strikes with cluster bombs in Yemen. The more honest commentators who are invoking this "weak presidency" defense on behalf of Obama -- such as Matt Ygleisas, Ezra Klein, and Scott Lemieux -- acknowledge its basic inapplicability to Terrorism and foreign policy, which accounts for a substantial part of the liberal critique of the Obama presidency. And, for that matter, many of the positive steps Obama has taken -- changes in drug policy, an improvement in tone with the Muslim world, release of the OLC torture memos -- were also actions taken unilaterally using the power of the Presidency.

more...
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tmyers09 Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sadly, the message, no matter what it is, will be attacked,
...for no other reason than for who the messenger is.
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Winterblues Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #1
5. I for one am happy there is a fairly strong Liberal voice out there trying to hold Obama's feet to
the fire..He doesn't name call and just throw out straw men. He states very real problems he sees, with how Democrats and Obama are currently governing, from a Liberal point of view..We could do so damn much better IMO..
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Mathilda Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
26. I only like Krugman and Greenwald
Among top liberal bloggers and journalists. Ezra is a Hyper-Partisan wishy-washy centrist who bashes the Left, Chait is not even liberal if you think about it (Iraq war supporter, Lieberman lover), Dionne is an older Ezra.
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chimpymustgo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:39 PM
Response to Reply #26
43. Please check out Bob Herbert (NYT), Naomi Klein, Matt Taibbi.
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:34 PM
Response to Original message
2. Reads like some bad 4chan troll.
"Hey, Obama defenders, if Obama is president then how come accidentally the whole thing?"
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tmyers09 Donating Member (706 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
18. Why must you always post snark?
Did you even read the article? Probably not.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:19 PM
Response to Reply #18
38. It's The Nature Of The...
:shrug:
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HiFructosePronSyrup Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:41 PM
Response to Reply #18
44. Article was one long strawman.
Snark > Glenn Greenwald.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #44
78. please enlighten -- what's the strawman? what's the conflation - what's the baseline?
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 10:39 PM
Response to Reply #78
87. Are you kidding?
The Pron Syrup Man never, ever,ever,ever responds with anything but one liners and snark. It's his bag.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #87
91. thought i'd put the invite out there -- wouldn't want to be inhospitable.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:36 PM
Response to Original message
3. So now that you know only constructive is allowed, you are going
to try to label hit pieces "constructive."

the Presidency actually is not very powerful. The founders did not want a king. They put things in place so that the POTUS could not do whatever he wanted.

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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Did you miss the term 'unitary executive?'
The article is pertinent
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Has the office evolved at all since the founding of the USA?
nt
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:41 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. Explain this then


White House Guts Reform To Protect CEO Pay


The White House is intervening at the last minute to come to the defense of multinational corporations in the unfolding conference committee negotiations over Wall Street reform.

A measure that had been generally agreed to by both the House and Senate, which would have affirmed the SEC's authority to allow investors to have proxy access to the corporate decision-making process, was stripped by the Senate in conference committee votes on Wednesday and Thursday. Five sources with knowledge of the situation said the White House pushed for the measure to be stripped at the behest of the Business Roundtable. The sources -- congressional aides as well as outside advocates -- requested anonymity for fear of White House reprisal. A White House spokesperson did not respond to a request for comment. (UPDATE: A White House aide tells HuffPost that Jarrett has not contacted anyone on the Hill regarding the proxy issue.)

The White House move pits the administration against House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.), who told Barney Frank (D-Mass.) to stand strong against the effort.

"I met with the Speaker today and she said, 'Don't back down. I'll back you up,'" Frank, the lead House conferee, told HuffPost. "Maxine Waters is very upset, as are CalPERS and others."

...
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kenny blankenship Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:42 PM
Response to Original message
8. That awful Glenn Greenwald! Will he never stop?
I certainly hope he will be on the banned sources list.
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kgnu_fan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I hope not. Obama needs to listen to people's voices because we elected him
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virgogal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:49 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. + 1
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Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #9
28. He DID ask us to hold him to his promises
but when we do that we're called "disloyal" (though I never knew that a loyalty oath was required).
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:15 PM
Response to Reply #28
34. it's actually *more than* just keeping him to his promises, it's about providing political cover
in order than the interests of The People can be heard and addressed -- seeing as how we don't have giant PR firms, thinktanks or lobbyists on our side. All we have are our values and his promises.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:51 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. DU needs an ostrich as a mascot.
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dionysus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:01 PM
Response to Reply #12
63. lol
:spray:
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Mathilda Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:02 PM
Response to Reply #8
21. What part of his piece do you disagree with
If you even read it at all?
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. I believe that was sarcasm. n/t
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. omg -- i think you're correct. so hard to tell these days.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. would be great to see a substantive refutation of the piece, KB.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
10. Honest debate welcomes criticism
And Greenwald is anything but a troll. He's pointing out, among other things, powers that Bush appropriated and misused and asking why Obama has not reversed course in many instances. He's suggesting that more could be done. He's noting that claims of presidential impotence on issues like Gitmo are false, or at least exaggerated.

And as usual, he's got a point.



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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:53 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. i would add that the political process goes far beyond the WH and President Obama, so it behooves us
to examine these contradictory moves and ask "what's behind them." are there political groups that are exerting undue influence...and if so, who, and why. a long look at the Johnson Administration is instructive in this case.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:00 PM
Response to Reply #14
19. Good point, Nashville
Johnson and others, including Clinton, are known for complaining that progressives failed to speak up loudly enough to give them the political cover they needed to do the right thing. Greenwald is doing a service by trying to stir up enough political will to LET Obama fix things. To have an answer to the other powers that be as to why he can't play ball.

Too bad not everyone sees that.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:01 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Obama was handed the administration after "the store" had already been robbed -- we either
figure out who's fencing the goods, or we kiss it all goodbye forever.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. adding -- those who've stolen the process have/had no intention of just handing it back.
it has to be fought for -- and if anything is worth fighting for, this should be it.
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ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 11:24 PM
Response to Reply #19
92. Lyndon Johnson complained because
we weren't strong enough to make him stop the Vietnam war...?

Clinton was bugged because we couldn't make him stop selling out the working class in multiple nations to corporate interest...?

BAD LEFTIES, BAD, BAD, BAD...

You don't really believe that crap, do you???

These guys were corporate tools, was is big money, selling out the working class is big money...they work for the big money -- not us!
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inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:51 PM
Response to Original message
13. K&R for Glenn Greenwald
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ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Excellent article - please to Recommend this post.
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 06:55 PM by ThomWV
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:56 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. i r'd, but was still at nada
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Overseas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 06:56 PM
Response to Original message
17. K&R -- interesting to read beyond the headline -- refutation of the
claim that the Presidency is too weak to effect change it wants.

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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
23. LHD Greenwald hits another foul ball.
:thumbsdown:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:05 PM
Response to Reply #23
27. what's "LHD"?
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:14 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Left Handed Demon?
nt
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:16 PM
Response to Reply #33
35. HAHAHA!! how about Long Horned Devil. Lemon Hussy Doormat. Likewise Horror Dankitude.
Now i'm just being silly.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #33
36. Lurching Hairy Daisies.
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DirkGently Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #27
39. "Lurking Harpy of Doom?"
"Languid Hat Defenestator?"

"Lupine HoloDeck?"

:)
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #27
45. Lord High Douchenozzle n/t
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 07:52 PM by WeDidIt
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Raineyb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. In other words you have nothing but snark.
Typical.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #49
59. No, I have every article his Lord High Douchenozzleness has ever written
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 08:46 PM by WeDidIt
The idiot has no clue about how politics works in the real world.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:24 PM
Response to Reply #59
74. so, go ahead and post a cogent response to this article.
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Vinnie From Indy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 10:42 PM
Response to Reply #74
89. Not gonna happen!
HE has no arguments, no rebuttal. He and his compadres are simply one liner, mindless, argument free snark bombers. It's what they do.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #49
65. I thought Skinner did a Big Post about this kind of Snark Attack today in GD?
I thought I spotted a thoughtful post or two on his thread from the very same folks here snarking against Greenwald. Looks like something you'd see in the DU Lounge with Acronyms and LOL's and jeers.

I guess those New DU Rules...are a work in progress...:eyes:
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #65
76. definitely lounge-worthy.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:32 PM
Response to Reply #45
53. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
inna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #45
77. This "Lord High Douchenozzle" BS is complete idiocy and flamebait.

Disgusting.
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Mathilda Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:06 PM
Response to Reply #23
29. Have you guys noticed that Greenwald critics rarely explain why he's wrong?
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 07:06 PM by Mathilda
They just hit and run. Can you post the excerpts with which you disagree (if you read the piece at all) and explain why?
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:13 PM
Response to Reply #29
32. it's a shame too, b/c all too often the piece isn't read -- it's just screamed at.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:18 PM
Response to Reply #29
37. I doubt most of them ever made it past the headline.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:20 PM
Response to Reply #37
40. or byline.
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WeDidIt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:55 PM
Response to Reply #29
46. Very few of us who would DARE to criticize his Lord High Douchenozzleness
have the free time available to lay out all of his Lord High Douchenozzle's failings.
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. You could start with the just the ones in this piece then.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:25 PM
Response to Reply #48
51. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #46
79. so, DARE to vent your critique here. try to change some minds -- it is a DISCUSSION forum
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #29
60. See post 42. n/t
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #29
67. I just did a defense of Glenn in Post #56..but I doubt it will be read...
and that's why I don't post here much anymore and why many others don't either. Because no one gives a shit.
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 04:26 AM
Response to Reply #29
102. they know he's right
it just offends their sensibilities
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jonnyblitz Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:10 PM
Response to Original message
31. outstanding article k & r.! nt
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glitch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:25 PM
Response to Original message
41. K & R #1 nt
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BzaDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
42. Greenwald and Bernstein/Chait are really talking about different aspects of Presidential Power.
Bernstein and Chait are primarily taking about the President's power (or lack thereof) over domestic policy. Neither even claims that Obama does not have authority in foreign policy.

Yet Greenland spends most of his time attacking an imaginary straw man that claims Obama is impotent when it comes to foreign affairs/terrorism policy. Greenwald's attacks on Obama from that angle are disagreements in policy, not disagreements in power.

To the degree that Greenwald does address domestic policy, he is simply wrong. On the public option, Lieberman was never going to budge, no matter what Obama tried to do. The end. Full stop. There was no point in trying to get the rest of Congress to line up behind a policy that was going to be killed anyway by a Senator with a personal grudge. Threats to remove him from his chairmanship were never going to work (and actually required 60 votes to enact), and he is already going to get a strong liberal opponent for Senate when he is up for re-election.

Obama did use the little leverage he had to actually pass HCR. That was why he supported Lincoln. Of course, Greenwald doesn't support HCR without a public option, but that is again a policy difference (not a difference in perceptions of executive power).
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
47. Memo to Greenwald: "The buck stops here" is no longer operable since our guy won. K&R
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:25 PM
Response to Original message
50. Very hard hitting article
I find it very interesting how the public option was secretly negotiated away with industry representatives very early on. I think a lot of people were complaining about that and rightly so, it was nothing more than a betrayal. Yes indeed. Who knew?






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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:31 PM
Response to Original message
52. K&R
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ProgressIn2008 Donating Member (848 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:36 PM
Response to Original message
54. K&R for Greenwald
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Synnical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
55. Reads about correct to me. n/t
-Cindy in Fort Lauderdale
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:43 PM
Response to Original message
56. In defense of Glenn...I can say that many DU'ers know that Bush/Cheney got EVERYTHING THEY WANTED!
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 09:01 PM by KoKo
And, they even did it after 2006 when we worked hard to get a Dem Congress elected. I know that Waxman, Leahy, Feingold and Conyers plus most of the Black Caucus promised us on the Left many investigations and prosecutions if ONLY we would elect a Democratic House and Senate. We did that (against all odds) and yet once in power and even later with a Democratic President elected against the Computer Voting Machine Odds ...WE WON! WE WON! And......all investigations died...the promises were broken and we fought to the death on Health Care Reform...Insurance Industry WON..and Financial Reform has been watered down to the extent that many hero's for reform from Wall St. have dedicated books and blogs to reporting how the Too BIG too FAIL are TOO BIG TO JAIL. The financial Bloggers are not DU'ers who have been fighting for other causes ...they are people who are IN THE SYSTEM and MADE MONEY but see the whole thing for what it is just like many of us here on the Lefty Blogosphere saw Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld and the NeoCons for what they were in DESTROYING everything we ever believed about our US CONSTITUTION that we were taught from grammar school on up!

So...trash Greenwald if you will...but he is pointing out problems in the System of Governance of America that Bush I, II, Reagan, Clinton and Bush II, Cheney, Rumsfeld and the Neocons and Big Banksters put in place that caused a CRASH that wiped out Savings and Pensions and Homeowner all across America. And they blame it on the "poor who got mortgages they couldn't afford and who are folks who look for "welfare" from our government. NOW Europe Crashes and their Banking System is in Peril! What excuse for Europe? It's because they have HEALTH CARE AND MORE VACATIONS than AMERICANS...And that's what caused all this?
The Beat goes on...and on and on......LIES! And Glenn tries to point out that there's a huge disconnect from what little there is of the MSM these days and what they are promoting from the Think Tanks whose job is to BLAME THE AVERAGE AMERICAN and NOT BIG BUSINESS...NOT FAILURE OF REGULATION WHICH "THEY" (the above mentioned Presidents) GOT RID OF... NOW a GUSHER THAT WILL DESTROY THE GULF OF MEXICO...and on and on an on!
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:38 PM
Response to Reply #56
82. so true. i can't believe that they were more successful in advancing their agenda b/c
they are "better" at what they do. they aren't. so what gives? why are they better at advancing their agenda?
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Autumn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #82
94. Simply because they wanted their
agenda passed. They believed strongly in it.
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OmmmSweetOmmm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
57. K&R
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:46 PM
Response to Original message
58. And yet he can unilaterally order a hit. . . . . n/t
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
61. The title, word choices & tone are a complete turnoff, so any constructive criticism is lost.
I believe Greenwald to be a smart guy with a lot to say, much of it salient, but he increasingly turns me off before the word "go".

This latest reads like not much more than a polemic.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. Yet...you cannot spare the time or words to refute a thing he says and won't read
anyone who expands what he says and his right to say it having to do with the many problems we are facing in America today?

You don't have the time to even post a thoughtful critique? :shrug:
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:13 PM
Response to Reply #64
69. I'm saying his approach to the argument inhibits his ability to attract an audience.
The first step in getting someone to listen to what you have to say is not to repel your readers, no?

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:23 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. Justicia...he has a wide viewing audience. You can't accept that just because you don't find him to
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 09:24 PM by KoKo
your taste that you need to come out and attack his writing putting it down when others find his readings worthwhile? Why not just move along if you don't like reading him...or find him not worth your time? Why would you bother?
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:32 PM
Response to Reply #73
80. So, no criticism of Greenwald is allowed? Only his criticism of the president?
Kinda hypocritical isn't it?
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #80
85. You could have posted where you felt he was wrong for discussion purposes...
No? :shrug: So far all I saw was you attacking Greewald for writing without giving an explanation of why he is wrong. It seemed more a personal attack on Greenwald for his views. If you don't like him then why even read the OP's post? Or comment?
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Justitia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 11:53 PM
Response to Reply #85
93. Sorry you don't like criticism of Greenwald. Ironic, isn't it?
Writing and attracting an audience is what he is PAID to do.

I think he is unnecessarily vituperative in his columns.

That is a criticism of how he does his job.

It seems you have a hard time discerning the difference in my opinion of how he does his job and "personal attack".

Did I call him a huge asshole???

LOL

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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #93
96. Don't both You and I post here on DU to attract an AUDIENCE for OUR own views?
Why else would you be here and why are you not inclusive of "others views?" :shrug:
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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 04:28 AM
Response to Reply #96
103. Ironic, isn't it?
:rofl:
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highplainsdem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
62. K&R
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:10 PM
Response to Original message
66. Cheney Took The Presidency Too Far, Obama Is Reigning It In
Now, you can argue whether you agree with this or not, but it's a bit hypocritical to have been slamming Cheney for a decade for abusing his power but then opine for Obama to mimic him. Is it frustrating that he won't behave as lawlessly as Cheney? Yes. Is it the correct thing for him to do to try to reign in this despotic tendency of Presidents? YMMV.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:11 PM
Response to Reply #66
68. Post #56...
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:15 PM
Response to Reply #68
70. Read It
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 09:16 PM by Beetwasher
I'm Not Trashing Greenwald, I Would Never Do That. He's got a lot of good shit, but I disagree with him on this. Obama's reigning it in, it's obvious and it's not surprising to me. Me? I would be a bit more muscular about things, but I'm not a constitutional scholar nor do I have near his political acumen.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:21 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. Thanks for reading.. I've always been a skeptical, questioning person...so
I don't really have a view that folks might have more common sense than me because they have some title.

But, that's just me. I can understand that many would differ.
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #71
72. If Only Constitutional Law Were Merely About Common Sense
We wouldn't have all these idiotic 5-4 USSC decisions.
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #72
75. Glenn Greenwald is also a Constitutional Lawyer...so that's another opinion..
from one who worked hard like Obama to get that Law Degree in a specialization. But, I understand what you say ...still they do differ.

Peace!
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Beetwasher Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:33 PM
Response to Reply #75
81. Then He Should Know Better Than To Wish That Obama Should Behave As Lawlessly As Cheney
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 09:33 PM by Beetwasher
Or even in a pale mimicry of that lawlessness.
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
83. The presidency is legislatively weak, not executively weak (for lack of a better term.)
If you don't approve of his use of executive power, that is a fairer criticism than disapproving of his failure to get legislation through.

It's hard to know why Blanche Lincoln won; it may well have been because of Obama. But the deeper issue there is whether or not he was right to support her, and if you agree with Nate Silver that she has a substantially better shot than Halter of holding on to the Senate seat in Arkansas (and I have no reason to doubt him), then it was not so unreasonable a decision.

I should add that for all of Greenwald's criticism of his opposition, as a matter of fact the non-anecdotal literature on this subject, that is, the stuff that goes beyond paeans to the alleged persuasive power of Lyndon Johnson and so forth, is pretty clear on the fact that presidents need a non-recalcitrant Congress to pass their agenda, and they cannot just make this happen. Either it is there or it is not. Presidents like Johnson repeatedly got strong Congressional majorities for their agenda; Obama gets extremely close votes.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 10:13 PM
Response to Reply #83
86. In practice, not so much
The administrative agencies have extensive rulemaking authority.

Regulations can be promulgated under the APA that have the same force as statutes- are granted extreme deference by the courts and require a veto proof majority in both houses to overturn.

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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 10:40 PM
Response to Reply #86
88. That's correct, but they have to be granted statutory authority first.
They have flexibility, but not absolute flexibility: their interpretation has to be reasonable. So, for instance, to use an example that is making news right now, the executive branch can offer certain federal benefits to gay federal workers, but it cannot nullify DOMA by decree.

As I said, it is much fairer to criticize the Obama Administration for its use of executive power (in which I would include executive rule-making) than for its failure to pass legislation that is sufficiently left-wing.
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depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 11:10 PM
Response to Reply #88
90. The statutory delegations are generally quite broad- though of course, they can change
Edited on Mon Jun-21-10 11:14 PM by depakid
subject to the President signature.

Also, the standard of review for a regulation isn't reasonableness per se- but whether it's "arbitrary and capricious" and "abuse of discretion."

Rules don't need to be supported by a preponderance of the evidence submitted or any such thing. Indeed, there have been rules upheld where 90% of public comment and the vast majority of the experts disagreed with the agency's action. All that's required is that they have some small not completely bogus finding(s) to hang their hat on.
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WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jun-21-10 09:57 PM
Response to Original message
84. K & R !!!
:kick:
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 05:33 PM
Response to Original message
95. Salon should fire Greenwald for put out this affront to journalistic integrity
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KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #95
97. Can you expound on your views of where Greenwald is WRONG in what he posts at Salon?
I would like to hear some rebuttal...some discussion of what he says. :shrug: You complain but offer nothing that would give any of us who read and find Greenwald's columns on Salon very interesting since he is a Contsitutional Scholar with a background of information he has posted that has seemed to have much credibility.

I would like to hear you counter his Talking Points.
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NJmaverick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 06:36 PM
Response to Reply #97
98. Here read the truth
Edited on Tue Jun-22-10 06:57 PM by NJmaverick
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Forkboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-22-10 06:40 PM
Response to Reply #98
99. And?
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Mathilda Donating Member (37 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 03:08 AM
Response to Reply #98
100. You were asked your own opinion, not the opinion of an Iraq War vocal supporter
Edited on Wed Jun-23-10 03:09 AM by Mathilda
Jonathan Chait hates liberals. We get it. But do you have your own opinion on Greenwald's piece?

By the way, Greenwald responded to Chait's response. what is your opinion about Greenwald's response?

Heck, you didn't even tell us what part of Iraq War's vocal supporter's piece you agree with and why.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 03:29 AM
Response to Reply #100
101. Welcome to DU!
:hi: Don't expect too much. ;)



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Skittles Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jun-23-10 04:30 AM
Response to Reply #100
104. MATHILDA NAILS IT
yes INDEED :hi:
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