I was never a "Bush-Hater"

[G_j]

I wasn't a 'Bush hater' Bush/Cheney offended every principle of justice and humanity I have believed in my whole life. It's not about hating someone. When Fox news called us Bush haters, it was obviously a way to avoid talking about any issues at all.

It was principles that people shared in their outrage. It was sound progressive-humanitarian-egalitarian-ecological-etc. principles that created somewhat of a community here and elsewhere.

The Obama "hater/basher" label is not productive for the very same reasons. The principles/issues many on DU used to rally around in the noble struggle to offer resistance and education to counteract Bush/Cheney, are still in serious play.

Is DU a place where those foundations of what we expressed in our resistance to Bush now become a focus of bickering as opposed to action? Some may remember the "virtual march" the phone-ins, the flowers and lobbying efforts done right here. That created a certain sense of community. Does having Democrats in power narrow the parameters of discussion or action? And for the record, I am not an "Obama Hater".

[hobbit709]

1. I despised Bush more than hated him

[spanone]

2. i've grown to hate bu$h* & cheney with all my heart & soul

what they did to this country is unforgivable

[G_j]

5. yes, but it's what they did to this country

you didn't just wake up and decide you wanted to hate them.

[Winterblues]

28. They did not do it on their own

Remember how many Democrats voted for the Bush tax cuts and how many voted for the IWR and how emphatic they were that "Impeachment was OFF the table"

[NNN0LHI]

3. I hated Bush and his policies

10 percenter here.

Don

[City Lights]

14. Same here. nt

[gratuitous]

4. Oh, I was

Bush, Cheney and the rest of their criminal cabal worked so hard to subvert the Constitution and basic principles of liberty and freedom for their own self-aggrandizement that it would be rude not to hate them. Almost as if you didn't appreciate their efforts to undermine the country, impoverish millions, and ruin America's standing, all while lining their pockets and the pockets of their pals and cronies. They earned it.

[lumberjack_jeff]

6. The fact that I hated Bush

Doesn't invalidate my hatred of his policies.

I like Obama and I hate several of his policies.

[Taverner]

7. I hated the Bush Presidency. Bush himself, meh

[sinkingfeeling]

8. I have no problem with criticism of those same issues. What I get tired off is constant nit-piking.

There are dozens of threads about Obama 'doing nothing' about the Gulf spill, when it is not true that the administration sat on it's hands for weeks. I tire of threads that claim 'Obama supports xxxxx' when it was some cabinet department that issued an opinion.

[tranche]

9. We hated/bashed Bush to weaken him BECAUSE we he went against our principles.

I came to DU daily back then looking for ways to bash Bush. I wanted in every way to tell my friends, family and just about anyone I came into contact with how bad Bush was for the country. I wanted the man weakened so that he could no longer govern effectively. I didn't mind the 6 degrees of separation theories about Bush's evil, because I figured if it got out to the mainstream, then all the better.

Now to Obama, a Democratic President -- this is supposedly our guy. He's closer to ideals then any Republican would ever be. Now I still see a lot of the same methods of hating/bashing that I saw during Bush's tenure and I think to myself, "what the hell"? I don't want to weaken a guy that's closer to me then I've seen in nearly a decade. So yes, it was allright when it was Bush because I wanted the man torn down, and it's no longer allright with me when it's Democratic President Obama.

[Robb]

10. I hate Bush.

Lots of people I know do. If you didn't get to "hate," then your life must've not been as negatively impacted by Bush/Cheney.

As to narrowing the parameters, same BS, different day. Don't be a jerk and you last a long time.

[G_j]

13. "Bush-Hater" was a term coined by the right wing

for us.

That is what I am referring to. I refused to accept that label.

[Robb]

15. Well, so? It's accurate.

It doesn't mean I'm ignorant of the issues. Quite the opposite.

[G_j]

16. NO it isn't accurate

not the way it was framed by the right.

[Robb]

18. Like the way they frame "Muslim"?

Accepting their framing is part of the problem.

[G_j]

19. I am saying that I never accepted it

they coined it, just like the "hate America first" meme.

[Robb]

22. Are you trying to make the point that you hate Obama, but aren't an Obama Hater?

...because you don't accept the framing of a nominalization?

Well, OK.

[G_j]

23. are you purposely missing the point?

I didn't think it was that difficult.
:shrug:

[Robb]

24. Then what, pray tell, do you mean by this:

The principles/issues many on DU used to rally around in the noble struggle to offer resistance and education to counteract Bush/Cheney, are still in serious play.

You make it sound all pretty, but this is Obama = Bush, right? But you don't accept the framing? :D

[G_j]

26. It means exactly what it says

not "Obama=Bush" nice try though..

[laughingliberal]

50. I took it to mean his stand on policies has not changed & he still opposes the same things now. nt

[G_j]

51. it's pretty normal for long time progressives to maintain

an adherence to their basic principles, and address them consistently.
I don't know why that is such a hard idea for some to grasp. It's fair to say, that is what makes a progressive progressive.

[JitterbugPerfume]

11. I still can't stand to look at him

but a very wise DUer once told me to never hate because it destroys you , instead of the one you hate . He said it is ok to dislike intensely though.

I miss oneighty. He was a very wise man.

[G_j]

36. I had forgotten oneighty

where did he go?

[JitterbugPerfume]

54. he died several years ago

[RobertPlant]

12. Bush seemed like a nice guy but his judgment was severely lacking

I would take him any day over a bachmann, king, tancredo etc. His problem was not tyranny but his stubbornness and refusal to admit mistakes.

[havocmom]

17. Point well made.

Too bad it will fly right over the heads that most need to absorb the wisdom of it.

[ixion]

20. k/r

well said. :applause:

[KoKo]

21. Good Point. Calling people "Haters" cuts off discussion, and is tactic used by Trolls

and others who disrupt. Why it isn't recognized as the "tactic" it is after all this time is beyond me.
But, I suppose it is effective and that's why it's used by the Media and here on the Blogosphere.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LWolf]

27. Thanks, G_J.

It's never been about "hate," which is harmful no matter who is doing the hating.

It's always been about principles of justice and humanity.

[G_j]

32. thank you for getting it

I tried very hard to be clear in the Op.



~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I have decided to stick with love. Hate is too great a burden to bear."
Martin Luther King, Jr.

[LWolf]

33. That's a great quote.

If I were still allowed a sigline, I'd be tempted to use it. As a reminder for myself, as well as others.

[G_j]

34. MLK Jr.

as wise and as relevant as always.

[JohnnyLib2]

29. Well said.

"Bot," "hater," etc. etc. are simplistic and pretty much worthless notions, IMO.

[lamp_shade]

30. I was.

[Laelth]

31. I was, and still am, and I am not ashamed to say so. n/t

:dem:

-Laelth

[ismnotwasm]

35. God, I STILL am

I still loathe that motherfucker Reagen and he's dead.

[donheld]

37. A man who takes us into a war for his pleasure brings out the hate in me

Yes I hate him

[treestar]

38. I wouldn't say I hated him

I disagreed with him quite a bit.

I disagree with Obama much, much less than with Bush and this being Democratic Underground rather than freeperville, did not expect disagreement to reach the heights it does here.

And some people here never agree with him, which is starting to look a bit strange. I suppose there are times freepers agreed with Bush but can't see them letting it dominate their board.

[madokie]

39. I can honestly say I never hated anyone until the bush/cheney duo stole the election in '00

Yes I hate their guts for what they did and for what they stand for

[JI7]

40. whatever, i am a Bush hater, i hate Bush and Cheney, still do

[Blue-Jay]

41. Many people don't know the difference between "criticism" and "contempt".

[HughMoran]

43. Yep

[KonaKane]

45. But they do know the difference between critcism and losing in 2010.

Which is what we are facing if we don't get our act together...and pull together.

[HughMoran]

47. I've never felt like claiming you're a Democrat on DU carried a stigma until this year

You might as well call yourself a freeper, the jeering sounds essentially the same.

[Blue-Jay]

49. You might be giving the "Debbie Downers" too much credit.

I'm no Nostradumbass, but I foresee a few congressional Democratic seats lost in November. If the Republicans take control of either the Senate or the House of Reps, I'll eat your middle school PE teacher's underpants.

[HughMoran]

42. You admitted you were in the other thread

So?

[G_j]

44. WTF?

are you talking about?
I never said that

[jonnyblitz]

48. they are all fucking nuts. nt

[William Z. Foster]

46. hate

You have to care a lot about a person to hate them. How did people get so emotionally involved with Bush? Do they identify with the powerful that much, that they then must either hate or love them? They claimed it was his "policies" that caused them to hate him, but they are strangely silent on the same issues now, or are even taking opposite positions from the ones they once took.

[G_j]

53. interesting way to look at it

in reality, there are all types and stripes.
But I also know Bush is hated for causing maybe a million deaths.

What I'm thinking about is that my opposition to Bush/Cheney was not
about hate. Sure, I've hated them, but that doesn't determine my position. I don't oppose them as human beings, my opposition is to their policies and actions.

When RW blow-hards were calling us Bush-haters,
I knew very well what was behind it. It's intellectually dishonest, no matter who does it.

[old mark]

52. I was so disgusted that that jerk was president, I tried my best

to ignore him and all political things for 8 years. Since I also tried to ignore much of the Clinton administration, the Bush I and Reagan administrations, in fact most politics back to LBJ, I ws not very well grounded in national politics.
I dislike almost every politician I have ever met or know much about, from Arlen Specter to some local politicians and state legislators who used to come to our house when I was a little kid.

Mom always told me she would be proud of anything I ever did as long as I didn't go into politics.

mark

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

55. This does not surprise me.

[yurbud]

56. the ''Obama hater'' crap comes from the same lazy PR people as ''Bush hater''

they should have made up a new list of talking points for a new president, or at least the Obama admin should have hired different PR firms than the Bushies did.

But the DLCers among them are so desperate to take over as corporate water boys from the GOP, that they ape their behavior at every opportunity.

[MyNameGoesHere]

57. I do not hate Pres Obama

i just feel better when he doesn't allow the right to punk him. But alas he doesn't even see it coming.

[Jamastiene]

58. Too late to Rec

but not too late to "get" what you are saying and :kick:

It's principles. If our principles are the same now as they were for the eight long Bush years, the continuing of many of Bush's policies should still piss us off, no matter who is doing it. It's not about being "haterzz!1!1!" It's about principles.

So many here will, sadly and obtusely and on purpose, miss your point.