the impending shortage of scientists & engineers is 1 of the longest running hoaxes in the country

[Hannah Bell]

Our science and math test scores are unspectacular, but the problem is not science and math education. Studies show that American students from well-funded schools who come from high-income families outscore all or nearly all other countries on international tests. Only our children in high poverty schools score below the international average. (Payne and Biddle, 1999; Bracey, 2009; Martin, 2009). The US has the highest percentage of children in poverty of all industrialized countries (25%, compared to Denmark's 3%). Our educational system has been successful; the problem is poverty.

- The US ranks at or near the top of the world on all categories related to science and math education, availability of expertise, and creativity: According to the World Economic Federation, the US ranks 5th out of 133 countries in "availability of scientists & engineers," second in "quality of scientific research institutions" and first in "university-industry research collaboration." The US also ranks sixth out of 133 countries in "capacity for innovation," and third in the number of patents for new inventions per capita, slightly behind Taiwan and Japan. (In contrast, China ranks 50th.)

- There is no shortage of science and technology-trained professionals in the United States. In fact, there is a surplus (Teitelbaum, 2007; Toppo and Vergano, 2009; Bracey, 2009). Gerald Bracey, in fact, concluded that "… the impending shortage of scientists and engineers is one of the longest running hoaxes in the country."

http://www.schoolsmatter.info/2010/06/is-there-us-science-education-crisis.html

[pnwmom]

1. Thanks. Good article. n/t

[zipplewrath]

2. Mostly true

I'm not disputing the numbers per se. And I like the focus that the problem is poverty more than anything else.

The only real point I'd make is that the "best and the brightest" aren't necessarily going into these subjects, and more importantly staying there. Law, business, and medicine (which is technically a science) is where they tend to go.

This isn't all that different than it's always been though. Although there was a period when alot of education was around what we would today call "civil engineering", law has always been a major draw for the best educated.

But I also like the conclusion. There are often shortages in SPECIFIC disciplines, mostly because of the changing needs of industry. But overall, we have plenty of trained scientists. So many that they leave the fields quite often for other pursuits.

[raccoon]

3. K&R. nt

[kestrel91316]

4. Everything is a hoax to you, lol

[Hannah Bell]

8. contentless personal attack noted.

[zazen]

5. yet academics have to make believe it's true to get grant money

I've been saying this for years, and didn't know where the sources were to back it up. Thanks so much for some links.

There are so many empty blue ribbon panels decrying "STEM education" and talking about the crisis in "preparing students for the 21st century." Foundations spend millions feeding the same recycled Board members smoked salmon and blanched asparagus at the receptions where they congratulate themselves on publishing reports that no one reads except as a citation to justify requesting even more grant funding.

[eppur_se_muova]

6. Such claims help to keep the scientific labor market oversaturated with supply.

Try getting a job in any scientific field, and you'll find there are so many applicants for each position the companies can really afford to pick and choose, to an absurd degree -- most ads list so many job requirements no one can satisfy them all, so the employers are "justified" in low-balling salaries when they do make an offer.

[glowing]

7. Yes, its a myth. Many, like myself, are not utilized. Unless you want a job

working for oil or pharma, its hard to get a job.. AND now you also compete with H1-B so much fun.

[JCMach1]

9. Exactly right, there is a surplus of engineers everywhere....

And they are minting them by the hundreds of thousands in China and India every year.

Unless you are the best of the best in this field, I would not recommend that a child of mine go into this field.

[hlthe2b]

10. Perhaps it is a shortage of COMPETENT scientists/engineers

I believe that even Liberty University (that bastion of "science advancement") may have programs... Doesn't me they are putting out quality students.

[Greyhound]

14. Or perhaps it's a flat out lie perpetuated to keep wages down and tuition high. n/t

[Manifestor_of_Light]

11. Too many engineers, not enough well paying jobs.

And a law degree does not guarantee a job.

I earned a Juris Doctor in 1985 and have never gotten a job using it, even as a super-legal assistant and former court reporter.

They sold us a bill of good when they said we needed to study engineering and tech to beat the russians in the space race. They wouldn't pay for R&D either, so we didn't develop things like flat screen TVs.

:grr:

[Name removed]

12. Deleted message

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[Manifestor_of_Light]

13. I worked hard, earned multiple degrees and it got me nowhere.

We weren't wealthy but we were propelled into the middle class by the GI Bill and a 4% VA mortgage on a house, after the war.

And the parental units insisted I get a four year degree and go to grad school if i wanted to (I did --got a doctorate in law.)

Hell, I got a biology degree in 1979, and heard that they needed science teachers in the high schools, that majored in math and science. I graduated from the best pre-med college in the state of Texas. I couldn't find a job teaching high school or even junior high school science.

So much for that line of bullshit -- hasn't worked for me for thirty years.


Same thing with DH and his math/physics degrees. Went into the oil bidness, hated it, and got laid off January 2, 1993 -- because a Democrat had been elected president, and undoubtedly the economy was gonna COLLAPSE. :wtf:

[Hannah Bell]

15. "wealthy" families are more likely stable? um, not exactly.

their wealth is more stable, that's the main difference.