Why hasn't the federal government seized control of the BP oil spill?

[Hugabear]

It's nice to see the White House and Congress talking tough. Oooooh, we're gonna kick BP's ass! We're gonna hold them accountable! We're gonna make them pay for all the damage they've caused! We're gonna take them to court! We're gonna put their execs in jail! :sarcasm:

Meanwhile, the oil continues to gush as BP tries one failed experiment after another. Fuck them. They have too much of a vested interest in this, with their desire to salvage as much of their precious oil as possible. The minute the rig exploded and oil started to pour into the Gulf, we should have declared it a national threat, a national emergency, whatever, taken control and kicked BP aside.

This isn't a GOP versus Democrat thing. This isn't a Tea Party versus Progressive thing. I couldn't give a flying fuck what Beck, Limbaugh, and other right-wing hatemongers are saying. This represents a very real threat to an economy that's already staggering, barely clinging to life. This could very well represent a death-blow to places along the Gulf that rely heavily upon fishing and tourism. Once the oil reaches the Florida Keys, I don't see how any of the people living and working down there could possibly weather this - this is the ONLY thing they have going for them down there. This could very easily wind up being worse than any hurricane to pass through.


I want ACTIONS, not more tough words!

[rrneck]

1. Much like the dog that chased the car

I don't know what the government would do with it after they seized it.

[Hugabear]

7. Perhaps we could have been trying to stop the flow of oil?

I know that might sound snarky, but part of the problem with BP's attempts is that they've been trying to stop the flow without completely sealing it off. They absolutely do not want to lose access to whatever oil is left down there.

If the federal government were in control, we wouldn't be bound to such restrictions. We would have a lot more flexibility and freedom to pursue various options. We could bring in outside unbiased experts to develop a way to shut if off.

I'm not saying that we would have had any more success, but at least it wouldn't be because we were trying to save the damned thing for ourselves.

[sharp_stick]

16. How exactly?

The only known way to stop this thing is with the relief wells. The Government is not in possession of magic oil well stopping technology unless that's what they've been working on at Groom Lake since the Stealth program?

Seriously though, there are no other options. Unfortunately the best underwater oil engineers work for the oil companies, there isn't any demand for them anywhere else.

[Statistical]

20. The only proven method to stop gusher is relief well. Period.

Outside experts isn't going to change that.


Some history:
Australian major oil blowout. Relief well was only thing that stopped flow after 4 months.
Mexican major oil blowout. Relief well was only thing that stopped flow after 9 months.
Iranian major oil blowout. Relief well was only thing that stopped flow after 26 months.
American major oil blowout. Relief well was only thing that stopped flow after ??? months.

Starting to see the trend.


In each case (including BP) a variety of methods were tried on the ocean floor to slow, stop, reduce the leak. They mostly failed. They failed for BP, they failed for the Mexcians, they failed for the Australians.


Too much pressure, too much flow.

The ONLY proven method to kill a blowout of this magnitude is concrete injection via relief well. PERIOD.

BP started moving relief well rig into place day after the DWH sank. The only problem is it is going to take 50-60 more days to complete relief well.

The relief well WILL completely and permanently kill the flow and this well. This well will NEVER be a production well.

This idea of "saving the oil is silly. The oil is very safe under the ground. It will only go up in value as price of oil rises over the next couple decades.

Anything BP does on the surface is simply mitigation, an attempt (maybe futile one) to reduce the amount of oil spilled.

If you know the well is leaking x and it will take 100 days to drill relief well then unless you do something you will end up with 100x oil in the Gulf. BP goal until relief well is completed is to simply reduce that by some fraction. Maybe by 1/3 (66x in the Gulf), maybe by half (50x in the Guld), maybe but very unlikely it is 90% (10x in the Gulf).

Anything less than 100x is better than doing nothing right?

Would you rather BP just sit back and say:
"relief well will be completed in 52 more days. We are stopping all attempts to slow the flow and will simply wait 52 days"?

[gateley]

32. +1 This should be its own thread - excellent. nt

[Nuclear Unicorn]

37. Gonna +1 this

Rational heads must prevail.

It does no good to say BP wants oil spilling because even if they were going to attempt to tap that deposit again in the future they wouldn't use that particular well anyway.

A new well is the only thing that would make sense whether you just want to stop the gusher or save the profits.

Of course once the well is stopped suing the living crap out of BP until it is effectively "ours".

[rrneck]

27. I'm all for nationalizing energy resources

but I just don't think we've got the equipment for this one. If the government stepped in and took it over, they would have to hire another bloodsucking corporation to actually make the assesments and do the work.

BP is a lot more worried about having to pay for all the damage they have done than about getting to the oil. All they have to do is punch another well and keep sucking it out of the ground. They're just trying to keep this fiasco from costing them much more than petty cash, which is about all it's going to cost them so far.

[Lost4words]

2. our govt is bought and paid for by these multinational corporations

dont expect anything other than tough talk.

[Richardo]

3. What actions do you want? Relay your ideas to the US Department of Mile-Deep Drilling

They should have stepped in right away.

That said, proceed with your impotent tantrum.

[spanone]

4. and the feds would do what after they seized it?

[BeFree]

13. Sell the assets

Other oil companies would be happy to buy some primo assets.

And it will teach other companies to not fuck around with us any longer.

As it stands, the US is going to lose $$ big time. Why wait any longer to start recouping some of our losses? Knowing BP, if left to their own devices, will screw us over and leave the US holding the bag.

[derby378]

5. I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit

It's the only way to be sure.

Yeah, yeah, I know, but we're running out of options for sealing that leak, spill, or whatever it is. Heat equivalent to that of the sun's core temperature ought to do it. Now we're stuck with a choice of how large we want the Dead Zone to be.

[Scuba]

6. And if that didn't work...

...BP could wash their hands of all responsibility.

[derby378]

10. Nah, we could still stick them with the bill

It was their faulty rig that caused the spill in the first place, so we can still bill them for intervention up to and during the nuke event. Afterwards, however, it's all on the taxpayer.

[Scuba]

15. you made my point...

...I can see the quote now: "we almost had it solved when the American government stepped in and made it worse" - Tony Hayward

[derby378]

17. True, but how many people are going to keep listening to Mr. I Want My Life Back?

Hey, Tony? We want our Gulf back.

Still, you raise a good point. Hayward will try to spin the PR machine as though his credit rating depended on it.

[Scuba]

18. The judge might believe him, or at least ....

... have to concede that he could be right.

Of course the judges at any trials may likely to be corrupt too, so ...oh damn, oh damn, oh damn.

[derby378]

21. All those Bush appointees...

I fear you are all too correct. Yikes.

[Statistical]

22. Nice Aliens reference. Totally went over most of the responders heads.

Game over man!

[meeshrox]

24. I really hope you forgot the sarcasm thing-y! nt

[derby378]

25. Well...

I wish I did, but if the gusher cannot be contained, we may have to determine which would cause less harm to the Gulf ecosystem, radioactivity or crude oil. Both are carcinogens, both are persistent, and both tend to roll with the waves.

I hate playing the "Choose Your Poison" game.

[meeshrox]

26. There are many more problems with a nuke...

I have expounded on at least three other threads this week about this ridiculous idea. But, I think that Michio Kaku said it best: "who needs radioactive tarballs?" Really, I would prefer to keep them just toxic!

[alc]

8. even though the epa is required to have a plan

it seems like they don't. until the white house KNOWS a way to fix it, BP should be left with responsibility. If they had been removed a month ago they would claim they were days from having it fixed and everything since then is the governments fault for replacing them.

I think it's a mistake to publicly talk about legal proceedings and kicking ass since we should want everyone at BP focused on fixing the problem rather than hiding things from investigators and covering their ass. Everyone from CEO down to engineers is no doubt more careful about what they do or say now than they were 2 days ago and it would be best if they were free to discuss everything with our government (possible reasons, known defects that could affect how a fix will perform, etc)

[LuvNewcastle]

9. I thought Obama said a while back

that the administration is in control in the Gulf and that BP is following his orders. He also said that the only reason we're still using BP is because they have the equipment and expertise to remedy the situation, while the government does not.

[notesdev]

11. Because DC is out of touch

except they seem to touch a lot of BP campaign cash, that they're in touch with

[havocmom]

12. Yep. If you or I stood in a public place with a case of oil & started pouring...

We would be stopped immediately, wouldn't we? There would be no 'Please make this stop. We aren't going to take over what is happening and see for ourselves how much oil you have on you to pour in this park, but please stop. Pretty please?'

And we would likely be in jail pronto, or at least up in front of some magistrate. We would not be allowed to fail to show at any official proceedings. It wouldn't matter that our schedule was busy and the appearance dates might conflict with other things in our lives.

It's bad enough that the world CONTINUES to pay very high price in political instability due to what BP wanted done in Iran all those years ago. Now BP kills 11 men, a few industries local people depended on for their livelihoods, and destroyed a huge ocean body and we see government doing 'Please...'

Fuck this shit. Haul some people in for questioning before they have time to get their stories straight with their lawyers. Treat them like the criminal suspects they are. No excuses that they don't have time or don't want to.

Collect the evidence. Stop taking the criminals' word for everything. They are still lying. Yank them from the scene. There are other oil people; let them in to help gather evidence. Let the scientists in, the ones representing the people, not BP.

You or I would be in jail for pouring a case of oil on the ground. A little equal justice would be a start in dealing with this somewhat larger oil contamination.

[blindpig]

14. It's capitalism

In this society Capital is superior to Government. Profits before people, the environment, the future.

Kill Capitalism

[nashville_brook]

40. it's suicide.

[nashville_brook]

41. it's suicide.

[Individualist]

19. because we have government of, by and for the corporations.

[meeshrox]

23. Umm...seizing BP would be illegal

because of laws passed after Exxon Valdez. Oh, if only Obama knew how to follow in Bushie's footsteps on that front! :sarcasm:

There is nothing the federal government can or should do other than prosecute and deliver aid to the citizens (aid taken from the responsible parties).

[volvoblue]

28. I may have something to do with the fact that it is a British Company

Besides, just taking over may present problems.
the problem I am finding is that everyone seems to know the answers to it all and thinks they can do it better.
However, not many know what the laws are and what kind of things can and cannot be done.
We are not the experts

[maryf]

29. But there are experts, and there are ways...

but its all about the profit loss, the cut cost measures, "hmmm, what's the best way to fix this and profit from it too..."

It's called capitalism, kill it before we are completely gone...

[HughMoran]

30. Because they have?

Ignorance is no excuse.

[nashville_brook]

31. link?

[ProgressiveVictory]

33. because taxpayer money would be used to help clean up?

[nashville_brook]

34. already in Keys -- this is NNW of Marathon (dial-up warning -- large pic, sorry)

[FiveGoodMen]

35. Same reason I haven't fired my boss.

[nashville_brook]

36. Univ of Central FL economist: 200,000 Florida jobs lost (concentrated on coast)

http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/06/09/1670269/oil-disaster-could-cost-florida.html

(Losing 200,000 jobs sucks in terms of the whole state -- but these jobs would be concentrated in the narrow coastal areas (think Sanibel, Key West, Panama City Beach) -- places that are historically marginal in terms of economic stability. -- brook)

Oil spill disaster could cost Florida 200,000 jobs
If oil ruins beaches up and down Florida's coast, it would cost the state nearly 200,000 jobs, according to a new report. With all beaches open, the Sunshine State is a long way from that nightmare scenario.


If Florida suffers a nightmare scenario of oil soaking its Gulf Coast, the economic cost could top $10 billion and put about 195,000 people out of work, according to a new report.

The grim estimates from a University of Central Florida economist involve fairly simple math: Take the value of tourism on Florida's western coast and cut it in half.

The economist, Sean Snaith, said a 50 percent drop in tourism and related spending seemed reasonable should Florida suffer a massive, direct hit from the Gulf oil spill. Still, he acknowledged it's hard to predict the consequences of a nightmare scenario.

(snip)

[nashville_brook]

38. ...

[nashville_brook]

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