a rant

[Beer Snob-50]

i have always thought that we in the progressive camp were more intellectually honest than those in the conservative camp but i am rethinking this.

we have railed against the tea baggers weeding out the more progressive members of the republican party to make the party lean more right. we are now doing the same but trying to make the Democrats lean more left.

we rail against conservatives who are rigid in their religious beliefs and scoff at anyone who doesn't believe as they do and yet we call those of us who are Catholic accomplices to child molesters and murderers.

I guess it is only wrong when one doesn't believe as you do.

[Lost4words]

1. Im sorry, did you have anything to say??

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HughMoran]

11. sniper

[Peacetrain]

2. You know, that mirror you just held up.. is going to cause some to

blow a gasket.

But not me..because the hierarchy in the Catholic Church needs to be held accountable for its failures, is not the same as the parishioners, and some just have a horrible time separating the two.

Likewise for Muslim congregants. They are being held accountable for their extremes in the faith body, as if somehow all of them embrace jihad.

[Beer Snob-50]

3. exactly.

it is the leaders of the various factions that need to be held accountable. those of us who are life long catholics and believe in the dogma of the church are just as disgusted with those in charge who flush that same dogma done the old toilet.

[rurallib]

4. I am not sure where you are going with this but let me respond

My views have not changed greatly since the my young days. At that time I believed
that unions were a good thing, but their leadership needed to be watched;
I believed that health care should be a national priority and should never be denied, nor should it ever be such that it would bankrupt a person or family;
I believed that education was a small price to pay to keep our society moving forward and that society as a whole should invest in education through 4 years of college;
I believed that we have but one earth and we had best take good care of it;
I believed that war was to be used only as a last resort.
Finally, corporations or any other agregators of money must be watched closely and regulated lest they get out of control.
I still believe those things. Once these were very moderate even slightly right wing views. Remeber Nixon offered a national health care policy and a minimum annual income. And I think that most of what I say is the essence of what the Democratic Party is supposed to stand for. Or to paraphase my friend the state rep: jobs, health care, education.

When Dick Nixon and Barry Goldwater led the Republicans to the southern strategy, there were a lot of Eisenhower Republicans who no longer felt at home in the republican party, many drifted into the Democratic party.
These Eisenhower now democrats have reshaped the party such that they no longer fight for unions and compromise on education and health care. And the democratic party has accepted this as a price for winning elections. I believe it is time for us to return to the basic values that have shaped the Democrats since FDR.
But to do so won't be easy. I still believe that when our values are given a fair hearing we are the values of 70% of the country. But thanks to media take over, we can't get a fair hearing. And half of the elected democrats have no interest in allowing a fair hearing as it would cut down on their bribes from industry.


So if you are concerned about a purge or something as evidenced by Lincoln in Arkansas I say it is bound to happen.

There are in reality 4 parties in this country.
- Those of us who were once middle of the road are now considered way lefty. Many of us believe that government can be a force for good.
- the Eisenhower Repubs and and so called Reagan Dems make up a middle that to me is now on the right of the scale. They are somewhat socially liberal, but have been so scared about taxes and other boogies that the Repubs shake all the time, that they feel that government is nothing but a bad organization.
- conservatives. They don't really conserve, but exploit. I would say this is Boehner/ McConnells of thge world. Business can do no wrong.
- baggers - far right on all things. Want no government, yet wants all the benefits of government; wants no taxes.

Having said all that, I see our current situation is tilted way to much right. I see nothing wrong with Democrats primarying a sitting senator who constantly votes against what should be core democratic values.

Two things that greatly mitigates against our government returning to a center are
- media ownership
- money in politics. One other thing I have always believed in was public financing of elections.

[ieoeja]

5. Me too.

Childhood friends claimed I turned liberal after moving to the city. So we went through the hot button issues one-by-one. They were forced to admit that they had completely reversed their position on every issue except the only one on which we still agreed. Of course, they then suggested that they must have matured....

[Beer Snob-50]

7. great post

but from many posts on this site, i read people upset that if more of those on the left are not nominated they will simply not vote. is not a bill clinton or barack obama far far superior to a george bush?

[rurallib]

9. In Iowa we are in situation where our Governor has crapped on his

natural constituency regularly. Yet he is much more preferable than the repub, Terry Branstad.
But I sure would much prefer a choice between a true democrat and a republican.
A democrat who will back labor and education and the environment and health care for all without enriching corporations.
- and someone who builds the infrastructure so small, competitive businesses can thrive.

If you look back at history, business, especially small business, thrives under democrats. That is because we build infrastructure, we mitigate some of the disastrous downsides of start-ups and it used to be we had tax structures that encouraged starting a business.
Republicans only help huge business and that usually by cutting their taxes or giving them money that they proceed to sit on.

See - the reason I am a democrat is that democratic fiscal policies have always been by far the best for this country. The single most economically sound measure that could be passed RIGHT NOW is medicare for all. This would free up potential entrepeneurs from the fear of an illness wiping them out.
The second most important piece would be card check. Re-establishing unions would put money into the hands of people that will spend it. When one guy is sitting on a pile of money, he doesn't create much demand in the market.

Look up how this country does under dems versus repubs.
And well past time for Obama to become a real democrat.

[ieoeja]

6. You do realize that we are upset about failing to nominate ... a CONSERVATIVE yesterday, yes?

Bill Halter is a conservative. All the progressives supporting Halter knew that. But they supported him anyway because they hoped he would be less conservative than Lincoln.

You want to "compare" that to Teabaggers? You should instead "contrast" that to Teabaggers. They are not purging the Republican party of progressive members as you incorrectly stated. They are purging the party of solid conservatives, and replacing them with radical Rightists.

Equating progressive support for a moderately conservative Democrat over a moderately conservative Democrat to teabagger support for radical Rightists over staunch conservatives is, to use your words, intellectually dishonest.

[Beer Snob-50]

8. i apoligize,

i meant to put progressive members in quotation marks.