Someone is attempting to free a tuna in your fishing net...

[HughMoran]

Poll question: Someone is attempting to free a tuna in your fishing net...

Is it legal to apply deadly force in an attempt to stop them?

Note that there is no threat to the health or well being of the person potentially applying the deadly force to protect their property.

[Electric Monk]

1. What if it's actually a dolphin in the tuna net? How much does that change the picture?

Not that I'm anti-tuna, but I think dolphins are even better.

/flamesuit engaged

[LARED]

2. Are you in international waters? nt

[nannah]

3. another thread on this topic

that offers an interesting perspective.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8497805

edited to put in correct link. thanks to hughmoran for heads up!!

[HughMoran]

4. How is the Euro value related?

:shrug:

[nannah]

7. ooops, wrong link. here is correct link

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8497805

[azul]

5. Are you in a lawless world?

Have you read this book?:

Lawless World: America and the Making and Breaking of Global Rules
by Philippe Sands

~snip

By far the most important body of international law concerns trade and overseas investment. Sands shows how rules governing overseas investment began to take shape in the 1960s as a direct response to the emergence of the newly independent former colonies and a conscious attempt to shackle their political freedom. It is these laws - secretive, hidden from view and, above all, binding - that have underpinned the neoliberal globalisation project. The chapters on trade and investment reveal how biased these rules are in favour of the west, and how they are made and exercised in institutional recesses that are unaccountable, even to cabinets, let alone parliaments, and utterly invisible to the public eye. This is the nexus of corporate, bureaucratic and judicial power.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2005/mar/26/highereducation.news

[taterguy]

6. Why the fuck is there tuna in my fresh water fishing net?

Has the world gone mad?

[kenny blankenship]

8. Someone is fishing tuna to the point of extinction...

is it ethical to apply non-deadly force in an attempt to stop them?

The article posted recently concerning the attack on the Greenpeace activist, presents the statistic that stocks of some heavily fished tuna species, such as the bluefin or "red" tuna, are down 80% in the Mediterranean, which is not that different from reports coming from other tuna fisheries around the world.

RED tuna is now on the brink of extinction, scientists have warned.
http://www.theolivepress.es/2010/04/02/redfin-tuna-reaches-crisis-point/

Population levels are now classed as critically low after numbers plummeted to just 15 per cent their former levels. The growing popularity of delicacies sushi and sashimi not only in Japan, but also in the United States and Europe has been blamed for the grave situation.

Now, more than 150 countries will gather on March 25 to debate the future of the endangered fish at the Convention on International Trade in Endangered Species (CITES). Europe and the United States are calling for redfin tuna – heavily fished in the Mediterranean – to be placed on the list of species threatened by extinction.

Such a move would effectively prohibit catching the species for purely commercial gain by 2011. Yet, this severe move is heavily opposed by Japan, which is hoping to garner enough support from a third of countries present in order to block the measure.

“Governments must safeguard the future of redfin tuna, otherwise a species of huge historical importance will be lost forever,” said Sergi Tudela, from WWF. Although international fishing quotas have been drastically reduced in recent years to protect the ailing species, critics say they are still insufficient.

They point to the still widespread illegal fishing practices and overexploitation that are still commonplace.
Redfin tuna catches were twice the levels legally permitted in 2007 and four times higher than the quantity recommended by experts.
-=-=-=-=-

Fishing the great tuna may have been sustainable back in the days when it was done like you see it being done in the film selections available at the link below, and the fish could only be sold in local markets.

http://deleuzecinemaproject1.blogspot.com/2010/01/eruptions-of-god-roberto-rossellini_28.html
(watch the two flash clips below the sentence: "And she is horrified by the gruesomeness of Tuna fishing.")

Today however, the prevalence of shipping on ice or freezing meats to be shipped around the world has destroyed any semblance of sustainability in tuna fishing - even if the fishing was still being done in the traditional way.

[jp11]

9. It depends.

Have I lost half of my fishing season for some reason? Have I been working like a dog on a tuna boat for several days trying to cram a month of fishing into half that time? Is my fishing during tuna season the primary source of my fishing income, or have I done 'alright' in the other seasons I've fished? Will I have opportunities to fish more this year? How are my finances? How is my family? Has this person or people like them been harassing me while I've been fishing? Have other people who've harassed me threatened me with physical force, deadly or not? Am I sick of being bothered by people who think what I do for a living is evil and wrong so they pick on me and not the buyers of the product, the government that demands it or makes it legal? Do they pick on me because they know there is little I can do in comparison to a government with little freedom or tolerance for the kind of behavior they'd exhibit on the open sea?


Is it legal, I don't know maritime law, so I have no clue. But the above contribute to the mindset of someone who has to deal with the kind of person who'd try and free a fish when no laws are being broken, and contributes the stupid decision a fisher might make in trying to stop them, either directly using force on them or by accident, say in trying to hit their boat.

According to the AFP report, Frank Hewetson, 45, was trying to free tuna from a commercial fishing net in a protest on Friday afternoon when the fishermen threw the hook at the Greenpeace dinghy he was in and which pierced his left leg, he said. Greenpeace originally said he was harpooned.

“I managed to pull the hook out myself,” Hewetson told AFP. “It was very painful.” The hook “got caught between the bone and the muscle,” the London resident said.

The environmental group said that Hewetson and other Greenpeace activists were trying to lower the side of a purse seine net with sand bags to free the fish when the confrontation occurred.

Hewetson said the fishermen used the grappling hook to pull his boat close to theirs, then “began beating us with sticks,” without causing any serious new injuries.

http://www.independent.com.mt/news.asp?newsitemid=107258

[HughMoran]

10. ...on whether one is in a psychotic killing mood or not.

I get it.

[Paladin]

12. Yeah, I Get It Too, "jp 11". (n/t)

[KittyWampus]

11. Here where I live it's legal to carry a gun and use it if you are checking your lobster pots.

[tabasco]

14. No, it's not.

Not if you live where your profile says.

Are you mistaken or are you a liar?

[HughMoran]

15. Justifier of murder I'd guess

Can you imagine someone shooting someone off Long Island and saying "I saw them trying to pilfer my lobster pot".

So, basically you can kill anybody you want, and as long as there's no witnesses, you can claim they were "stealing your stuff"

DU now has a right-wing frontier justice murderer justifying band of wackos.. :eyes:

[Maine-ah]

18. I don't know about LI but it happens up here in Maine.

not saying it's right, because there are legal ramifications for frigging with someone's gear, but it does happen.

[KittyWampus]

20. Are you calling me a "justifier of murder"?

[HughMoran]

22. Nope.

Unless you think it's legal to kill an unarmed person who is posing no threat to you.

That's not even legal in Texas. Read the law.

[KittyWampus]

21. I MIGHT be mistaken but you are definitely obnoxious.

[Obamanaut]

13. How about poking the thief in the leg with a sharp object. That isn't deadly force. nt

[tabasco]

19. Au contraire, mon frere.

A knife attached to the end of a pole is most certainly a deadly weapon.

[Obamanaut]

23. Deadly weapon, but is a poke in the leg deadly force? Is the leg

pokee alive or dead?

[kenny blankenship]

26. A jagged cut to the femoral artery (that's in your leg sweetie) can kill

It can kill you as quickly as cutting your throat - dead in 3 minutes.

[Obamanaut]

32. Self delete - not worth the effort

[HughMoran]

16. So 20% of DU thinks it OK to simply say "they were trying to steal my shit"

as they drag the dead body into the police station?

So all that outrage over the police shooting unarmed subjects was just feigned outrage. OK, I get it now. :eyes:

[tabasco]

28. 33% now.

What a freeper-infested rats' nest DU has become.

[HughMoran]

29. Well, according to below, if it's not endangered you can murder the person in cold blood

Judge, jury and executioner. Sickening. :puke:

[HughMoran]

17. We used to think cutting off a thief's hand was cruel and unusual

Now "fuck it - harpoon them or hack them up Rwandan style - humane treatment of our fellow man is so passe.

[RedCappedBandit]

24. No idea if it's actually legal somewhere but it clearly shouldn't be.

[HughMoran]

25. It's not

People are enjoying the anonymity of a poll to make it seem like DUers are batshit crazy.

[Odin2005]

27. If the fish is endagered? No. If the fish is not? Yes.

[Lucian]

30. It's a sad state of affairs when people think property is worth more than a human life.

[JonLP24]

31. I wouldn't

Then again I didn't touch the guy that walked off with my cigarette when I gave him a drag which he asked for several years ago which I enjoy more than Tuna(I hate the taste). However I did answer the question with a tasty fish in mind like Trout and I still wouldn't do anything.