Police are using armored vehicles in Pennsylvania?

[shance]

Police are using armored vehicles

Associated Press


After six people were shot in the city's Homewood neighborhood in less than 24 hours, Pittsburgh police rolled in with a 20-ton armored truck with a blast-resistant body, armored rotating roof hatch and gunports.

No guns or drugs were seized and no arrests made during the sweep in the $250,000 armored vehicle, paid for with Homeland Security money. But the show of force sent a message.

Whether it was the right message is a matter of debate.

With scores of police agencies large and small, from Lexington, Ky., to Austin, Texas, buying armored vehicles at Homeland Security expense, some criminal justice experts warn that their use in fighting everyday crime could do more harm than good and represents a post-9/11, militaristic turn away from the more cooperative community-policing approach promoted in the 1990s.

When the armored truck moved through the Homewood neighborhood late last year, residents came out of their homes to take a look. Some were offended.

"This is really the containment of crime, not the elimination, because to eliminate it you have to address some of the social problems," complained Rashad Byrdsong, a community activist.

Law enforcement agencies say the growing use of the vehicles, a practice that also has its defenders in the academic field of criminal justice, helps ensure police have the tools they need to deal with hostage situations, heavy gunfire and acts of terrorism.

But police are also putting the equipment to more routine use, such as the delivering to warrants to suspects believed to be armed.

"We live on being prepared for `what if?'" said Pittsburgh Sgt. Barry Budd, a memer of the SWAT team.

Critics say that the appearance of armored vehicles in high-crime neighborhoods may only increase tensions by making residents feel as if they are under siege.

Most departments do not have "a credible, justifiable reason for buying these kinds of vehicles," but find them appealing because they "tap into that subculture within policing that finds the whole military special-operations model culturally intoxicating," said Peter Kraska, a professor at Eastern Kentucky University and an expert on police militarization. The military-style approach "runs a high risk of being very counterproductive."

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070508/ap_on_re_us/police_armored_trucks_1&printer=1;_ylt=A0WTUZlVwUBGbagAXQhH2ocA

[hobbit709]

1. What worries me

is that sooner or later some crazy fool will plant an IED.

[MadHound]

2. Ah yes, the militarization of the police proceeds apace.

This is the direction that the police were headed in before 911, and that just gave them a boost both in moral and in money. Now instead of having public servants patroling our streets, we'll have military personell watching over us at all times.

[no_hypocrisy]

3. Starting to remind me of "Escape from New York".

[rkc3]

9. I saw it in town the other day and thought the same thing.

This is Pittsburgh for shit's sake.

But then again, investors are trying to take over the Hill District in favor of a casino. A show of force like this will put the locals in their place.

[Tandalayo_Scheisskopf]

4. What worries me about this is...

That as the events of May 1 and the LAPD have shown in such stark relief, we may not be able to trust the average police force to use these sorts of tools responsibly.

Sorry, but my trust for most police forces is essentially non-existent these days.

[krispos42]

5. The increasing militarization of the domestic police

Now it's become unacceptable for an officer to risk their lives doing the routine portions of their job, so it's Kevlar helmets, full body armor, stun grenades, and automatic rifles at the drop of a hat.

"To protect and serve" includes not scaring the citizenry shitless every single minute of every single day.

SOLDIERS AND POLICE are supposed to be different. Soldiers are aimed at enemies from outside the country. They are trained to kill those enemies, and their supporters. In fact, “killing people and breaking things” are their main reasons for existence.

Police look inward. They’re supposed to protect their fellow citizens from criminals, and to maintain order with a minimum of force.

It’s the difference between Audie Murphy and Andy Griffith. But nowadays, police are looking, and acting, more like soldiers than cops, with bad consequences. And those who suffer the consequences are usually innocent civilians. The trend toward militarizing police began in the ’60s and ’70s when standoffs with the Black Panthers, the Symbionese Liberation Army, and the University of Texas bell tower gunman Charles Whitman convinced many police departments that they needed more than .38 specials to deal with unusual, high-intensity threats. In 1965 Los Angeles inspector Daryl Gates, who later became police chief, signed off on the formation of a specially trained and equipped unit that he wanted to call the Special Weapons Attack Team. (The name was changed to the more palatable Special Weapons and Tactics). SWAT programs soon expanded beyond big cities with gang problems.

<snip>

Thus, the sheriff’s department in landlocked Boone County, Ind., has an amphibious armored personnel carrier. (According to that county’s sheriff-elect, the vehicle has been used to deliver prescriptions to snow-bound elderly residents, and to provide protection during a suspected hostage situation.) Jasper, Fla.,—with 2000 inhabitants and two murders in the past 12 years—obtained seven M-16s from the federal government, leading an area newspaper to run a story with the subhead, “Three stoplights, seven M-16s.”

more...

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/4203345.html

[JVS]

16. 6 people shot in a day is a lot and this reaction isn't necessarily inappropriate

[krispos42]

19. Yes, it is

The city is not in a riot mode. Police are not being shot at on the street. The shooter is not holed up in house with an arsenal. There is no clear target for this armored vehicle to attack!

If the Philly police what an overwhelming show of force, flood the region with police cruisers. That might actually accomplish something.

The Philly police should keep the AFV in the shed until they have a clear target. This is just a stupid Bush/Cheney-style response to a bad day. What's next, a pre-emptive strike on Pittsburg?

[JVS]

21. At least Pittsburgh never bombed themselves like Philly has

Long live MOVE!

But seriously. If 6 people get shot in a neighborhood in a day, it is an emergency. Why not send an armored car. How is flooding the place with cops better?

[TheMadMonk]

28. Because it makes the people feel safer and the perp surrounded.

One armoured car (possibly being baited by kids with cherry bombs) chasing around like a blue arsed fly is worthless.

[krispos42]

34. What is it armored against?

Bullets and anti-tank shells.

Are either of these likely to occur? An assault on a police vehicle?

No.

Therefore, it is no more effective than the same two police officers driving in a regular patrol cruiser, your friendly neighborhood Crown Vic, Impala, or Charger. And since it will piss off the locals and make them less likely to be cooporative, it is counter-productive. The police will be acting as conquerers and occupiers, not as public servants.

Flooding the neighborhood with cops for a while will drastically cut down on police response time to 911 calls, give them a greater chance of catching crime in the act, and give the officers a chance to form some community relations that a 20-ton armored fighting vehicle won't.

[dropkickpa]

38. Krispos, I kindly beg to differ

You do not live here, you do not know or have friends living in the neighborhood. I do. Their take on this is VERY different than yours.

Read the articles about the situation in Homewood instead of freaking out about an armored vehicle. For one thing, police HAVE been shot/shot at there. For another, they are re-instituting walking beat cops, increasing patrols, working with communtiy and church groups, they're not just parading an armored vehicle down the street.

The armored car is not "pissing off the locals" it's showing them that there is strength standing with them. One reason so many crimes in this area go unsolved is not that people don't know who did it, it's that they are afraid to open their mouths, not unreasonably. This is a community with a rich history that has been ignored and downtrodden for quite a while. The people of Homewood are working hard to improve their neighborhood, but the continuous violence is hampering their efforts.

Homewood has been pretty much ignored by city government until now, perhaps they will get the attention they deserve and the resources needed to improve the community will finally be made available (which groups have been clamoring for for years).

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07129/784503-53.stm
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07129/784465-53.stm

[krispos42]

41. Thank you for the articles.

I read them with interest. There are some good ideas there, but it will not address the root causes of crime, although the anonymous tip line and foot patrols will probably help a fair amount.

And sorry, I thought it was taking place in Philly for some reason. I was in Pittsburg once, in the late '90s. Seemed like a nice place.

However, I'm not thrilled with the security camera idea. There seems to be a recurring event where the only solutions to social and crime problems that get funded are those that get more government into your privacy. Prisons, cops, and cameras, all of which get your vital statistics into a computer file and keep track of you throughout the day.

The armored vehicle idea still irritates me. More Bush-style codpiece-macho 'shock and awe' bull instead of serious but less dramatic ideas.

Unfortunately, until this country is ready to in some form or another legalize drugs, reduce the percentage of this country's wealth that the top 1% owns through taxation, enact protective trade barriers that bring industry and jobs back to the US, revive unions, get affordable health care for everybody, and make our schools better and college cheaper, there will be no fundamental change in these types of problems.

[dropkickpa]

42. I think that some changes can be made

Right now, but they cannot be made in a vacuum, which is basically what Homewood existed in for a long time.

I admit that I am an optimist, that I think a lot of progress can be made when the powers that be (and/or their money) become focused there, because they've been neglected for so long. Money by itself won't help everything, but funding for existing programs (both crime-prevention and social, arts, and community) will make a difference.

[Warren Stupidity]

36. Of course it is.

As we saw with Katrina, they are bringing Baghdad style 'peacekeeping' right back here. There is absolutely no excuse for this nonsense. Is there an insurgency in our country that nobody told us about? Seems like they think there ought to be one.

[babylonsister]

6. Jesus Christ! They need to ship that truck to Iraq and not have it

'on hand' to use AGAINST US citizens. This is not good, and I thought tasers were bad.

[shance]

32. No Babylon, the people in Iraq deserve this abuse NO MORE than anyone else.

This type abuse is only used to steal and to rob others of what is rightfully theres to begin with.

The Iraqis are like us. They have been taken hostage as we have.

It is up to us, MUCH MORE THAN THE IRAQIS, to fight back, while we have the chance.

In truth, we all know the Iraqis have no chance really now, there infrastucture, LIKE ours is currently being attacked, has been so decimated they have no foundation with which to fight back legitimately or at this point realistically - there were sitting ducks, like we are sitting ducks, if we don't stand up now, to our overzealous military bullying might.

ALthough keep in mind it was instigated not by citizens but by our own governing bodies who required our believing citizens to fight a war which was not honest and not legitimate.

In addition, Americans need to wake up to the quiet militarized assault on us.

They are quietly militarizing behind the scenes, and not so quietly through private militarized companies here, and they are often using "natural" disasters with which to do this.

For more information, research Katrina and New Orleans.

What else can one conclude at the continuous assaults and deaths of those trying to do the right thing? At this point, people must be prepared to take arms in preparation against those who have caused such needless harm in Iraq and here as well, because they are quite clearly preparing to take arms with us.

We must wake up to the reality that is happening here and must speak to others about the abuse being inflicted under the radar.

Before it is too late for Americans to protect ourselves.

[fooj]

7. KandR!

This is just plain FRIGHTENING! WTF? Why was this necessary and why isn't that vehicle in Iraq?

[billbuckhead]

8. More and more military type weapons are available to the public

Can you blame the police for wanting more protection?

[hootinholler]

12. I'd like some proof of that assertion.

It's not true in my experience.

-Hoot

[nadinbrzezinski]

17. North Hollywood robbery

McDonnalds Shooting

These two are just from the top of my head

By the by, this is the same trend that led to the arming of state and local law enforcement with BAR in the 1920s during prohibition.

The bad guys had thomsons, the good guys got BARs (and some of the bad guys did as well)

The pattern is repeating

[hootinholler]

24. Both comitted with already illegal weapons. n/t

[krispos42]

18. It's true, but misleading

Military-inspired rifles like the various civvie-legal AK-47 and AR-15 (what the military calls the M-16), are commonplace. Semi-automatic rifles, which is what AKs and ARs are, are also available in a variety of non-military-origin designs as well, such as the Remington Models 750 and 7400. These follow more "traditional" looks, steel and walnut with classical lines instead of plastic and aluminum with ergonomic lines.

However, despite the hysteria (which I'm sure will start appearing soon), ALL rifles, classic and military-styled combined, only account for about 3% of all homicides in any given year. Cops are far more likely to be killed by a handgun, shotgun, or knife than any kind of rifle.

[Warren Stupidity]

37. Oh that is total crap.

[jedr]

10. Live near the 'Burgh and know Homewood well;

A bunch of kids playing "Gangsta" for real with no regard for the neighborhood. Shooting kids coming out of school and people leaving church is not the stuff that Pittsburgh is made from. Homewood was once a middle class neighborhood of Black ,White, Polish and Italian, all worked at he mill and had a sense of pride and responsibility . Could write paragraphs about how it ended up this way , but it is what it is. If it takes an armored truck to make it safe, maybe that's what it takes . I'm open to ideas.........

[JVS]

11. Awww shit! Homewood!

[EFerrari]

13. Deutschland, Deutschland uber alles!

oops . . .

[slackmaster]

20. My ex-wife lived in Charlotte, NC in 1964 when they integrated the schools

Kind of the same situation except the one little black girl involved was considered to be good.

[EFerrari]

23. That must have been really, really scary.

I hope she writes about it before it gets lost.

I was the colored kid in my Sunnyvale neighborhood. We're latte colored, and my teachers kept asking me if I was sure I wasn't Italian. lol

[dropkickpa]

14. Homewood is like a war-zone right now

I live less than 2 miles away, and something needs to be done. The people of Homewood are trying to rebuild their community, but the recent spate of violence is horrible. Good, I hope they run those little fuckers over, opening fire at a school bus stop.

Speaking with friends who live in Homewood, many of them are relieved to see SOMETHING finally being done, regular police presence has NOT been a deterrant. This may be.

What the article fails to address is that this is NOT the only thing that is being done. The city and the police are working with the residents of Homewood to come at this problem from as many angles as possible.

[JVS]

15. WTF? If I would have thought the North Side would get this treatment before Homewood.

There are plenty of worse neighborhoods than Homewood. How far up Frankstown was this incident near?

[dropkickpa]

29. Not right now, there isn't, it's not just one incident

It's multiple incidents, most right in the center of Homewood. This is bad, because there's not just handguns, but assault rifles.

2007 shootings in Homewood as per the PG

May 6 2007 - 3 people shot http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07127/784052-53.stm

Yesterday morning, however, while services were under way in both churches, the distance between them became a dangerous stretch of gun violence that left three people wounded and neighbors running for cover.

Pittsburgh police Cmdr. RaShall Brackney said the shooting started shortly before noon when the occupants of a light blue minivan confronted four people in a black Buick Regal on Sterrett Street near Race Street in Homewood.

The driver of the car sped up Idlewild Street, pursued by the van, which was occupied by a driver and at least one shooter firing more than 20 shots from an automatic weapon, police said. At least a dozen shots struck the car, blasting out the back window and striking three of the four occupants.

April 30 2007 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07122/782738-100.stm

The 24-year-old victim, whose name is not being released, was walking in the 1400 block of North Lang Avenue at 10:34 a.m. when he said two men drove up and started shooting at him. He was hit in the stomach and the arm. Witnesses saw him staggering and called 911, and he was taken to UPMC Presbyterian for surgery.

April 25 2007 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07115/780817-100.stm

A man was shot three times this morning in Homewood in front of numerous witnesses, including students from Faison Arts Academy on their way to school.

Pittsburgh Public Schools spokeswoman Ebony Pugh said the students were at a bus stop at Idlewood Street and North Lang Avenue in Homewood when then they saw the man shot. Ms. Pugh said some of the students were picked up by parents and taken home for the day.

Cmdr. Thomas Stangrecki, head of major crimes, said the 20-year-old victim was walking in the 7100 block of Upland Street at about 8:45 a.m. when a gunman armed with an assault rifle approached him and opened fire. The man was struck in the shoulder and twice in the leg and was listed in serious condition at a local hospital.

From the Feb 27 2007 post gazette

An assault rifle used in the shooting of a Homewood teenager last year as he walked into Westinghouse High School was used two months later to spray bullets into a group of young men in a still unsolved killing in the same neighborhood, a prosecutor said yesterday.

Ballistics tests matched two shell casings found outside Westinghouse High -- where Aaron Henderson, 16, then a sophomore at the school, was wounded Feb. 21, 2006 -- with shells found after someone fired onto the front porch of a house on North Murtland Street last April.

Franklin Sheffey Jr., 16, died in that attack, which seriously wounded two other men.

Police have yet to recover the weapon, described as an AK-47 military-style rifle. They say Brandon Murray, 23, used it Feb. 21 to fire several rounds at Mr. Henderson as he walked toward the entrance of Westinghouse High. Police say Thomas Beck, 24, was the driver of the car used in the shooting.

February 26 2007 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07058/765322-53.stm

An armed robbery yesterday at a credit union in Homewood left Sam Gibson of Point Breeze disappointed yet relieved.

He was disappointed that the A-K Valley Federal Credit Union in the 7200 block of Frankstown Avenue was closed when he arrived around 10:30 a.m. to make a deposit in the savings account of his 12-year-old daughter.

The blessing, he said, was that they were not in harm's way inside the office when the two robbers entered at 10:08 a.m.

Police Sgt. Aaron Beatty, who heads the bureau's robbery squad, said both robbers are black males in their 20s.

One, armed with a firearm that may be an assault rifle, is about 5 feet, 8 inches tall with a thin build and a dark complexion.

February 12 2007 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07055/764824-53.stm

The Allegheny County district attorney's office dropped charges against a Homewood auto shop worker yesterday after an investigation concluded the Carrick man acted in self-defense Feb. 12 when he shot two assailants, killing one of them.

"This is a classic example of self-defense; it has all the elements. They came into his place of work and attacked him," said Bruce A. Carsia, defense attorney for Byron Samuels, 37. "He wrestled the gun from them and defended himself."

Upon arrival at Derek's Auto Sales, 7900 Bennett St., police found the body of Russell Thomas, 36. His brother, Maurice "Reese" Thomas, 33, had suffered a gunshot wound to the shoulder. He has been released from the hospital.

Mr. Samuels told police two armed men beat and pistol-whipped him, and falsely accused him of burglarizing their Wilkinsburg home. He was cornered when he disarmed one of them and used the pistol to defend himself.

He said one man was armed with an AK-47 assault rifle. Investigators found a shell casing that matched the rifle he described.

February 7 2007 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07039/760450-53.stm

A Duquesne man was killed in a shooting early yesterday at a bar in Homewood.

Rodney Poindexter, 32, was pronounced dead at 2:40 a.m. of a gunshot wound of the abdomen at UPMC Presbyterian, police said.

Mr. Poindexter and at least one other person were involved in an altercation reported at 1:54 a.m. inside the 7101 Lounge on Frankstown Avenue.

Police were called and joined security personnel at the bar in dispersing the crowd. While at the scene, police were notified that a man was down outside the bar near North Lang Avenue and Forest Way.

January 9 2007 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07010/752621-53.stm

A Homewood man was gunned down as he left a neighborhood bar early yesterday, the Allegheny County medical examiner said.

Damien Lee Robinson, 25, was shot multiple times as he exited Earl the Pearl's Bar in the 7200 block of Kelly Street, said Bruce Wright, a senior investigator for the medical examiner.

The shooting was reported at 1:14 a.m.

Witnesses told investigators that two men, armed with assault rifles, were waiting across Kelly Street from the bar. They approached Mr. Robinson as he left the bar and more than a dozen shots were fired.

January 5 2007 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07006/751899-53.stm

A man was killed and a teenager wounded in a double shooting early yesterday in Homewood.

Pittsburgh police were dispatched some time before 3 a.m. to investigate the report of a man shot in the head at a residence in the 600 block of North Braddock Avenue.

When officers arrived at the front door, one of the victims was heard calling from inside for help, police Cmdr. Thomas Stangrecki said.

Both victims, Terry Adams, 19, of McKeesport and a 17-year-old Lincoln-Lemington youth, were found in the living room.

[JVS]

31. So dropkick, is the sentiment there that the Armored Car is excessive...

or do people think it is the right thing to use?

[dropkickpa]

39. Not excessive, but

a relief to finally get a response to the problems there. There is a lot (finally) slated to be done to help improve the situation. I'm not exactly sure why Homewood has been ignored for so long (maybe because, unlike the Hill or North Side, it's not strategically located near an arena/casino/stadium, etc etc), but it's high time some attention was turned that way. There are several community groups, faith-based and otherwise, that have been working very hard for years, maybe now they will get some well-deserved help!

[RL3AO]

22. So 6 people were shot in 24 hours

and your complaining because the police stepped up enforcement?

[AX10]

25. Send that thing to Iraq!

This military wannabe crap has no place in America!

[RamboLiberal]

26. Here's a pic - Impressive sucker

The Pittsburgh police version of the Lenco B.E.A.R. is vetted by its manufacturer as a tactical armored security vehicle that meets SWAT, Homeland Security and counterterrorism needs. With police departments small and large buying armored vehicles, some criminal justice experts warn that their use in fighting routine crime could do more harm than good.
AP photo

What I think would be a better measure is to have beat cops out walking or bicyling the streets, meeting the residents, etc with backup from patrol vehicles.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

40. That's what they're doing.

What I think would be a better measure is to have beat cops out walking or bicyling the streets, meeting the residents, etc with backup from patrol vehicles.

This is part of a larger program to step up police presence, including more beat cops, and more outreach to the community.

[maveric]

27. Frank Rizzo used tanks and dropped bombs from helicopters...

during his reign of terror as police chief and mayor of Philadelphia.
Remember him?

[Rex]

30. Don't worry, the law is there to protect you!

Well...

[shance]

33. Oh wait, you must be talking about the Patriot Act.....or um the Military Commissions Act

or was it the "Help America Vote Act"?

or was it the Bankruptcy Act?

Or the No Child Left Behind Act?

oh dammit, which act was it..........

I can't seem to remember.

[flyarm]

35. k&r