I no longer salute the American Flag

[Stargazer99]

I'm fed up with this country and the ruling class. My adult daughter died from causes that could have been corrected if she could have access to medical care. the medical profession had the nerve of turning her over to a collection agency, nothing like killing your patient if they can't pay. Every time I read about a doctor or dentist going to under developed countries to offer their services I want to scream. Last year we had medical services being delivered in stables because so many people are in need. The dental profession is the worst offender. What good does scaled down fees do when all one can do is keep the rent paid and the heat on for an elder? I deeply resent this nation that gives medical care to others and those in need have voices are never heard. I pay for my utilities, rent, etc. I'm sure those workers of the companys I pay have benefits that I'll never receive even though I work two jobs. My teeth are rotting along with my adult grandson's that cannot find employment despite having attending audio/visual training at a vocational school. When my girls were young I remember the poor child care I had to endure so I could work to survive. They had to be up at 5am and walk to the sitters and then they could only sit until school started. Find another sitter you say? I had no car to find another sitter and there were none around that I could afford. In developed Europe this abusive situation would not need to occur, only in America...where there is a 6 bedroom house for one or two people but a one bedroom house for 10 people. We are raised to think capitalism is great, anyone can become rich! And our greed falls right into that gaslighting. Capitalism means you sell at the cheapest price what ever it is. Has it dawned on anyone BP was going on the cheap and that is why now we have people unable to earning their living as they always have in Louisana. But of course we will keep worshiping capitalism because those that benefit from the system have enough power to keep it going. No wonder they don't want government powerful...they might have to be responsible for killing their workers or sickening them. We as a nation are becoming so close to labor as slavery it is shameful. And the right to lifers make sure the poor and near poor have no access to abortion. But the monied can just go to Canada or Europe and get an abortion. If the poor cannot avail themselves of abortion services then the monied that go to Europe and Canada ought to be tried for murder along with the poor American. Yeah,I can just see that happening, what a laugh. There are worse things than not being born and one of them is a lifetime of stress and lack that those experiencing poverty experience. Approximately 20% of American children are poor and/or hungry and in a nation that is one of the more wealthy. And still you sit and take it! This system feeds on the poor. Foreclosure is a good example. I grew up in an era where there were limits on the percent of interest that could be charged on loans. ARMs should have been illegal. Every time I read or hear about painful cuts in the budget, I know the pain is going to be on those least able to compensate for the cuts. I feel like I've spent most of my life living in hell. I would not work against this nation but I do not admire it, it leaves a lot to be desired.

[texanwitch]

1. I stopped a long time ago.

The flag is not my flag, it belongs to the super rich now.

[Sherman A1]

186. Agreed

:toast:

[sasquuatch55]

192. As did I, and I am a Veteran.

nt

[Bucky]

2. Is this Lounge material?

Sorry that the country isn't perfect. Yes, we have to fight for what the flag stands for with those who think the pursuit of happiness means irresponsibility and chasing the almighty dollar regardless of the social costs.

I just don't see the value in giving up the fight, or surrendering to the greed heads, when the consequences of giving up the fight are so much worse than the frustration of so rarely getting an unabashed win.

I look at where this country was just 100 years ago and compare it to the problems and the values that we have now. The unabashed, unfiltered racism of the liberals like Roosevelt and Wilson is unthinkable even among the most resolute of conservative leaders today.

Yes, the spillage in the Gulf is horrible. It will take years to clean it up. But I won't surrender my flag to the assholes just because they've racked up a few wins in their column (or, technically, prevented a few wins in the progressives' column).

Quit if you like. The need to keep fighting has not gone away.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

141. moved to GD

:patriot:

[awoke_in_2003]

173. no, it probably isn't...

the only place kookier than the lounge is the gungeon. What do you think is so damn special about the lounge? What, the OP didn't include some stupid damn "kitteh" picture?

[bjobotts]

207. Are U really fighting or just finding better ways to accept the corporate plutocracy

[Butch350]

247. The Flag is your crutch.

The Flag is an inanimate object.

The problems in this country are real. Your obviously doing well. Others are not.

The "pull yourself up by the bootstrap" does not apply here.

Have a good Holiday.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

3. I'm sorry....

[awoke_in_2003]

172. how very

democratic of you :sarcasm:

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[proteus_lives]

5. I don't think civilians are supposed to salute when they see the flag.

BTW, paragraph breaks are your friend.

[Stargazer99]

9. You are correct they do not salute

but do stand and put their hand over the heart. No longer will I honor a country that feels I should be in need and/or die to suit its needs.

[SargeUNN]

87. Then you concede defeat?

I never thought I would see the end of Jim Crow or be able to sit down and have a meal in a cafe with a black friend in Mississippi, but I did. Just wonder if JFK, RFK, MLK Jr. had decided because the fight was too long or seemed to impossible and just quit. No I don't agree with you and quitting is just showing you don't really have the conviction to fight the fight. You are becoming part of the problem with that resolution and you aren't a progressive/liberal or anything if you quit except a quitter and a loser. Think about it.

[damonm]

196. THIS!

Wish I could rec a post in midthread.

[marshall]

250. I was just thinking about Spock as I read this thread!

His quote about "the needs of the many and the needs of the few."

Thanks for posting the picture!

[HughMoran]

218. Good point

well said...

[LooseWilly]

245. So you're saying the OP should be assassinated?

Because all the people you cite as those he/she should live up to the example of... were murdered.

I'm always amused when people cite these folks as heroes, and then freak when people behave as rebelliously as they did. The sounds of suffering in the Op are closer to those of Rosa Parks. She made a stand... and then others carried on from that point. Are you going to carry on from the point of the OP's daughters death? Are you going to fight to be sure that people don't die for lack of health care? Are you going to fight the Democrats with their health care consortium plans when the private insurers find loopholes and drop everyone that they're supposedly required to insure while happily insuring all us poor schmucks who have been evading the process because it is unaffordable?
Or are you gonna start shoveling some more bullshit about how RFK would've paid his health insurance bill for the benefit of <people being cut out of the system>, and to do otherwise is to be a quitter? Or a loser?
And by the way, what did you do to carry on after MLK was gunned down? That's a hell of a load of guilt to throw on the head of someone who's in the middle of a shitstorm... don't you think? Don't you think MLK's wife would've thought so? Have you no fucking shame?
I'm not sure you qualify as a progressive/liberal after that heartless harangue in the face of suffering...

[Captain Hilts]

11. Correct and yes. nt

[Hissyspit]

117. The word "salute" does not just refer to military hand gestures.

And there is nothing in the OP that I see that confirms that that was what the OP was denoting.

From Dictionary.com:

1. to pay respect to or honor by some formal act, as by raising the right hand to the side of the headgear, presenting arms, firing cannon, dipping colors, etc.
2. to address with expressions of goodwill, respect, etc.; greet.
3. to make a bow or other gesture to, as in greeting, farewell, or respect.
4. to express respect or praise for; honor; commend

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

6. tl;dr

[tango-tee]

128. What does "tl;dr" mean?

I'm not very well versed in acronyms. Thanks!

[Tuesday Afternoon]

136. too long. didn't read.

:patriot:

[rfranklin]

177. That's a moronic thing to post...

If you don't read it, then just move on.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

180. mea culpa.

[DRoseDARs]

183. Perhaps you should reread that and this time NOT make it about you.

rfranklin was talking about HFPS' post, not yours. :eyes:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

188. .

.

[rfranklin]

184. You are a little bit sensitive...

The comment was directed at the "tl:dr" comment.

And, a post can be moronic without the poster being a moron--I've done it myself on occasion. And I have an IQ of almost 70.

[Tuesday Afternoon]

187. .

.

[Ter]

191. It's an internet thing that goes back at least 15 years

The fun thing to write after a long article (especially one that's hard to read with no paragraphs like this one) is simply to say TLDR. I grew up with it, that's why I still get a chuckle when I read TLDR.

Edit: It's not TL;DR, he made a typo. It doesn't have a ;.

[Control-Z]

236. Why comment at all?

Suggesting paragraph breaks might be helpful, but insulting the poster accomplishes nothing good.

[Ter]

256. I am guilty of writing TLDR before as well

It's been a while, I know it's not nice, but it's something I grew up with.

[Blue-Jay]

144. .

[ThatsMyBarack]

148. Love that smilie!

:rofl:

[hfojvt]

195. what R they 4?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IasCZL072fQ

[awoke_in_2003]

185. then why post at all?

to prove what a witty fellow you are? To paraphrase Lincoln, it is better to be silent and thought an asshole then to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

[tiny elvis]

246. new easy to read version

I'm fed up with this country and the ruling class. My adult daughter died from causes that could have been corrected if she could have access to medical care.
The medical profession had the nerve of turning her over to a collection agency, nothing like killing your patient if they can't pay. Every time I read about a doctor or dentist going to under developed countries to offer their services I want to scream.
Last year we had medical services being delivered in stables because so many people are in need.
The dental profession is the worst offender.
What good does scaled down fees do when all one can do is keep the rent paid and the heat on for an elder? I deeply resent this nation that gives medical care to others and those in need have voices are never heard.
I pay for my utilities, rent, etc.
I'm sure those workers of the companys I pay have benefits that I'll never receive even though I work two jobs.
My teeth are rotting along with my adult grandson's that cannot find employment despite having attending audio/visual training at a vocational school.
When my girls were young I remember the poor child care I had to endure so I could work to survive.
They had to be up at 5am and walk to the sitters and then they could only sit until school started.
Find another sitter you say? I had no car to find another sitter and there were none around that I could afford.
In developed Europe this abusive situation would not need to occur, only in America...where there is a 6 bedroom house for one or two people but a one bedroom house for 10 people.
We are raised to think capitalism is great, anyone can become rich! And our greed falls right into that gaslighting.
Capitalism means you sell at the cheapest price what ever it is.
Has it dawned on anyone BP was going on the cheap and that is why now we have people unable to earning their living as they always have in Louisana.
But of course we will keep worshiping capitalism because those that benefit from the system have enough power to keep it going.
No wonder they don't want government powerful...they might have to be responsible for killing their workers or sickening them.
We as a nation are becoming so close to labor as slavery it is shameful. And the right to lifers make sure the poor and near poor have no access to abortion.
But the monied can just go to Canada or Europe and get an abortion.
If the poor cannot avail themselves of abortion services then the monied that go to Europe and Canada ought to be tried for murder along with the poor American.
Yeah,I can just see that happening, what a laugh.
There are worse things than not being born and one of them is a lifetime of stress and lack that those experiencing poverty experience.
Approximately 20% of American children are poor and/or hungry and in a nation that is one of the more wealthy.
And still you sit and take it! This system feeds on the poor.
Foreclosure is a good example.
I grew up in an era where there were limits on the percent of interest that could be charged on loans. ARMs should have been illegal.
Every time I read or hear about painful cuts in the budget, I know the pain is going to be on those least able to compensate for the cuts.
I feel like I've spent most of my life living in hell.
I would not work against this nation but I do not admire it, it leaves a lot to be desired.

[Ptah]

7. Costco has a great sale on paragraphs. 20 for $15.00

[Haole Girl]

8. self - delete

[LynneSin]

12. Yeah but Wal-mart found cheap labor in Taiwan that makes them 25 for $12

not sure of the quality of them though.

[femrap]

205. I believe you mean

China.

And many of you must have never gone to bed hungry.

You sound like a bunch of freepers who have no understanding of the word, empathy.

[LanternWaste]

17. Sarcasm is is the discount bins...

Sarcasm is on sale the discount bins. All free--- take as much as you want and waste it on the irrelevant.

[Quantess]

28. Paragraph breaks are relevant.

[sabrina 1]

190. I don't know, I managed to read it without paragraphs, and

found the content more important in the end, than paragraph breaks.

It's nice if you had the advantage of a good education although if all it does is produce such a narrow view of life that grammer and spelling and spacing become more important than someone who has something to say but maybe didn't have your advantages, which if you had over-looked the trivial, by comparison, matter of paragraph breaks, you might have taken into consideration.

I would say, having read the OP, that the writer speaks for a growing number of people in this country, paragraphs or no paragraphs. We are no longer Numero Uno in the world on quality of life issues that affect the people.

The OP is honest about how s/he feels and definitely part of what may be a majority of the American before much longer. Unless things begin to change to the point where the people are no longer convinced that, as the OP points out, the U.S. government is no longer 'for the people' but 'for the corporations'.

[tallahasseedem]

30. +1

LOL!

[City Lights]

38. How's the view from the cheap seats? nt

[tpsbmam]

176. You don't know a damn thing about Stargazer except what she wrote here,

pouring her heart out in addition to venting anger, as many of us have needed to do over the past 9+ years. What you appeared to find humorous in your snide swipe at her I find a malicious attempt to make a person feel smaller than she did before she read your response. Proud of yourself? You have no idea what's going on with people to whom you respond to so snidely. People misspell, people use inaccurate grammar, people don't use paragraphs....and you have no idea why. Education? Disabilities/learning disabilities? An old 4th-hand computer with a return button that just crapped out (had that happen & had to use it for a week before I could get it fixed). You have no frigging clue.

It's nice to talk in the abstract about issues we Dems usually feel strongly about (e.g., poverty, education, acceptance, equal rights for everyone....) but to read some of the disgusting responses on this thread, believing in the concepts doesn't translate to treatment of fellow human beings.

I had a wonderful high school principal who taught me many great lessons, among them (paraphrasing): "Never depart a room leaving someone feeling smaller than when you entered." Very good advice.

[Ladyhawk]

194. +1

Attitude problems of DUers = main reason I am an infrequent visitor.

[dencol]

200. DU is full of vultures.

They smell desperation, start to circle, and try to push people over the edge so the give up. Instead of feeling empathy, others seem to feel as if the suffering of others raises their status. It's disgusting. I've seen it toward the unemployed, poor, gays, and other people who are beaten down. It's disappointing, but ultimately reflective of what much of the Democratic Party has become.

[bobbolink]

223. Thank you, dencol. Having been the object of that kind of derision here on DU,

I appreciate when someone sees it for what it is.

Getting pleasure from causing pain is about as low as it gets. Kinda Cheeeeney, like, don't you think?

And, yes, I think it has become quite indiciative of the Dem party as a whole. :(

Thank you, and welcome to DU, dencol! :toast: :bounce:

[femrap]

206. + zillion

I found the OP to be a righteous salute to hypocrisy of what our flag represents.

I admire her for speaking The Truth and I agree with you.

[bobbolink]

222. "Never depart a room leaving someone feeling smaller than when you entered."

What a terrific lesson. Thank you, high school principle1!

If you don't have any objections, I am going to use this quotation!

Thanks! :hi:

[tpsbmam]

224. No objection at all. It was a gift from a great lady....happy to share her gift. n/t

[bobbolink]

225. I just shared it with a friend of mine... a DUer who is sick in bed, and she

really liked it.

I am working on a program on homelessness, and I want to include this. You would be amazed (and sickened) and how often "help agencies" leave people feeling much worse than when they walked in!

Thanks! :hi:

[tpsbmam]

226. Not amazed at all though always sickened.

I worked in the mental health/medical profession when I was able to work. I can't tell you how often I heard the same thing and had to work to undo what "help agencies" or other professionals (medical, psychiatric, social, etc etc) had done to people. I was lucky enough to have a couple of people like that principal in my life to teach me the lessons I've taken with me all through my life -- they've helped me and others.

It's exciting to hear about people like you working on a homelessness program. Bravo!

[bobbolink]

228. I know a shrink who has said much the same thing! THANK YOU for being there

to help bind the wounds!

I'd really like to talk about this... mind if I pm you? What you are saying would be very helpful!

:hi:

[tpsbmam]

233. Please do! I'd love to hear about what you're doing and add whatever

I can to be helpful. Off to bed now but I'll happily look for it tomorrow!

:pals:

[Seneca]

10. What about the Alaskan flag in your avatar?

Just curious as to any parameters on your flag-saluting, or lack thereof. It was an unexpected avatar for an anti-flag rant.

[shireen]

55. the answer is in her profile ...

it's not about the flag. She like astronomy. Her choice of avatar, to me, indicates an interest in observational astronomy and identifying constellations.
That flag shows the constellation of the Big Dipper, and how the two bottom stars in the picture point to the north star, Polaris.

[Stargazer99]

63. shireen-you are absolutely correct

I've had a life long love of astronomy, since 11 yrs of age. I've ground an 8 inch reflector in my 30's. Astronomy means to me the alpha and the omega. Also the infinite intellegence of Jehovah and the unlimited beauty of the universe. The particle physics of the universe is a book of untold principles upon which to base inventions. You "hit the nail on the head" so to speak.

[shireen]

121. yes, astronomy is pretty amazing stuff!

btw, you may enjoy this website: http://www.galaxyzoo.org
it's a citizen science project to help scientist catalog different types of galaxies. The images are wonderful!

My signature, btw, is made out of galaxies taken by the Sloan Digital Sky Survey ... we call it galaxy font. LOL! :D

[Seneca]

78. Oh, okay

I never check profiles anyway.

Carry on.

(and yes, I know what is represented on AK's flag - no need for condescension)

[shireen]

84. condescension?

what do you mean? Is it because i explained the bit about the constellations? Not everyone knows astronomical constellations. The Big Dipper and how it points to Polaris is a pretty cool fact, I was simply sharing that tidbit of info.

:eyes:

[Tuesday Afternoon]

13. yawn

shiny something in the tree out the window...looking now.

[Zoeisright]

198. Wow. How rude.

The original poster summed up everything that is wrong with this country. And you mock it? Sad. Just sad.

[femrap]

208. Go back to

filing your nails and fixing your hair. Oh...your cell phone is ringing. blab blab blab. You really think you're important.

You're pathetically worthless.

Now go paint your nails.

[Swede]

14. TLDR

[Zoeisright]

197. Lazy much?

[Forkboy]

214. Some are not only intellectually lazy, they're proud to be that way.

Like the left's version of Dittoheads.

[Forkboy]

212. That's about as lame as it gets.

[Brickbat]

15. I am sorry you lost your daughter, and for your troubles.

[and-justice-for-all]

16. I never did.....

I find it to be overly patriotic and unnecessary. I also think it displays a lack of acknowledgment of ones country's wrong doings; blind faith(allegiance) basically.

[Echo In Light]

50. I don't give a fuck about the flag. George Carlin on the subject:

"Now you folks might've noticed, I don't feel about that Gulf War the way we were instructed to feel about it by the United States government. My mind doesn't work that way. You see, I've got this real moron thing I do, it's called 'Thinking' And I guess I'm not a very good American, because I like to form my own opinions; I don't just roll over when I'm told. Most Americans roll over on command. Not me, There are certain rules I observe.

My first rule: Never believe anyone in authority says. None of them. Government, Police, clergy, the corporate criminals. None of them. And neither do I believe anything I'm told by the media, who, in the case of the Gulf War, functioned as little more than unpaid employees of the Defense Department, and who, most of the time, operate as unofficial public relations agency for the government and industry. I don't believe in any of them. And I have to tell you, folks, I don't really believe very much in my country either. I don't get all choked up about yellow ribbons and American flags. I see them as symbols, and I leave them to the symbol-minded.

I also look at war itself a little differently from most. I see it largely as an exercise in dick-waving. That's really all it is: alot of men standing around in a field waving their dicks at one another. Men, insecure about the size of their penises, choose to kill one another.

That's also what all that moron, athlete bullshit is all about, and what that macho, male posturing and strutting around in bars and locker rooms represents. It's called 'dick fear.' Men are terrified that their dicks are inadequate, and so they have to 'compete' in order to feel better about themselves. And since war is the ultimate competition, essentially men are killing one another in order to improve their genital self-esteem."

[KansasVoter]

99. Perfect!

[defendandprotect]

158. Loved Carlin -- but never read this before -- !!

Never read the whole thing -- but especially impressed with this -- !!

Thanks! Saving it!

I also look at war itself a little differently from most. I see it largely as an exercise in dick-waving. That's really all it is: alot of men standing around in a field waving their dicks at one another. Men, insecure about the size of their penises, choose to kill one another.

That's also what all that moron, athlete bullshit is all about, and what that macho, male posturing and strutting around in bars and locker rooms represents. It's called 'dick fear.' Men are terrified that their dicks are inadequate, and so they have to 'compete' in order to feel better about themselves. And since war is the ultimate competition, essentially men are killing one another in order to improve their genital self-esteem."

[femrap]

210. Gee, I think I'll use your

post as my sig....rather long, just the opposite of the warmongers.

[DevonRex]

18. Looks to me like you wanted that headline on DU for all the weasly Pukes to relish. nt

[Violet_Crumble]

244. Yes, DU really needs an editor to fix up thread titles that don't show Flag-Lust...

After all, it's far more important to worry about what some morons skimming though headlines think of us than to read the body of the post and feel some empathy with the OP...

I'm not wasting my time reading any further in this thread. This has been a display of Ugly Americanism that I really don't want to see much more of...

[mikita]

19. I am sorry for your pain

and even sorrier that there are such crass replies to your pain.

[inna]

24. +1000

[stillwaiting]

41. + 1000!

Disgusting some of the replies.

[Owl]

66. +1000

K&R for the OP.

[proudohioan]

48. Some of the compassion displayed here is heart wrenching,

isn't it!

:sarcasm:

Agreed; disgusting!

*edit for 'smiley'

[bobbolink]

86. Cold-heartedness is another reason for ignoring the flag.

Many of these replies look like they came from the RW. :cry:

[a la izquierda]

107. seriously...

there are some real mean-spirited people on DU. soul-less, heartless jerks. i think many people truly get off on making other people feel bad, they're stupid bullies who wouldn't dare say any of the crap they spew to anyone's face.
Ignore them.

I wonder what the hell is wrong with Republicans, and lately, I've been wondering what the hell is wrong with some people here.

[laughingliberal]

114. I think at some point a lot of Democrats said, "Isn't the RW awful? Let's be just like them!" nt

[a la izquierda]

134. Bwahahaha! I think you're right.

[Go2Peace]

220. That is the trouble with focusing on the "fight", instead of on the deeper

issues. I see a lot of Democrats right now for whom this is all about a fight with the right. I don't see it that way. The fight is for American ethics and values and democracy. The Republicans are just the more visible representation of what is hurting the country. If we don't understand that, we risk becoming just like them in the process of "fighting" them off.

[bobbolink]

230. Bullies, exactly. Bullies are bullies, and they exist on both the Dem and Rep playgrounds.

Heartless, soulless bullies.

[AsahinaKimi]

162. 1000+

eom.

[NikolaC]

235. +1000

I was disgusted to read some of the posts. I found them to be callous and rude. A fellow DUer was pouring her heart out and (regardless of whether or not one agrees with her stance on saluting the flag) some compassion is called for, not snark, complete dismissal and cruelty. Sometimes I wonder what has happened to some of the people on this site to make them so devoid of compassion and understanding.

[tmyers09]

20. Dude pours his heart out and we get snark, "tl;dr", and more snark?

WTF? Where is the compassion? Where is the outrage? This was a fine OP.

[jobycom]

21. Yep.

Even if others have a different opinion, it's hard not to feel the OP's agony. Sad place these days.

[inna]

23. +1. My thoughts exactly. I'm stunned at the reaction.

K&R for the OP.

[Onceuponalife]

26. I agree

When did this place become free republic?

[City Lights]

29. Totally agree with you.

:-(

[dana_b]

31. thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the responses in this thread make me sick to my stomach. This person is hurting terribly - has been through more pain than some will know in their entire lives and people are worried about paragraph breaks or that they are bored?! Fuck those insensitive assholes!!!!

[saracat]

47. Many have completely lost their empathy in the pursuit only of a winning team. That is NOT what

our nation stands for or what our forefathers intended.We were founded on priciples that were considered self evident, not being part of a winning team. Democracy is not a sport.

[pecwae]

248. Which is precisely

why many rarely post any longer.

[Greyhound]

67. I know, so progressive.

OTOH, they do validate the OP's point.

[Stargazer99]

71. thank you for your understanding...but I am female

I'm used to the meanness and I am emotionally strong enough not to let it be a part of me. My one prayer is that I never become so unfeeling as some posters.

[tpsbmam]

178. Amen!! n/t

[femrap]

211. Good luck to you....

I wish you the best.

Regarding the stars: I read somewhere that the planets are lining up in an 'ugly' formation come the middle of July.

Take care.

[barbtries]

243. stargazer

i am so sorry that you lost your daughter unnecessarily. so did i, in a different way - Bekah was run over. the people being mean, dismissive and judgmental on this thread disgust me. if you ever need to talk PM me. it is such a long and lonely road. :hug:

[Go2Peace]

85. "Today's College Students More Likely to Lack Empathy"

http://health.usnews.com/health-news/family-health/brain-and-behavior/articles/2010/05/28/todays-college-students-more-likely-to-lack-empathy.html


Our society is loosing it's ability to emphathize. Unfortunately I don't think it is limited to college students.

This trend is more dangerous than even bad politics and corporations

[county worker]

112. When that happens I see it as a sign that things have gotten so bad that

we can't stand to see the tragedy that is right in front of us. Mostly it is denial, the first step on the path toward accepting inevitable death.

[ChiciB1]

138. Well, Get Ready... My Grandson Isn't All That Enamored With Flying The

American flag these days. Currently he attends college at FSU and WONDERS a lot what will be waiting for him when he graduates!!

He HAS decided to into the medical fields because my daughter & her husband both have certain degrees of their own in the field. Was thinking doctor, but will start at entry level position and work his way up!

My daughter just got offered a job to work at the St. Pete VA and I said "Go For It!" In a county that has NEVER/ WILL NEVER have a Union for medical workers, she would be stupid not to! The benefits alone makes it an easy decision for her!

And she will have to travel at least 45 minutes one way because we live further south of St. Pete! So she just finished filling out her resume and "required" mounds of paper to get hired. She works for a cardiologist who has his OWN Practice, but decided to walk away and go work for the VA too! He's the one who asked her to come along, but she still has one year of internship, but they are trying to work it out so she can get started right away!

But, I got off topic... my grandson says that so many of his classmates don't feel a real loyalty to "patriotism" per se because of what they see as our country "selling them out, or down stream!" Sorry, but I HAD to post what I hear him saying. He just wants to get his education and get a JOB that will give him some security! He changed his major just because he felt that "medical" was the way to go! PEOPLE need health care all the time now don't they??

He was born here, he's an American... but he thinks HIS country is failing him and HIS generation and wonders what it will be like in 20 years! And I say (a selfish thing) that sometimes think I'm glad I won't be here to see what may be a REAL down fall! Twenty or 25 years may be MORE than I want, but Dr. "K" won't be available I'm sure!

[LibDemAlways]

189. "Our society is losing its ability to empathize." Absolutely true.

I'm a substitute teacher. The other day I was having a conversation with a special ed aide at a school I was assigned to for the day. She was telling me how Arnold's budget cuts had eliminated her last job and how much she disliked her current position. I told her I was sorry to hear she lost a job and related how my husband lost his job in January. Rather than saying, "Oh, I'm sorry to hear that" or "I hope he finds something soon," she just continued on with everything wrong with her job. Didn't even react at all to what I'd just told her. Not only losing ability to empathize, but losing the ability to listen to what someone else is saying.

The posters who responded so negatively to the OP didn't take the time to read it and had no interest in someone else's plight to begin with. It's very sad when a fellow human being pours her heart out on a Democratic board and is belittled. Perhaps those posters would feel more comfortable over in freeperland.

[FedUp_Queer]

240. I disagree.

It's already lost it.

[LibDemAlways]

241. You're right. People are callous. I was perhaps too

generous in my original post.

[tango-tee]

108. Sad to say,

it doesn't surprise me a bit, coming from certain posters.

I agree with you, it was a great OP. The pain and suffering is palpable.

[Zix]

125. Democratic Underground is host to a large number of very unpleasant people.

It's unfortunate.

[Moochy]

139. Its a Big Tent

Full of Ex-Republican assholes.

[Paladin]

150. I Think A Lot Of Them Are Still Full-Fledged Republicans.

Nothing but a bunch of agenda-driven trolls. Thanks to the moderators for taking action on these individuals who have rendered DU a much less attractive site......

[G_j]

137. yep

I'll say it, there are a number of sociopathic dirt bags. Their snark is a clear attempt to disrupt, yet day after day, they continue.

[chrisa]

147. I'm alerting on them. Please join me, to make DU a better place! Thanks!

:)

[Codeine]

22. Giant text block is giant. nt

[mr blur]

25. Some of you Americans seem to care more about the bloody flag than each other

Reading through some of the replies to a heartfelt OP.

[dana_b]

32. so true. n/t

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

45. This Citizen of the Island Nation of New Orleans agrees with you.

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." - Samuel Johnson, April 7, 1775.

Note the date when Samuel Johnson said this.

[Hissyspit]

118. I'm an American and long-time DUer.

And some of the replies are pathetic.

When I brought my British girlfriend to the U.S. for the first time, she was fairly disturbed by the fetishization of the flag (not that Britain doesn't have its own particular nationalism-inspired problems).

[depakid]

123. Impressive, isn't it?

There's even a holiday devoted to it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_Day_%28United_States%29

[Orsino]

27. America is an engine that runs on oil and misery.

Every once in a while, we make it--and its flag--mean more than that. Too many of our own, though, are failed every single goddamned day. This is not the greatest country on Earth, and little experiment in representative plutocracy is not the best form of government.

I'm sorry for your loss.

Me? I'll salute the flag at least once the day DADT is repealed. That will be one of those good moments that might make an important long-term difference.

[tallahasseedem]

33. I do and always will...

I may not agree with everything that is going on right now, but I have great respect for those who have fought for our country. They look to that flag with pride.

I don't care if I sound like a Freeper...If you hate America and everything about it, then move.

[dana_b]

37. wow - your "love it or leave it!" attitude

ugh! sickening.

[tabasco]

64. That's not what the poster stated.

He posted, in effect, "if you hate it, leave it."

What is your major problem with that idea?

Sounds like good advice to me. It's a big world.

[Stargazer99]

75. If I could leave it to a country that cares about its people

I would leave, I want to be around people that give a damn about what is going on and being willing to fight and change it to something more healthy spiritually and physically.

[bobbolink]

89. I'm definitely with you on that!

The heartlessness shown in this thread toward you is a big reason why I have given up on this country.

I'm very sorry that your honesty was treated so badly. :hug:

[Zix]

127. Come to the UK.

We're not all that great, but we try to care about each other and we speak English!

[awoke_in_2003]

164. and you have

great beer.

[bobbolink]

232. Well, sort of.

"Separated by a common language." Can't remember who said that.

Unfortunately, no country will take poor folk like me. We are the outcasts.

[awoke_in_2003]

163. +1000. nt

[dana_b]

80. are you serious??!!

wow - I think you belong somewhere else- somewhere that has no empathy or understanding for other people.

The original OP was venting. She has had a terrible set of circumstances come at her and a lot of what has caused it is due to the greed and uncaring attitudes in this country. Her daughter DIED because of lack of healthcare. And you think she shouldn't have an issue with that? If she doesn't like it here or even hates it she should just leave- as if that is just so easy to do. Talk about an unempathetic, cold person.

[tango-tee]

130. Yours is one of the most pitiful responses I've read on DU.

Right. Tell someone who is in deep pain she's free to leave the country - someone who has absolutely no material resources at all. There is a word called "empathy". I suppose it is not in your personal dictionary.

Way to go.

Shame on you.

[awoke_in_2003]

159. BS....

just because he changed the words doesn't mean he changed the concept.

on edit: and how, exactly, it the OP supposed to move? That involves a decent sum of money.

[gaspee]

167. Ya think it's that easy for someone living in poverty to emigrate?

That's ridiculous.

[awoke_in_2003]

160. self delete. nt

[Stargazer99]

68. I did not say I hate America...I've lost respect for it

too many in this nation have lost the meaning of being human or Christian. Certain species of animals eat their own. Some humans are below being humane or Christian and at times worse than animals. Even some specie of animals treat their own better. It always looks like those who do not care are the strong ones, actually they are not, they are afraid to identify with the injured. In Revelation it says in the last days man will not have natural affection to each other. Jesus said the great principle of God and the prophets was to love God with all your heart and your neighbor as yourself. Upon this lay the law. Are you one of the groups without natural affection for another human life? The physical universe has laws of how it works, what makes you think the spiritual level has no laws?
If I could leave this country and be part of a nation that truly cares for its people I would leave in a heartbeat. As far as our soldiers I have no dis-respect for them, I honor their sacrifice but I do not honor a nation that is so materially minded that it torments human life by those who do not suffer.

[tango-tee]

113. I'm so sorry

that your heartfelt OP has been met with derision and cold-heartedness by some posters.

But there are so many others on this thread who empathize with you, some of whom may have been in your situation at one time, ór who are still there. They are the people who realize the system is rigged in favor of the rich, and that the poor are being trampled underfoot. And I completely understand why those suffering don't belong to the rah-rah "We're Number One, The Best, The Greatest in The World" crowd.

There are times I'm close to losing hope as well, dear stargazer.

[Greyhound]

69. Tell ya what, all you gung-ho types get a collection together and start

offering to sponsor people that don't worship a rag to emigrate.

ETA; See this. http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=8438422&mesg_id=8439169

[Go2Peace]

91. You do

sound like a Freeper. You appear to have the heart of one too. You could have just kept your mouth shut.

[a la izquierda]

110. you sound like my psychotic freeper

sister-in-law, who accused me of being ashamed of my country and told me i was an embarrassment to the family. i feel sorry for you, a Democrat, to be linked to the likes of her. she truly is a terrible, mean person.

[county worker]

116. I fought for our country and the flag is just a piece of material, a symbol.

Don't patronize us who fought, it is civilians like you who make the wars we had to fight in and some died in. When I was in Vietnam the only thing I fought for was to stay alive!

What you are saying makes you feel good and that's why you are saying it. They are empty words because suffering and killing and death (that you can't begin to comprehend) are what you are honoring. That is man at his worst not his best!

[Zix]

126. Bravo, sir. Please say more things like this!

:thumbsup:

Time to ditch the fantasies and lies.

[county worker]

151. No need for the bravo, it's just how I feel.

I get different feelings when I here things from different people. To some they feel appreciation and that is OK but the poster that I replied to seem so unknowing about what he is saying.

[Mike K]

124. I, too, have great respect for those who fought

for our Country. And they looked to its flag with pride because their cause was just. They were defending it against two powerful nations both of which had the means to invade, occupy and enslave us. Of course I'm talking about those who fought in America's last war, which was fought against the Japanese Empire and Nazi Germany.

The military adventures that followed, from Korea to the present debacles in the Middle East, were not and are not wars in the true and essential sense of the word. They were and are avoidable, unnecessary and in some examples, shameful exercises in armed aggression and avoidable folly. And those who bore arms in them for one reason or other, and who are capable of reason, either know or should know they have cause for regret but not pride.

In the years that followed the Great War the United States has fallen from grace, both in the eyes of the world and in the hearts of its reasoning populace. The absence of pride does not mean one "hates America and everything about it" but that one is painfully and regretfully aware of the changes in our national character which have come about as the direct result of political corruption and mismanagement.

"If fascism comes to America it will be draped in a flag and carrying a cross."

[Kievan Rus]

145. I'm planning on permanently moving to Europe the first chance I get

[Captain Hilts]

199. Their residency and citizenship requirements are FAR tougher than ours. nt

[femrap]

216. Austria is the easiest to gain

citizenship....you can buy it. Last I heard it was $400,000.

[Greyhound]

168. Snark & hide. What an awesome American you are.

:rofl:

[mwooldri]

175. We don't hate America. We want to FIX it when it's BROKEN.

Flag's just a piece of material. Lizzie Windsor is a very nice lady who happens to live in an expensive Social Housing Project for free and gets a nice Welfare Check for doing so... Barack Obama won a contest that allows him the right to alter a few things that happen in our lives for the next four years at our expense living off our dime - oh yes and in some very expensive Social Housing Project - so special it's in a gated community of one house!

Yes I'm a non-American but I care for this country and my home country of the UK greatly. I respect more any individual who does sterling service for our country in a civilian or military capacity and would happily salute THEM. Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth II, President Barack Obama, the serving and retired military personnel on this board, those who serve in the civilian services (Police, Fire, Ambulance, Coast Guard), and those who work for our public good - I salute you all. Thank you for what you do.

As for a flag... it's just a flag. Shows where we come from, that's all. A flag is not what makes a country, it's the people that make the country and the flag is to signify the band of unity of these people. It's like a Club Badge.

You can salute the flag if you want. It's up to you.

I have a little "joke" with my son - he has to say the Pledge of Alleigance every morning at school. I tell him the British have a pledge too, and it's easy... "God Save the Queen." Apparently he's used it a couple of times after saying the American Pledge in class cos he's intrigued in the fact he's a dual citizen.

[quakerboy]

213. And go where?

I can pretty well tell you that if the OP dosnt have the resources to get her teeth taken care of, they probably dont have the cash or connections to move to another country.

So.. You foot the bill, and the OP might just take you up on it. Until then, STFUYHB

[dana_b]

35. I am in agreement with you

and the pain you are suffering is due to this scammed system. "Every time I read or hear in agreement with youabout painful cuts in the budget, I know the pain is going to be on those least able to compensate for the cuts." So true - I live in California and the budget cuts are always put upon the backs of those who can least afford it. The wealthy?? Well they need all the tax breaks they can get!! :sarcasm:

stargazer, I hope you find some peace

[awoke_in_2003]

165. it's the new "American Way"...

Like George Carlin said "They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe it"

[muffin1]

36. I am so sorry for what you are going through.

I feel your pain. It is disgusting that citizens suffer and die in this country because they are cannot afford treatment. I am in the early stages of cervical cancer - and I have no insurance. I just had another tooth pulled because I couldn't afford the treatment to keep it. It cost me $300.00 to have it pulled, btw. And, this tooth had already had a root canal AND I had a bridge over it, so I lost the (paid for) bridge, too. Last year, I had another one pulled that had already had a (paid for) root canal. I have no dental insurance, but even if I did, it covers very little. It is fucking ridiculous. I've never had dental insurance that paid for anything other than x-rays and cleanings - and it only pays for part of those. One's dental health affects one's overall health.

Yes, the poor are fucked, and will probably always be fucked. It would have been nice if President Obama had pushed for the public option (not to mention single-payer). And it would have been nice if the chicken shits in Congress had thought more about us than their re-elections.

Again, I am so sorry for the loss of your daughter, and your entire situation. I'm also sorry for the shitty responses to your thread. It's one of the reasons I won't be around here much anymore. I'm so tired of all the fighting and snark.

Take care of yourself the best you can.

[shireen]

58. hang in there ...

i am so sorry to hear about your illness and situation.
:hug:

[muffin1]

79. Thank you, my dear.

:hug:

[bobbolink]

92. Plus, now cutting disabled people off of their disability payments.

More deaths.... and these will be suicide by necessity.

Yeah, SOOOOO glad we have a Dem administration!

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

39. "Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's brains

"Flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people's brains and then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead." - Arundhati Roy

[Hissyspit]

119. +1

[bigwillq]

40. I stopped a long time ago

since I became an adult and have been able to make my own decisions. I used to put my hand over my heart in school during The Pledge and also when they played National Anthem. But stopped that a long time ago.

[11 Bravo]

42. I do. I love this country. Not blindly, for I see her faults ...

but I prefer to work for change rather than turn my back.

[shireen]

61. agreed ....

I'm so sad about all the awful things I see going on, but no matter how dejected I've felt, i can't bring myself to turn my back either.

But we all have our limits on what we can endure. Some people, like Stargazer, have been so beaten down that they are too exhausted to continue. She needs people like you and me to continue fighting the system on her behalf. That's what patriotism is really about, i believe, working for the greater good of the country and her people.

:hi:

[proudohioan]

82. You have done a huge honor to your avatar.....

Bernie (and all of us Democratic Socialists) would be (and are) proud of you today!

In Solidarity.
:patriot:

[shireen]

93. thanks ... i love Bernie

he gets it. he really really gets it.

[shireen]

94. duplicate post, deleted

[jesus_of_suburbia]

100. Me too.

I understand those who have been beaten down and can't endure the fight any longer,

but that's not me.


I hope I can help change our country for the better.

[Dappleganger]

155. I feel the same.

It's not just about ME, either.

[Hawkowl]

43. Ditto

When I look at the flag, I don't see the flag of the people or the constitution, I see the flag of Wall Street, Big Oil, and Big Pharma, all conspiring on how to make an extra nickel off of all of humanity even it means starving babies, paying "contractors" to murder civilians etc.

I view the flag as a symbol of oppression.

[immune]

74. "I view the flag as a symbol of oppression."

Whenever I see the flag I think "we're all Indians now".

Actually, the neighbors have a flag flying that I can't avoid seeing whenever I look out my window and a few days ago a freak gust of wind caught the lower corner of it and flung it up on the top of the pole and for several days it was stuck that way ... so each time I'd see it I'd think "its all twisted up", just like the country it represents. They finally got it released somehow and now its sporting a gaping hole in the bottom corner, which I can't help thinking of as being representative of the gaping hole in the gulf coast.

I could be wrong about this, but I'm pretty sure that the nasty attitudes on this thread and elsewhere come primarily from people who are flat out terrified of ending up in the same boat as stargazer and so many others who are suffering in this country. And they know no one will be coming to help them out, either.

[saracat]

44. What a powerful post. I respect what this nation "could be" and is" intended"to be

rather than what it is. It is exteremely sad that in a nation once considered the richest that your story is now the norm rather than exceptional.
God Bless us all and may we someday truly entitle all our citizens to "life, Liberty , and the pursuit of happiness".

[Catherina]

46. I am so sorry Stargazer

And I apologize for the terrible, heartless replies in this thread.

I hope you live to see some real change to a different system because this one can't last. They squeezed too hard and people are waking up.

[20score]

49. Sorry for your loss. And sorry there are so many unthinking assholes commenting on what they don't

understand.

Really, these reactionary dweebs can't let a person grieve without making moronic comments that boil down to, "Love it or leave it?"

[Echo In Light]

51. *edit* apologies..I think I misunderstood your comment

???

[20score]

59. Judging from the Carlin quote in your profile, I'd guess we're on the same page.

[Echo In Light]

60. Gotcha. It's one of those emotionally volatile OPs & I initially misinterpreted your words

[20score]

62. Cool. If you live in Southern California, I'll buy you a beer.

[Greyhound]

70. And yet, none of them are willing to do anything to help those that want to acquiesce.

[shireen]

52. A lack of EMPATHY

That's the problem, in this country and reflected in this thread.

All you self-satisfied self-righteous comfortable people, close your eyes and imagine yourself walking in Stargazer's shoes for a little while. Try to feel her anguish and anger. She has to live with that every single day.

Stargazer, my deepest condolences on the loss of your daughter. And I am so sorry to hear that you and your family are not getting the healthcare you need. It is a sad statement about our increasingly self-centered and selfish society, that we do not have safety nets to catch people and help them get back on their feet.

We're as strong as our weakest link. I don't understand why so many people don't get it.

:hug:

[Hydra]

83. You want to know why people people don't get it?

Because it's never happened to them.

I used to be a very active advocate for various things. I finally saw it when one of my co-workers started to have it as rough as I do. She'd listened to some of my info before, but now the eyes were open. Comprehension...and no way to do anything about it either.

I used to joke about being a doomsayer...but I say it now. We're doomed.

[SalviaBlue]

53. I am so sorry about your situation.

After reading your very moving rant, I started reading the response and I am just completely disgusted by the callousness being displayed by some DUers. I am really just speechless. I cannot understand what moves them to reply this way.

Anyway, you have summed up the very real problems so many Americans are facing right now in a very personal way. Thanks for doing that.

I hope things improve for you, your family, and all Americans for that matter, although I'm afraid we may FUBAR.

Peace.

[MadBadger]

54. I like how you originally thought this was lounge material

[awoke_in_2003]

169. what? is the lounge so damn special...

that only stupid shit like "kitteh" pictures can be posted?

[kestrel91316]

56. I've never saluted the flag - was I supposed to??

[marshall]

251. Military and Scouts salute

Some folks put their hands on their hearts, men take off their hats. Others just silently stand with their hands folded.

The other extreme is to burn the flag, or even more extreme is to actively protest like the Westboro gang.

In between is the object just to do nothing.

[Catherina]

57. And in this thread ladies and gentleman, is a perfect illustration

of what's wrong with this *New* Democratic Party.

Sickening.

[Greyhound]

65. K&R. "only in America".

I understand exactly how you feel. Willful ignorance is rampant.

:kick: & R

[fishbulb703]

73. That "only in America" bs is tired. Go live in Somalia.

[The Gunslinger]

97. It will be Somalia some day.

[ShortnFiery]

103. Yes, and sooner rather than later.

So many here act way too proud for their own personal welfare. What they don't realize is they too will be crushed under the OWNERSHIP after the impending marriage between government and corporate America.

They delude themselves into believing that that they are SPECIAL and will be included as part of the treasured "merchant class" in the upcoming feudal system. Willful ignorance runs rampant. Only the upper 1 - 3% will thrive in the very near future throughout the USA.

[femrap]

215. It will be 'interesting' to see

how these 'Proud' folks react to the upcoming 3rd World status we are headed for....they're probably so stupid as to go steal from the poor because they'll be afraid of the rich.

As the bumper sticker says: End World Hunger. Eat the Rich.

[fishbulb703]

221. ROFL. nt

[Moochy]

140. Fetal American Syndrome

quit drinking the nationalism, its poisoning your one remaining brain cell.

[Greyhound]

153. Oh noes! There's someplace worse so that makes it all better.

You need a better line of BS. Nobody buys this shit anymore.
:rofl:

[mwooldri]

161. When the words "Only in America" are used...

... it's generally the "first world countries" that are being talked about.

Somalia is not exactly a country anymore these days it's so fractured and divided.

The past memo was that America was #1 - #1 in this, that, and the other - all the good things that a country should be #1 about.

Problem now is that America is #1 for the wrong reasons.

Even despite the health care reform debate and laws passing and the timing of everything coming to pass, America still has the best health care facilities, doctors, etc in the world but the most dreadful way to pay for said facilities, doctors, nurses, etc.

I could knock America all day but I can't be arsed right now.

[awoke_in_2003]

170. nice bumper sticker

mentality there.

[MilesColtrane]

72. Started to read your post, but couldn't continue.

Felt like my eyeballs were being gang banged.

[William Z. Foster]

76. excellent post

Thank you.

Sorry for your terrible loss, and sorry that you are getting such hateful and pig-headed responses from people here. There are some who actually seem to enjoy the suffering of others.

Your perception and analysis of the situation is highly accurate, in my opinion.

[Dystopian]

77. KandR. My heart goes out to you...

My heartfelt condolences for your loss...
My heart is breaking...knowing that you've lost your daughter.
In spite of your loss...you have a deep caring for humanity...
Your post was not all about you and your sorrows..You are carrying the burdens of others also...
May you find peace of mind and spirit...
You're a beautiful soul...

As for the flag....it has never meant a thing to me.
Although it was useful to patch the hole in the ass of my jeans in the 60s...


peace~

[burnsei sensei]

81. You are not required to salute the flag.

Quote:
I'm fed up with this country and the ruling class. My adult daughter died from causes that could have been corrected if she could have access to medical care. the medical profession had the nerve of turning her over to a collection agency, nothing like killing your patient if they can't pay.
end quote.

My late husband died in similar circumstances.
My patriotism has been strained since then to say the least.
It was strained even more when I found that the government thought it should negotiate with the for-profit health insurance and delivery industries instead of destroying them by way of efficient single-payer.
It was broken once and for all when I found that citizens of flesh and blood did not matter beside ones of paper and interest.

I am sorry for your loss. The government should earn whatever respect you give it.
Social neglect should never be rewarded.

[bobbolink]

88. Having lost a son, I understand the pain you must feel about your daughter.

I am so sorry for what you have gone through, what seems to lie ahead, and the fact that it is all so avoidable.

I also apologize for the crassness of those who are unable to find compassion in their hearts.

:hug:

[Better Believe It]

90. Here's the flag that rules and represents America. Pledge Allegiance to this flag.

[shireen]

95. Playboy?!

:rofl:

[Better Believe It]

96. This is the official playboy flag.

[shireen]

101. it just cracked me up

to see the bunny interspersed among all those other oppressive symbols of mega-corporations.

Wonder how Hefner buys influence in Congress. :evilgrin:

[ShortnFiery]

105. To level with you, based on the recent PORN scandal in the SEC and Department of Interior ...

you better believe some of the most KINKY and DEMENTED people fill the ranks of our government and corporate world.

Enter too much expendable income and power: That breeds some really KINKY sexual deviations and these demented people who comprise many of the well connected politicos would totally gross you out.

[Go2Peace]

219. Question is... is it really "filled with porn viewing workers"? Like the schools are filled with

lazy teachers?

When I first saw that article I knew that it was another exageration. Don't get me wrong, I am sure there is corruption and deviants, and they probably are right wing scum, because it is usually the right wing moralists who cry purity that have the worst values, but I doubt that people right and left were viewing porn. It was probably a few and probably over a period of time. Obviously they did not have filters and when they added them they found it.

[Jeffersons Ghost]

98. K&R great point N/T

[ShortnFiery]

102. Our only hope to combat the unholy marriage between our government and large corporations ...

is LABOR SOLIDARITY.



I'm sorry to hear about your daughter. May our Higher Power provide you and those you love the comfort and strength to persevere. :grouphug:

[county worker]

106. You are so right! I am a union member and it really gets to me how

so many here want union members to lose benefits because they do not have them. They won't see that the thing to do is to lift everyone up not bring every one down.

I am a union worker. I have very good benefits but the ruling class is constantly pitting us workers against each other. We are so busy fighting among ourselves that we never see that by uniting we could all have good benefits.

[ShortnFiery]

111. Yes.

I agree. We need to work together instead of fighting over the scraps. :thumbsup: :toast:

[county worker]

104. I'm feeling a lot of empathy for you and grateful that I don't walk in your shoes.

I don't know if you have friends or relations that can give you any comfort but I hope you are not alone. The flag is only a symbol, it is not the country. At any time, every one of us could have a tragic thing happen that could put us into helpless poverty.

Tonight many Americans are at their wits end. From this computer all I can offer you is this. I was in your situation not so many years ago. There are any number of scenarios that may happen and one or more could be your salvation. Please do not give up on yourself and surround your self with other people because other people hold the key to the door that opens to the path that leads you to better days. It is never clear how it will happen because it is so serendipitous but if you try something just might work out right. I'm talking from experience here.

[tango-tee]

109. K&R nt

[laughingliberal]

115. K & R nt

[Ned Bro]

120. That's unfortunate

It reminds me of the last scene of that movie, In the Valley of Elah

[vercetti2021]

122. Well

I don't wave a american flag in front of my house, instead it's a canadian flag and no I'm not canadian either, but i do feel ya man on this, what has this country come to? People against people and no democracy for the middle class or poor. We're nothing to big corporate america and now to us, it's disgusting and painful to see this happen to good people who need help. What a sick place to live nowadays, and i do apologize in advance if I'm out of line on this.

[New Dawn]

129. K&R

[TheUnspeakable]

131. k&r-I'm so sorry for what you have endured..

I hardly ever post here anymore,the replies to your thread are a great example why not. I agree with every single word. I cannot stand the (ignored) suffering that goes on here every day. Meanwhile, celebrities like Oprah (from Chicago-where poor children are gunned down in the streets every day)
and Madonna (from Detroit, no less!) act like poverty only exists in Africa. Of course, maybe they really don't know-because our media totally ignores it. Anyway, I'm so sorry for your pain. I'm at the point where this country disgusts me and if I had the money, I really would leave.

[Madam Mossfern]

132. I fly the flag outside my house

Why would I want to give up ownership?
It honors the patriots that fought to establish our nation.
I would work to 'take back' my flag as a symbol.

I'm sorry for your circumstances, but I wouldn't blame it on the flag.

[Butch350]

249. A flag does not honor anything...

It's an individual who feels.

I don't need a flag, I don't need to tie a yellow ribbon, I don't need to wear buttons or arm bands
to be a Patriotic American - it's in my heart - not hanging on a flag pole or a wall!

[Bonobo]

133. I no longer trust the DU community enough to share my true feelings on this subject.

I used to.

Now? Not so much.

[awoke_in_2003]

171. it sure seems...

like we have a major infestation here.

[hack89]

135. I do and have taught my children to do the same

I love my country warts and all.

[roody]

142. I quit when Bush invaded Iraq.

[Kievan Rus]

143. I couldn't agree more with you -- I'm currently looking to leave this country

I agree with a lot of what you say. Anybody who thinks this is the greatest country on Earth is willfully ignorant.

A big issue I have with this country is how car-centered, oil-centered and anti-transit so many places are in this country. Peak oil is coming whether you like it or not -- its basic geology plus basic economics. Europe will weather peak oil a lot better than the United States. At best, the U.S. will enter a Second Great Depression when peak oil hits; at worst, the U.S. will descend into Mad Max-style anarchy.

I'm currently trying to learn Dutch, Swedish and German. As soon as I have enough money saved up and a steady job overseas, I plan on leaving for good.

[Fire1]

156. Many of us are right behind you or in front, which ever comes

first. Good luck to you and hope to see ya over there!:toast:

[chrisa]

146. I'm so sorry.

:hug: :hug: :hug:

I'm so sorry for your situation. Despite the rude responses on this thread, 99% of people here do support you!

Btw, please join me in alerting the 'TLDR' and trolling flamebaiters on this thread. Thanks!

[Mimosa]

149. I used to feel 'patriotic' but this country has been getting worse

I understand and sympathise, Stargazer.

Nothing has been going right for so many years. Jobs were shipped to other countries in order to exploit cheaper labour. People are sent off for an endless war which is probably unwinnable. And now, worst of all, the environment of the Gulf of Mexico ha been poisoned.

[Javaman]

152. paragraphs are your friend. don't be afraid of them. nt

[mikita]

154. crass and unnecessary observation,

given the obvious pain the poster was in.

In my opinion only, of course.

[Javaman]

201. I understand what you are saying...

but frankly, when I see a poorly structured piece, I just can't read it.

Yeah, I'm a writing snob and admit it.

[mikita]

209. well ok,

if you're a writing snob, you may want to edit your thoughts in a subsequent post:

" You comment, doesn't even make sense."....


And if you simply can't read a poorly structured piece, WHY do you feel a need to broadcast it?

Do you think you added anything to the discussion?

[Javaman]

237. Perhaps the author

would take time to put in breaks, that's why I responded.

[auntAgonist]

179. the format is more important than the message? ? ? ?

How sad that there is more caring for the formatting of a message than the words therein.


:shrug: :eyes: :shrug:

[Javaman]

202. If it's hard to read, yes. nt

[Onceuponalife]

217. I suggest you invest in a pair of glasses if you have trouble reading.

[auntAgonist]

227. +1000 exactly.

Compassion gets thrown out the window and the message is lost because someone is picky about formatting.

What is this place coming to? (rhetorical question)

[Javaman]

238. yeah, that's an idea...

:eyes:

how very witty of you.

[Forkboy]

182. Knowledge is yours. Don't be afraid of it.

[Javaman]

203. ?

You comment, doesn't even make sense.

[Dystopian]

242. Have mercy on your soul

[fascisthunter]

258. was this necessary or are you nitpicking because you disagree with the content

[Fire1]

157. Great rant, Stargazer! My sentiments exactly. n/t

[Wednesdays]

166. "My teeth are rotting along with my adult grandson's..."

So? You should have laid off all that sugar!
:spank:
Personal responsibility! Personal responsibility! Personal responsibility!
:spank:

Needless to say:
:sarcasm:

[geckosfeet]

174. I am part of this country. You are part of this country. Lets take it back.

[Name removed]

181. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Capitalocracy]

193. My condolences for the loss of your daughter.

I don't know the circumstances but I'll take your word for it that it would have been preventable had her access to health care not been dependent on her economic resources in the nation with the most inflated health care costs in the world, and this is a grave injustice. I do not judge you for feeling less than patriotic, and I sympathize with how you feel.

I'm sure you already know that violence won't change anything or make you feel better. What you may be convinced of right now, however, is that there is no way to change anything, and I just want to present to you the idea that change may still be possible. No, it won't come from Barack Obama, it will come from a bold progressive movement who, like you, has no blind faith in any symbol.

But if you look back in history, I think you'll understand that as time passes, there are trends toward progress and trends moving backward, and right now the progressives are fighting against the tide of globalized concentration of power among the wealthy and corrupt. But although progress is slow, we have still managed to move in the right direction when you look at the big picture. This is because you can repress a good idea and you can criminalize it, but you can't kill it, and people will always fight for it.

I hope you can find the strength to join that fight instead of giving up on the world.

BTW, I also want to point out that this backward movement we're experiencing today is happening on a world-wide scale, not just in the U.S. and under the U.S. flag. The U.S. plays a protagonistic role, but it's just because the government of our superpower nation has been taken over by people who represent the interests of the corrupt and wealthy, not just in the U.S. but all over the world. And they're putting mechanisms in place all over the world to move wealth from the middle class/working class to the rich and widen the gap between rich and poor, and make sure the middle class fall on the poor side. So the U.S. will start looking a lot like a third-world country, depending on how long we let this $hit go on.

I'm going through some pretty hard times myself, btw.

[earth mom]

204. WTF? Only 50 recs! Sorry that I wasn't able to give this OP a rec!

I totally understand where you are coming from and am sorry for your pain. :grouphug:

It blows my mind that some people on this thread STILL defend the status quo!

Newflash for ya'll: Obama & Congress & Corporate America don't give a flying fuck about you!

All they care about is what little money you've got and they are working overtime to take it away from you every goddamn way they can! :grr:

[pundaint]

229. It's important that we try something different. Just winning doesn't change a thing. Fire Congress

[alp227]

231. Well said despite controversial title. K/R/N/T.

[Just-plain-Kathy]

234. My heart goes out to you Stargazer99....

I grew up as a Yankee Doodle believer in our beloved country. Now I don't even place a flag on my porch like I had for twenty years. ...I even took my anti-Bush bumper stickers off my car (had those on since 9-11). ...I'm heart broken about what happened to our country.

[scentopine]

239. Wait there is a new flag being designed by DLC

it has 500 stars. One for each corporation in Fortune 500.

[DailyGrind51]

252. This nation is no longer the one my father fought for in WWII.

My father enlisted in the Navy, even though he was in his 30s and had not been drafted, because he saw what FDR and Progressive Democrats had accomplished for him and other working class Americans. This is no longer his America, and it is no longer mine.

[tinkerbell41]

253. First I am sorry for your loss and on-going troubles

I stopped a long time ago. I don't stand anymore when at public functions when they play star-spangled banner, or say pledge. To me it is some whacked-out creepy cult thing. I don't get why you pledge allegience to a piece of property. Or a way of running things. Yeah, this is where I live, I was born here, but really having never seen other parts of the world, or hearing only one side of things, how can you decide ours is the right way??? I mean it's all about power, and killing and making policies against other people to keep that power. Cutting off weaker people to benefit others is creepy. I don't agree with it, I don't have an answer, but I won't go along with the herd mentality.
My way of thinking has always put me on the outside, but I can live with it, and look myself in the mirror everyday.

[I Dreamtoomuch_2]

254. Stargazer99

I support you.

Look on the bright side, your post made the homepage. :)

and :kick:

[Admiral Loinpresser]

255. America is dying.

The sad thing is much of the Dem leadership is facilitating this moribundity (if that ain't a word, it should be). I really believe we need a left-wing teabagger movement in this country. I am really offended by that health care bill. Personally, I would be much better off financially if it had not been passed. I will have to pay an insurance premium that I can't afford. There is no upside because I won't be able to afford to use the benefits of the insurance. Even if the fed gov later partially re-imburses me, I still won't be able to afford it. I consider the health care bill a poor man's tax. Ironically, the "poor man's tax" will disproportionately affect women and children.

When the hell are the rich going to pay their share in this country???

Finally, I was moved by your OP. I fell on some times in the Bush era. I never became homeless, but it sometimes seemed like a possibility. I guess those experiences may help me get some understanding of what you are going through.

[Goldstein1984]

257. Welcome to a growing number of us.

My views on the United States have changed over the years. I once believed it was the greatest nation on Earth. Now I'm only staying here until I find someplace that sucks less.