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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 06:24 PM
Original message
Essay: Let us reject the anti-Greek mythology...
Edited on Tue May-25-10 06:52 PM by JackRiddler
and show solidarity with our Hellenic sisters and brothers!

Fellow DUers,

Imagine that in this space I wrote an essay blaming the economic troubles of the United States on overpaid union workers, the pernicious influence of ACORN and SEIU, tax-and-spend liberals like Pelosi, lazy tenured teachers, corruption at the “government enterprises” Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and deadbeat subprime borrowers.

All of you would attack! In short order I would be banished from the site for promoting outrageous right-wing fictions.

Yet every day many of you, largely unawares, accept or promote equally pernicious myths about the situation in Greece.

You know that politicians, the corporate media and talk radio lie when they make scapegoats of workers and the poor in the United States. Therefore you should at least suspect that they are doing the same in their daily characterization of Greeks as a spoiled, lazy, riotous people whose irresponsibility will wreck the euro and sink the world economy -- and when they call for punitive austerity measures and, if necessary, a political crackdown as the solutions for the "Greek problem."

The sources of such statements and the way they echo common right-wing myths about American economics should alert you at the very least to do your own research before forming an opinion.

Let’s begin with a dozen relatively simple facts -- one for each Olympian god -- that counteract the mythology about Greece in the corporate media of the Anglosphere and Germany. We shall see that Greeks indeed are subjected to a vicious and defamatory mythology, one that no DU members should ever want to propagate.


1) People in Greece work harder than in any OECD country other than Korea



The average Greek worker logs 700 more hours in a year than the average German worker. The way these numbers are gathered varies from country to country but the difference is great enough to dispose of the myth of the hard-working Germans called upon to rescue the spendthrift Greeks. Source: OECD, https://community.oecd.org/community/factblog/blog/2010/05/10/working-9-to-430

2) The average Greek wage is 73 percent of the average EU wage. The minimum wage is terrible.



3) Greek pensions are lower than in other OECD countries.

As an American-trained Greek economist wrote last week in “The Street,” according to “Eurostat and GSEE data, 60% of Greek pensioners receive less than 600 euros per mo. And 85% receive below 1050 euros per mo. Greek pensions are about 55% of the average eurozone pension, despite inaccurate claims about pensions made in the international media. The usual age for retirement of most people in Greece has been 65 yrs, except for some very special cases in the public sector, which are now being revised upwards –and rightly so- with a new pensions law.”

Source: Polyvios Petropoulos, “Truths and Myths about the ‘Greek Crisis’,” The Street, 18 May 2010, at http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2010/05/guest-post-truths-and-myths-about-the-greek-crisis.html

4) Greek government workers do not really receive “two bonus months” of pay a year.

That is a manipulative way of saying that some Greeks receive their annual salary in 14 instead of 12 paychecks. It says nothing about the actual amount. In the past, the government intentionally negotiated legitimate wage raises as “bonus” payments, precisely so that in a pinch they could claim these were superfluous. Eliminating “bonus” payments is nothing more than a way of cutting already modest annual salaries by one-seventh.

5) The alternative to the small number of early pensions is higher unemployment.

Much is made of the supposed scandal that some Greek government workers receive pensions already in their late 50s. This factoid is used to great effect in countries like the United States, where pensions are endangered. It is classic divide-and-conquer. It causes jealousy among those who should instead be fighting for their own economic security. The macroeconomic bottom line, however, is that a few modest early pensions help ease a perpetually difficult job market. In the absence of other changes, later pensions translate into fewer jobs for young people. A few older workers would keep their jobs at higher pay. The country would still have to figure out how to provide for even greater armies of the unemployed than is the case today. That this would be cheaper is doubtful. The point being that early pensions are not a cause of Greek fiscal problems, as they have been depicted in the Greek-bashing propaganda.

6) Entry to the euro was a bad idea for Greece -- and a good one for German business.

Prior to the euro, the comparatively lower Greek wages and pensions were more tolerable because the cost of living in Greece was lower. Currency union prompted rationalization of prices across the eurozone. The cost of living in Greece is no longer significantly lower than in other euro countries, even as Greece has been subjected to direct competition with euro-priced German products, resulting in higher trade deficits. Greece no longer has the means to improve its competitive advantage via currency devalution. German export industries have benefited (also in the other euro countries) while Greece has suffered even greater capital flight than has always been the case. Germans have no business complaining about the euro as a disadvantage to their country now that Greece has been forced into the corner by the policies that were advantaging German business.

7) German households carry far more debt than Greek households.



(NOTE: A common way economic pictures are distorted is by focusing on public debt without including corporate and household debt. Here we see that by the debt-to-GDP standard, Greece’s total debt is not much higher than the UK’s and lower than all of the other EU countries said to be in crisis, although Greek public debt is higher. The red blocks denote household debt. Note that German households have accumulated far more debt than the supposedly profligate (though underpaid!) Greeks. Given Germany’s higher per capita GDP, that means an even larger difference in absolute totals.)

8) Greece’s external sovereign debt - that owed to foreign creditors - is lower than Germany’s



This is true both of the absolute per-capita debt and by the debt-to-GDP standard. In absolute terms, Greece’s per capita sovereign debt is also lower than that of the United States.

9) The Greek deficit is lower as a percentage of GDP than the projected British deficit.

10) Greece has not been offered a bailout.

The EU and IMF have offered a package of new loans attached to extreme austerity conditions. The program is not a giveaway, it merely shifts around Greek obligations. It is not the debt restructuring or “haircut” for bondholders that is the only solution for an ultimately unpayable debt.

Furthermore it will not work, despite the harsh conditions it imposes on pensioners who must now make do with 450 euros a month -- or not! -- and many other disasters for the working class. Pavlopoulos writes,

“The claim made in the IMF documents is that the “program” (including the inhuman austerity conditions and targets) is “achievable”, “feasible” and “sustainable”. On this point, however, the IMF of course has not been able to convince some of the most prominent economists and commentators (Krugman, Feldstein, Stiglitz, Rogoff, Eichengreen, Johnson, Roubini, Rodnik, Buiter, Reinhart, Fitoussi, Wyplosz, Wolf, Munchau, among others, mentioned here in no particular order.) All are saying in one way or another that the numbers do not add up. In other words, the arithmetic shows that even with this IMF/EU package, the Greek debt is not sustainable. (See in particular Buiter’s latest 65-page research report ‘Sovereign Debt Problems in Advanced Industrial Countries’.)”


Pavolopoulos then points out: “Nor did the IMF convince the markets with this package,” which we saw in their reaction since. “In fact,” he says, “I am beginning to believe that nothing will convince them.” He attributes this to the irrationality of the markets.

And I agree with his belief that nothing will sway the markets, though for more fundamental reasons. As long as the conditions of global capital flows are set up such that players with no stakes in a country can make more money from watching that country burn than from investing in it -- or from merely leaving it alone to smolder in its own problems -- they will continue to light the fires.

This is what Europe doesn’t want to deal with, but must finally acknowledge. “Free” or unregulated world capital markets are never going to work to the advantage of sovereign states. The drive always will be to break them down, turn incipient problems into far greater ones so that the bond vigilantes can reap awesome windfalls.

11) Cuts in public spending during a recession are likely to increase public deficits.

This may seem counter-intuitive, but that is exactly what happened last year in Ireland as a result of the harsh austerity measures instituted there (naturally to the applause of the bond markets and the bankster criminals who bear the greatest responsibility for the world economic disaster). Removing the stimulus of public spending during a recession merely caused the Irish economy to shrink further, resulting in lower tax revenues, higher spending on the unemployed, a higher deficit and a higher debt-to-GDP ratio.

In other words, the bank-approved Irish package was a failure in every way, but a failure that benefits the banks naturally will be designated for implementation in other countries. (You would think that people never heard of Keynes, and are not aware that the Great Depression was overcome by extreme deficit spending. Though in the end this was due to World War II, because conservative resistance impeded the New Deal until the Japanese vote at Pearl Harbor forced the issue, one hopes this time a better way will be found.)

12) The former long-time head of the Bundesbank itself says Greek debt should have been restructured, and the program offered instead was “to save the banks and the rich Greeks.”

Here’s a short excerpt from Karl Otto Pöhl’s interview this week with DER SPIEGEL at http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,druck-695245,00.html

SPIEGEL: The German government has said that there was no alternative to the rescue package for Greece, nor to that for other debt-laden countries.

Pöhl: I don't believe that. Of course there were alternatives. For instance, never having allowed Greece to become part of the euro zone in the first place.

SPIEGEL: That may be true. But that was a mistake made years ago.

Pöhl: All the same, it was a mistake. That much is completely clear. I would also have expected the (European) Commission and the ECB to intervene far earlier. They must have realized that a small, indeed a tiny, country like Greece, one with no industrial base, would never be in a position to pay back €300 billion worth of debt.

SPIEGEL: According to the rescue plan, it's actually €350 billion ...

Pöhl: ... which that country has even less chance of paying back. Without a "haircut," a partial debt waiver, it cannot and will not ever happen. So why not immediately? That would have been one alternative. The European Union should have declared half a year ago -- or even earlier -- that Greek debt needed restructuring.

SPIEGEL: But according to Chancellor Angela Merkel, that would have led to a domino effect, with repercussions for other European states facing debt crises of their own.

Pöhl: I do not believe that. I think it was about something altogether different.

SPIEGEL: Such as?

Pöhl: It was about protecting German banks, but especially the French banks, from debt write offs. On the day that the rescue package was agreed on, shares of French banks rose by up to 24 percent. Looking at that, you can see what this was really about -- namely, rescuing the banks and the rich Greeks.

SPIEGEL: In the current crisis situation, and with all the turbulence in the markets, has there really been any opportunity to share the costs of the rescue plan with creditors?

Pöhl: I believe so. They could have slashed the debts by one-third. The banks would then have had to write off a third of their securities.

SPIEGEL: There was fear that investors would not have touched Greek government bonds for years, nor would they have touched the bonds of any other southern European countries.

Pöhl: I believe the opposite would have happened. Investors would quickly have seen that Greece could get a handle on its debt problems. And for that reason, trust would quickly have been restored. But that moment has passed. Now we have this mess.


Having dealt with a selection of the more common myths, let’s take a look at what’s really happening in Greece -- and Europe and the world.

The Greek ruling elite is corrupt, not unlike our own. Historically the rich have kept their money abroad and avoided paying almost any taxes. That is a major cause of Greece’s particular problems. Capital leaves the country, which is left with a weak industrial base and dependence on foreign tourism and public sector spending.

The euro accelerated the process, as we touched upon above.

To get by, it’s true that the underpaid, overworked majority of Greeks engage in the hidden economy with vigor -- although in this as well, we should counter the mythology by nothing that Germany's cash-only economy is estimated to be of a roughly equivalent proportion to that of Greece.

A series of scandals over more than a decade have revealed a riot of bribe payments to Greek officials, especially by foreign corporations -- including German giants like Siemens -- in exchange for sweetheart contracts and policy favors.

Under the conservative New Democracy government, members of this compromised political class conspired with Wall Street banks, prominently Goldman Sachs, to hide a burgeoning Greek debt, although this meant higher debt service for Greece and thus only exacerbated the problems down the line. Apres moi, the deluge: This and other accounting tricks were revealed when ND was voted out last year, triggering the present crisis.

That became the signal for the bond vigilantes to descend. Since the crisis broke, Greece has been under relentless attack by the financial press of the Anglosphere (the Financial Times has featured it almost every day as a front page story) as short-selling bond traders have cashed in on Greece’s misery without having any stake whatsoever in the country. They have forced the country’s interest rates higher and made the problem all the more intractable.

The propagandists of completely free capital markets are not just looking at Greece, of course. They would like to discipline all of Europe for the unforgivable sin of having maintained working social welfare systems for its peoples. To them Greece is the wedge by which Continental Europe should finally be forced into the neoliberal fold. The conservative governments of Germany and France are playing into that strategy in a short-sighted fashion that may indeed break up the euro, as the less competitive countries will no longer be able to sustain it.

They seem blind to the reality that in the end, they will have to act to defend their own countries against the same practices that are sinking Greece, and that are being prepared for the next phase of the attack -- on Spain, Portugal, and Italy. Europe faces a choice between the future of its union and the well-being of its peoples, and the approval of the bond markets who brought on the economic crisis in the first place.

The time has come to contemplate things that are heresies under neoliberal capitalism but mere common sense in the real world: reimposing a system of currency controls, such as the Bretton Woods regime under which the capitalist world actually saw its greatest period of prosperity for the people from World War II until the early 1970s. (My idea of what the world really needs is more far-ranging than that, but this would be a start to stop the bleeding.)

The Greek crisis is the world crisis. We all know that it’s not by coincidence that dozens of countries have simultaneously been hit by the same financial tsunami and economic depression that originated, above all, with the multiple gargantuan frauds of Wall Street and the inherent dynamics of uncontrolled capitalism. Countries around the world are carrying unsustainable debts in large part because of those frauds.

The banks that are still borrowing for zero percent from the Federal Reserve under the absurd terms of the US banking bailout expect to sink that into government bonds that yield more than three percent -- or in Greece’s case, six to ten percent -- and to have repayment of all public debts enforced by the US Treasury, the IMF, or in Greece’s case Germany and France, the EU and the IMF. The skin must come out of the people who have the least.

In the past, sovereign debt crises like Greece’s have been dealt with by default and restructuring. Default is not always the disaster that the bond markets and their corporate propagandists at CNBC want us to believe. It was the only thing that truly rescued Argentina in 2002, during a comparable crisis.*

Argentina is not a paradise as a result, but it’s far better off than it was under the austerity plans it suffered through under the aegis of the IMF. Argentina’s default was followed by growth and relative relief for its people. It happened only because those people rioted against injustice and toppled a series of five presidents within a few months before one of the men on the presidential merry-go-round, Kirchner, finally had the guts to tell the IMF to fuck off and give Argentinean bondholders a haircut -- instead of starving his people to please the bond markets.

Argentina, like Greece, like the United States and most other countries, had actually paid off a sum comparable to the original principals borrowed. It’s the compound interest that makes these debts unsustainable -- all the more so at a time when governments take on greater debts to save the very banks to which they owe the debts! Once a country starts falling behind, compound interest practically guarantees that it will fall further and further back on a treadmill of payments.

This is insanity. The Greeks striking and fighting on the street are not demanding “ponies,” they are defending themselves and their children. They are refusing to labor only for the bond markets and to force an eternal debt on their children. They are your brothers and sisters on the front lines of a fight that is happening everywhere in the world -- a fight that will intensify in the United States as we go forward. You should hope that they do indeed force their government to back down, to reject the EU-IMF plan, to impose a haircut on the bondholders, and finally, if necessary, to restore sovereignty over their own currency -- and a monetarist even as famously hardline as Germany’s former head banker Pöhl knows it.







* TOTALLY SIDE NOTE: An aversion to countries making use of the national equivalent of bankruptcy procedures when no other option is left to them would seem strange coming from a country that recognizes the individual right to bankruptcy, and in which that right was used at one point in their careers by both of its most celebrated business men of the past century: Walt Disney and Henry Ford.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 06:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. Americans may eventually riot too, when it gets bad enough.
However, the oligarchy has their heavily armed praetorian guard waiting in the wings.



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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. Wow! Already at least one unrec!
What lame ass shit!

:kick:
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. It's obviously the speed-readers vote.
Read the headline, what more do you need?
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girl gone mad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. There is a certain segment here that just doesn't want to hear these facts.
And never mind that history has taught us very plainly that austerity only worsens recessions. It's what they've been trained to demand.

Never mind that reducing public pay and benefits will only put pressure on private pay and benefits, too. They insist that it's the solution to a debt crisis caused by a gross economic imbalance.

Scratch the surface and they have absolutely no understanding of how national economies function, but they sure like to make demands as if they have all the answers.
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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 06:31 PM
Response to Original message
3. See also: Sam Seder- That's Bullshit: We're not Greece
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Odin2005 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 06:35 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
6. K&R. Thank you for going to all this work to lay out the truth.
I don't know how to comment on this, all I want to do is curse a blue streak. We are being done to death by sociopathic parasites.
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. Outstanding post!
Edited on Tue May-25-10 07:36 PM by Octafish
Thank you, JackRiddler! The Money Party, cough War Party, are interested in continuing one adage:

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer.

They OWN the government. If it wasn't so, the rich turds in America'd be paying a lot more in taxes -- especially in "war time" -- and the middle class would be growing, not becoming the new poor; and there'd be routes of escape from poverty -- good public education and jobs.

Tighten your belts, Hellas. What Goldmine Sacked did to you, they're planning to do to the United Slaves of Austerity.

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bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 08:20 PM
Response to Original message
9. Well Done.
You get an A+,

AND a big K&R.
:patriot:
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Spheric Donating Member (512 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 08:41 PM
Response to Original message
10. Outstanding! K&R /nt
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scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
11. *kick*
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ThoughtCriminal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-25-10 10:24 PM
Response to Original message
12. Zeus Lives!
oh... not that Greek mythology. Sorry.

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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 03:04 PM
Response to Original message
13. Addendum 5/26/10: I am a lazy Greek!
As a moderately lazy person who feels no need to apologize for it, and as a Greek, I have in my life seen first-hand that I am the exception.

Greeks work prodigiously, within a culture passionately committed to family, education and advancement of the group. The diaspora communities prospering in many countries around the world, our modern-day and peaceful Greek colonies, are one testament to that work ethic, and home to at least as many Greeks as live in Greece. In these days we must bear slurs on our people by the ignorant and quick-shooting pundits and orientalizing supremacists of the Anglosphere and Germany, at least those among them who imagine that their system and their peoples are without sin in the Greek (and world crisis).

More tomorrow, for now an addendum.

Above, item 10, last paragraph:

"This is what Europe doesn’t want to deal with, but must finally acknowledge. “Free” or unregulated world capital markets are never going to work to the advantage of sovereign states. The drive always will be to break them down, turn incipient problems into far greater ones so that the bond vigilantes can reap awesome windfalls."

Might also mention, as it is at least as important: So that foreign direct investors are assured of low-cost, pliant work forces, and always have an exit door open to them if it turns out otherwsie. That's what "globalization" has meant in actual practice.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 08:02 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Today's "Mallard Fillmore" serves to illustrate a point I made about the function of anti-Greek...
Edited on Wed May-26-10 08:10 PM by JackRiddler
propaganda.



See, "Fannie Mae." The right-wing's bogeyman of the "subprime crisis" that caused the financial meltdown because liberals forced the poor banks to lend money to inner city deadbeats. Coupled with "Greece," the international signifier for the same kind of racialized propaganda: they're lazy, profligate and looking for handouts. Which the liberals are giving them -- taking it out of the hardhat hides of hard-working white guys. And remember, US is barely if at all involved in the Greek "bailout" (actually yet another bailout of the banksters, as we have seen).

"Greece," a reactionary trope.
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readmoreoften Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
15. +10,000,000
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
16. Kicked, too late to recommend and bookmarked.
Edited on Wed May-26-10 08:19 PM by Uncle Joe
Thanks for the thread, JackRiddler.:thumbsup:

P.S. The sacrifice cartoon at the bottom is gold.
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riderinthestorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
17. Posts like these are what make DU great. Too late to rec but an evening kick
I've got close and dear friends who are Greek. They immigrated from Athens 5 years ago to help their children succeed educationally and socially. They have sacrificed so much, they work so hard, they are the kindest, most lovely family. I am honored to call them my close friends. They are sickened by the media mis-representations of their country and culture.

Thanks for the detailed explanation. You are a DU treasure Jack Riddler.
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unkachuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
18. allow me to offer a big fat kick for truth and justice....n/t
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UTUSN Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed May-26-10 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R #18 or something just for my man Zeus and his progeny, can't read the O.P.just now.... n/t
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Luminous Animal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:08 AM
Response to Original message
20. Kick.
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Hannah Bell Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:21 AM
Response to Original message
21. Excellent OP. wish i got here in time to rec it. bookmarking to link for the "those lazy greeks"
contingent.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #21
22. Yeah, they know to stay away from this one, I guess.
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Kitty Herder Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 10:00 AM
Response to Original message
23. Thanks for gathering this information in one place! nt
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Laughing Mirror Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:16 AM
Response to Original message
24. Excellent!
Great work, Jack R. I hope everybody reads this, and I appreciate how you've laid it all out. Thanks!
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LongTomH Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Great post! Great job of researching facts!
I need to take lessons from you!
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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
26. The main problem is that too many Greeks don't pay their taxes

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world/europe/02evasio...



ATHENS — In the wealthy, northern suburbs of this city, where summer temperatures often hit the high 90s, just 324 residents checked the box on their tax returns admitting that they owned pools.

So tax investigators studied satellite photos of the area — a sprawling collection of expensive villas tucked behind tall gates — and came back with a decidedly different number: 16,974 pools.

That kind of wholesale lying about assets, and other eye-popping cases that are surfacing in the news media here, points to the staggering breadth of tax dodging that has long been a way of life here.

Such evasion has played a significant role in Greece’s debt crisis, and as the country struggles to get its financial house in order, it is going after tax cheats as never before.

Various studies, including one by the Federation of Greek Industries last year, have estimated that the government may be losing as much as $30 billion a year to tax evasion — a figure that would have gone a long way to solving its debt problems.



Generous benefits such as early retirement, good health care and 2 months extra salary each year for civil service workers are nice, but so many Greeks dodge their taxes that there is not enough money to pay for all of these goodies.




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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 04:49 PM
Response to Reply #26
29. My problem, for starters, is you didn't read my post before replying with the standard TPs.
"Early retirement" and "2 months extra salary" are myths. These are right-wing constructs with which the Greeks have been battered in the international arena. I deal with both of these canards above. They are analogous to the Tea Party rhetoric about ACORN and subprime deadbeats as the cause of the 2008 financial meltdown.

I do mention the tax evasion of the rich above as the first cause, historically, of the Greek "crisis." It's not at all the main reason for what is happening right now, which is driven by two factors:

1) Bond vigilantes are taking advantage of real fiscal troubles (which in large part were caused by the financial meltdown) to attack one European country after the next. They are happy to watch the world burn if it makes money for them.

Those of you who blame the Greeks and heap ridicule about our hardworking people are doing the propaganda work for the banksters, intentionally or not.

2) Instead of coming up with a strategy for defending against the international speculators, the EU monetary architects and German and French monetarist hardliners want to punish Greeks for some imagined unusual profligacy. This is also a myth, as detailed above in the comparisons of Greece to Germany.

Their idea of justice is to induce a punitive deflation of the Greek economy, followed by the Spanish, Portuguese and Italian economies, until Germany finds that it has reduced its own markets and is itself plunged into the market. It's like they have a murder-suicide pact with the banksters, and Greece is one of the extra victims.

As with many other cases around the world, the international capital markets nowadays seem to exist to exacerbate problems and profit from destruction. Nothing that the EU-IMF and nothern Europeans put together is going to satisfy them, because they will always see opportunities to earn from ruining them. Europe's time has come: defend or die.

As for Greece, national debts are rescheduled all the time without the world ending.

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Nye Bevan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #29
34. I did read your essay. You glossed over the big problem of tax evasion.
It didn't even get its own bullet point. You did mention in passing "the rich" evading taxes, but in Greece it's not just the rich who tax-dodge. As the New York Times article said:


Some of the most aggressive tax evaders, experts say, are the self-employed, a huge pool of people in this country of small businesses. It includes not just taxi drivers, restaurant owners and electricians, but engineers, architects, lawyers and doctors.


http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/02/world/europe/02evasion.html

The best strategy for a country to defend against "bond vigilantes" and "international speculators" is to not spend more money in social benefits, civil service salaries and bonuses, etc., than it raises from taxes. In Greece either tax enforcement needs to be better or government spending needs to be reduced.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #34
35. No I did not. Read the essay title again, it should tell you what the subject is.
Edited on Thu May-27-10 11:34 PM by JackRiddler
The point of this post was to deal with the pernicious set of right-wing myths about Greece that you, among several on this board, also propagate. Not to tell the whole history of Greece.

It should be an embarrassment to you that your first move on this thread was to once again smugly spread the lies about widespread early retirement and "two bonus months," as though these aren't refuted above. Cease and desist with your anti-Greek defamation, sir.

In the second section, after detailing twelve facts that refute common myths about Greece, I did summarize a lot of Greek history and political economy leading up to this moment of crisis.

In the first paragraph, I touched upon the role of the Greek rich. In the third paragraph, I spoke of the Greek underground economy. Neither was "glossed over." Both were fit into an overall picture within a short space. This isn't a book.

And if it were it would be my book, not yours.

You're never one to hide your sympathies:

"The best strategy for a country to defend against 'bond vigilantes' and 'international speculators' is to not spend more money in social benefits, civil service salaries and bonuses, etc., than it raises from taxes."

Two of your faulty premises are clear, and until 2008 they would have been mainstream -- among Republicans, DLCers and free marketeers. No longer.

These are:

1) Private-party foreigners who manage billions of dollars have the right to sit in judgement over nations that they do not even have investments in. They rightly have the power to punish those nations for failing to meet monetarist criteria. If some hedge fund hyena thinks Greece is sub-standard, he has a divine right to buy swaps on Greek debt and push up the interest rates at which Greece must borrow, and fuck the people on the street. Pure unregulated money rules the world by divine right.

2) Deficit spending is the devil. If you'd had your way, we'd still be in the first Great Depression. This is stone-age capitalism. Everyone's abandoned it in practice, because it never worked, but there are many who still avow the old religion.

As for the New York Times piece, which of course I've read, its facts are true enough but its omissions are strategic. Above I also touched on the myth of the Greek black market, which is comparable in size to the German.

And you have to love reading this in a New York City paper:

Some of the most aggressive tax evaders, experts say, are the self-employed, a huge pool of people in this country of small businesses. It includes not just taxi drivers, restaurant owners and electricians, but engineers, architects, lawyers and doctors.

Dude, that's New York City. I see that every day of my life. It's how people get by here. A few hundred thousand small-time contractors doing house repair jobs and walking dogs and peddling whatever comes along. The "small businesses" of Greece as the Times notes at another point, are often men who sit all day in a sweaty box on the corner, selling papers, candy and cigarettes.

To pretend the cash economy that gives the beleaguered middle and lower classes a thousandth of the leeway the rich have with their offshore havens and SIVs is a phenomenon particular to Greece is hilarious coming from the Times, but from you it's just the usual dose of blind self-righteousness.

Tax the rich first. Ban the bond vigilantes. Then the people can begin to confront their own responsibility in the mess, without being shat upon at every turn.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:31 PM
Response to Reply #26
33. M$M, anti-worker propaganda. And we call ourselves the intelligent party. Lol. nt
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leftstreet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 12:55 PM
Response to Original message
27. kick
Excellent!
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Blue_Tires Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
28. kick for later
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Prometheus Bound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
30. Good info, but I question the significance of Item 8.
What is external sovereign debt?

It doesn't make any sense to me because Hong Kong is listed as #10, but HK basically has no public debt. The government has hundreds of billions of surplus invested in stocks, bonds and foreign currency ostensibly to ward off attacks on the dollar peg or stock market.

When I looked it up it seems that it includes things like inter-company lending and so forth.
http://www.statistics.gov.hk/publication/stat_report/national_income_bop/B10400042008QQ01E0100.pdf

So it seems to be irrelevant to this discussion.

Perhaps something like public debt would be more relevant, but I don't really know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

Thanks again for the great information.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:24 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. External SOVEREIGN debt, to my understanding...
Edited on Thu May-27-10 06:29 PM by JackRiddler
is what the public sector (government) owes to foreign entities (banks, funds, private investors, etc.) In the US, that would be the T-bills held by China, Japan and the rest of the US government's foreign creditors.

The chart you looked up has all of HK's external debt statistics, including those of the central bank, banks and businesses. The sovereign part would be only what's listed under "General Government". This consists entirely of "bonds and notes" and adds up to 13.592 billion HK dollars as of 2008/Q1. That is peanuts in absolute terms, but still apparently adds up to enough that HK's sovereign external debt is tenth largest, BUT ONLY WHEN expressed as a fraction of the GDP. That's a useful measure for comparisons among most countries but HK is actually one city serving as a gateway, free trade zone and banking center for China. Counting it as its own country makes it look like a bizarre outlier. (Imagine New York City was its own country.)

Now it may well be the case that HK also holds assets that are enormously higher than the total sovereign debt, and has no balance of payments problems, etc. Again, city-states are going to be outliers.

The relevance of the rest of the chart in the Greece discussion is that this is a measure of what the Greek government owes to the outside world. It is smaller as a fraction of GDP than many other countries that aren't having the same crisis right now. The timing and intensity of the crisis are very much due to German-French obstinacy about their self-image as responsible countries that are allowed to discipline Greece, and of course the actions of the bond markets.

Thanks for the question!
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
32. Knowing the intent of the M$M, we still have those who suck up the anti-worker poop
like it's mother's milk.
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:28 PM
Response to Original message
36. Too late to recommend. +1 n/t
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 01:52 AM
Response to Reply #36
39. That's quite alright... your penance...
is to help me kick this daily for a while, so that a few hundred more people can read it. Greetings!
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Catherina Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #39
40. I humbly accept. Kicked for more people to see n/t
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 10:40 AM
Response to Reply #40
41. Ouch! Why are you kicking me?


Thank you Madam may I please have another?
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:29 PM
Response to Original message
37. Nice essay, now can you have the Greeks give me back the part of my 401k they stole?
Edited on Thu May-27-10 11:30 PM by HughMoran
I'm joking!!

:D
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kentauros Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu May-27-10 11:43 PM
Response to Original message
38. I'm not Greek, but my nickname is!
So a mighty kentaur-kick for the thread :D
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-28-10 08:13 PM
Response to Reply #38
42. Two-legged hind kick! Yes!
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Karmadillo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 01:29 PM
Response to Original message
43. Kick
nt
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 06:48 PM
Response to Original message
44. And now the attack on Spain has begun
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Unvanguard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 06:58 PM
Response to Original message
45. Very good post, but the impact of the euro should be put front and center.
Edited on Sat May-29-10 07:00 PM by Unvanguard
The basic reason behind the Greek disaster is the impact of capital flight on its economy when the global economic crisis struck. Without the euro, this would have meant currency devaluation; with the euro, it has meant deflation, which means an even more serious recession, which means less capacity to repay its debt, which means spending cutbacks and higher interest rates, which means an even more serious recession...

It has nothing to do with social welfare programs. It is a disaster of a monetary policy that put the liquidity of capital above the economic security and welfare of actual human beings, combined with past governments that kept the population content with public spending without cracking down on the corruption and tax evasion of the rich.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 01:51 AM
Response to Reply #45
47. Very true. But why is the crisis blinking red right at this moment in time?
Excellent analysis. Instead of devaluation, deflation. Thank you.

Nevertheless, it's happening everywhere. The constellation of local factors varies, but one nation after the next is being serially subjugated to the repayment of debt burdens that the banks to a large extent themselves caused. The bond vigilantes are always ready to swoop in and exploit any weakness they find. In Greece, the big weakness is indeed that it can't control its currency.

The exact timing is due to an attack on the euro zone by hedge funds and banksters. They decide when the bomb is set off, for their own profit. The deficit hawks who run the euro zone create the opening by refusing to stimulate, let alone reschedule debt. They basically agree with the goals of "making labor markets more flexible." They don't care it will hit them sooner or later.

This is not supposed to stop. The market groupthink beast is echoing with what is in effect a schedule. Spain is now on the chopping block, Portugal will be hit with it, Italy and probably a second round for Ireland are coming next. If France and Germany go into recession as a result, they become vulnerable.

This summer Britain will be hit despite having currency control. By winter look for it in the US again. Of course, at any time the dynamics can spin out of control and trigger worldwide, uncontrollable panic. You saw the crazy 1000-pt. spike a couple of weeks ago. Volatile and dangerous times.
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-29-10 06:59 PM
Response to Original message
46. MASSIVE kick.
Well done. Very well done.
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #46
48. Thank you! Is that dog of significance?
It's a popular avatar. Does she have a name?
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stillwaiting Donating Member (591 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 01:43 PM
Response to Reply #48
49. I picked the avatar because I've got a female Golden Retriever.
Golden Retrievers make me very, very, VERY happy.

I love the breed.

I imagine the others who've chosen the avatar just might feel the same way.

Just a hunch...

:)
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-31-10 08:27 PM
Response to Reply #49
52. Lovely breed. Lovely dog.
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Populist_Prole Donating Member (774 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
50. Greece is the new France
AAaaaannnnddd another kick, in lieu of a belated rec. Just more of the same RW BS trying to validate slash & burn US style plutocracy by getting a dig in at Europe. What's next, "Freedom Salad"?
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun May-30-10 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #50
51. And Spain is the new Greece, but wait until the US is the new Spain!
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jun-01-10 12:29 PM
Response to Original message
53. & Greece is the new "Subprime"
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jun-03-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. & another provisionally final kick for readers
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JackRiddler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jun-04-10 05:06 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. total surely utter provisionally final kick
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