The Oil gusher in the Gulf is going to be a much bigger problem

[randr]

This is going to go on for a long time before anyone gets the oil stopped.
The destruction will be beyond our imagination.
When the scale of destruction becomes apparent Obama will be blamed.
This problem should have had an immediate response from all governing and operational bodies. A clean up of epic scale should have been launched utilizing all possible solutions. Tankers should already be in place trying to suck up the massive oil blobs below the surface. The military should have been called in to facilitate underwater evaluation and study.
BP has been allowed to try and recover as much oil as they can without regard to shutting the flow. They should be ordered to step aside for an international team to evaluation and resolve what they can.
BP claims to more than a month away from a possible shut down. By that time it will be far too late and Obama will have the entire problem on his hands.
I really hate to think it, but it appears Obama is sitting on his hands and letting BP call the shots.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. Obama should have ran the option in the second quarter.

[louis-t]

2. Gee, I thought the 'private sector' could do a much better job than the gubmint.

I also wonder what Obama could have done that would be any better. Does the government have the equipment or resources to handle a situation like this?

[dixiegrrrrl]

3. Wonder if this is what it will take to make enough people LOUDLY angry?

[Champion Jack]

4. Where's that damn button....

[Solomon]

14. LOL I thought it was going to be the magic button that Obama only has

to hit to solve all problems at once. Then I scrolled down and saw what the button says.

[Webster Green]

5. If BP is giving orders to the Coast Guard, then Obama deserves to share the blame.

This is bullshit. Obama needs to get off his butt and address this disaster. He's aloof, and he's acting like a fucking idiot.

Looks like he's owned by big oil, just like all the rest of the politicians. (except for maybe three or four).

I'm beyond pissed. He will not get my vote again, unless he starts showing some leadership, and stops trying to please the fucking wingnuts.

[islandmkl]

6. exactly what apparatus was at the administration's disposal to deal with this rupture?

...the lack of oversight was inherited, and obviously not addressed with haste...but is there some secret method the military has to deal with this?

the fucking corporations that endeavor to pursue these 'techniques' to procur their mighty resources ARE SUPPOSED TO ENSURE THIS DOESN'T HAPPEN...

you can point your finger at the Interior all you want...the truth is that BP got away with all that they could, BY DESIGN...

'just the cost of doing business'....

Obama might be blamed, but the truth of the matter is unavoidable...the oil industry entrenched itself so deep that a housecleaning won't cure the problem...

it's going to take a total demolition of the section of Interior overseeing this industry...and, maybe thankfully, this situation brings everybody to the realization of what the oil industry has been able to accomplish, AT OUR EXPENSE, for the past 20 or 30 years....

it sure as hell hasn't provided cheap oil-based products, has it?

but the stockholders are happy...so there you go...

[ljm2002]

7. When a national crisis occurs...

...where, again, does the buck stop?

Oh yeah. Smack dab in the Oval Office.

It is time for him to take control of the situation and apply more resources to the cleanup, while ensuring that BP does what they're damned well told to do. That means BP should have NO say in what information is and is not released publicly. It means BP should not have final say on what method will be tried next, although they have input and are required to provide their equipment and expertise in good faith. It means that our "free" press should be allowed to report on this disaster, including first person reports on site, rather than being intimidated and threatened with being arrested.

Geezus. If Bush was doing the exact things that Obama is doing right now, people here would be ALL OVER IT.

Obama, get a clue. Better yet, get a club and start using it (metaphorically speaking, of course).

He didn't cause this disaster. But he is the President and he is obligated to do what he can to mitigate it.

[islandmkl]

12. where the 'buck stops' does not stop the leak...

forget the political fallout...do you think someone in the military, or anywhere else for that matter, has some idea how to actually stop this leak?

the politics will fall where they may, but this fucking oil is going to foul more that we may comprehend, and no amount of 'political fallout' will have any remote thing to do with solving the problem...

which one of us geniuses knows how to stop this leak, you know, THE THING WE ALL KNOW...yet we think the administration is just sitting back and letting things flow, so to speak...

you have the cure, call the White House...they are anxious for your input...

apparently, it's like this: BP has a major catastrophe, man-made, in a industrial setting that only THEY have any expertise...and they have been operating in such a manner for decades...and now it's Obama's fault this isn't corrected RIGHT NOW...

nice reach, if you want to ignore the reality and find the easy end-all of the blame game...

BP is to be despised, among other things, but what stretch of your imagination would cause you to think this is just OK for them?...

this disaster may ruin a lot of things...I believe Obama's future is down the list...except for the armchair QB's...

[ljm2002]

13. I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT THE GOD DAMNED POLITICAL FALLOUT

I'm talking about the environmental fallout that is getting worse by the day.

No one has the answer. But entrusting BP to find that answer is folly of the first order.

Item: BP is using a less effective and more environmentally harmful dispersant that others that are available. Not surprisingly, the company that makes the dispersant has close ties with BP. And why, again, are they allowed to make this call?

Item: BP has consistently downplayed the size of the spill and has released short video clips only when pressured to do so. And why, again, are they allowed to make this call?

Item: BP, along with a complicit Coast Guard, prevented CBS reporters from landing on a beach to report directly on this ongoing incident. And why, again, are they allowed to make this call?

Item: BP lies about the percentage of oil they are reclaiming with the pipe they installed inside the broken pipe. They can do this because no one knows the real size of the leak because BP won't release the information, nor will they facilitate the gathering of that information by independent scientists. And why, again, are they allowed to make this call?

Item: BP refused to release data on air and water quality as it has affected their own employees. And why, again, are they allowed to make this call?

Item: BP looks to be criminally responsible for the gusher, as their own man refused to leave the mud in the pipe as cementing was being completed.

Item: BP's CEO thinks the oil is "just a drop" compared to the size of the Gulf.

And you don't see why the government should take this bull by the horns and direct operations? BP can and must make their expertise and equipment available. BP most certainly should not be making any final calls though.

But you go ahead whistling past the graveyard. If this administration is truly doing everything that can be done, they are doing a piss poor job of letting us know it. But I think they aren't doing it, and I think the reason is that they don't want to own it -- they are afraid of the political fallout if they take over and it isn't fixed. The way I see it, though, is if they are out there pitching, people will respond to that despite the outcome. Whereas if he continues to remain unengaged, the political fallout will be severe.

And just to be clear, once again: I DON'T GIVE A DAMN ABOUT THE POLITICAL FALLOUT, but I do give a damn about what is happening to the Gulf. I want ships sucking up water, and straw being dispersed to absorb oil, and animals being cleaned, and anything and everything that can possibly be done in terms of cleanup to be happening right now. Hire the fishing boats that have been laid idle. Hire the unemployed. Hire specialists. Find volunteers. We should be having a national response to this, and we are not, and that is shameful and pathetic IMO.

[tsuki]

21. +1000

[randr]

24. Right ON!

This is beyond politics and requires leadership!

[stevedeshazer]

27. What you said.

[SammyWinstonJack]

28. ^5

:applause:

[glitch]

41. Right, because the Federal government has never hired private contractors before to...

oh wait. :crazy:

[pokercat999]

8. In this case the "cost of doing business" should be the

nationalization of BP and the incarceration of their entire officer corp including the entire board of directors, CEO and all executive officers. This could all be handled quickly and cleanly by a military tribunal.

[amborin]

9. let independent scientists make accurate measurements, put BP in trusteeship, refuse to allow BP

to use 500,000 gallons of toxic dispersant that's banned in Britain; allow independent scientists, engineers, technicians to brainstorm the problem and have access to the data that BP and Coast Guard and NOAA suppresses......


our EPA refused to allow Dutch skimmer ships suck up the contaminated water to remove 95% of the oil, b/c they'd put the water back into the gulf w/ 5% oil......

yet they allowed the toxic dispersants.....

[flamingdem]

10. We'll see nt

[HCE SuiGeneris]

16. We'll see?

We should wait and see how destructive this will be? That's like saying "we'll see" as you look at a gaping hole in the bottom of your boat as it gushes water into the hold.

Fuck no! All available resources pertinent to this disaster should already be deployed.

[flamingdem]

19. I agree fully with that sentiment. What I do not know is what's going on with the administration

so not ready to blame them for lack of effectiveness yet.

[Ruby the Liberal]

11. The Government is apparently waiting for BP to give them permission to enter the area.

[lostnfound]

15. Sorry to see it or to say it..

but I agree that he needs to take more decisive action. The President needs to explore every option to stop the gushing, and every option to soak up the oil, and to communicate with the American people what is being done and what can't be done and why. If it is impossible for BP to suck up oil slicks into tankers, we need to know, or there will be second-guessing and fingerpointing back at Obama and it will hurt the Democrats -- particularly in Florida.

[islandmkl]

17. square one: there is no 'soak up the oil' for a problem of this magnitude...

the fucking hand-wringing is absolutely of no value...there is NO SIMPLE SOLUTION...BP and all were allowed to venture into this endeavor without any fucking clue of how to deal with such a situation...

there is no magic bullet to stop this oil-flow...you want a solution...go back about 20 years and stop this drilling...

the 'fail safe' apparatus, which had never HAD TO WORK...DIDN'T WORK...and every mfer on earth is SURPRISED??

since there is no real cure at hand, if i was Obama, i would just throw any needed resources at the situation, tell BP 'tell us what you need, or what we need to do' because there isn't anybody on earth that knows exactly what to do...and i would continue to keep the focus on BP...this is THEIR fucking problem...except now it's ALL OUR PROBLEM, TOO...

i am still waiting to see, hear, whatever, a cogent plan for solving this problem that is not mostly playing 'blame somebody'...fuck, BLAME BP and it doesn't need to go further...

ask the previous administrations how all this shit got 'developed' without necessary precautions...

i still don't see what anyone wants the administration to do other than 'get more involved'...in what goddam way...

"hey, Barack, break out the oil booms, put the shrimpers out there mopping up..." - that sounds effective if you are in some place that has no scope of the nature of the Gulf, its size and flow, and just how much fucking oil can be contained in ONE MILE of depth, let alone the breadth and length of its flow...

the reality is that this mess is uncontrollable, and basically un-'cleanupable'...except for the shit that finally hits shallow waters and the shores...

[janx]

18. Someone who knows about corporate law posted here

today that BP can call the shots until it has proven itself incapable. Then there was the letter from Sierra, National Wildlife, Audubon, and other groups to President Obama calling it just that. (Two of the groups, Sierra in particular, are suing the federal government as well).

I'm wondering if we aren't watching something play out here, something that will essentially render BP out of the picture except for financial liability. I hope so.

[tsuki]

20. The Gulf is dead. They are killing it with all the dispersal chemicals

that are causing the oil to settle and coat the seabed. But don't worry, there is enough oil to make it to the Gulf Stream and up the East Coast.

[G_j]

22. they allow BP the command!?

what is that about? People hate to hear "Obama's Katrina", but it just may be.

[BeFree]

23. Obama's Katrina?

I hate that term. Hate it!!

But it just may come to pass that it is an accurate term.

I hope BP will let Obama take charge? %*@$#

[randr]

26. This is going to go way beyond Katrina in damage

and the criminality grows with every passing hour.

[BeFree]

30. Yes it is

I'm done. Fuck it.

This is Obama's Katrina.

I campaigned for him amongst a bunch of redneck assholes and took all kinds of abuse. And he is spitting in my face by not acting on the biggest disaster of my life.

That's it. This is Obama's Katrina. He has utterly failed to do his duty. This is actually worse than Bush sitting there on 911 looking stupid.

When they hear me telling them Obama and BP are in bed together raping the gulf, they just may arrest my ass. I hope they fucking try. Bring it on Mother Fuckers. Bring it on.

[janx]

25. See post #8 in this thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x8370194#8370249

[G_j]

35. so they should declare it a crime scene

and a direct threat to America's national security.


I wanted to respond on that thread, but it was locked.

:-(

[time_has_come]

29. So, making/ordering to BP step asside and bringing in another team is what should happen?

That's quite a huge move, and you don't explain why it's the best/preferred move at this time.

Why does it appear to you that Obama has dropped the ball here? Because he didn't remove BP from the picture?

[jimlup]

33. An emergency team of Engineers should be immediately appointed to

as government representatives. There function at first would be to audit BP's efforts. If they decide that BP's efforts are short of what is required then they should report to the president that he needs to appoint someone else to work in parallel with BP's efforts.

We can not afford to assume that BP can solve this on its own.

[jimlup]

31. Yeah, I hate to say it but I do believe Obama should be responding more forcefully

This is a major emergency and has been for some time. We need to pull out more stops to get this stopped now and BP does not seem to be capable of doing it.

We need to get some serious engineering brainpower in on this no matter what BP says.

[time_has_come]

32. The best people are working on it now, as far as I can see.

If Obama had better people/resources to stop the leak do you seriously think they woundn't be in there?

[jimlup]

34. Yeah, I hope to hell you are right but ...

I also hope my Senators and congress people are asking Obama this very question right now. Thank God I live in a Blue state and I can rely on the intelligence and hard work of most of my congresspeople! I do trust Levin to be on it. I hope that Obama is but I'm not sure of it. I wish he would forcefully reassure me.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

38. It comes down to motivation.

BP seems more interested in finding a way to salvage their drill site/the oil than stopping the gusher in its tracks.

One month. ONE MONTH that thing has been spewing, with no end it sight.

If the governemnt steps in, the efforts move from salvage to shut it the hell down ASAP.

[4_TN_TITANS]

36. I don't think Obama is sitting on his hands for nothing.

How long has the MSM lambasted us with "too much government / big government" tea bagger protests? I certainly don't think it should be at the expense of the gulf ecosystem, but my southern state neighbors are about to get a huge lesson in the role of government. The states' economies are already taking a major hit.

[hugo_from_TN]

40. So you're saying he is purposely dragging his feet to make the problem worse

in order to make a political point? If that were true (and I don't think it is), he should be arrested and jailed.

[OneBlueSky]

37. you'd think the U.S. Navy would have some deep sea capabilities . . .

that could contribute to evaluating and solving this problem, maybe not quickly, but certainly faster than BP will ever manage . . . have they been called in to help? . . . if not, why not? . . .

[northernlights]

39. +1 x 10^20

:(

[lib2DaBone]

42. This spill is equal to the Exxon Valdez every other day...

.. it has been a month now.. which means we are already at a disaster 15 TIMES BIGGER than the Exxon-Valdez.

The detsruction of major fishing grounds, and the possibility that this oil could get into the food chain via the up-coming hurricane season....

Yes.. Mr. Obama and a team of our best scientists should be stationed there 24/7 until this is stopped. This is an eco-disaster of HUGE proportions.