5-Year-Old Handcuffed While Mother Watches

[Roon]

LEHIGH ACRES, Fla. -- A startling scene outside a party store brought a Florida woman to tears.

The woman said she saw a sheriff's deputy arresting a 5-year-old boy as she was pumping gas at a nearby 7-Eleven. She snapped a photo and described it as an "out of control situation."

"That's not a way to treat a child, that's not a way to teach a lesson to a little boy," said the woman, who asked to remain anonymous.


The little boy's mother said she asked the deputy, a friend and 15-year veteran of the Lee County Sheriff's Office, to "arrest" her son as a way to scare him straight.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/23606269/detail.html

[fascisthunter]

1. self-delete

[kiva]

3. Um...you read the article, right?

You know that mom asked a family friend to pretend to arrest her son to scare him away from playing with matches and lighters?

I disagree with mom's idea, but it was her idea. This isn't about a "nazi meat head".

[fascisthunter]

8. thanks for that

[DeSwiss]

2. This must be the "better way" that Neocons......

...are always raving about, when they complain about the detriment of the "liberal Dr. Spock methods" of child-rearing.



K&R

[hlthe2b]

4. ???

I would surely knock the living shit out of someone who put their hand on my dog in any but a friendly manner...How on earth can a mother let this occur to her young child? I just don't understand these kind of people.

Ok.. on edit I see the mother asked for this to occur. So, she AND the deputy are moronic meat heads....

[TexasObserver]

5. The mother's lack of judgment should be the issue.

Is she capable of properly rearing this child?

Does she need parenting classes?

Is she mentally ill and given to lapses of bizarre behavior?

These are questions that should be answered. This was abuse, and should be treated as such.

[katzenjammers]

21. It's her kid and she ought to be left the hell alone to raise him as she wishes.

There's no abuse there, that is a completely insane claim.

[TexasObserver]

28. She's abusive to the child if she had him put in handcuffs.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with modern notions of child abuse.

This isn't the 1950s.

[virgogal]

33. I wasn't aware the handuffing children was considered OK in the fifties,and

I was around then.

Who knew?

[TexasObserver]

39. Then you're aware that abuse of children was common in the 1950s.

Perhaps you should familiarize yourself with modern notions of child abuse, too.

[virgogal]

53. It was not common in the fifties. And I'm

familiar with modern notions of child abuse so the sarcasm was hardly necessary.

[TexasObserver]

57. Yes, child abuse was common in the 1950s.

And there was little in way of governmental controls of abusive parents.

Perhaps you should read about the era and get some idea of the amount of physical abuse against kids that today would result in their removal from the home. Your personal experience notwithstanding, physical abuse of children by adults was common - by parents, by teachers, and by other adults.

[virgogal]

60. You mean The Greatest Generation wasn't so great after all.

They would have been the abusing parents.

Sad !

[TexasObserver]

61. No, they weren't so great. That's a marketing slogan.

In the 1950s, parents did not typically tell their children they loved them. They did not express their emotions physically in a positive fashion. They didn't express themselves well with kids, at least not in a positive direction. Americans of that generation in the 1950s were typically racist, sexist and jingoistic. That was America in the 1950s, not Father Knows Best (Princess! Bud! Kitten!).

Ronald Reagan wasn't really a war hero, and John Wayne wasn't really a tough guy.

[virgogal]

63. So the fact that they didn't actually tell their children that they loved

them or physically embrace them means they are abusers?

I was a first grade schoolteacher in the mid and late fifties and saw no abuse,or signs of abuse in my class.

You are painting Americans of the fifties with a very broad brush.

[TexasObserver]

65. Your statement is illogical and not based upon my statement.

You rely upon an intellectually dishonest approach: you claim your opponent says something other than what they say. I don't respect that in a poster, and having seen in it you twice, choose to consider your comments unworthy of further attention.

Your rationalizations notwithstanding, the 1950s were an era when children's rights were few and physical abuse was common.

[katzenjammers]

38. I'm perfectly aware of the results of permitting minor misbehavior and how it leads to

serious mischief if it isn't nipped in the bud. You won't ever convince me that this mother had anything but the kid's best interest at heart, or that she did anything abusive.

[TexasObserver]

40. Nonsense. Abused children are more likely to be criminals, not less.

[katzenjammers]

48. Well, I guess you told me, with that brilliant response.

:eyes:

[katzenjammers]

54. Nice after the fact editing...but you have no evidence there was any abuse in this case.

Not legally and not morally. I'm not real big on dictating to others how to raise their kids and I think anybody who does that is being a shit. And your claim is at best anecdotal and at worst, unprovable.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. They put the handcuffs on, they took the handcuffs off.

Christ. It's not like they beat him with a baton.

[TexasObserver]

44. The consistency with which you're wrong is amazing.

Do you ever get one right?

Any parent in America should know better than put a child that age in handcuffs and make them think they're headed to jail.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

47. Do you?

[JerseygirlCT]

73. I don't think it lets the guy off, though either

If another parent insisted I do something harmful to his or her child, I'd still be responsible if I agreed to it.

[xultar]

6. I must be weird because I don't see a problem with a mom asking a friend

who is a cop to do that.

What if the kid was stealing or beating up on his little brother or sister or classmates ...or friends and she's talked herself blue in the face and the kid won't stop.

If I thought it would help, I'd do it. I'd also take him on a tour of a jail. Shoot I'd do what ever I could to turn my kid around if they were out of control.

[one_voice]

7. I agree with you to some degree...

When I was a freshman in high school, a kid that lived in my neighborhood started "acting up" his step dad was a cop. One night he and a friend broke into a vending machine. So the step dad let him be arrested, he told the cops to give him the "treatment" scare the shit out of him. He left him locked up for two days. Two months later the kid shot himself, with his step dad's service gun. My best friend was his girlfriend at the time, and she said the boy, Scott, wasn't right after he spent that time locked up. No one knows what "treatment" he was given or if this was the reason the kid killed himself. My friend was convinced that it was. He timed his suicide to coincide with his mother getting home from work, but instead it was his little sister he heard come in the front door so it was her that heard the shot and found him. The sister thinks he wanted his mother to find him since she allowed his step dad to do that to him. I guess we'll never know.

On the other hand, when my brother was 13 he and a friend got ripped, and broke a window to a flower shop. They were both arrested. Of course the cops called right away, and my parents waited like 3 hrs before they went to get him. He acted right after that. HIs friend puked in the cop car and my parents gave the cops permission to make my brother clean it up.

Guess it depends on the kid and the situation. I don't know.

[hlthe2b]

9. A five year old? Maybe an older child.... Seems way too young

for the "scared straight" routine.

[joeybee12]

11. Agreed...maybe a teen, but a five-year-old is insane...n/t

[xultar]

13. You heard about the 7year old who stole his granny's car right?

Shit is changing.

[joeybee12]

55. It's only gonna traumatize a kid at that age, not teach him anything...

...only make his behavior worse in the long run.

[xultar]

14. The goal is to get to the child before something goes wrong...the 7year old that stole

his grandmothers car to do gangster stuff...kids in the past did that shit in high school.

Now you regularly hear about younger kids driving...and doing bad stuff. So I don't see 5 years old as too young because they are doing bad shit at earlier ages.

[aikoaiko]

17. I agree. Unlike the real Scared Straight where teens are threatened with anal rape for 3 hours.

This could have been an instructive lesson for the young boy.

[xultar]

20. Based on my childhood and what I've seen, they already know about rape.

[On the Road]

31. I Don't Either,

but a lot depends on how it's done. I'm not in favor of elaborate charades with a child, but if it's handled correctly with a family friend, and it's a serious enough issue, I can see a parent resorting to this measure.

Of all the things people do to their kids, this is not high on the list of outrage.

[lumberjack_jeff]

32. I agree xultar.

Being scared is not the worst thing that could possibly happen to a kid.

I think there's a reasonable question whether the average five year old is able to benefit from the lesson though.

[JerseygirlCT]

74. I don't know...

It seems to me that if the kid is that out of control at 5, some serious parenting has been absent for five years, you know?

At five, they're still usually pretty eager to please the adults in their life. And they're beginning to be able to understand the reasoning behind why what they've done is wrong. An important time to really work at those lessons - with example, with explanation - and all of that with lots of repetition.

I'm not really sure what a handcuffing episode does to teach a kid. Scare him, yes. But teach?

[elocs]

10. This is simply wrong on so many levels. If this is done to a 5 year old in public,

what is done to him in private? I've had a 5 year old and I would never have anyone put handcuffs on her at that age and if they tried they had better have a loaded gun to stop me from stopping them.

So, if all misbehaving 5 year olds were handcuffed we could solve crime? I always thought that most crime is caused by poverty. So, what's the next level if the handcuffing doesn't work? Waterboarding?

What would have been wrong with having the law enforcement friend simply talk to the boy while in uniform? Because I don't think handcuffing the boy will result in him having a lot of trust in law enforcement after this.

[xultar]

16. When I was 7 or 8 a 13 y/o kid in my neighborhood wanted to rape me.

I didn't even know what rape was...he loured me into his parents basement garage and was gonna do it but got busted. I over heard him say to his friend...damn man I was gonna rape her.

This was in the late 70's.

Shit is crazy and shit has changed. Kids are raping each other, killing each other younger and younger. Don't think for a second that 5 years is too young for certain circumstances.

I don't even think I ever told my mom. I'll be calling her to tell her how grateful I am they got me out of there.

[elocs]

22. You don't handcuff a 5 year old to teach them a lesson. You just don't.

No excuses.

[katzenjammers]

24. I'm having a really tough time trying to figure out why this is anybody's business.

I guess it's just the old American Busybody Syndrome.

[TexasObserver]

30. Because we have laws about proper conduct with kids.

Putting them in restraints and scaring the hell out of them isn't considered normal behavior in this country. Perhaps your agreement with the mother and the outrage of everyone else is instructive. Learn from it.

[katzenjammers]

35. I do not need to "learn" from busybodies whose idiotic notions about discipline lead to

hordes of gangbangers, home invaders and thugs, thank you very much.

[TexasObserver]

46. Yes, you do need to learn modern notions of abuse.

As your posts amply demonstrate.

[katzenjammers]

56. Lacking any clear evidence of abuse, I mostly mind my own fucking business.

Apparently that's not a Democratic principle these days. :eyes: :grr:

[TexasObserver]

62. That's probably a good choice for you.

The evidence of abuse is in the photo and the story.

Do you have any idea what impact an experience like that can have on a child of that age?

Please broaden your horizons.

[elocs]

37. Well, I guess when you do it in public at a 7/11 it becomes the publics' business.

I think our society would be better if more people looked out for the well being of children.

On edit, enjoy your stay here. I'm not sure it will be long though. You really come across as something other than a "Democrat".

[katzenjammers]

43. Looking out for his well being is EXACTLY what she is doing!!!

Would you think it was public business if the kid, a few years from now, were to set fire to the 7-11?

:eyes:

[seabeyond]

45. having raised kids and being around many kids, i see no reason at all that a discussion

doesnt work with a little one, especially at 5. my thought is why in the world the mother has so little control and so little influence over her child that she was ineffective.

[elocs]

49. I think I'll just put you on "ignore", but I have the feeling you won't be at DU long anyways.

:nuke:

[xultar]

51. Why just because they don't agree with you? Don't make me laugh.

[xultar]

52. Too bad you found DU after it jumped the shark.

[seabeyond]

42. it is called a discussion board where different subjects and interests come up.... and

we discuss it. i know, i know. tough concept.

[AnArmyVeteran]

26. I'm so sorry for your experience.

And conservatives want to go back to the good ole days when everything was hidden and women or children had no rights and no where to go to escape the abuse they were suffering. I'm glad you made it though that close call without being physically harmed, but that little rapist bully has hurt you in so many other ways.

[xultar]

36. We were playing hid an seek. He told me to come hide in the basement

garage. I hid far from him in the room but an older boy busted in and said gotcha...and I'll never forget hearing him say I was gonna rape her. I didn't even know what it meant at the time. It was funny though because something told me to get the hell out of there and I did.

I knew then that I really missed something terrible happening to me by the skin of my ass.

When I think about it now it really makes me pause.

[Bombero1956]

12. Mom was out of line

There are ways to teach a child not to play with matches and lighters. She should have contacted her local fire department and asked to have the Juvenile Fire setters Intervention Program speak to her son. I checked and Denver has a program in place for Juvenile firesetters.

[CreekDog]

18. But the officer is not required to do something stupid that a parent asks him/her to do

are you letting the officer off the hook?

"officer, can you shoot that guy for me? thanks."

"but it's that bystander's fault for asking the officer to do it..."

[Bombero1956]

72. no I'm not letting the officer off the hook

The officer did wrong too. By the way there's a big difference between asking an officer to handcuff a kid and asking to have somebody shot. The officer should've told the mom that there are better ways to teach a kid a lesson than to make the kid afraid of the police. I was at a restaurant one night picking up dinner on the way home from work. I was in uniform and right near me was a family having dinner. Their kid was acting out and making lots of noise. The mother saw me and told the kid that the officer was there to arrest him for being a bad boy. The kid looked at me and a look of fear came over his face. I told the kid that I was a firefighter, not a cop and that I wasn't going to arrest him. The mom gave me a dirty look turned back to her food. I say shame on mom to using the police to scare her son and shame on the cop for going along with the idea.

[Roon]

50. I had a childhood friend that wouldn't quit playing with matches.

so his parents took him to the local fire station and they showed him pictures of burned kids.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

58. If a kid is playing with matches...

I dare say scaring the crap out of him is better than the alternative of not scaring the crap out of him.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. That woman is raising her child differently than I raise mine!

How dare she!

[katzenjammers]

27. Ding, ding!

:D

[TK421]

19. No way in hell this could possibly happen, I mean it sounds s....oh, Florida again

yup! must have happened!

[damntexdem]

23. "Scare him straight?" Traumatize him silly, rather.

She and the cop should both be arrested for child abuse.

[Clintonista2]

25. In elementary school I had a friend whose dad was a cop...

One time he thought she was lying to him about something, so he brought her to the police station and had one of his buddies pretend to do a lie detector test on her. She said after that incident she never ever lied to her parents again LOL.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

34. LOL

I know a guy who once dated a policeman's daughter when they were teens. He was a K-9 officer and would always command his dog to bark ferociously at the guy, but he never let on that he was doing it on purpose.

[seabeyond]

29. my first thought is what kind of mom needs that kind of help with a 5 yr old

the only moms i know that would need that kind of reinforcement, is the mom that isnt doing a very good job in the first place.

looking at the picture, i dont really really have a deal about what the cops did with the kid. the cops. but what it says is, the mom and her comment exactly tells me why she is an ineffective parent. the female cop was squatted down, to be eye to eye with the child. that tells me they were trying to be appropriate in their lesson to the kid.

it is the mom that fails.

[mitchum]

59. Maybe now the kid will grow up to be a genius director like Hitchcock

[proteus_lives]

64. The mom fucked-up.

I can see doing this with a 10-12 year old who is getting into trouble but a 5 year-old? Nah, too young.

[badgerpup]

66. Tough call...

No kids here, thank FSM...but there was a fire down my street thanks to a kid who liked to play with matches and Bic lighters...burned down the rental home in which his family lived.
No lives lost, FORTUNATELY...but that's still a hell of thing to cope with. I don't know whether they had renter's insurance for their stuff or not...judging by the way the family rolled, I wouldn't think so. They didn't strike me as 'think ahead' type people.

...and YES, the neighbors had called in Family Services on several other occasions before the Big One when they'd seen him lighting up. Didn't help much, apparently.

Sometimes it takes something drastic to get a kid's attention- get the idea through their little skulls that there's such a thing as CONSEQUENCES...and that even though sometimes the consequences seem way out of proportion to the action, they're real, you're stuck with them and there are no do-overs or take-backs.

This particular case-in-point...the old adage goes that 'The burnt child shuns the fire'.
Thing is, fire is an awfully chancy thing to mess with. It can get out of hand just like THAT (fingersnap)...and then the consequences can include permanent damage and nasty scarring...IF you're lucky and survive.

Think maybe the 'arrest'...while drastic, may have been the better call. Unlike just allowing the child to play with matches and learn the hard way that this is a really dumb thing to do, this was completely under control and thought out. Nobody was INJURED in the making of this point, is what I'm on about.

Yes, the kid was scared...but that means he was paying attention- maybe for the first time.
He may not have the ability to reason that 'playing with matches could kill me' (kids are so bullet-proof at that age), but he DOES understand that it will get him in trouble and so maybe he shouldn't do it.

Just MHO...YMMV. :shrug:

[L0oniX]

67. I'm surprised he didn't get tazered.

[UTUSN]

68. The kid is a budding pyromaniac AND near a gas pump. Are those FACTS?!1

If so, then all-ahead with the mom's strategy. Now, separate question, why is she so un-dominating over the kid, but if she is, well, then the cop strategy is FINE!1

[Heywood J]

69. The kid's evidently a little firebug.

I'm not sure how well kids at that age, with that particular obsession, respond to other forms of treatment. Starting fires isn't like grabbing chocolate bars - someone is likely to be horribly injured or killed. Given that gravity, this seems like a dumb way to handle the kid, but it doesn't look like it measures up to child abuse either. Depending on what else the kid has done before this happened, she may very well have been at the end of her rope.

[flvegan]

70. I don't know any background facts, so I don't have an opinion. n/t

[Bonobo]

71. Self-delete.

Not what I thought it was. Not even an arrest.