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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:06 AM
Original message
McCain says he sees the hand of God at the Grand Canyon
http://blogs.usatoday.com/onpolitics/2007/05/you_say_yo...

Three GOP presidential candidates don't believe in evolution

<snip>Arizona Sen. John McCain did not raise his hand but asked to elaborate. "I believe in evolution," McCain said. "But I also believe, when I hike the Grand Canyon and see it at sunset, that the hand of God is there also."

Most scientists consider evolution a pillar of biology, but religious conservatives have challenged it in recent years.

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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:12 AM
Response to Original message
1. What a profound idiot
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:52 AM
Response to Reply #1
26. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
28. Why does that make him a profound idiot?
Many people look around the world and see the hand of God in life. If you believe in God (in the Judeo-Christian sense), then you probably see His hand in the creation of the world. That doesn't mean that one doesn't believe in evolution, though. Most Christians I know believe that evolution is the natural process of God's creation. Of course most of the Christians I know are Catholic, Lutheran, Episcopalian, Presbyterian and Eastern Orthodox. I don't know many born-again multi-denominational Christians that would be more prone to full on Creationist belief. And none of the Christians I know dismiss Scientific belief. Nor do any of the Jewish that I know.
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:25 AM
Response to Reply #28
49. "And none of the Christians I know dismiss Scientific belief."
Scientific belief is a contradiction in terms. Scientific discoveries are scientific because they do not depend on belief. I don't have a response for your subject-line question.
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Bluerthanblue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #49
65. what a myopic statement-
and how incorrect you are.

"Scientific belief is a contradiction in terms."-

SCIENTIFIC DISCOVERIES owe their EXISTENCE to the very much maligned notion of "belief"-

To have a theory, you start with a concept which has no proof- no evidence- and go looking for 'evidence' to lend social power to your belief. When you accumulate enough evidence, you put your 'scientific 'laws' out into society as "infallible"- sometimes they later prove less than "iron-clad". But until then they are what much of today's modern 'man' will hold as "gospel".

My late father was a true- rocket scientist- phd and all and was much respected by his colleagues- He wasn't a religious fanatic, but a rather humble man, who said
"we think we know so much, but what we have yet to learn will make this time in history look like the kindergarten class".

There is much that has not been understood, discovered, or "proven" YET- That doesn't mean it does NOT exist- or that it isn't true- It only means that we haven't 'arrived' yet.

I personally don't care for mc cain as a politician, and don't much 'like' anything about him- but his statement is one I've heard, and do not feel threatened by, or appalled about. To say that there are things we witness and cannot truly comprehend by 'concrete' standards is not a threat to me- or to my 'understandings'.

peace,
blu
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 11:38 AM
Response to Reply #65
70. Let's be clear on our terms.
Much disinformation occurs by using words for something other than their real or intended meanings.

"To have a theory, you start with a concept which has no proof- no evidence- and go looking for 'evidence' to lend social power to your belief."

A theory in the scientific sense is an explanatory model based on well documented and repeated observation and evidence. To get to be a 'theory' it has to has considerable evidence behind it. Without evidence it is merely a hypothesis or even a conjecture. To verify a hypothesis one constructs experiments designed to disprove it. If the hypothesis survives the experiment, it is repeated by others. Eventually, it is subjected to peer review. 'Social power' is a meaningless phrase. Scientific theories do not depend on social acceptance except to the extent that they are subjected to critical peer review. Evolution by natural selection is an established fact. We are as sure of that as we are of gravity. Yet a large segment of the U.S. population rejects part or all of it.

Fallibility is a purely behavioral notion. Scientific theories or laws as well established ones are often called are always subject to change if the evidence demonstrates a need to modify or reject the existing theory. Science has never advocated otherwise, though individuals are sometimes so protective of pet ideas that they refuse to consider new evidence. Science is self-correcting even if its individual practitioners might not be.

"'we think we know so much, but what we have yet to learn will make this time in history look like the kindergarten class'"

Perhaps, still science does not claim to know everything. "I don't know," is always acceptable as an answer. I wish priests would admit as much! The fact that we do not know something is not an invitation to fill-in the gaps with religious fantasy. God does not win by default. Modern science follows the evidence and so far no evidence points to anything supernatural. I believe that there is a ceramic tea-pot orbiting the Earth exactly between the Earth and moon. It is too small to see with a telescope, of course, and the odds that any space vehicle would have detected it are remote in the extreme. Prove it is not there. A lack of evidence is never evidence.

I was not commenting on McCain's statement, only one response to it.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #49
74. Okay... Scientific Fact
Is that better? Or Scientific Discoveries. I was talking about religious beliefs, so the word belief was in my head.

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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #74
75. I didn't mean to be pedantic but...
...it is an important distinction. I find a lot of people seem to think that science is based on belief and do not understand the fundamental difference between it and religion.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 10:56 PM
Response to Reply #75
79. I understand.
I know that science is... well... science. Based upon experiment and proof. Religion is based upon faith. Belief is a word most associated with faith, so using it in that other post might have seemed like I was being dismissive of science. I wasn't, I just chose my words badly. :) It's all good!

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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 06:09 PM
Response to Reply #49
77. certainly there is such a thing as scientific belief
just as there is such a thing as non-scientific belief.

This is true in the simple sense that a belief is simply something we hold to be true. The word belief does not necessarily imply an absence of evidence in the same way that, say, faith does. So while it might be true that there is no such thing as scientific faith, there is such a thing as scientific belief.

It is also true in the more conceptual sense that science structures a specific belief system--one that Stephen Jay Gould would say is the only appropriate belief system with respect to the physical world of observable fact, as opposed to a religious belief system which is appropriate for the why or the moral or other questions for which science is not ideal to address.

It's certainly true that scientific "belief" is an entirely different animal than religious "belief" ... scientific belief must reconcile it to observable fact in a way that religious belief need not. I certainly don't take issue with the distinction you're making between what science represents and what religion represents, as they are too often conflated or falsely equated.
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 02:25 PM
Response to Reply #28
76. I totally agree...
...and still shake my head that we (not just DU) still argue as though science and religious faith are mutually contradictory.

In my view, science discovers "how" things work. It does not address the "why" -- at least, not the philosophical "why". Religion, on the other hand, attempts to address the "why" and also to express a moral code.

When you try to treat religion as science, you're in trouble. Also, when you try and treat science as religion (don't even get me started on some of the shenanigans in federal agencies such as NIH, for example), you're also in trouble.

One of my favorite stories that addresses this issue in a way, is a famous exchange between Albert Einstein and Niels Bohr. Einstein was not comfortable with the findings of quantum mechanics, where statistics held sway, and it was said that there was no direct cause and effect as in Newtonian mechanics. Interestingly, it was his own findings that had spurred these findings. What he said was, "God does not play dice with the universe." Niels Bohr responded thus: "Stop telling God what to do!" I always thought it was a perfect illustration of the fallacy: because, if one does believe in an omnipotent being, then why would we quibble with that being's methods? When finding out about science and stuff, would that not just allow us to explore the wonders of God's creation, and marvel and the intricacy and subtlety of it all? And taking the Bible -- or any other religious text -- literally as though it is a science text is just so misguided, on so many levels, that is really is and should be treated as just laughable.

Sorry, got a little long winded there.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-08-07 02:00 PM
Response to Reply #76
80. Long winded? Nah! Beautifully stated, though!
:)
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ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-08-07 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #80
81. Why thank you!
:blush:
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waiting for hope Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:15 AM
Response to Original message
2. I wonder how many
archaeologists, geologists and anthropologists are RW fundies? Or can they be? McCrazy is doing his usual, move to the left, move to the right.....anybody up for some Rocky Horror this morning?
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:17 AM
Response to Original message
3. How can one go to the Grand Canyon and NOT think that?
/rhetorical question
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Deep13 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #3
51. One knows better.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #3
52. I dunno...maybe when you realize that erosion probably had a hell of a lot more to do with it...
...than some invisible cloud-being you might...
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 09:02 AM
Response to Reply #52
54. And why can't my invisible cloud-being not create the mechanism
for that erosion?

And, thank you kindly for denigrating my faith.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #54
58. Does your invisible cloud-being have a degree in liquid dynamics and it's impact upon soil erosion..
..I was denigrating McCain's "faith" not yours...
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
66. One might not believe in gods, for example.
Or one might even not believe that god has a hand. :shrug:
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:18 AM
Response to Original message
4. When I look at the Grand Canyon
I see something that's more than 6,000 years old. It is beautiful.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:23 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. I had no idea God was only 6,000 years old
I also must've missed where McCain said that.
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Jackpine Radical Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:26 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. I just made coffee 10 minutes ago. Would you conclude
on the basis of that information that I'm 10 minutes old?

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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:29 AM
Response to Reply #6
11. Maybe you could circle back to the point at hand and try again. n/t
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #4
31. I think that's what McCain was saying.
Look, I don't like him, and I wouldn't want to embrace him as president. But I don't see how saying he saw the Hand Of God in the Grand Canyon as saying he believed it was proof of Creation 6000 years ago.
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gollygee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #31
38. Since you're less reactionary than the other person who replied
I'll answer you. I wasn't referring to him - I was talking about the people he was defending himself against, or pandering to, or whatever, who believe that the world is 6,000 years old. He had to defend his belief in evolution by invoking the name of God and citing an example where he saw evidence? I think that's very sad.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:08 AM
Response to Reply #38
40. Now that's a good point
We're at the stage in this country that people have to qualify their acceptance of scientific fact.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #38
72. I'm not very reactionary at all.
:) I DO see why you feel disturbed that he felt he needed to invoke God in the political process. It shouldn't matter at all, and it feels false to me as someone who does believe. Having to prove your belief in order to garner some votes is really pitiful. But, the sentiment itself I have absolutely no problem with.
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truebrit71 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #4
60. When I look at the Grand Canyon I see a bloody great big hole in the ground...
...
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
7. that doesn't really strike me as unusual
I know a lot of people who feel similar.
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #7
15. Exactly. I don't know why *this* particular sentiment is being met
with such ridicule.

The guy believes in evolution and God. Good on him.

I believe the same thing.

Now, can we get to the real issue at hand, namely that McCain is a raving lunatic?
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. no doubt. he's definitely a raving lunatic, but
given that most voters and most democrats are probably likely to agree with him here (and given that whoever the dem nominee is almost guaranteed to voice some sort of kindred sentiment), this hardly seems the most productive way of demonstrating that fact. So I guess I don't get it either.

The three folks who didn't raise their hand on believing in evolution, on the other hand :wow:
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Squatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:53 AM
Response to Reply #20
27. There are people on DU who seek to absolutely polarize
groups of people into the extremes of political discourse. The reality is, that most Americans fall somewhere in the middle...we may differ in who we vote for at the polls, but despite our political beliefs, we are really a ideologically homogeneous country.
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Dorian Gray Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #15
32. Exactly, Squatch!
:)
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:26 AM
Response to Original message
8. Yeah, well, I see the hand of God there too
and I also see it in evolution. That's the part that the fundies are blind to.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Too bad even that makes you and I profound idiots here.
Extremists have made it very clear in the last week that no one may see God in nature, evolution, or anything else without being a freeper dumbass.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #13
16. I don't think it's the spirituality but the hypocritical pandering
that people have a problem with re McCain. Someone who has hands as dirty as his are should pretty much run and hide if he sees his Maker anywhere.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #16
18. Not just about McCain
I think he's a pandering pompous jerkwad. But there are threads with polls about evolution and discussions of evolution where even religious people who acknowledge evolution are called idiots for involving God at all. The fringe here does not distinguish between McCain, me, or anyone else who sees God in nature.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:46 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. There are strong opinions on DU, that's true.
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EstimatedProphet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #16
35. Ha! That made me laugh! Thanks!
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:14 AM
Response to Reply #16
43. This is hypocritical pandering
McCain has sold his soul.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #43
67. I can't ever forget this:


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ChazII Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #13
24. If a single post could be nominated for the greatest
page, I'd recommend yours. Thanks for making the point. It is too much to hope it will anyone's opinion.
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siligut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 10:04 AM
Response to Reply #13
61. Sorry
Its just because the freepers are so dumbass about religion and most everything else, they are yucky and we want to be the polar opposite. Gotta stop running away and fight the fight, but I seriously get nauseous just thinking about it, they make my head spin.
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:27 AM
Response to Original message
9. And I'm guessing that hand was waving "Buh-byee" n/t
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:28 AM
Response to Original message
10. conservatives, religious and otherwise, are continually attempting........
to rewrite history, economics and now science; they conveniently leave out the facts and truth.
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:32 AM
Response to Reply #10
14. What, exactly, is your problem with what he said?
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Double T Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #14
30. I assume 'he' is mccain, 'he' has made himself irrelavant...........
I was talking about conservatives in general, referring to the last sentence of the OP's thread.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:31 AM
Response to Original message
12. Anyone ask him about the popes in the pizza?
Someone stop him before he speaks again.

lol
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blondie58 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
17. I thought that was beautiful
And I feel the same way.

I did a week long river rafting trip down the Grand Canyon some years ago and the trip was like a spiritual retreat. I have been to a lot of wondrous places, but this was awesome. I saw God, not literally, but being in nature it is hard for me to not believe. Of course, I see the wonder in every change of season, every budding leaf, every little bit of life. Our planet is so beautiful and everything was made so well, it is hard to not believe that it wasn't made by a higher being.

Personally, I think that the problem with religion is when people think that you have to follow MAN's rules, not Gods.
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C_U_L8R Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:45 AM
Response to Original message
19. You could also go to the Grand Canyon
for visible proof of a world that predates the Bible.
All depends on what you want to see.
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fishwax Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #19
34. one could, of course, see both
they aren't mutually exclusive, i suppose ...
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Tyler Durden Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
22. I wish the "Hand of God" was a FIST punching McCain in the nose.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:47 AM
Response to Original message
23. Mark Twain on seeing the Grand Canyon.
Don't know if it's really Twain, but I read where he wrote that two men saw the Grand Canyon for the first time, the one dropped to his knees and praised God saying His hand was on the face of the land, the other guy just said, "Well I'll be God Damned"!
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:49 AM
Response to Original message
25. And that hand...
...was giving him the finger.

I don't see god or even Paul Bunyan's footprints in the Grand Canyon. What I do see is the immense sweep of geologic time and the feeling of our fleeting existence. That, and it sure is purty!
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:55 AM
Response to Original message
29. Damn I hate it when you make me defend people like this.
I am in the Smokey mountains right now and I see the hand of God everywhere. Meaning his touch made this a beautiful place. I am sure McCain meant the same thing. Stick to the real issues please.
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Zomby Woof Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:03 AM
Response to Reply #29
36. The Smoky Mountains
...are really the hand of the New Deal. That land was once heavily settled and developed before the Depression, but its popularity with travelers and the need for works programs in rural areas led to its creation as a national park under FDR. Research the history of the park and you'll find that most of the growth is fairly recent, even if the underlying land is ancient. The government drove people from their homes and planted trees and other plant life over what were once settled areas. The beauty is undeniable, but came with a price.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:10 AM
Response to Reply #36
41. Yes it did come at a price
I spoke to a lady yesterday that is 103 and was born & raised in the smokies, they sold their land under the plan When FDR made it a National park in order to save the park from being ruined. Research is not a problem for me and thats just a tidbit of information of what I know since my family is from these parts also.
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TheCowsCameHome Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
33. He should be watching for the RW foot kicking him off the edge.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
37. I liked George Will's response to McCain's comment:
"It was the Colorado River."

George has grown weary of the pandering.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #37
47. I hate George Will. Please don't tell me he got it right
Oh no.

Don
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trotsky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:38 AM
Response to Reply #47
50. Will is perhaps the most pompous arrogant windbag on the right...
but he DOES need to consider himself an intellectual, so he can be counted on to criticize some of the worst god-based pandering.
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:46 AM
Response to Reply #50
53. Excellent summary of Will.
He seems himself as the rights Deep Thinker. Perhaps more than any other rightwing pundit, he needs to be listened to, if for no other reason than to get a considered opinion. I view him as full of ca-ca most of the time.
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Philosoraptor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:08 AM
Response to Original message
39. Satan has his hand up mc cain's ass like a sock puppet.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:12 AM
Response to Original message
42. That's got to be one of the most duplicitous responses I have ever heard in politics
And I've heard a lot of duplicitous shit.
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:14 AM
Response to Original message
44. Right hand or Left hand?
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Blue-Jay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
45. He probably shouldn't stand near the edge while mentioning the "hand of God".
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skamaria Donating Member (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:20 AM
Response to Original message
46. I looked into the Grand Canyon.........
I also saw the hand of God. I believe it was George the Geology God.
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Ino Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
48. Whew! I'm so glad he clarified that!
Heaven forbid anyone should express a belief in gravity or the benefits of aspirin without adding "but I believe in God too."
:sarcasm:
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spoony Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 09:11 AM
Response to Reply #48
56. Heaven forbid they do add it.
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bdamomma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
55. he is losing his mind isn't he???
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Joe Fields Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 09:18 AM
Response to Original message
57. I wonder what else he sees, when he's eating peyote ?
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InvisibleTouch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
59. If he had, it would have reached down and slapped him. n/t
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DemGa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 10:10 AM
Response to Original message
62. Sounds reasonable to me
He's juxtaposing what he knows about science with the feeling he gets from creation. And I don't care one bit for McCain politically.
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ToeBot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 10:14 AM
Response to Original message
63. I see uplifting and downcutting, but I'm not a pandering gimp. n/t
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jollyreaper2112 Donating Member (955 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
64. I have a picture of it
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
68. Anyone who thinks God created the Grand Canyon ...
... has not hiked from the river to the North Rim. Halfway up you realize that Satan created the canyon, God created mules and helecopters. And you wish you had a mule or helecopter.
:rofl:
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Seabiscuit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 11:38 AM
Response to Original message
69. Dear John: What color was the skin on the "hand" that you saw there?
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133724 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 12:18 PM
Response to Original message
71. I thought the Canyon was made by Paul Bunyan draging his ax.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 01:23 PM
Response to Original message
73. does he see the hand of god in tornadoes and droughts?
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon May-07-07 06:12 PM
Response to Original message
78. What does he see looking at the pictures of Greensburg?
:eyes:
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Manifestor_of_Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue May-08-07 04:32 PM
Response to Original message
82. Damn, where are the fingerprints???
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