Guilty until proven innocent....

[WCGreen]

Ah yes, the whole idea that you are innocent until proven guilty is the underlying right that is under attack in Arizona.

That makes it so much easier to grab and hold people, especially economically disadvantage people. It takes money, sometimes lots of money, to prove your innocence in a court of law.

Suspicion will rule. Citizens would probably, from what I gather from the news reports, be able to finger someone, just like in the French Revolution or the Salem Witch Trials.

Say you are having a beef with a neighbor who may or may not look suspiciously like a "Brown" person. Call the police.

And while we are talking about Arizona, proving that you are a natural born citizen just to get on the ballot is another example of guilty until proven innocent.

The defense for this is to say if they are innocent or in compliance then they have nothing to fear.

But the rest of us indeed have something to fear and that is the real possibility that one day you could very well be asked to prove your innocence. The burden of proof is transfered from the state to the individual. At least as the judicial system now works, the state has to make a compelling charge against you in order to search for evidence of a crime in your home. A warrant has to be processed and approved.

But that could all change.

Issues raised by Arizona could very well reverberate across the country.

The state could very well become the bully on the playground chiding you to prove it...

Now show me your papers.

[marshall]

1. The way one talks will also be under suspicion

British or Scottish accent, French, Australian, etc. All are suspect.

[pampango]

5. True, but some accents are more "suspicious" than others.

My wife has been a citizen for 25 years but still has a distinct Filipino accent. When we're out together she often doesn't bring her purse and so has not ID. (She never brings her naturalization papers or her US passport. They are in a filing cabinet for safe keeping.)

I have a sister-in-law from the UK. We joke with her a lot that her British accent is often considered "cool" while my wife's Filipino accent is definitely not. (The hicks in our town: "I can't understand you. Are you speaking English? )

She's been innocently mistaken for Mexican many times. (Most people around here couldn't fine the Philippines on a map. :) ) That's not too surprising, I guess, since the indigenous population of the Americas came here from Asia many thousands of years ago, so there is some DNA connection (in the distant past) between Mexicans and Filipinos. They were even both colonized by Spain, so there is a lot of "Caucasian" DNA mixed in with the "Asian" DNA with Mexicans and Filipinos.

If we visit Arizona (no plans to), we'll have to be sure that she has her "papers" with her. Leaving her purse at home could be the big, big mistake. How times have changed. I can remember wondering how people who lived in countries where you had to have your identity papers and internal passport with you at all times, put up with such restrictions.

[mmonk]

2. Aptly put.

[rustydog]

3. Why do you hate America ;)

;)

[havocmom]

4. considering that no amount of paper-showing appeases the birthers re the President....

yep, no way in hell anyone (disadvantaged or not) could 'prove' anything to any ya-hoo who wanted to play the decider in any given individual case.

It is insane, but hey, it's the AZ legislature and the fact that just about every other governor there is a spineless ding-bat (with profound apologies to DU's favorite dingbat, Robb)

[stray cat]

6. You can be arrested for a crime before you are found innocent or guilty in court

No guilty person is ever arrested - they are only found guilty later in court

The guy who shot the doctor who performed abortion was still technically innocent but do you really think he should not have been arrested?

[WCGreen]

7. But you can't be held unless a compelling reason is given at the

time of your hearing.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

8. You have distilled this down to its scariest elements.

It really brings the whole issue home...

[Odin2005]

9. Yep. Hispanics will be assumed to be non-citizens until proven otherwise.

:grr:

[Karenina]

10. NOT just "hispanics," Odin.

Americans are notoriously BAD at identifying "the OTHER." The dominant group has NO REASON to distinguish anything other than their often faulty perception of NOT WHITE. After the WTC, many went downtown to help. An untold story was how MANY of these US born and bred patriots were hassled by WHITE NYPD because THEY perceived anyone with darker skin to be a MOOSLIM BOGEYMAN. It was DISGUSTING. It was also NO SURPRISE.

[WCGreen]

11. kick

[fortyfeetunder]

12. I think I will brush up on my Spanish before the next AZ visit

Let's see how they process me :evilgrin: