DU Lawyers: What is "probable cause" in relation to the AZ law?

[Ratty]

What could legally be a reason for a cop to demand somebody's birth certificate or citizenship papers and then haul them down to the station if they aren't carrying them? What else could there possibly be, aside from race, that would rise to the level of probable cause? Do anonymous complaints qualify? If they are working someplace that has a history of hiring illegal immigrants? This is a serious question.

[rustydog]

1. I'd hate to be Hispanic and eating at a taco wagon in arizona

That is for sure

[gratuitous]

2. It kinda doesn't matter

Because a clause in the new law enables any citizen who thinks his or her constabulary isn't being zealous enough in enforcing the law to bring suit. So cities and counties will have a choice: Fight the suit and spend millions; or give in to the most xenophobic, punitive nitwits to be found in the jurisdiction.

Nice, huh?

[napi21]

3. The law to take effect in August. By then it will be declared

unconstitutional. I'm sure of it.

[pinto]

5. One would hope. No lawyer here, but sure seems unconstitutionally broad.

And there was time to develop a suit / legal strategy before the signing.

:thumbsdown:

[treestar]

12. The Terry v. Ohio case

has this reasonable stop and pat-down exception. Terry looked like he was casing a joint to an experienced police officer. There's a whole line of cases on that.

It would seem like that. But all I can think of requires at least some form of racism. I can make guesses on who is an illegal alien, but don't arrest them for it, how will the cops be able to legally justify the same conclusion?

[pinto]

18. And if vaguely written, it ironically places law enforcement in the role of interpreting the law,

not enforcing it. A huge slippery slope.

[WeDidIt]

4. I call that one the Birther clause

Because if the law actually goes into effect and Obama travels to Arizona after, I expect an onrush of lawsuits from Birthers suing the state because they did not enforce the law against Obama.

[louis-t]

7. Hmmm, hadn't thought of that.

I'd expect to see a bunch of screaming, birther teabaggers collapsing with grief in the streets cuz the police won't arrest the President of the United States..

[rocktivity]

9. Are "citzens" who "bring suit" because the local constabulary "isn't zealous enough

in enforcing the law" required to prove that they themselves are in the country legally?

:crazy:
rocktivity

[treestar]

11. Makes sense

I hope the lawyer for any defendant brings that up!

[Ratty]

6. I ask because

I was wondering what would keep a group of people from specifically targeting the law's supporters, lodging complaints and forcing the police to check their papers too. Also was wondering what practical changes this bill would effect. Aren't police already empowered to detain on probable cause in regards to immigration status? I know one big change would be the ability to sue law enforcement. Couldn't the law be subverted by filing thousands of nuisance suits because the police won't confirm, say, the citizenship of the white 90 year old grandmother who lives down the street? She has an accent! I think she's French Canadian!

[treestar]

8. I can't think of anything

A guy with a heavy accent who barely speaks English - such as person could have a green card - they could have been the spouse of a US citizen, and spouses of US citizens get green cards.

Someone with a heavy accent from India, or who speaks no English at all, could be just that. A naturalized citizen originally from India goes home to get married and brings the spouse back.

So none of that would be probable cause that the person was illegal - it's just as likely they have a green card.

And what cop is going to go somewhere, say to a restaurant, because I called to report people at the next table speaking in a foreign language? They could all just be legal immigrants or naturalized citizens with legally visiting relatives. It's just as likely as that they are a bunch of illegals.

I wonder if this law will ever really be enforced. Every single case will be appealed all the way to the Supreme Court. There's no way to come up with probable cause. It will only be enforced where there was probable cause for another crime - it'll just be an add on charge where crimes have already been committed.

[IndianaJoe]

14. Ariana Huffington better watch her step in Tucson!

If a foreign accent is enough to give rise to "reasonable suspicion" that a person might be in the country illegally, an awful lot of people are in real trouble!

Or if eating ethnic food is enough to tag you, I guess we all better avoid Taco Bell.

[Odin2005]

10. the Pigs just make shit up and throw you in jail for "disorderly conduct if you don't comply.

[11 Bravo]

13. A nice tan. n/t

[IndianaJoe]

15. Be careful, John Boehner!

That tell-tale brown tinge you always seem to have might give rise to the necessity of an ID check!

[11 Bravo]

16. Perfect! (And welcome to DU.)

[treestar]

17. LOL, good one!