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moblsv Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:28 PM
Original message
wiki error - need help fixing it
In the entry - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_H._Hinderaker - the following section asserts, as a fact, that the killian documents were forgeries

"Hinderaker was one of the first on the blogosphere to point out how the Bush National Guard document that was covered on 60 minutes was indeed a hoax since it was clear that the memo was written on Microsoft word and no typewriter available in 1972 could type a document is such a manner."

I have tried to edit this to convey the uncertainty of the claim but the author refuses to leave it.

Your help is appreciated.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. changed but probabbly will be changed
:(
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greyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:45 PM
Response to Original message
2. If you have sources to back it up, it should be no problem.
Got any?
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moblsv Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 12:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. our discussion
The 60 Minutes statement is incorrectly asserting an allegation as fact. The "proof" that ths document was written in Word is highly suspect. Regardless, even if the allegation were true, it doesn't change the facts of the 60 minutes story. This is a prime example of the effectiveness of the Right Wing echo chamber, attack machine to beat down facts through bully tactics. Please do not continue to propogate suspect allegations as fact.

http://imrl.usu.edu/bush_memo_study/supporting_material... The preceding unsigned comment was added by Criddle3 (talk contribs) 15:02, 28 January 2007 (UTC).

I disagree. The documents were produced in Word by an inexpert user. To those of us who know anything about digital typography, this is completely conclusive. Other people need only read Joseph Newcomer's analysis (<5>, <6>, <7>, <8> and <9>) or Appendix 4 of the Thornburgh-Boccardi report. I'm suprised that anyone takes David Hailey seriously after Newcomer's devasting rebuttals of his strange arguments.
Those documents are forgeries (and it's quite obvious who forged them). Sorry to disillusion you, CWC(talk) 09:02, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
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Pab Sungenis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:00 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I re-re-edited it
to adhere to Wikipedia's "neutral point of view," and offered cites both for the existence of the IBM Composer typewriter (which used proportional fonts) and CBS's apology. That should satisfy the editors.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. I would bet it will be delete anyway
Wiki is not neutral.
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moblsv Donating Member (148 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #4
8. looks good
thanks. I hope it stays.
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TheBaldyMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
6. Strange that a stack of documents that prove Bush ducked service
are ignored because of one piece of paper.
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Warpy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-30-07 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #6
7. Not to mention the testimony of Mrs Knox
that such documents did exist but that she had no recollection of doing the typing.
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wakeme2008 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-31-07 07:44 AM
Response to Original message
9. Some links to IBM and their 1944 typewriter
Hinderaker was one of the first on the blogosphere to allege how the Bush National Guard document included in a '60 Minutes' report might have been a hoax, since the document used proportional fonts which are common on modern word processors but were only available on certain IBM "Composer" models and IBM "Executive" models in 1972. <5> "Embodying the revolutionary IBM spacing principle, the IBM Executive Electric Typewriter represents the most dramatic advance ever made in the typewriter industry." <6> With a little research Hinderaker could have found IBM first proportional spaced typewriter came out in 1944 <7> with the Electromatic Typewriter Model 04.

CBS later apologized for the story, saying that the documents could not be verified.<8>

http://www-03.ibm.com/ibm/history/exhibits/modelb/model...

:)
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