Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What do the Germans know about economics that we don''t know?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:15 PM
Original message
What do the Germans know about economics that we don''t know?
Imagine -- fewer credit cards, workers sitting on the boards of the largest companies, tremendous responsibility for assisting its poorer neighbors and even integrating into its economy a far less developed part of itself, laws that discourage companies from laying off employees during recessions, a close relationship between research scientists and industry, government sharing control of the banks, somewhat protective trade policies and . . . . a strong manufacturing sector in its economy. That's Germany. I don't need to remind you that Germany has no oil and does not like nuclear energy. It is going solar and bio- in addition to importing oil and burning some coal and, yes, doing quite well, thank you.

From American Prospect:

Per-capita income. Measured at ruling exchange rates as of 2008, Germany's per-capita income was $44,600. That was within hailing distance of America's $47,500 -- an impressive performance in itself and all the more so when you realize that the typical German worker put in just 1,432 hours in 2008 versus 1,792 hours for the typical American.

Life expectancy. Germans now live nearly 14 months longer on average than Americans. By contrast, as recently as the early 1980s, life expectancy in the former West Germany trailed the United States by fully 17 months (and, of course, East Germany was even further behind). A nation's life expectancy is a function of several key aspects of national well-being, and as such it is a useful reality check on purely money-based economic rankings. In particular, it tests a nation's ability to provide its citizens with decent health care.

Trade. Germany's trade performance over the longer term has been nothing short of spectacular. From 1998 to 2008 the German current account went from a deficit of $5.9 billion to a surplus of $267.1 billion. The contrast with the United States could hardly be starker: The American current account deficit shot from $233.8 billion in 1998 to $568.8 billion in 2008.

. . . .

Jobs. Even in the case of unemployment -- a yardstick that for most of the two decades since reunification had been a major embarrassment for Berlin officials -- Germany is now doing better than many other nations. As of December 2009, the jobless rate, at 8.1 percent, was well below America's 10 percent.

. . . .

http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=Germanys_economic_engine

And more recently

BERLIN, March 24 (Reuters) - German manufacturing output growth surged ahead in March while service sector activity picked up speed, a survey showed on Wednesday, pointing to a stable footing for recovery in Europe's largest economy.

A flash estimate of the Markit purchasing managers' index (PMI) for the manufacturing sector jumped to 59.6 from 57.2 in February, with activity expanding at its fastest rate since April 2000.

Sub-components tracking output, new orders and foreign demand grew at their quickest pace since the survey began in 1996, suggesting the boost would feed into the wider economy.

"It's not a hiccup -- new orders remain elevated and that suggests we will see ongoing growth in manufacturing and that should help sustain the services sector," said Chris Williamson, chief economist at data compiler Markit.

http://www.forexyard.com/en/news/Manufacturing-surge-boosts-German-economy-in-March-2010-03-24T083004Z

I posted this as a response in another thread but think it deserves its own thread. What could we learn from Germany? I don't know but I think we should ask ourselves that question.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:22 PM
Response to Original message
1. For one thing, Germany & Japan let the US defend them while they used US aid and demand to evolve
industry and R&D.

China and Russia are emerging from a near-death flirtation with nationalization of the means of production and central planning into new business models that are morphing into globally competitive manufacturing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. We should ask them to take on more of the burden of their own defense.

We should remove our troops from Germany and Japan for starts. Let them defend themselves.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
proteus_lives Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
marmar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:57 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I think they'd be quite happy if we did.....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. I'll drink to that! n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Diclotican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
14. JDPriestly
JDPriestly

Wel, then tell it to your elected officals, that its time to get home from Germany, Since Germany today dosen't are any danger to Europe, or to the world peace anymore.. Many germans would be happy to se the end of US military precense in Germany, as not every american soldier have acted recently, you know, the rapings of girls, and in the years before, unruly conduct by US service men in Germany..

On the other side, closing of US bases in Germany would mean that many germans, who have had steady works, and where whole Countys have been depended of the bases would face a long time with hardship, becouse it is not easy to go from one way of paying the bills, to go to another way of paying the bills. And employment in germany is still not that easy.

But, I am pretty sure when I say, that US forces would stay in Germany for as long as I live (and I plan to live a long life), at least the next 40 year or so, wil it be an military presence in Germany who is US... Becouse even when Germany are no danger to world peace anymore, some of the nabours, like Russia is still not that friendly, even tho I doubt they WANTED go to war over most things... And under GWB, they was thinking about relocate bases in germany, to Poland, Romania, Hungary and so on, so I guess, even if they did relocate bases from Germany to the new NATO nations, the main bases, the HQ in Europe would still be in Germany... After all, US have build some impressive bases there - and it is for the most cases friendly with the germans...

Not to say,t hat the whole system of check and balances in the middle of Europe would be made in fix again, and its more than posible that some of Germanys friends would be unsure how to act, if Germany was to rebuild their military forces, as the US was pulling out of germany - many still rembember when the germans was plowing true Europe in Tigers... It is not THAT long since Europe was in flames (70 year since the WW2 started)... And we tend to have a somewhat longer span of our rembering than most in the US...

Diclotican
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
barbiegeek Donating Member (844 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 01:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
27. +100
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SurfingScientist Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #1
10. So here we have ...
... an interesting piece that says:

* labour rights, long term planning, proper manufacturing, training, education, know-how, involvement of the workforce

are superior to

* short-term shareholder decisions, outsourcing, irresponsible actions of global megacorporations.

This is what scores of people on this very forum are advocating every single day, and I thought this article would trigger some discussion on the US economy.

And your first point is that *** Germany is an evil place that abused the US as a cheap world police ***, and that nationalization (not even remotely mentioned in this article, and not a landmark of German economy) is evil, while globalization works?

Jeebus.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
jody Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #10
12. ROFL Have a great day. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SurfingScientist Donating Member (237 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:18 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Did I miss obvious sarcasm in your post ? (n/t).
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #10
21. You are correct. The issue is not our military presence in Germany
although we do spend too much, far too much, on defense. The real issue is that we are not approaching economic issues in a mature way. We should be focusing on empowering workers, more government regulation or even partial ownership of the banks, more investment and saving and fewer credit cards, more worker participation in the government of large companies, a better relationship between academic researchers and business, etc.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
conscious evolution Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Defend them?We are still occupying them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 02:04 PM
Response to Reply #1
28. What Did They Say About NATO?
It was to keep the Germans down, the Russians, out, and the Americans in.

Not that was a bad idea.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
branders seine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:47 PM
Response to Original message
2. they know that a society exists to serve the people who live in it,
not its few wealthiest families.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. my daughter lived in Hamburg for 2 yrs....credit card use is either
not accepted or very limited....lots of things she told me sounded good....her husband works for a shipping company...there is a company doctor in the building when and if needed..

also...the company's US office needed a government bailout...got it.. but had to do monthly reports and was very monitored....gee...a loan with pay back rules...how quaint
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #6
24. Odd. When biking in the Netherlands and northern Germany in the 90s
--had no trouble using credit cards. Pedalling through Bavaria and the Czech Republic was quite different. We were often turned down, which was a problem because I had ordered travelers' checks based on our prior experience in the north.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 02:59 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bottom line, we imposed Roosevelt's Second Bill of Rights on them when we wrote
their Constitution. We did the same for the Japanese and Italians (the Italian Constitution gave women equal rights in 1947).


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jokerman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #7
25. +1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
9. I believe American mean salary is lower than 47,5K, With the
Middle Class losing ground income wise, I am sure I saw
a much lower mean salary for the Current American citizen.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OHdem10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 03:11 PM
Response to Original message
11. The difference between a Republic and Social Democracy.
Social Democracy places a higher value on equality.
Republic(U.S.) places higher value on Liberty.(Particularly,
financial liberty.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Mudoria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #11
18. I doubt the Turks in Germany would agree with that equality thing.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Festivito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 07:13 PM
Response to Original message
15. Take the EXTRA 10% we spend on health care off and .. viola!
We should be spending about 6% on health care (to cover everyone for everything) rather than the 16% we do spend (not covering ...) out of our GDP.

That 10% of GDP health care denial insurance industry has US looking like we're over them, better than them -- we're not.

Start talking about other things we overpay, especially military, and we look like underpaid dweebs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 07:14 PM
Response to Original message
16. STRONG UNIONS! w/ co-determination (mit bestimmung), which
provides workers seats on boards

and gives them political and economic power
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MattBaggins Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-05-10 07:42 PM
Response to Original message
17. My wife is a German citizen and after each of our girls births
she made sure to register them as dual-citizenship the first trips we made after their births.

I am fluent in German and could go with her there anytime I wanted, yet I stay here. Why am I such an idiot?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 12:22 AM
Response to Original message
20. Kicking for exposure.
Why can't threads that matter catch on more often?
:kick:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Cessna Invesco Palin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 12:53 AM
Response to Original message
22. Eastern Germany is still a shithole.
They use cheap labor from the east to reduce their costs.

They also figured out at some point that making luxury products for export was a good business to be in, then did it better than anyone else.

They pay for almost none of their own defense (we do that for them.)

The rate of home ownership is extremely low compared to the US, so there was no housing bubble to burst.

People don't have the same profligate expenditures and delusions of entitlement that Americans have.

The list goes on...

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KillCapitalism Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 03:43 AM
Response to Original message
23. They realize Democratic Socialism actually works.
Also, there aren't hordes of mindless tea partiers over there + no Sarah Palin to throw wrenches into things.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SocialistLez Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Apr-06-10 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Cookie for you! nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 07:16 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC