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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:25 PM
Original message
"Is a Biometric Identify Card the Key to Immigration Reform?"
http://news.yahoo.com/s/time/20100330/us_time/08599197492700

By KATY STEINMETZ / WASHINGTON – Tue Mar 30, 10:25 am ET

Could a national identity card help resolve the heated immigration-reform divide?

Two Senators, New York Democrat Chuck Schumer and South Carolina Republican Lindsey Graham, certainly seem to think so. They recently presented an immigration-bill blueprint to President Barack Obama that includes a proposal to issue a biometric ID card - one that would contain physical data such as fingerprints or retinal scans - to all working Americans. The "enhanced Social Security card" is being touted as a way to curb illegal immigration by giving employers the power to quickly and accurately determine who is eligible to work. "If you say can't get a job when they come here, you'll stop it," Schumer told the Wall Street Journal. Proponents also hope legal hiring will be easier for employers if there's a single go-to document instead of the 26 that new employees can currently use to show they're authorized to work........Michael Cherry, president of identification-technology company Cherry Biometrics, says the accuracy of such large-scale biometric measuring hasn't been proved. "What study have we done?" he says. "We just have a few assumptions."

Schumer estimates that employers would have to pay up to $800 for card-reading machines, and many point out that compliance could prove burdensome for many small-to-medium-size businesses. In a similar program run by the Department of Homeland Security, in which 1.4 million transportation workers have been issued biometric credentials, applicants each pay $132.50 to help cover the costs of the initiative, which so far run in the hundreds of millions. "This is sort of like the worst combination of the DMV and the TSA," says Chris Calabrese, legislative counsel for the ACLU, an organization that has traditionally opposed all forms of national ID. "It's going to be enormously costly no matter what."

Another potential issue is whether the card will result in people being wrongfully denied work. The average person isn't equipped to determine whether two fingerprints are a match - even FBI fingerprint experts have their off days, as when they incorrectly implicated a Portland, Ore., attorney in the 2004 bombings in Madrid - which means employers would be relying on an automated system. And that, as well as the fingerprinting process itself, invariably leads to some small number of mistakes. ....In testimony given at a Senate immigration hearing in July 2009, Illinois Representative Luis V. Gutierrez, who has led the drive for immigration reform in the House, pointed out that an error rate of just 1% would mean that more than 1.5 million people - roughly the population of Philadelphia - would be wrongly deemed ineligible for work.

....Lillie Coney, associate director of the Electronic Privacy Information Center, believes that keeping biometric information out of a centralized database is "the biggest challenge." Otherwise, she says, the prospect of having millions of fingerprints on hand would be too tempting for the government not to abuse. In their op-ed, the Senators said the information would be stored only on the card. Although the card is being presented as existing solely for determining employment eligibility, "it will be almost impossible to say that this wealth of information is there, but you can only use it for this purpose," Coney says. "Privacy is pretty much hinged on the notion that if you collect data for one purpose, you can't use it for another." Calabrese expresses worries that this ID will become a "central identity document" that one will need in order to travel, vote or perhaps own a gun, which Melmed calls "mission creep."....


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The Northerner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:27 PM
Response to Original message
1. What are those guys thinking?
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walldude Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. You know.. when the guy who stands to profit most from this
Edited on Tue Mar-30-10 02:31 PM by walldude
is saying shit like "the accuracy of such large-scale biometric measuring hasn't been proved. "What study have we done?" he says. "We just have a few assumptions." then you might want to re-think your proposal.

On edit: Oh and this is all we need, more ammunition for the tea partiers. They are already screaming about implanted ID chips..
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Exactly.
Of all people, he should be praising the system. ;)
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anarch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. ID card? Hell, a person could lose that.
Clearly the only reasonable answer is a microchip in the neck. That way we can even track the proles from space, and keep everyone under control.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
5. Comprehensive Immigration "Reform" = Cheap labor AND increased surveillance.
Corporations FTW!

:puke:
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. That's about right.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. Immigration reform (which comes up every administration, if you haven't noticed) always involves this discussion of ID cards. I wonder if, when they get the ID card to monitor us all, they will cease to bring up immigration reform.
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Hello_Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #8
10. ID cards AND the all-important "guest worker program"
Can't just figure out how to legalize the folks here and unify families. Nope, gotta make sure there's an endless stream of desperately poor and malleable uh hardworking and yearning for the Amurkin Dream slaves uh guest workers for Big Bidness.

They'll cease to bring up immigration "reform" when Americans are finally willing to do the "jobs that Americans won't do" for a dollar a day.
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Johonny Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 05:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. sounds like it
"If you say can't get a job when they come here, you'll stop it"

What prevents people from hiring them for cheap under the table... nothing. However you as an honest American have to carry even more ID to prove you're an honest American. It's silly. They already have safe guards to protect against hiring illegal workers, but they don't bother to enforce them. Will more non-enforced yet vastly more costly and intrusive systems help?

I'll need this ID to keep MY job, yet Mitt Romney will still be able to hire illegal immigrants to mow his lawn. Great.
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Newest Reality Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. No, we don't need this!
Immigration is a wedge for the effort, to me. Resistance to this is good and counterpoints are useful.

We have to be tagged to prove we are citizens in order to prevent illegal immigrants from coming here to provide cheap labor for businesses that hire them?

Didn't I read that India is doing a massive, biometric ID system?
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Bioimetrics belong in a centralized data base
Actually, there is one. The FBI's.

When an employer does a serious background check on someone being hired for a responsible job, that is where they go.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 03:13 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. It's not about a "serious" background check, unfortunately.
It's about ascertaining legal status and there's no certainty that it will work even for that.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #9
15. Why wouldn't sending new employee's fingerprints to the FBI work?
They should either be on file, or a further examination of documentation would be in order.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 07:23 PM
Response to Reply #15
25. Most people's prints are not on file with the FBI
It only works if you're trying to weed out criminals, not illegal workers.
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brooklynite Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 03:17 PM
Response to Original message
11. This is just a guess...
...but if you're willing to pay workers off the books (housekeepers, day laborers, migrant workers), I'm guessing you won't be worried whether or not they have a biometric card.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 09:25 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Exactly why this stuff never works
Employers who want to hire illegal workers are already inclined to break that law, why would they suddenly respect this one?

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Spike89 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 03:21 PM
Response to Original message
12. Biometrics are not that secure
Of course, it depends on what data the biometrics consist of. The real problem is that people think biometrics are some un-hackable super security thing--they are not. The common misconception is that it is impossible to "hack" your fingerprints, thus fingerprint ID is secure. The thing is, you don't need to change your fingerprints to hack the system, just change the picture of your fingerprints, or the data that surrounds the fingerprint bitmap. People forget that the computer isn't checking your actual prints against some nebulous "true" version of your prints, it is simply comparing the current bitmap photo to the stored photo it has. Hackers can steal that bitmap photo and they now have your biometric password.

The part that makes this a bad idea is that once my fingerprint bitmap gets stolen, my actual fingerprints are useless to me in proving much of anything. When a password gets compromised, I can create a new one. If my fingerprint pattern gets stolen, I'm out of luck as long as fingerprints are considered valid ID signifiers.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 03:31 PM
Response to Original message
13. "having millions of fingerprints on hand would be too tempting for the government not to abuse."
Any doubts about that?
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Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. Any doubt that's actually the actual ulterior motive?
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. No doubt at all in my mind, no.
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Nikki Stone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 08:11 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Nope
:(
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
16. The government has millions of fingerprints on hand (actually on many hands ;-)
Anyone who's ever had a security clearance, anyone who's ever been arrested, veterans, etc.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. Oh, then it's ok
No, it's not. That's not the only potential for abuse with this. It's just an example.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. What is this abuse of which you speak?
Currently, I now have multiple ID cards and ways of establishing my identity, many of them inconvenient and some are subject to abuse because they are badly designed (e.g. mag strip credit cards, which can easily be cloned by a waiter in a restaurant).

Having only one, really well designed and secure identity card would be much better.

Prefereably in the form of a card with a cryptographically signed biometric, a private key in a tamper-resistant chip for establishing identity and key agreement electronically, and backed by central storage of multiple biometric identifiers and credentials that I can control the use of.

I already need to establish my identity when traveling, voting, making a purchase with credit or debit, etc.

The notion that civil rights can be protected by anonymity is invalid. It is similar to the fallacious use of "security by obscurity" in IT. The protection of civil rights comes through strong laws and just courts.
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 04:47 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. I foresee the day of GPS chips in them
Sorry, I just have not seen much in recent years to indicate our government will not overreach if given the opportunity. Perhaps I'm overreacting but I really won't even use my player's club cards in casinos.
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FarCenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 05:01 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. A GPS device can be put in a RF shielded pouch
Edited on Tue Mar-30-10 05:05 PM by FarCenter
It will not receive the satellite signals needed for geolocation.

http://www.ramayes.com/RF_Shielded_Pouch.htm for a selection of pouches.

(If you are really privacy conscious, you might want one of these for your cell phone and other devices)

((Depending on what NHTSA finds, Toyota drivers may want one big enough for their car!))
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laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Thanks. I am concerned about it. nt
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Morning Dew Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 05:18 PM
Response to Original message
23. Given my druthers, far preferable to biometric IDs
would be a return to the days where one could disappear and take a new name and reinvent him/herself.


I mean, if those were the two choices, I'd skip the biometrics.
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amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-30-10 08:35 PM
Response to Original message
27. 'No' is the answer; K and R
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