The Latest MSM Talking Point - HCR Was A Republican Idea, Thus Giving The GOP Political Cover

[TomCADem]

The media is suddenly being flooded with this new talking point that the HCR bill is actually filled with Republican ideas. Likewise, we are suddenly hearing that the bill is actually similar to "Romneycare" even though the Massachusetts legislature was controlled by a Democratic supermajority! Yet, we call Massachusett's program "Romneycare."

Worse, where were these stories when the corporate media and the GOP were raking Democrats over the coals for their lack of bi-partisanship and "gimmicks" in passing HCR? Such stories were nowhere to be found. However, now that HCR was passed without a single Republican vote, the mainstream media is now doing its best to give Republicans political cover for their rock solid opposition to its passage by giving Republicans credit for various features.

Sadly, many "Democrats" are happily repeating these talking points, including characterizing Massachusetts health care system as "Romneycare" even though it was adopted with a Democratic supermajority controlling the Massachusetts State Legislature.

The bottomline is that HCR was adopted without a single Republican vote with Republicans complaining about the lack of Republican input in the process and the lack of Republican ideas in the bill. If there were Republican ideas in the bill, you would think that the media would have brought this fact up prior to the bill's passage when Republicans were complaining about how one-sided the bill was.

[SpiralHawk]

1. Not one Republicon voted for America

They were in lockstep, voting to bring America down to defeat.

No amount of lying will cover up how the chickenhawk republicons FAILed once again. As usual.

[Oregone]

2. National Health Insurance Partnership Act

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/5566061

[Fumesucker]

3. I did not know that Single Payer and the Public Option are Republican ideas..

Those two ideas certainly didn't make it into the bill.

[msongs]

5. they sure as hell aren't obama/dems in congress ideas nt

[TomCADem]

11. Myth 1 - Mass HCR Was Republican; Myth 2 - HCR Proposed Under Nixon Was His Idea

As discussed in the OP, the Massachusetts Legislature is controlled by a Democratic supermajority. Mitt Romney just happened to be Governor, and he signed the bill that he is now trying to distance himself from. Yet, Democrats do not credit. We call that bill "Romneycare."

With respect Myth 2, as Ted Kennedy himself discusses in a story I link below, Ted Kennedy was the person pushing HCR under Nixon. Nixon was merely signing the bill. Ted Kennedy was the person who was doing the leg work, yet for some reason Ted gets none of the credit. Instead, we call that bill "Nixoncare."

[Fumesucker]

12. Myth 3 - We ever had a chance of getting a public option..

[TomCADem]

13. Well, With Nelson, Lieberman, Lincoln, Etc., You Are Right...

This is why we need to work hard to elect progressive members of Congress, rather than folks like Nelson who are DINOs.

[Fumesucker]

16. You left out Obama..

[TomCADem]

17. Yes I Did, Because He Supported A Public Option

The Public Option would have been dead long ago if President Obama had not been talking it up in the summer of 2009.

[Fumesucker]

25. No, he *said* he supported a Public Option..

He also said he would support a filibuster of FISA and telecom immunity.

I think we all know how that ended up.

[TomCADem]

26. Interesting, This Thread Has Nothing To Do With Those Other Topics...

I guess your point is just to slam on a Democratic president, then? Are you going to perhaps dust off Reverand Wright?

I am not sure what your point is now, except that you think that the President is dishonest. Am I right? Are you sure you are on the right board? Free Republic is filled with folks who also believe that the President lies every time he opens his mouth.

[Fumesucker]

28. It's called "thread drift" and it's quite common in virtually all online discussions..

In fact I've already been informed more than once here on DU that to expect any politician to do as they say they're going to do is naive, most recently in discussions regarding Dennis Kucinich and his abandonment of his position on the Public Option.

And if you think that posters on the Frei Republik are bitching because they didn't get a Public Option or Single Payer then you are even more deluded than they are.

[TransitJohn]

30. Yeah, with this Administration, it was a myth.

We got the HCR the POTUS wanted.

[Oregone]

20. About you contributing mandated & subsidized private insurance to Kennedy....

Can you admit this is a mistake or a lie yet? Donmt let people believe this information. Kennedy is a good man and this is a smear to his name and his legislative career (intentional or not)

He pushed single-payer, then payroll tax funded insurance policies. Not this shit.

[TomCADem]

23. Here Is Ted Kennedy In His Own Words...

Here is Ted Kennedy himself in an article that he wrote in support of President Obama's HCR effort:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/207406/page/2

For the next generation, no one ventured to tread where T.R. and Truman fell short. But in the early 1960s, a new young president was determined to take a first step—to free the elderly from the threat of medical poverty. John Kennedy called Medicare "one of the most important measures I have advocated." He understood the pain of injury and illness: as a senator, he had almost died after surgery to repair a back injury sustained during World War II, an injury that would plague him all of his life. I was in college as he recuperated and learned to walk without crutches at my parents' winter home in Florida. I visited often, and we spent afternoons painting landscapes and seascapes. (It was a competition: at dinner after we finished, we would ask family members to decide whose painting was better.) I saw how the pain would periodically hit him as we were painting; he'd have to put down his brush for a while. And I saw, too, how hard he fought as president to pass Medicare. It was a battle he didn't have the opportunity to finish. But I was in the Senate to vote for the Medicare bill before Lyndon Johnson signed it into law—with Harry Truman at his side. In the Senate, I viewed Medicare as a great achievement, but only a beginning. In 1966, I visited the Columbia Point Neighborhood Health Center in Boston; it was a pilot project providing health services to low-income families in the two-floor office of an apartment building. I saw mothers in rocking chairs, tending their children in a warm and welcoming setting. They told me this was the first time they could get basic care without spending hours on public transportation and in hospital waiting rooms. I authored legislation, which passed a few months later, establishing the network of community health centers that are all around America today.

Some years later, I decided the time was right to renew the quest for universal and affordable coverage. When I first introduced the bill in 1970, I didn't expect an easy victory (although I never suspected that it would take this long). I eventually came to believe that we'd have to give up on the ideal of a government-run, single-payer system if we wanted to get universal care. Some of my allies called me a sellout because I was willing to compromise. Even so, we almost had a plan that President Richard Nixon was willing to sign in 1974—but that chance was lost as the Watergate storm swept Washington and the country, and swept Nixon out of the White House. I tried to negotiate an agreement with President Carter but became frustrated when he decided that he'd rather take a piecemeal approach. I ran against Carter, a sitting president from my own party, in large part because of this disagreement. Health reform became central to my 1980 presidential campaign: I argued then that the issue wasn't just coverage but also out-of-control costs that would ultimately break both family and federal budgets, and increasingly burden the national economy. I even predicted, optimistically, that the business community, largely opposed to reform, would come around to supporting it.

That didn't happen as soon as I thought it would. When Bill Clinton returned to the issue in the first years of his presidency, I fought the battle in Congress. We lost to a virtually united front of corporations, insurance companies, and other interest groups. The Clinton proposal never even came to a vote. But we didn't just walk away and do nothing—even though Republicans were again in control of Congress. We returned to a step-by-step approach. With Sen. Nancy Landon Kassebaum of Kansas, the daughter of the 1936 Republican presidential nominee, I crafted a law to make health insurance more portable for those who change or lose jobs. It didn't do enough to fully guarantee that, but we made progress. I worked with my friend Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the Republican chair of our committee, to enact CHIP, the Children's Health Insurance Program; today it covers more than 7 million children from low-income families, although too many of them could soon lose coverage as impoverished state governments cut their contributions.

[Oregone]

34. Yes, and he doesn't say he wanted to force people to buy insurance. He opposed the notion on record

He had a plan to progressively fund insurance (even private in the Mills compromise) with a payroll tax.

Your distortion is an insult to all the great work he did for the people. I'm appalled.

When people are referring to this as RomneyCare/NixonCare, they are drawing a parelell to the NHIPA, which Kennedy fought against. You are coming out of bizzaro land with this. Regarding the NHIPA, he said the plan was "a partnership between the administration and the private health insurance industry. For the private industry, the administration plan offers a windfall of billions of dollars annually. The windfall is not entirely a surplus, since elements of Administration's proposal appear to have originated in the insurance industry itself"

You are so confused, but thats not the problem. The problem is your distortion is an insult to a great Democratic leader.

Can't you understand his plan had nothing to do with mandating private market commerce in this manner?

Im disturbed at the lengths you are going to diminish this man's good name.

[TomCADem]

37. Massachusetts Has A Democratic Supermajority In Its Legislature...

Why exactly are you calling Massachusetts Healthcare plan Romneycare? As for insulting a great Democratic leader, please drop the fake teabagger outrage. Just because a direct quote from Ted Kennedy himself does not support your opinion, does not mean you should resort to faux outrage.

[Oregone]

40. I don't care about Mass for the moment--I'm talking about your outlandish distortion

Kennedy did not favor Nixon's NHIPA. He settled ultimately for the Kennedy-Mills compromise bill (a progressive bill which worked in the budgetary confines of the Nixon plan and provided payroll tax funded insurance based on the ability to pay).

From the article I posted earlier:

One approach to national health insurance was reflected in the Nixon Administration bill, which called for one price premium payments by all but very low income families as the most equitable way to finance health care. These premiums would be paid to private insurance companies.

A second approach found in the Kennedy-Mills and Corman-Kennedy called for a government administered program financed by a payroll tax so that costs would be distributed on the basis of ability to pay

Your quote is meaningless. You are trying to say it means Kennedy supported this model, but HIS plan was not similar. Nixon's was.

[TomCADem]

43. What? In Post #34, YOU raised Massachusetts Healthcare Plan!

What's with moving the goal posts. If you think Massachusetts health care plan is not necessarily relevant, why did you throw in the gratuitious slam about "Romneycare," which just feads into the MSM talking points that President Obama adopted a Repubublican plan when not a single Republican voted for it. You raised it, now you want to drop it when it when the facts are that Massachusetts had Democratic supermajority! So, called "Romneycare" never sees the light of day without the strong support of Democrats. Indeed, I would say that Romney was just along for the ride.

Conversely, what you are not addressing is the willingness of Ted Kennedy to compromise in order to get things done. You hail Ted's support of single payer, yet you ignore that Ted HIMSELF has stated that he was willing to compromise on this in order to pass HCR. Is this a slam on Ted? Absolutely not! I think the fact that Ted was liberal, but was able to get things done is what made him great.

Likewise, some "liberals" attack President Obama for not taking a hardline on a public option. Yet, would Ted Kennedy have taken such a hardline? I think Ted himself said that he wouldn't. That is the point I have tried to make, yet no one addresses this head on. Instead, you talk about what Ted wanted (single payer), and not what Ted was willing to compromise on.

[Oregone]

44. Do you understand there were two different plans (at least) in the 70s reform movement?

Explain to me what Kennedy supported, very slowly, and how this relates to the current plan (since you are crediting mandates to him).

Now explain to me what the Nixon plan was.

Do you believe they were one in the same?

Where did the mandated private market purchases originate from? What party? Who favored them? Who oppossed them? Who should get credit? Lets take this full circle, real slow, and stop with the cross talk.

[TomCADem]

45. See Post #43, Never Said That Ted Kennedy Was Supporter Of Individual Mandates

Try again. Ted supported single payer. But he was willing to compromise. He said so himself.

[Oregone]

48. "Nixoncare? Try Ted Kennedy-care, Which Should Have Passed"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=4322732&mesg_id=4322849

It seems that in a discussion about mandates, in which they are credited to Nixon, you are attempting to instead give credit to Kennedy for them.

Why? Why should he get credit for the mandated private market purchases. What specifically about his plans resembles this, moreso than Nixon's plan?


"Ted supported single payer. But he was willing to compromise. He said so himself."

Yes, and his version of a compromise at that time was the Kennedy-Mills compromise bill. It did not contain a mandate to purchase insurance from the private market. It was a payroll tax funded, government administrated system that utilized private providers and costs the exact same as Nixon's plan (that was the compromise).

So......why are you attributing these mandates to him? Its beyond me?

Can't you just admit you made a mistake?

[HillbillyBob]

22. No the 'mandate' that we buy insurance from privateers

is the puke idea..or the main one..a la Romney care and heritage foundation came up with forcing us to buy from for profit companies years ago.
I don't know about the rest I have not read through it yet.

[TomCADem]

46. "Romney Care" Was Approved By A Democratic Supermajority Over Numerous Romney Vetoes...

Yet, we call Massachusetts Health Care plan Romneycare?

[louis-t]

4. That's OK. They show who they are now that

they're against it. Will they really run against their "own ideas" in the fall?

[Oregone]

7. "Will they really run against their "own ideas" in the fall?"

Why not? They get the best of both worlds. Their old rejected ideas become law and they bear no responsibility

[TomCADem]

8. The Other MSM Talking Point Is Giving Nixon Credit For Ted Kennedy's Bill - Nixoncare

Once again, why are we rushing to give Republicans credit? Shouldn't Ted Kennedy get credit for "Nixoncare"? Nixon just happened to be President, and he was willing to compromise on HCR. Here is Ted Kennedy himself on "Nixoncare":

http://www.newsweek.com/id/207406/page/2

For the next generation, no one ventured to tread where T.R. and Truman fell short. But in the early 1960s, a new young president was determined to take a first step—to free the elderly from the threat of medical poverty. John Kennedy called Medicare "one of the most important measures I have advocated." He understood the pain of injury and illness: as a senator, he had almost died after surgery to repair a back injury sustained during World War II, an injury that would plague him all of his life. I was in college as he recuperated and learned to walk without crutches at my parents' winter home in Florida. I visited often, and we spent afternoons painting landscapes and seascapes. (It was a competition: at dinner after we finished, we would ask family members to decide whose painting was better.) I saw how the pain would periodically hit him as we were painting; he'd have to put down his brush for a while. And I saw, too, how hard he fought as president to pass Medicare. It was a battle he didn't have the opportunity to finish. But I was in the Senate to vote for the Medicare bill before Lyndon Johnson signed it into law—with Harry Truman at his side. In the Senate, I viewed Medicare as a great achievement, but only a beginning. In 1966, I visited the Columbia Point Neighborhood Health Center in Boston; it was a pilot project providing health services to low-income families in the two-floor office of an apartment building. I saw mothers in rocking chairs, tending their children in a warm and welcoming setting. They told me this was the first time they could get basic care without spending hours on public transportation and in hospital waiting rooms. I authored legislation, which passed a few months later, establishing the network of community health centers that are all around America today.

Some years later, I decided the time was right to renew the quest for universal and affordable coverage. When I first introduced the bill in 1970, I didn't expect an easy victory (although I never suspected that it would take this long). I eventually came to believe that we'd have to give up on the ideal of a government-run, single-payer system if we wanted to get universal care. Some of my allies called me a sellout because I was willing to compromise. Even so, we almost had a plan that President Richard Nixon was willing to sign in 1974—but that chance was lost as the Watergate storm swept Washington and the country, and swept Nixon out of the White House. I tried to negotiate an agreement with President Carter but became frustrated when he decided that he'd rather take a piecemeal approach. I ran against Carter, a sitting president from my own party, in large part because of this disagreement. Health reform became central to my 1980 presidential campaign: I argued then that the issue wasn't just coverage but also out-of-control costs that would ultimately break both family and federal budgets, and increasingly burden the national economy. I even predicted, optimistically, that the business community, largely opposed to reform, would come around to supporting it.

That didn't happen as soon as I thought it would. When Bill Clinton returned to the issue in the first years of his presidency, I fought the battle in Congress. We lost to a virtually united front of corporations, insurance companies, and other interest groups. The Clinton proposal never even came to a vote. But we didn't just walk away and do nothing—even though Republicans were again in control of Congress. We returned to a step-by-step approach. With Sen. Nancy Landon Kassebaum of Kansas, the daughter of the 1936 Republican presidential nominee, I crafted a law to make health insurance more portable for those who change or lose jobs. It didn't do enough to fully guarantee that, but we made progress. I worked with my friend Sen. Orrin Hatch of Utah, the Republican chair of our committee, to enact CHIP, the Children's Health Insurance Program; today it covers more than 7 million children from low-income families, although too many of them could soon lose coverage as impoverished state governments cut their contributions.

Why are we so eager to give Republicans credit for a bill that had Ted Kennedy's name all over it?

[Oregone]

15. Nixon's NHIPA WAS NOT Kennedy's Kennedy-Mills Bill

But you don't understand that.

NHIPA was mandated & subsidized private insuracne policies. Kenendy and the Democrats rejected it for payroll tax funded insurance policies for all, with progressive contribution amounts based on income (not flat premiums)

"NixonCare" is not a reference to Kennedy's plan. This fabrication is built on a massive misunderstanding

[TomCADem]

29. HuffPo - "The distance between Kennedy and Nixon then was so small ..."

I think you are putting to much emphasis on Ted Kennedy's original proposal, rather than the proposals that Ted Kennedy came closest to getting passed even after the resignation of Nixon. Thus, is it really accurate to call the proposal Nixoncare, since Nixon was not even around as it moved through committee?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/26/when-kennedy-nearly-achie_n_269935.html#page_url---http%253A//www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/08/26/when-kennedy-nearly-achie_n_269935.html*ad_client---pub-3264687723376607*ad_output---js*max_num_ads---3*ad_type---text*feedback---on*ad_channel---8073093451%252CPolitics%252C9299244974%252C7118282503*hints---%2520*hp_dest_id---contextual_ad_unit_1

A legislative tango ensued. Recognizing that single-payer didn't have the votes, the senator set up secret meetings with Congressman Wilbur Mills (D-Ark.), to put together an alternative piece of legislation, one that had the health insurance industry serving as intermediary in a still largely-government-administered system. Once that was accomplished, Kennedy set up another secret meeting, this time with the president and his advisers.

"He wanted to see if they could find a three-way compromise," recalled Stuart Altman, a health care adviser to Nixon, and highly respected expert on the subject. "It was the beginning of what became known as the Kennedy mystique. He clearly is a liberal; he was a liberal; he strongly favored liberal position. But he never let his ideological position cloud him from getting things done that would help people."

But as the main actors grew closer, external forces were pulling them apart. As Altman explained, Health, Education and Welfare Secretary Caspar Weinberger pushed back against many of the concessions that the congressmen were demanding. The American Medical Association decried the Kennedy-Mills bill as "socialist." The National Federation of Independent Business, meanwhile, deemed it "nothing more than a first step towards socialized medicine."

The real pushback, however, came from the labor community. As Watergate cast a shadow over the Nixon presidency, unions began asking why compromise was needed in the first place. "They wanted the insurance industry out," said Altman. "They were convinced that they would win the presidency in 1976 and they just said no. And so, they essentially left Kennedy out to dry. And the same thing with the conservatives. They were flabbergasted that Nixon was willing to go as far as he did."

Even after Nixon resigned, Mills pressed forward. Moving even closer to the then former president's outline, he put legislation to a vote in the House Ways and Means Committee in 1974. It passed by a 13-12 vote -- a historic breakthrough but still a narrow one. The congressman was wary of moving anything to the House floor without a bigger majority.

From this description, it really does look like President Obama passed a HCR package that Ted Kennedy would have happily championed. Yet, we give Nixon credit for the work of Kennedy and Mills.

[Oregone]

33. Kennedy DID NOT want to force people to purchase insurance from the private market.

Thats a fact. Your quote from Huff Post can suck a cock. His plan was a payroll tax funded solution

You are shamefully smearing Kennedy's name. He deserves better than this.

[TomCADem]

35. I Get It, You Know More About Kennedy Then Ted Kennedy Himself...

I have quoted Ted Kennedy himself, as well as an favorable review of Kennedy on Huffington Post that details the timeline of Kennedy's efforts to pass health care reform. Yet, by simply insisting that Ted and HuffPo are wrong, you expect us to believe you. And you say that I am slandering Kennedy when you are the one calling his own words a lie? Ted Kennedy's own words!

Please.

[Oregone]

36. You just don't get it

There were a lot of different plans. Nixon's was NHIPA (mandated and subsidized private insurance), which people parallel to this plan.

Kennedy's was not (his was payroll funded progressively, and dissimilar to this plan). You quoted him out of context to attempt to credit NixonCare to him. Absurd, and ridiculous fabrication that ultimately smears him.

Enough already. Read a little bit about history please

Try:

http://books.google.ca/books?id=rIvM9Tk0mqUC&pg=PA1&dq=elusive+health+care+book+kennedy+nixon&hl=en&ei=BM6uS-yoHIKwswOwmvT6Cw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDkQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=&f=false

Read it. If you aren't embarrassed and disappointed in yourself thereafter, something is seriously wrong with you.

[TomCADem]

39. See Post #29

I think I addressed this point already. You are referring to the initial proposals. Under your logic, President Obama should get full credit for a public option, which he proposed at the outset of the debate.

[Oregone]

41. You haven't addressed anything. In the words of Ricky Gervais...

"You are just talking shit again. Absolute bollocks."

[sabrina 1]

24. Well, they can always say that the best parts of the bill are their

ideas and then attack anything that is good like extending medicaid, which will give them an opportunity to dig up their old 'commie, socialists' scary words.

[kentuck]

6. Right. We appreciate all their votes...

to help push it over the top.

[DFW]

9. I wonder how they will formulate their ad spots?

"Hey, you know all this improvement in health care that Congress enacted? Well I was one
of the ones who originally helped formulate that bill! I was there when you needed me. And
now I ask you to be there when I need your support this November. Sure, I voted against the
bill, as did every one of my Republican colleagues, but, hey at least I was for it before I
was against it, so vote for meeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!"

I'm another Republican tool, and Roger Ailes told me that I approved this message.

[sabrina 1]

10. Mandated Insurance, a transfer of public funds

into private hands, these are the foundation of the current bill and they ARE Republican ideas. This is an effort to manipulate people into not telling the truth. Actually, they were the ideas of Corporate America, and it doesn't matter to them who keeps the flowing to their bank accounts.

And, FYI, the fact that Republicans would claim their ideas again WAS PREDICTED once the bill passed.

Both parties work for Big Business, these little distractions of 'right against left' 'teaparties' and whatever are meant to keep public distracted as the robber barons go about their business of getting their hands on all public funds.

[JohnWxy]

14. The Health Care REform bill passed IS very similar to the Chaffey HCR plan proposed by Republicans

in 1993. I haven't heard anybody in M$M (televised) pointing this out except Democrats.

Why is virtually no one among the M$M talking heads bringing this up? Because it makes it clear the "philosphical differences" the Corporate Lobbyist Party and their M$M echo-chamber keep chanting as the rationalization for Corporate Lobbyist Party opposition to HCR and claims that it is a "socialist takeover" are bullshit. This shows that the CLP opposition was only to hand Obama and Dems a defeat to show how "ineffective" they (too) are.

They insurance exchange, first proposed by Republicans. Individual mandate endorsed by REpublicans in the past. THeir opposition to a bill which incorporates ideas they formerly supported was just to prevent Obama and Democrats from acomplishing something. Pure destructive PUNK politics.


The HCR bill just passed is similar to a Republican proposal from 93

[JustAnotherGen]

19. Glad I kept reading

I made this point on another board a few days ago. Typical - the Republicans at that site chose to go all crickety on me. When you go point by point? It has many of the exact same things Republicans proposed in 1993.

[qazplm]

18. doesnt this help us in Nov?

Seems to me if the media is reporting that this bill is filled with republican ideas, it eviscerates the arguments that are going to be made against Dems in Nov about how we rammed it through and how liberal and radical it is?

Aren't we also pointing out the amendments that were offered and accepted and the fact that this bill is so similar to what the republicans offered Clinton in 93 and what Romney put out in Mass as Gov?

Seems to me, we can't get upset at the media for reporting things in the very same light we are reporting them.

[TomCADem]

21. The Problem Is That Republicans Get A Free Pass On This...

I have yet to see any reporter really get in the face of Republicans when they spout their talking points about how "radical" the plan is, and how it constitutes a "government takeover." Instead, it seems the purpose of these articles is just to sow division and discord among Democrats, because Republicans are not being confronted with their hypocrisy and lies.

[Fumesucker]

27. And that makes it different than the way things have been done for some time now how?

Republicans getting a free pass from the M$M is nothing new at all, if Dems haven't entered that fact into their political calculations by now then they are even dumber than I had hitherto imagined.

[qazplm]

31. not sure how this sows division

to point out what our own president has pointed out on numerous occasions while simultaneously disputing the canard that this is a totally liberal program.

[grahamhgreen]

32. It's the MANDATE to buy PRIVATE crapsurance that was the Repubs idea. Let's be BIPARTIASAN

and get rid of it like they wat to!

Then, we just have good, solid insurance reform!

[Raksha]

38. It's even worse than that.

The pundits at the AEI and other right-wing think tanks were actually ORDERED not to discuss the health care bill in public. I guess the corporations that pull the strings of these think tanks didn't want anyone to notice that it's a very Republican bill similar to Romneycare. They were hoping everyone would be fooled by the orchestrated screams of "Socialism!" And a lot of people (the stupid ones) were fooled--but a lot weren't. Not here at DU anyway.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

42. Why should it matter anyway that the bill has "Republican ideas"?

It had lots of Democratic ideas too. None of the Republicans actually voted for it and now a lot of them want to repeal it (if they somehow get a chance). President Obama and the Democrats passed it- over a rock solid filibuster no less, so whatever good comes from the plan, the credit should go to them NOT the people who tried their darndest to demonize and kill it!

[Naturalist111]

47. Can you spell PATHOLOGICAL?

[depakid]

49. That fact doesn't give them cover- though it does make the Dems look feckless

in the sense that they abandoned their own ideas for responsible reforms, and backstabbed several of their constituencies in the process.

[Oregone]

50. Spot on!

It was a bad idea then and still is. Just just time, the liberal champion it

[area51]

51. Of course it's got republican ideas,

the genesis was from people like Gingrich, who wanted a law to force people to buy private, for-profit unregulated insurance, because his attitude was that people are simply "too lazy" to buy insurance until forced. He must be creaming in his jeans that democrats were stupid enough to enact his plan.

[Rage Inc.]

52. Then why is the GOP running away from it?