Women will die because of the abortion non-funding stipulation. Mark my

[truedelphi]

words, women will die.

A long time ago, in a life I can barely remember, I found out I was pregnant. One thirty in the afternoon.

I was twenty. As I walked home from work, I was somewhat excited, and somewhat scared. The pregnancy was not planned, but I knew my husband would be happy and somehow we would muddle our way through.

By the time I reached the house, I was spotting. By the time J. arrived home, I was bleeding very
heavily.

At 2 Am, I went into convulsions. What to do? I didn't think my parent's insurance covered me, and we didn't have insurance of our own.

We called the Chicago police, who hoisted me on a gurney and took both of us to the local hospital.

The doctor at the ER, probably a mere resident, was terrified of my situation. I was out of it by this time. I remember joking that he looked so very young, and as I was fading out, I heard him telling a nurse, "We cannot admit her. if this was an abortion she performed on herself, I could lose my license and so could the whole hospital."

Long story short - he sent us back home - while I hemorrhaged!

And all we had for that trip was a prescription we couldn't even fill until the time when the drug store opened. Supposedly the medication would stop the bleeding.

Luckily my mom stopped over at the house, something she never did mid-week. She put me in her car and took me to my childhood pediatrician. They worked things out so I was still on the folk's insurance. I was given a D & C as emergency surgery.

My body was so overwhelmed by everything that had happened, it failed to make red blood cells. I was in the hospital for a while, and when I got out I weighed 87 pounds (I am five feet eleven.)

When abortion rights are not a fundamental right, this is what happens. The only difference between what happened to me and what will happen to other twenty somethings is that they may be asked by the hospital to pay for the D & C upfront. If they cannot, too bad.

[cali]

1. I'm sorry that happened to you. It's clear you got substandard medical care

but nothing has changed. The Hyde Amendment already prevented the funding of abortions with public funds.

[Chemisse]

17. Yes, poor women have suffered under this for many years

That is a fight for another day.

[CTyankee]

43. From what she says, tho, it sounds like it was life threatening and that is an exception

to Hyde. If she wasn't making red blood cells she was in serious shape. Hemorraging is NEVER a good sign...

I'm not sticking up for the Hyde Amendment, far from it, but in this case her life was endangered and she needed emergency care pronto...

[iris27]

69. "nothing has changed" -- not true, see #20.

The women who will be covered at least partly under "public funds", and thus affected by Hyde, will now be a MUCH larger number.

It's also quite likely that many plans may just drop abortion coverage altogether rather than deal with the hassle and expense of the extra accounting that will be needed to show that only money direct from their insured and no federal funds paid for that coverage.

[tabatha]

2. Nothing has changed. Nothing.

[riderinthestorm]

61. Obama's language in the Executive Order is so clearly repugnant towards pro-choice women

Sorry but it's a salient point. Perhaps "nothing's changed" but our President has just reiterated some pretty shitty stuff.

I'm replying to you but my post is applicable to everyone who says "nothing's changed". For those of us who are pro-choice, Obama's language in his EO is pretty bad.

He's thrown pro-choice people under the bus. Definitively. Completely. For a win.

You bet it's more of the Hyde Amendment redux, but did he have to go this far? Shit on us this much? It just shows how much disdain he has for progressives IMHO. I don't like it.

[Egnever]

71. I dont get it

He wrote that executive order in order to avoid putting more draconian language into the bills that passed and you are disapointed with him for it.

It's almost like you are looking for reasons to be pissed off regardless of any reality surrounding the situations.

[Name removed]

3. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[babylonsister]

4. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=433x240382

1. Abortion. The negotiations between Congressman Bart Stupak and the White House over the executive order on abortion funding may rank among the most consequential inconsequential disputes in American history. It was important because it now seems likely that health care reform would have failed if Stupak and his allies had not voted for it. But the executive order itself is nearly meaningless as a legal and practical matter. Federal funding of abortion has been illegal under the Hyde Amendment for almost two generations. The health-care reform bill did nothing to disturb that status quo. Anti-abortion forces mobilized against the legislation but without ever establishing that it would affect abortion at all. In short, nothing happened on abortion—and, apparently, that made all the difference.

[Subdivisions]

50. You wouldn't know it visiting some quarters of the Internet today. n/t

[WeekendWarrior]

5. This is a terrible thing that happened to you

but nothing will change because of this bill or because of any executive order regarding federal funding for abortion. Nothing.

[Codeine]

6. Federal funds couldn't be used for abortions before this bill.

It's the same old Hyde Amendment language that was always there, Stupak just needed it spelled out very loudly for political cover.

Besides, your story had more to do with really messed-up care than anything abortion-related -- no physician will lose his or her license for treating someone who has received a botched abortion.

[sabrina 1]

10. After your flippant comment about women above, do you really

think anything you say has credibility?

How do you feel about sick immigrant children? Have any jokes about not allowing them to receive coverage also?

To the 'New' Democrats, women's health is not important. It can be traded away along with that of immigrants, gays and the working poor. Thanks for the demonstration.

[Codeine]

13. Flippant comment?

:shrug: Not sure what you mean. The dingo joke?

[Codeine]

15. I wish abortion was federally funded.

I'm totally pro-choice, but this bill hasn't changed anything. The Hyde Amendment already prevented federal funding of the procedure. Your outrage is misplaced, if entirely predictable.

[Skittles]

39. hasn't changed anything

THAT is what is FUCKED

[harkadog]

20. Untrue.

It not the same language. You have not read the bill that is clear. Now if a insurance company covers abortion the woman will have to write a separate check for the separate coverage. Many companies will not want to go to this bother and just drop it altogether.

[Gormy Cuss]

28. More women will be affected by this because there's a whole new class of Federal funding.

It's not the same -- it's an expansion.

[eridani]

37. Not as of right now. However, what the OP described was the NORM

--when I was in my 20s. Luckily, I didn't have my first miscarriage until after Roe v Wade. With out rights under assault by even some nominal "Democrats," things could easily revert to the way it used to be.

[EFerrari]

7. Yep. Any obstruction to access has consequences for all women

of childbearing age.

[cali]

8. there is no additional obstruction in this legislation.

[karynnj]

9. Awful story - and there were many in the 1960s and early 1070s like it

BUT, this has nothing to do with the Hyde amendment

1) Abortion is legal

2) Your life and health was in jeopardy - so even if you did not opt for a plan that covered abortion, it would be covered.
This was not an elective abortion - this was a dangerous miscarriage.

[EFerrari]

11. Abortion is legal in a lot of places where there is no access.

What difference does it make?

And if your doctor is afraid to treat you because he BELIEVES he is seeing a self-induced abortion, what difference does it make?

Continuing to cave into the far right's demonization of abortion does and will continue to have consequences.

[cali]

14. well for one thing, you'd have a hell of a malpractice case.

and you'd win. wouldn't even make it to court. but you're right, there is far too little access for abortion services. however, the legislation that passed last night, will not change the status quo one iota.

[truedelphi]

21. Can I point out that you cannot have

a malpractice law suit if you end up dead.

[karynnj]

30. Wrong, it would be brought by your estate

[truedelphi]

34. Well, duh! I knew that. But how would I enjoy it?

That was my point. You can't take it with you. If you die at a young age because of the Politics that is inherent (apparently) in our political system, which is even now mostly old white men, who have no concept of any of the minor discomfort, major discomfort, and the one in ten pregnancy chance of having a miscarriage and then perhaps dying because the doctors are scared about licensing procedures and so won't treat you while you miscarry, I just don't know.

Forty years ago, I thought this nation was going to grow up, improve, change, quit with the fake-y wars for profit, quit with the endless unfairness of it all, and QUIT WITH THE DAMN REPRESSION OF WOMEN'S RIGHTS.

But even as we wage war in Afghanistan to "liberate" the women there from their Taliban, we suffer
right here in America from our own Taliban.

[karynnj]

41. ABORTION IS NOT ILLEGAL

You are putting up a strawman that is totally different than the Hyde amendment. There are reasons to ask the Hyde amendment be overturned, but this is not one of them.

[truedelphi]

46. If anything, being of the female persuasion, I am putting up a Straw Woman.

But I do not agree with you.

NO one should have their life threatened because of the fact that in this nation, women must hope that when they miscarry, the doctor on duty is not scared stiff of losing Federal funding, of losing her hospital's accreditation, or losing her own license.

And those considerations are not the only ones. you also have to hope taht when you miscarry, you are not treated by some religious nut.

[Nikki Stone1]

56. DU is primarily white & well-educated according to the latest poll

They may not understand that bad medical care can leave you dead.

[truedelphi]

59. In my case, I survived somehow.

But I continue to fight so that everyone everywhere gets good medical care.

If I could clone my current Dr, who works for probably ridiculously low wages here in Lake County, and has great bedside manner, quick wit and a real knack for knowing the best treatments available, I would.

And my ob gyn doctor left a practice in Hollywood or Beverly Hills to be here and work in the community clinic.

[Nikki Stone1]

64. Looks like you found some really dedicated medicos

Most of the ones I know spend their time fighting with insurance companies to get paid more.

[waiting for hope]

68. White and well-educated ...

and probably have the means to take care of "uh-hum" discretions that may pop up ..:( , hence they don't care because they have theirs.

[truedelphi]

18. Currently I live in an area where many of the doctors

and nurses are under the Control of their religious up bringing.

Recently I was denied my pain meds for one doctor visit. The Seventh Day Adventist doctor - she thought I should exercise away my pain. That was six months ago - and I promptly got a new and really terrific doctor.

In theory, in a an ideal society, where we had rational thinking people holding the decisions in their hands, I agree with you.

But in reality, women who are in trouble due to miscarriage, will have to hope that they don't get a religious nut case. They will have to worry that the resident on duty at 2 Am, whose decision is that since the Government insurance won't cover the procedure, and the person who is aborting (that is what a miscarriage is, after all, a natural abortion) is dead broke and after all, should the whole hospital be jeopardized by the possibility of losing the licensing because one woman gave herself an abortion?

[Warpy]

12. That's been the case since Hyde's amendment got rammed through

It's directed straight toward poor and working class women. Wealthier women have always had options and don't need public funding.

Poor women either raise the money any way they can, legally or illegally, risk their lives with amateur abortionists, or risk their lives producing babies they never wanted.

It's a horrible choice to have to face. It is wrong.

However, it has not changed.

[Arkana]

16. Um...you realize the Hyde Amendment has effectively stopped

federal funding for abortion for almost like 40 years now?

Roe is still the law of the land, a woman still has the right to choose. Nothing changed yesterday.

[truedelphi]

19. That is part of the point - nothing changed. A woman can, even in these glorious

Days of this historic Health Care "reform" end up dying because no one in Congress took it into their heads that the decision to handle needed treatment for a woman should be related only to the needs of that woman.

This bill could have helped along important and needed developments regarding "women's reproductive rights," but instead catered to the same old same old.

[pleah]

22. I won't stop fighting to get the DLC blue dog religious zealots removed from office

and replaced with true liberal/progressive candidates. I am sick to death of the religious taliban trying to dictate what women can and can't do with their bodies. And, restricting health care.

We still have to fight for single payer, too.

:hug:

[truedelphi]

53. I wish that I felt right now like I could handle yet some more battles,

But hopefully my mojo will return and I will join you.

[MissMarple]

23. When did this happen? this taps into basic health care, not abortion or what the ER doc thought..

There is something else going on here.

[truedelphi]

36. I think it had to do with the fact that in early 1972, abortion was illegal,

The ER doctor was probably a young and nervous resident, who had recently attended some seminar that explained how easy it would be for him and the hospital to lose the license that allowed them to exist. I am sure they emphasized the importance of not losing that hospital's credentials.

[mrs_p]

24. what a horrible thing to happen

that doctor should not be practicing.

[BlueIris]

25. It is disturbing that people won't recognize this.

That does not paint the denialists in a flattering light.

At all.

[girl gone mad]

27. none so blind..

as those that refuse to see.

[BrklynLiberal]

26. Sad sad sad...and oh so very true

[Hekate]

29. I'm so very sorry this happened to you. For those who don't know, it can and does...

:hug:

When I think how lucky I was not to be an orphan for the same reason -- two of my mom's miscarriages in the 1950s involved dangerous hemorrhaging...

As for your other point, truedelphi, I hope it does not come to pass. The Hyde Amendment has been law since 1976, and iirc nothing about it is changed by the new Bill. Of itself Hyde is NOT a good law, but it is one we've been dealing with the whole time.

The Hyde Amendment of itself did not cause the most egregious things pro-choice people have had to deal with: the "Right to Life" movement, clinic blockades, doctor murders, and the unavailability of abortion services in 80% of counties in this country. Those disasters were a product of the so-called culture wars waged by the conservative puppet-masters of the GOP.

In my dreams I want universal health care including complete medical care for ALL of women's needs.

In reality I know that a framework for the one and status quo for the other is the best we can do for now. I hope and pray that we will live to see the fulfillment of our dreams.

Hekate

[EFerrari]

33. Hyde is not settled law, or it hasn't been and the president's order

bolsters it. This is NOW's statement.

President Obama Breaks Faith with Women

Statement of NOW President Terry O'Neill

March 21, 2010

The National Organization for Women is incensed that President Barack Obama agreed today to issue an executive order designed to appease a handful of anti-choice Democrats who have held up health care reform in an effort to restrict women's access to abortion. Through this order, the president has announced he will lend the weight of his office and the entire executive branch to the anti-abortion measures included in the Senate bill, which the House is now prepared to pass.

President Obama campaigned as a pro-choice president, but his actions today suggest that his commitment to reproductive health care is shaky at best. Contrary to language in the draft of the executive order and repeated assertions in the news, the Hyde Amendment is not settled law -- it is an illegitimate tack-on to an annual must-pass appropriations bill. NOW has a longstanding objection to Hyde and, in fact, was looking forward to working with this president and Congress to bring an end to these restrictions. We see now that we have our work cut out for us far beyond what we ever anticipated. The message we have received today is that it is acceptable to negotiate health care on the backs of women, and we couldn't disagree more.

http://www.now.org/press/03-10/03-21a.html

[truedelphi]

35. I knew more about the gut level unfairness of this aspect of the bill.

I didn't know anything about the fact that the Hyde Amendment is a tacked-on, quasi-legit amendment.

Thank you for offering a full explanation.

[Hekate]

31. Dupe -- delete

double clicker

[Odin2005]

32. K&R. Anyone who opposes the repeal of the Hyde Amendment is no friend of women.

[cali]

38. but that's not what the op is about.

[Odin2005]

40. I was just going on a little tangent.

[Kaleva]

74. Stupak's challenger, Connie Saltonstall, accepts the Hyde Amendment.

"For more than 30 years, the Hyde amendment has assured that there is no federal funding for abortion and this bill includes that provision; there will be no federal funding for abortion."

http://www.conniesaltonstall.com/news.html#release02

[A wise Man]

42. This really pisses me off.....

no party...no man...no woman has the right to prejudge any woman on decision she makes on situations concerning her body unless its a joint decision between her and her husband. There are tooo many circumstances whereas those health decision are made by her and her alone...and not by some politician that needs a haircut. By the way i'm a man and i wish they get rid of stupack.

[truedelphi]

54. Your kind words remind me that there are no size, shape, race, religion

Or gender barriers to being a feminist.

[chrisa]

44. The NeoCons don't care.

They care more about cells in a womb than living people. They want to stop abortion because they see having a baby as a punishment for having sex. This, coming from the party that faces increasingly more bizarre sex scandals every week.

[truedelphi]

51. They' re such a bizarre group of people.

I get a headache when I think about them, and a worse head ache when I realize that the RW stations would never emphasize a group of people unless there was some underlying reason that doing so helped the MIC and Corporate interests.

I think we re continually being set up for the "Good Cop, Bad Cop, " paradigm, so we are forced to vote for whomever the Centrist Dems keep in place, rather than have Sarah the Half Brained get in.

[cbdo2007]

45. I feel bad about your story but it really doesn't have anything to do with current abortion

laws and procedures, besides the fact that you weren't having an abortion, simply bleeding during pregnancy, which IS covered under ANY insurance plan. D&C's for miscarriage are always covered with people's copay or after deductible so your situation doesn't apply. Today, an ER wouldn't hesitate to give you a quick D&C, even without insurance, as it's easier for them to do that then to let you go on with a failed pregnancy.

[truedelphi]

48. Women who have PM'ed me seem to disagree.

But we are only basing this on our own experiences.

BTW, the fact remains that right now, those who have religious beliefs and persuasions KNOW they can act in a manner of what would have been considered "guided by superstition" under Nixon or Ford or Carter. Their inclination to let their religious beliefs guide their treatment methods is protected by Free Speech. While our daughters right to die in a state of grace has been increased - far better to die in a bloody miscarriage than to be enabled in the abortion attempt.(Emboldened sentence meant sarcastically.)

I have already had a doctor in this County refuse me pain meds, that previous doctors said I required due to back injury. I was told to "exercise my way out of the situation." Some Seventh Day Adventists feel any amount of narcotic interferes with a person's "right relationship with God the Father." So I had to switch doctors to get relief.

Things are not getting better, they have steadily gotten worse.

[Skittles]

57. LOL

YOU.KNOW.SHIT.

[riderinthestorm]

62. Is 14 years ago ancient history? Or relevant to "today"? I was sent home to miscarry without a D&C.

The ER doc simply sent me home to "finish". No pain meds, no D&C. I had insurance (HMO Illinois) but was told to just sit on the toilet or on a towel until it finished.

This was 14 years ago so perhaps it's not what's done "today" but it was at a reputable hospital (Central Dupage in Winfield IL).

Abortion is a tricky area. Women aren't always guaranteed a sympathetic doctor or nursing staff. What may be innnocuous on presentation (truedelphi's story), takes on sinister overtones at some hospitals. You simply cannot generalize about how any medical staff will react in any given situation when dealing with pregnancy and the shit that happens with it.

That's why I find any intrusion by the government into this very personal medical area to be completely ridiculous and downright wrong.

[Nikki Stone1]

65. You couldn't be more wrong. Look at the OP again.

If a person has health insurance from the exchange, no abortions are covered. That same little intern who was afraid to treat the OP would be afraid now. Abortion is not technically illegal, but an abortion is not covered by the health insurance and cannot legally be so. The OP would now have to prove her ability to pay out of pocket because the intern would be scared of breaking the law.

[Mad_Dem_X]

47. I am so sorry you had to go through that.

And I agree with you completely - women are going to die because of that stipulation, and no one in the government seems to give a damn. It's disgusting.

[Greyhound]

49. Yes they will, but that's not important.

WE WON!!!
:bounce::party::woohoo::party:

:sarcasm:

[saracat]

52. Wow. Seems a lot of folks just don't "get" why reproductive health care

is important , and why the WH "reaffirming "Hyde, which the President promised to repeal ids a tragedy and an insult to women everywhere. But it isn't surprising when these issues are routinely dismissed as unimportant and mere bargaining chips.

[Nikki Stone1]

55. Thank you for this story, Truedelphi

This is exactly where we are headed now. Obama has thrown all the traditional constituencies of the left under the bus. Of course, if Michelle has a miscarriage, he won't have to worry about some resident refusing to treat her. He is and has always been a child of privilege.

[truedelphi]

63. If you get a chance, go and see the move

"The Ghost Writer." If it is based on the book I am thinking of, it explains a great deal.

[ncteechur]

58. The Hyde Amendment was the law before this law, it is still the law.

Now we can argue that the Hyde Amendment should be repealed but that wasn't going to happen in this bill to pass the House or even get 51 in the Senate.

[Lars39]

60. The Hyde Amendment has to be renewed every year...it's not permenent.

[truedelphi]

70. Are you aware of how strong a bill was underway by Mid November 2008

Until calls were made from the WH to stop the mojo? Maybe the women's rights aspects would not have been covered, but as Olbermann stressed on his broadcast of Nov 12th, the consensus was building for a strong public option.

[amborin]

66. scary story; women's rights have been undermined by this bill

[Nikki Stone1]

67. Yes they have...in a big way.

..

[glitch]

72. Thank you for sharing your painful experience. Hopefully you opened some hearts by it.

:hug:

[truedelphi]

77. A person would think that if they almost died, and then used that story to illustrate

A point that almost everyone would get it. But still some people didn't.

Thank you for your understanding and for the hug.

[glitch]

81. I know.

When I make the effort to share a painful experience that brought me a little wisdom or growth and it isn't immediately understood I console myself with the possibility that it will be understood at a later date.
That has happened to me, I will suddenly absorb a lesson that I heard but ignored long ago. Here's another :hug: :hi:

[Solly Mack]

73. Thank you

[truedelphi]

78. You are welcome. And thank

You for your understanding.

[bain_sidhe]

75. Kick, even if it's too late to rec

I came via a link from another thread. Thank you for sharing your story.

It's true that it's not directly related to the Hyde amendment, but too many people are invested in the "nothing changed" line, and refuse to understand clear and reasoned explanations as to why that's not so. So maybe another angle will help open their minds.

[truedelphi]

76. Your welcome. And thank you for

Your understanding.

[Ignis]

79. Here's another:

:kick:

Thanks for telling that story, no matter the retelling might have been. Some people desperately need to realize the cost of their "victory" in the HCR bill.

[ProSense]

80. The title of this OP is utter bullshit. n/t

[midnight]

82. This is too important a consideration to allow our medical care to be

wrapped around Stupack's moral agenda.