Once single payer was gone, I was out of the HCR debate...

[Subdivisions]

As far as I was concerned, there was nothing left to talk about.

[Xipe Totec]

1. And yet, here you are, talking about it nt

[Faygo Kid]

3. LOL. Excellent.

Most appropriate.

[Subdivisions]

4. And for what reason did you feel the need to snark me? n/t

[WhiteTara]

12. 'cause it sounded like you were taking your

toys home since you didn't get your way.

[Subdivisions]

31. Well, that's wrong. I was calling and writing to members of Congress instead of

wasting my time in ineffective debate on an internet discussion board.

[WhiteTara]

69. me too.

and yes, it is ineffective debate. I called, wrote, faxed too, and we get this. But I remember when civil rights passed. EOE came later. I don't believe the world is ending tomorrow and that we won't get to move ahead with better legislation. I don't intend to stop calling and writing. Do you?

Oh, I too, will be left in the cracks. Come on old age and medicare!

Oh, wait, there's a bill out there called Medicare for All. Let's get this done and move on to the next.

[Zomby Woof]

72. So now you consider this a constructive debate?

:crazy:

[walldude]

46. So a half assed shitty bill that only helps some people

is equivalent to taking your toys and going home because you didn't get your way? Why didn't you just use the talking point and tell him he didn't get his pony?


My family is one of the ones who gets to "fall through the cracks" on this bill. Is fighting for my family "not getting my pony"? According to you and your ilk I should just "go away". Although I have to admit that when I was told that today it was preceded by the word "respectfully". :rofl:

[grantcart]

13. Because you go on a discussion board on political issues

and publicly state that despite the fact that the entire Demcratic legislative caucuses of both houses and other leading progressives like Dean and Moore are now urging passing the bill you refuse to read it.

My neighbor, a elderly Marine widow, a Republican, has read the parts that I have given her to read and is better informed than you.

Really it was better to have a gentle snark than to have to spell it out in detail.

It is embarassing to see anyone bragging about how great it is to be uninformed about the most significant piece of legislation with the greatest expansion of Federal power in 50 years.

[EFerrari]

18. It's more embarrassing to see someone who is looking for a place to stand

in relation to this bill be chastised for asking the question.

A good advocate would offer one.

[Onceuponalife]

28. What question was asked? Did I miss something?

:shrug:

[grantcart]

32. dupe

[grantcart]

34. what question

The OP is saying that he is proud that he knows nothing about the bill.

The OP's stand is for ignorance. I have more respect for those who have questions.

[EFerrari]

45. Thank you for the illustration. n/t

[TransitJohn]

29. I'd say that the Patriot Act and retroactively granting immunity for violating FISA are much more

significant than this corporate giveaway.

[grantcart]

38. Completely off point to the OP

I assume that you would want people to stay engaged informed.


This bill is a much larger increase in Federal Power than any other act since the Civil Rights Act.


Beyond the merits of the bill the bill establishes that the Federal Government has the authority and power to dictate health care rules.


Now further discussion on the merits of a bill on a thread where the OP is boasting that he doesn't know the merits of the bill would be rather ironic.

[Subdivisions]

35. Where did I say I didn't read it or don't understand it? I didn't say that. Also, I mostly support

the bill going to a vote today. But instead of wasting my time talking about it on DU, I was calling and writing to Congress.

Refuse to read it? Pffft!

[grantcart]

Nothing left to talk about

You gave the impression that everything was pointless after that, nothing to discuss.


So why are you discussing something where there was "nothing to discuss".

[EFerrari]

52. Nothing left to talk about in your opinion.

I guess you should be PMing Skinner and asking him why DU is open for business today.

Seriously.

[grantcart]

53. No in my opinion there is a lot talk about

I am quoting the OP

As far as I was concerned, there was nothing left to talk about

Are you on the right thread?

[EFerrari]

54. Are you able to conjugate the verb "to be" in context?

[Xipe Totec]

74. Say what you mean, and mean what you say, and there will be no room for snark nt

[blondeatlast]

10. Doncha love aggressive passive aggresives?

:rofl:

[berni_mccoy]

57. Aggressive passive regressives

[UndertheOcean]

2. My way or the highway , eh ?

[Subdivisions]

7. Not at all. But I am an American citizen and I wanted single payer. Something wrong with that? n/t

[frazzled]

14. Yes, there's something wrong when the choice is between

the current system--in which insurance companies continue to drop people, refuse to insure them, raise premiums without any controls, impose annual and lifetime caps that push people into bankruptcy, and in which more and more people will become uninsured and uninsurable and health care spending will continue to rise in this country--and a bill that helps to correct these problems, insures 35 million people, helps countless others to make it more affordable, reduces the deficit and begins to regulate insurers.

In practical terms--terms that affect people's lives--your opposition to the bill is exactly equivalent to the opposition from Republicans and teabaggers.

But sigh, why do I waste my breath on this.

[NorthCarolina]

17. Yes, now that Private Insurance is the only way to go, thank goodness for

those price controls....oh wait...there are none. :wtf:

[laughingliberal]

22. And thank goodness they outlawed rescissions and annual caps

oh...wait...they didn't

[EFerrari]

24. Howard Zinn said that politicans have to compromise, citizens don't

and he was right unlike your false equivalence between critics of the bill and teabaggers.

[Subdivisions]

27. I don't oppose the bill. I simply did not participate in the debate on this forum.

I did call and call and call and write and write and write to many of the reps voting today in support of a single-payer system. That's where I put my time while all of you were wasting your time builshitting about it on DU.

Now, I'm a goddamned teabagger?

[NorthCarolina]

41. Apparently you were in the minority since only 60-70% of Americans

wanted single payer or at least a public option.:freak:

[earth mom]

50. The bill is garbage and is unconstitutional. It is a MASSIVE rip off of the peoples money

so stop trying to sugar coat the poison that bill is while you skew the issue with your bullshit innuendo teabagger crap! :puke:

[Bluenorthwest]

51. By you logic...the nut shouting faggot at Barney Frank

is the exact equivalent to say, Tim Kaine, who is also prejudiced against gay people, and also uses rhetoric that is, while less crude, more hurtful in practical terms, terms that affect people's lives. Like the baggers, Kaine is opposed to equality in any form, including civil unions. In this case, the common religious dogma shared by the baggers and Mr Kaine is given as reason for both sets of foaming bigotry.
So what say you? Is Kaine a bagger?

[frazzled]

73. I explicitly said "in practical terms"

So me answer to you question (intentional misspellings) is: yes, if Tim Kaine were to vote on a crucial bill on gay rights--say, repeal of DADT or DOMA--and voted against it, it would be the exact PRACTICAL equivalent to any teabagging Republican's vote. Or since he doesn't vote in Congress, let's say he only vocally opposed the repeal of these anti-gay pieces of legislation. That would still be the practical equivalent of any homophobic vote if a bill were on the floor.

[tigereye]

71. yes...

People worked to get single payer- it wasn't on the table. I don't know all the reasons. But this is better than having no reform IMHO. It's a good start and things can improve. Someone above said that this creates more regulation, and that's good.

[Cleita]

20. Seventy percent of Americans want single payer. When you ask them

if they want Medicare extended to everyone, consistently an average of two thirds of Americans say they want it. So the majority is being ruled by the minority is this case, meaning the for profit health care industry and those who work for it.

[sandnsea]

5. Glad the people who passed Medicaid and Medicare

didn't think like you.

[goclark]

23. Thank you very much!

[laughingliberal]

25. Yes, after they required everyone over 65 to have a private insurance plan

and open investment accounts with the Wall Street firms, we fought and fought til we got the public systems we have now.


Oh....wait...that's not how it happened.

[sandnsea]

56. After they required people to be on welfare

to get health care, or required children to have private insurance or not get to see a doctor, or required the disabled to wait 2 years to get health care, or any host of gaps that have existed or still exist in government health care.

There Is No Utopia.

[laughingliberal]

60. "There is No Utopia."

I don't know about that. I read a post from someone who lives in Canada the other day that left me in tears wishing I'd been born there and that I didn't check into emigrating sooner.

There's a hell of a gap between Utopia and what the American people endure just to survive.

[sandnsea]

61. They don't have drug coverage

We will in our health care plans.

[laughingliberal]

63. They negotiate drug prices that leave them paying less that a lot of Americans

pay in co-pays with their coverage. I know of drugs we can purchase in Canada for under $10 for a month's supply and our co-pay here when we had insurance was $40.

[sandnsea]

65. I pay $4 for some drugs

and $5 for others with my insurance.

I have also seen the price of other Canadian drugs, like Plavix, and I could no more afford them there than I could here.

No Utopia.

If we get to single payer some day, great. But I'll be damned if I just opt out of the conversation because I didn't get my way.

[laughingliberal]

66. Good for you. nt

[Subdivisions]

48. Can you read? Are you capable of reading comprehension? n/t

[sandnsea]

59. Yes. You said you are out of the health care debate

And I said I'm glad there are people who will continue fighting whether they get their way or not.

[Raineyb]

49. Considering this lot of congresscritters are a hell of a lot more partisan, uncooperative,

and beholden to corporate interests then the congresscritters of old I see no reason to put ANY faith in the ability of these people to "fix" a goddamn thing.

But then I guess YOU aren't being screwed by being pushed into the high risk pool so it's all good. For YOU.

[gateley]

6. Then I suspect you're doing a LOT to get Grayson's bill to the floor,

since you had all that extra time not talking about HCR.

[Cleita]

21. As soon as this other law gets passed, that is my next passion. n/t

[gateley]

26. Ditto -- I'm rarin' to go!

I don't see how ANYBODY could be against it, with the exception of the insurance companies, but how would the Republicans spin that? Yes, we know it won't be paid for by taxes, yes, we know the system is already set up to accommodate it, yes, we know that nobody will be denied, but we're just against it. :shrug:

[Cleita]

37. Let's hope the insurance lobbyists get out of the way while celebrating their

big win and future ill-gotten gains. Maybe then is the time to sneak this in. We have to make sure it gets out of committee and that will be by making our Congress critters sponsor it. It's in the Ways and Means committee right now. So far he has 77 co-signers so we need a lot more, but a little pressure on account of elections this November should be used to our advantage.

[Subdivisions]

30. I did a LOT trying to get single-payer. And, yes, I will be working for Grayson's bill. n/t

[gateley]

47. Good -- I really think that has more of a chance than any other type

of SP. You were trying to achieve the impossible in that climate, I think. I have high hopes for Grayson's approach. I'm excited to get going on it!

[leeroysphitz]

8. That's the spirit! n/t

[tallahasseedem]

9. So what?

Now you're here posting on it?

"Look at me, look at me!"

[EFerrari]

11. I felt the same way for the most part.

It's hard to find a supportive place to stand when things look so wrong from so many angles.

For me it came down to reserving support for this bill and supporting a Democratic victory. That's a chorus line of angels on a pinhead but, it's what I can do right now.

A peculiarly lefty negotiation.

[Subdivisions]

19. Thank you for your pleasant response. Some are demonstrating that they

are incapable of such.

Because I chose to state that I supported single-payer and, when it was shelved dismissed myself from the debate here on DU, I am being insulted here. Very nice. However, while I wasn't wasting my time bullshitting on DU, I was calling and emailing my congressman (Chet Edwards) and senators, as well as about 100 others. But, apparently for some, that doesn't matter.

Instead of getting the single-payer bill I wanted, we've gotten one that will require me to buy insurance (which as far as I can tell right now will cost me about $7,200/year) or face having the IRS collect fines from me. I do understand why it's there but I don't like it.

I agree that something is better than nothing and there are parts of the bill I support. So, it's not all bad.

There are some very nasty and hateful people on this board. But, then, I already knew that. My mistake was not carefully considering that before posting. If I had, I'd have refrained from posting.

[EFerrari]

33. A lot of people are very worked up today.

And, maybe rightfully, since this day will likely set the tone for the next three years. It's Big Casino.

We'll be okay, Subdivisions. Hang in there.

[Subdivisions]

36. I hate assholes. n/t

[Onceuponalife]

39. How is starting this topic dismissing yourself from the debate?

Help me out with that one.

Signed,

Nasty person No. 127

[EFerrari]

40. Did you miss the part where this is a discussion board, Nasty Person No. 127?

[Subdivisions]

44. The goddamned debate is over. The bill is being voted on TODAY. So,

I decided to comment. MY MISTAKE!

[dana_b]

55. I'm glad that you posted

and have fought for what we need - badly. The Grayson proposal is the one thing that keeps me going with this.

Keep writing and fighting!!

[Bryn]

15. Don't get discouraged

Forcus on Sanders, Kucinich, Dean, Grayson, etc. They all wanted Single Payer and want this bill to pass as a start.

[Subdivisions]

43. See, that's the thing with the assholes in this thread. NO WHERE in my OP

did I say that I wasn't engaged elswhere or that I do not support the bill up for a vote today. Spenging countless hours on DU bullshitting about a bill isn't going to affect the bill itself. I spent that time calling and writing to Congress. And, yet, I get excoriated anyway. Fuck 'em.

[Bryn]

70. Yes, I understand

:hug:

I want Medicare for All/Single Payer badly, too.

[Cleita]

16. It's only just begun.

It did tell us how corrupt our government is and what we need to do to turn it around. First we have to crush the power of the corporations over government. Outlaw K street first. I really believe we need an amendment separating business and government just like we have one for religion and government. Then we need to enforce both of those amendments. It's a hard job ahead, I'll admit.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

62. Personally speaking, I think it will be a futile job. $$$$ rules the day and gets

people elected. It all has to start with election reform. Unfortunately most of the people who would be voting on that are bought and paid for in some way or another.

[Cleita]

64. If we sit back and do nothing, they win. n/t

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

67. Let me give you an example of trying to do something in my CD here.

For years I had a Repuke Bushbot Congresscritter and she was in a long line of Repuke Congresscritters for my area. Along came someone who I thought was The Ideal Candidate! A True Rock Star in fact. John Hall, he was a lead member of the band Orleans. He was anti-war! He was pro-environment and for election reform. I contributed to him and worked for him. He won the race against the incumbent by about 1%. The minute he got to Congress Rahm Emanuel took him under his wing. It also turned out that Karl Rove placed a target on his back (this came out in the news) about a Congressman that had to be voted out and money would be devoted to it. Well guess what. John ran practically unopposed with TONS of money supporting him in his next election. And surprise! Surprise! John voted to fund and continue the wars. John also jumped off the Public Option wagon as soon as he was told to jump.

Cleita, I have been fighting most of my life and right now, at least in this moment, I'm tired.

[Cleita]

68. Take a break, but you can't give up.

My Repuke Congressman didn't even have a Democrat running against him the last two elections and still won't in November. He's a freshman and a total tool of the right yet he's given this seat like an heir to Bill Thomas whose seat he holds. However, I have some hope that we can change things on a local level and I think this is where we need to start plowing the field. The federal government is sold out lock, stock and barrel.

[provis99]

42. well give it up. Single payer is long dead and gone.

This latest health insurance giveaway bill made sure that health insurance won't be reformed for another 100 years. You lost the debate. Time to move on to financial reform. Oh wait, you're probably losing that debate, too.

[Odin2005]

58. Yep. We need HEALTH CARE, not "Health Insurance".

The Insurance companies make their money by DENYING you health care. FUCK THAT SHIT.

HEALTHCARE IS A FUNDAMENTAL HUMAN RIGHT, it should not be a commodity.

[Skittles]

75. yup

they compromised and got garbage

[treestar]

76. You're so much better than the rest of us

and above it all.

How that gets single payer is a mystery.