MI Dem governor Granholm using pensions to force retirement of experienced teachers.

[madfloridian]

For a long time many of us have seen the writing on the wall...that experienced teachers who worked their way to higher salaries would be paying the price for the dismantlement of public education.

We could see it starting even before I retired. There was resentment building from leadership in the schools to any of us who were on continuing contracts. It was pretty obvious also. They did not even try to hide their contempt.

Get rid of the experienced teachers, the new ones are easier to manipulate.

New teachers are so much cheaper, no experience needed.

Union says retirement incentives unfair

UNION: RETIREMENT INCENTIVE UNFAIR

BAY CITY, Mich. - Teachers union officials in Bay City say that a proposal to cut off vision and dental benefits of long-term teachers who don't retire by Oct. 1 is unfair, according to The Bay City Times. Kevin Stapish of the Bay City Education Association told The Times that, "It is wrong to choose between early retirement and the benefits they've been promised and are looking forward to."

The proposal by Gov. Jennifer Granholm offers about 46,000 public employees — 39,000 of them teachers — a pension boost if they have worked at least 30 years and agree to retire by October, according to the report.

By replacing them with fewer employees, who would earn beginning wages, the Granholm administration estimated the state could save up to $450 million, The Times reported.

Those who do not retire by October would lose dental and vision benefits upon retirement and would begin contributing an additional 3 percent to their retirement fund, according to The Times. Newly hired teachers would have to pay a minimum of 20 percent toward their health care premiums."

That is just the beginning of what Michigan is doing to teachers in public schools with experience.

The Detroit News reported teachers were being asked to agree to a $250 pre-tax deduction from 40 biweekly paychecks starting in January to fund the loan.

The Detroit Federation of Teachers (DFT) has not been much of a leader in working people’s organizations but this might be about to change. The main concern of the union over the years has been to basically protect the bloated salaries and privileges of the trade union executives, like Keith Johnson, the pathetic president of DFT. In fact, union executives have been openly working with the school authorities in Detroit to force hundreds, if not thousands, of experienced teachers to retire, so they can be replaced by a low-wage instructors, forced to work in charter schools without the slightest rights or input on how children are taught nor any control over curriculum or the day to day running of the schools.

In return for this largess and sell-out support, the DFT has been given assurances from their president, Keith Johnson, and his executives, that it will continue to collect dues income from teachers, and will participate in the myriad joint labor-management committees to police teachers. This is all a part of the Obama/Duncan Race to the Top. Sound familiar? Sure it does, it is magically growing like a fungus all over the nation, as you know if you have been following the saga

The last year’s tentative three-year contract between Detroit Public Schools and its teachers union included the district essentially getting up to $10,000 in interest-free and un-secured loans to be funded by each of Detroit’s educators for forty weeks. The Detroit News reported teachers were being asked to agree to a $250 pre-tax deduction from 40 biweekly paychecks starting in January to fund the loan. Teachers would get the $10,000 back once they leave. It’s called the grotesquely labeled, Termination Incentive Plan (Associated Press, December 6, 2009)

I am not sure of the final outcome of this, but the teachers began fighting back.

On January 14th, 2010 teachers finally refused to accept the economic blackmail of city, state and their employees and Detroit Federation of Teacher (DFT) members voted overwhelmingly on this date to relieve their current president, Keith Johnson, from his duties as DFT president until a recall vote is taken at the February 11th, 2010 membership meeting. The membership also voted for the DFT to join a lawsuit against the $250 million dollar TIP “loan” and to seek an injunction stopping any further forced deductions from their checks. They also committed to stand strong in the fight to defend their living standards and the right of their students to a quality education; the teachers are taking a stand for all working people.

The mass opposition of teachers and their courageous vote in these difficult economic times against the concessions contract signed by the Detroit Federation of Teachers and the Detroit Public Schools, deserves the full support of all working people.

[Deep13]

1. This party has lost its mind. nt

[LWolf]

3. So why should anyone keep supporting it? nt

[Deep13]

7. I don't. Not anymore. ...

I support specific D. candidates with $$ and often vote for the lesser evil, but I no longer support the party.

[LWolf]

9. I was there a couple of years ago.

I am now at the point where no "lesser evil" gets my vote. :(

[Deep13]

10. I know what you mean. nt

[The Northerner]

2. What in the world?!

[Bozita]

4. The coming for-profit charters need to show a good return on their investments.

This is like something from Naomi Klein's "The Shock Doctrine"

[Bluebear]

5. Dem. proposal: 'By replacing them with fewer employees, who would earn beginning wages'

This party has indeed lost its mind.

[The Northerner]

12. That's something that I may be coming to believe as well

[LiberalFighter]

6. If Johnson is working against the teachers he needs to be voted out.

[madfloridian]

11. I think they did, see the last two paragraphs.

Lots of union leaders have worked against teachers lately to be "bipartisan".

[madrchsod]

8. since 2001 Detroit has "spent"--1,636,733,999 dollars on the two wars

since 2001 the state of michigan has "spent" 25,865,715,999 on the two wars. this is what the state could have done with the money

http://www.nationalpriorities.org/tradeoffs?location_type=1&state=26&program=585&tradeoff_item_item=999&submit_tradeoffs=Get+Trade+Off


http://costofwar.com/


is there any wonder why this country is a second world country on the verge of fascism.....

[Bluebear]

13. No, there is no wonder :(

[Plucketeer]

28. THAT'S the big thing no one talks about.

Our elected idiots keep pointing to the military's brass as the reason we've not pulled out of these treasure-sucking wars YEARS ago! We've lost sight of the idea that the people hold the leash of the military. This is the VERY situation Eisenhower warned us of. We've got defense contractors paying for elections (and hooooooooooooooooooooooooooo baby! Is that about to see a surge - thanks to SCOTUS!) and Generals worried about their legacies should they not make a showing of their "militariness". TRILLIONS we'll NEVER SEE and NEVER BENEFIT FROM.

[Zomby Woof]

14. Granholm is a worthless turd

[JNelson6563]

31. She's DLC

And has been completely ineffective over the Rethugs in the state Senate.

Julie

[PassingFair]

38. Notice how we all rush to her defense?

She has been largely silent and ineffective.

I know she has had a hostile legislature, but
she has NEVER taken her case to the public.

Frankly, I'm glad she's leaving. I am heartily
sick and tired of having to defend her over the years,
as are most Michigan democrats as evidenced
by the vigorous defense of her you see in this
thread.

[blue_onyx]

42. I think she's been a good governor

I'm sure she's happy to leave the job...although she would never admit that. I do think she has taken her ideas to the public. For example, her defense of school funding and promise scholarships. She went all over the state, including a stop in Rochester that Mike Bishop didn't appreciate. Granholm certainly hasn't been perfect but given what she was handed, she's done a good job. I doubt anyone would've done better.

I hope Virg Bernero doesn't join some Democrats and run an anti-Granholm. If he does, he won't get my vote come November.

[PassingFair]

48. "She went all over the state..." Golly!

She IS the Governor you know...

I hope Bernero is MUCH more of an
ass kicker than she has been.

[blue_onyx]

50. Nice

This thread seems to be attracting a lot of sarcastic and arrogant comments.

I hope he's more than just that angry guy from Fox News. I haven't heard much from him yet (other than the state bank idea) and I'm not feeling too enthusiastic toward him yet. I wish Kildee had stayed in the race.

[proud2BlibKansan]

15. She's taking their health insurance away?!?!?!?!

That's despicable.

[madfloridian]

16. Only if they refuse to retire. How about that?

Nice, huh?

[proud2BlibKansan]

18. I suspect if they could afford to retire, they would

[madfloridian]

30. Many would.

There are also some who might financially be ok, but just don't feel ready to get out of the work force. After 30 years many teachers are just 53 or 54.

It's a cruel thing. And it's scary that experience and devotion mean nothing in this corporate country anymore.

Not even under a Dem administration.

[Bluebear]

17. Only if they don't succumb to her blackmail

[proud2BlibKansan]

19. And this governor is a Democrat

Damn. What happened to my party?

[Bluebear]

20. It's lost its heart if not its mind.

[madfloridian]

21. More details. Very cold-hearted.

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2010/03/gov_jennifer_granholm_applauds.html

"Gov. Jennifer Granholm applauds bill to lure 47,000 public employees, including teachers, into retirement"

"Now that legislation intended to lure about 47,000 public employees into retirement is on the table, local educators say they hope they can make some changes -- and quickly, so workers on the fence can decide and, if necessary, be replaced.

Gov. Jennifer Granholm on Thursday applauded the introduction of bills she believes will save hundreds of millions of dollars and create jobs for state college graduates.

Bills, including one introduced by state Sen. Mark Jansen, R-Gaines Township, would allow eligible employees to retire by Oct. 1 to get a slightly larger retirement check and would keep free dental and vision coverage in retirement."

Workers on the fence can be replaced if they don't decide to retire?

[madfloridian]

22. Teachers withthe experience of years in profession viewed with contempt now.

A sure sign that education is turning for profit.

Sad.

[blue_onyx]

23. Where does it say....

"Workers on the fence can be replaced if they don't decide to retire?" Workers can stay or not stay..it's their choice. People who do stay will lose benefits but they won't be fired. The quote you posted was referring to replacing workers who do chose to retire.

Unfortunately, the Reaganomics, "free market" policies aren't going to be changed and the states/local governments are being force to adapt. I think Gov. Granholm's proposal is a good way of allowing people who are ready to go to retire. Those who do stay, will face the loss of benefits but that's no different that everyone else. This will also open up jobs for young college graduates who may otherwise have to leave the state.

MI has gone through so much, has cut spending, and still needs to find ways to save money. The fact is, if the Governor wasn't presenting older employees an incentive to retire, we would likely go through mandatory layoffs. I think this is a more fair way to decrease the number of employees.

[madfloridian]

24. Yes, get rid of the experienced teachers. :(

"GRAND RAPIDS -- Now that legislation intended to lure about 47,000 public employees into retirement is on the table, local educators say they hope they can make some changes -- and quickly, so workers on the fence can decide and, if necessary, be replaced."

The problems MI has do not excuse dismantling public education.

The problems our country has are due to deregulation....so Democrats respond by deregulating the school system.

Sounds like they can replace them if they don't retire....and they can make life miserable for teachers who don't go along.

[blue_onyx]

25. That quote doesn't say ...

"Workers on the fence can be replaced if they don't decide to retire." You may want to re-read it a few more times. The "if necessary, be replaced" part refers to those who chose to retire. If they chose to retire, it would then be necessary to replace them.

How is giving older teachers an incentive to retire "dismantling public education?"

[madfloridian]

26. Now I know what I should have done long ago.

Not worth arguing with one who sees nothing wrong with getting rid of experienced teachers.

This is the children we are speaking of, not a business model.

Bye.

[blue_onyx]

27. It's their choice...

These experienced teachers will decide for themselves if they want to retire. If they want to continue working, they can do so. You act as if every teacher with more than 5 years experience will be gone.

Can't handle talking with those who have a different opinion, huh? Not surprising. I've seen enough of your posts to see that you are under the false impression that because you post a bunch of links, you think you are somehow more informed than everyone else.

[MichiganVote]

32. Save money? Save money. That's your understanding of this.

Boy are you misinformed. You really should try working it out from more than just a Granholm press release angle or the angle of the "public" press. This is a union busting move. The same union that protects the younger teachers.

Its hardly that simple. And for the record, the state legislature absolutely sucks in this state. Michigan will not "save" its way into fiscal responsibility. That's as worthless an idea as Reagan's trickle down economics.

[madfloridian]

33. Union busting is right.

Wrong to bust other unions...ok to do it to teachers.

Hubby and I were both union members, he of his trade, I of mine...proud of it.

[blue_onyx]

36. Do you drive a union built vehicle?

[liberalhistorian]

56. DU has a very strong, large and vocal

anti-teacher contingent, the vast majority of whom have never set foot in a classroom except as a student and who have no fucking clue what they're talking about. It's really disgusting to find that on this site. And discouraging.

[blue_onyx]

35. Nonsense

I LOVE when people think others with different opinions are simply "misinformed." How very "you're either with us or against us" of you.

There is going to be a reduction in teachers. We can try to make it easier by giving some the choice to retire or just hand out mandatory layoffs.


"Michigan will not "save" its way into fiscal responsibility."

Of course we're not. That's why Gov. Granholm has wanted to tax services and enact a graduated income tax. Clearly, with our legislature, those things just aren't going to happen.

[MichiganVote]

40. Right. And of course you have all the answers b/c the people who actually

work in education with higher ed. degrees have none. Lay off's will happen with or without Granholm or the legislature. Taken a look at the huge numbers of families with students who have left the state of Michigan lately? No, that's probably too much work.

You seem to think that people who are "at" retirement levels in Michigan have no needs themselves, are 60-65 years of age and of course are not affected by the economy. Naturally they have not had spouses laid off so they are just rolling in dough.

Granholm's idea was and is crap. Way to treat the segment of the voting population who has uniformly stood by the Democrats.

[blue_onyx]

47. Never said I have all the answers

Me pointing out your lack of tolerance for opposing viewpoints doesn't imply I think I know everything.

I never said I'm happy about any of these plans. Everyone has given up things they were promised...like the autoworkers who gave up so much to be "competitive" with the foreign companies. Realistically, everyone is going to give up benefits, pay, etc. Trying to find a way to make it easier by giving people who are willing to retire the opportunity to do so before losing benefits seems like the least bad way of laying off teachers. The situation is horrible but it's the reality we're faced with in MI.

[YvonneCa]

63. If you do mandatory layoffs, you lay off the...

...cheaper, less experienced teachers. It take more of them to save a given amount (say a million dollars). If you push the more experienced out, you will save more money for each teacher who retires.

FWIW, the CHOICE to retire can be a respectful way to save money...but sometimes it's not a choice. Sometimes teachers are forced to leave by harassment, bullying, etc. That is the news story here that is yet to be told...teachers are being forced out to save money.

[madfloridian]

29. More details. Retirement benefits to be frozen if they don't retire.

SO...now they are trying to get teachers to leave whether they want to or are able to do so financially?

How about that? They are trying to run teachers out of the workplace to hire cheaper ones.

http://my.hsj.org/Schools/Newspaper/tabid/100/view/frontpage/articleid/346466/newspaperid/80/State_prods_older_teachers_to_retire.aspx

"Physics teacher Jane Teska was not planning to retire this year, but if the State of Michigan gets its way, she may have to.

Dr. Teska is one of 39,000 teachers statewide and nine at Southfield High who would be negatively affected by proposed changes to the state’s retirement system.

There is currently a 220-page bill being proposed that if passed, would freeze retirement benefits for all teachers with more than 30 years of experience. The proposal would not give teachers credit toward retirement for any additional years of service. A teacher who currently has 32 years and chooses to work five additional years would receive retirement payments as if he or she worked only 32 years.

"I don’t know if I’m ready to retire," said Teska. "There are a lot of things that have to be considered. The bill couldn’t have come at a worse time because things in the district are unclear. Teacher negotiations are going on right now, so no one knows what next year will be like."

Teska is also the school’s Scholars Plus and Advanced Placement coordinator. "

[MichiganVote]

43. And let's remember that the schools in Mi. and the teachers just spent thousands of $

to become "Highly Qualified" under the NCLB requirements. What a fucking joke this legislature and this president have made the quality of education for students.

[madfloridian]

54. Much the same in FL. Teachers paid good money to be considered special...

and to get thousands more a year. I doubt they will get special consideration when FL starts the laying off and firing of experienced teachers who make too much money.

[MichiganVote]

65. In your state the Race to the Bullshit money has resulted in merit pay tied

to student achievement via test scores. As much as 50% of a teachers salary in Florida will now be tied to student achievement.

[roody]

34. Very sad.

[James48]

37. It is sad- but it is reality.

The fact is Michigan has been suffering from an extended decline in tax revenues for years- we didn't have an economic rebound in the early part of the 2000's like the rest of the nation. We've been in a recession since 1999.

The fact is state tax revenues are going down, not up. And if everyone gives a little in concessions in pay, then we'd be able to keep insurance coverage for all workers, like teachers, bus drivers, custodians, etc. in the public schools.

But some groups refuse to acknowledge the huge reductions in revenues mean we have to all give up a little.

That's the facts.

I wish it wasn't that way- but it is what it is.

[madfloridian]

39. "we have to all give up a little"

That is so far from my point that it is like a one-sided conversation.

Teachers are viewed with contempt if they worked for years, gained experience, and earned a decent wage.

This is not about MI or any other single state.

It is about a country giving up public education on the Democrats' watch.

[Bluebear]

41. Have the Pentagon "give up a little"

[MichiganVote]

46. Absolutely. A bake sale for tanks.

[madfloridian]

55. heh heh

That conjures up an interesting image. :hi:

[MichiganVote]

44. Bull. In Michigan we need to raise revenue and taxes. And it will happen.

[Takket]

45. no offense but.....

get off michigan. i live in michigan. this state has NOTHING. We never recovered from the recession that preceded this one. You think we WANT to get rid of experienced teachers? we have no choice. We are forced to make deep and painful cuts EVERYWHERE, not just to education. It is that, or bankruptcy.

[madfloridian]

49. I do take offense, because my post was not about MI more than other states.

Forcing out teachers with experience is not wise, and it does not have to be done.

I got an email that some were trying to get this post in some hot water.

I certainly hope not.

[n.michigan]

51. MEA you ask? Dumping RTTEnd into local regional and

spending union dues to join a Michigan Supreme Ct. appeal by Meijers, Inc over a GTCo. prosecutors right to go after them criminally for election violations. Yes. He is defending the citizens from outright violations that were conveniently settled by the Sec of State for Granholm. They paid a fine (several hundred thousand) and thought that was that. A deal. But there were crimes and the corp and its lawyers need to be held accountable for justice sake. And MEA, Teamsters and the Chamber- with Meijers.

Madfloridian, we esteem your writings and thank you. FYI, Granholm sent her proposals forward with 4 Republicans- unheard of. She is not to be counted on. Nor is Obama. She is using tactics that show little respect for educators. Frankly, I think we all need to take a day off, call in sick and march. And/OR, the MEA should prove its worth and do something proactive like take legal action on behalf of teachers...in fact..the whole NEA should take legal action over RTTEnd of public schools.

[PassingFair]

52. Welcome to DU!!

Contentious time to sign in!!

:hi:

[madfloridian]

53. RTTEnd...Race to the End. Good phrase there.

It is truly a race to the end of public education.

They can call it all kinds of fancy names, but teachers are now catching on. Even the teachers in my area who adore Jeb and think he can do no wrong....are saying wait a minute now. They realize that both parties are in this dismantling together.

Welcome to DU.

[madfloridian]

57. Many of these forced retirement teachers may be in early to mid 50s

If they started teaching out of college like many of us did, they could get in 30 years by age 53 or 54. Productive working years.

They may still have kids in college, may not have wanted to give up their jobs.

39,000 of them will have to get out.

[madfloridian]

58. People in other professions would resent being forced to retire...

at that age. But few step up and defend teachers when they are being pushed into it.

[tdog8]

59. More experienced teachers in CA

are treated as though they are useless and not very smart. 
They are considered to be inferior to the new, improved
teachers coming out of colleges today.  The generations are
pitted against each other.  "If only the older teachers,
who understand only the old ways, would retire, fewer of the
more deserving teachers would have to be laid off...."
seems to be the mindset.

New graduates are considered to have more and better training
than teachers who were educated a decade or more ago.  The
inference being older teachers aren't interested in learning
anything new.  (Never mind that teachers are all receiving
more training on 'how to teach' than ever before.  And that as
soon as a new strategy for teaching comes along, we are
supposed to completely disregard the older, now obsolete ways
of doing things.  The thing is, just as what we're doing this
year made last year's trainings suddenly old, the next new fad
will completely replace what we're asked to use this year.) 
It only takes a year or two to become obsolete in this
climate.

Experience doesn't count if you're anywhere near retirement
age.  What older teachers know about how to reach a child come
only with experience.  The strategies can be taught in Teacher
Ed but 'when to use what with whom' is learned through being
with children day after day, for years.

Neither of these points is meant to infer newer teachers are
of less value than "veteran" teachers, it's just
that both have something to give, not only the newer people in
the profession.

Education is not the only field were there are problems.  But
anyone who has a child should be worried about what's
happening to our schools.  Public education is definitely
being undermined and the laws are written to make it look like
schools are failing.  Getting rid of and treating experienced
teachers with disrespect is only part of the problem.  But
it's a large part.

"An informed citizenry is the only true repository of the
public will." Thomas Jefferson

It's more difficult for a culture to think though issues and
make informed decisions when voting without that well-educated
public.  

But that appears to be the point.

[madfloridian]

60. Excellent points.

They care more about saving money on teachers' salaries than about an informed citizenry.

A well-educated public is the least of concerns now where once we used to pride ourselves on it.

[tdog8]

61. Our class sizes

are also going up. And there is no money for supplies or field trips.

Our district isn't losing any administrators however. I heard they will each have to take 3-4 furlough days next year.

Meanwhile teachers are being let go. Those who are left will have more students crowded into the classrooms. Much of the support staff is in jeopardy as well.

But teachers 'accountable' and are to be evaluated on how well students do on THE TEST.

The lengths we are asked to go for those test scores is another story. Not a pleasant one.


We have no pride where our schools are concerned anymore.

[B Calm]

62. I can't imagine how tough it's going to be for kids graduating from college

this year with a teachers degree. . .

[tdog8]

64. I used to love going

to school each day. When a child 'got it' and you saw that look in her/his eyes, it was the most rewarding thing I can imagine as a career. It took tons of work and a relationship built up between teacher and class through the year.

It's so much different today. I don't believe it's just because I'm getting older. (I am not retirement age.) There are many younger teachers at my school who are shocked at what they didn't learn about modern 'education' in their college courses. (Admittedly, in higher performing school districts things may be different.) I teach 3rd grade. If my students have crayons or scissors out when the principal comes in, I'm written up. We don't teach anything that's not on THE TEST. We don't have time for Science or Social Studies. Certainly no Art or Music. The very things that interested students, especially those who were struggling, are gone. Now that testing season is coming up, we go from ELA to ELA test practice to Math to Math test practice. That's the day a student has to look forward to for the next eight weeks. (Only grades 2 - 6 take the test, but all grades INCLUDING Kinder and 1st do the test practice sessions.)

It's rare to see that light in the eyes as we don't (officially) get to answer questions from students that might be considered off-task.

Anything that won't appear on that test is off-task.

It doesn't look like it will change any time soon so we can get back to real teaching.

There are many days I do wish I was old enough to retire.

[madfloridian]

66. Our area has testing pep rallies and parties to cheer testing.

And they get to throw food on teachers to celebrate testing.

What is our children learning?

[tdog8]

67. That...

will be the day! :o

Although my district isn't far behind. We have TESTing assemblies where some teachers and administrators get slimed by students lucky enough to have their names drawn from a pool of children who have performed well enough on practice tests.


PS
I'm thinking our children is learning to disrespect teachers ("ALL IN GOOD FUN" and "FOR THE GOOD OF THE TEST SCORES")

And I doubt it inspires respect for their education. On the surface, you'd think achieving good TEST scores and being well-educated are one in the same. They can be, but in the environment of education today, they're often not.

[madfloridian]

68. Plus some principals shave their heads, get dunked in water...

or spend several nights on the school's roof.



Yes, he spent 4 nights on the roof during a Florida freeze, celebrating the FCAT