Screw this...leaving now to feed some FERAL, not WILD cats...

[joeybee12]

..feral cats are offspring of domesticated cats...cats that were ABANDONED by humans, they are not wild cats, the only wild cats of their size are in Africa. many of these cats have a high tolerance for adults, and will not run like a wild animal, so shooting them would be like shooting in a petting zoo, which, sick as it seems, apparently has a lot of support here at DU. Cats recently abandoned BY HUMANS will join colonies, so when the gun-totting yahoos shoot, they're killing something as tame as your house cat.

If you trap and fix and release them, it brings down the population, stops the behavior, and the killing of birds and small mammals is minimal...if you start shooting them, they become more reclusive, and you don't solve the problem. Contact your local animal control about how their trapping and euthanizing ferals and strays is working...they can't keep up, they would spend all their time doing this and not have time to deal with the real problem animals. You'll find they...who see the problem first hand...know that TNR works.

The ONLY way to reduce the feral/stray population is TNR. NOTHING else works. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.

[grasswire]

1. shooting them?

where is that happening?

[joeybee12]

36. There's another thread about that, and it's getting FAR too much support...

...I decided this had to be a separate thread.

[northofdenali]

53. Anywhere it's allowed. Here in Fairbanks? Allowed.

Ridiculous, but allowed.
I have 2 that are "adopted" ferals.

[LWolf]

2. Having trapped, neutered, and released an entire colony

of feral cats living on my current place when I bought it, and trapped, socialized, spayed/neutered, and re-homed two litters from that colony, I couldn't agree more.

[Warpy]

27. Removing them only causes the pest population to skyrocket

What you want to do is limit the population of feral animals, not destroy them completely.

My back yard is the local cat flophouse. Most of these have homes, they're quite tame. Should I notice youngsters or truly feral beasties, you can bet I'll be setting traps for them for TNR.

[LWolf]

33. My area is rural,

and after a couple of years the ferals moved on, or, more likely, fell to owls, hawks, and coyotes. The pest population DID skyrocket at that point, and I've had trouble managing it. I'm thinking about picking up a couple more to live in the barn. The packrats and rabbits are taking over.

The local spay and neuter clinic always has a few that people trapped and brought in for neutering, but didn't take back to release.

[Warpy]

52. Right, just make sure they've got food and water

You don't have to keep barn cats hungry to make them effective hunters. It's instinctive and they'll pounce on any varmint they find, kill it, and save it for lean times. Just keep them confined for a couple of weeks so they figure out where "home" is.

[joeybee12]

42. Hence the Black Plague, when cats were seen as evil and were

almost wiped out...here come the rats.

[CurtEastPoint]

3. THANK YOU for saying this. Alley Cat Allies is a proponent of

TNR. If you remove feral cats, it creates a vacuum, soon to be filled with others.

They are feral due to human irresponsibility: the owners should have had them fixed.

All you have to do is look a little bit and you'll find free/low cost neuter spay programs.

[tammywammy]

4. I believe in TNR

I had 5 strays show up at my house months ago. A neighbor and I were talking, we both noticed they showed up around the same time this new family moved in down the street. I've had them all fixed and give them food and water. Plus I have a couple of boxed on my front porch with holes cut in the side as shelter for them. I'm looking into getting a dog house to put out there, but haven't found one I liked.

BTW, Feral Friends in North Texas is how I got them all fixed. Loaned me traps and they cover the price of the surgery.

[Walk away]

15. We use Dog Igloos. They are insulated the cats love them...

and they are easy to clean. Also, you can move them close to the house when it's cold. If one isn't enough you can get a second one. They're inexpensive and last forever.

<>

[tammywammy]

18. I've seen those

I really want a rectangular box with a door in the front and so that the roof lifts up. I'd like it flat on top, since one kitty likes to get on top of the boxes to lay during the day.

[Contrary1]

20. Here's another idea for a shelter...

I have made three like this, and they are pretty popular in the winter or when it rains.



http://www.pacthumanesociety.org/core/WinterShelter.htm

[tammywammy]

21. Thanks for the link! n/t

[Walk away]

22. This is a great idea!!!!!!!! I'm going to send it out to the TNR group.

Thanks!

[dipsydoodle]

72. That's brilliant.

Ta for that. :thumbsup:

We've got just one "homeless" cat who shares himself amongst 3 gardens including mine so he gets fed at least 3 times a day....lol. My daughter named him Will. Will Feral........get it ! :)

[femmedem]

76. We've been feeding Mia Feral for six years.

We TNR'ed her and her sister Meryl Feral way back when. We built her an insulated wooden house, but the plastic one is ingenious.

[FedUpWithIt All]

74. We made shelters similar to this but we also covered them with an insulating

mud/straw mixture. The look like little mud huts and are very warm inside.

[joeybee12]

28. That's a great idea, unfortunately the largest colony I feed is in a 100+ acre

wash...lots of homeless coming through and I doubt those would stay safe.

[Donnachaidh]

5. both of my cats were feral cats.

One was full grown when she was caught, so she has issues. The other was a week old kitten who was all alone.

Feral cats are wondrous. THANK YOU for doing so much.

[joeybee12]

One of mine is...although I'd call her more of a stray than a feral

since she was somewhat used to humans...had some behavior issues but she is so affectionate and bonded so quickly she wanted to learn and be a good cat...just stern talking to over and over did it.

[joeybee12]

34. One of mine is...although I'd call her more of a stray than a feral

since she was somewhat used to humans...had some behavior issues but she is so affectionate and bonded so quickly she wanted to learn and be a good cat...just stern talking to over and over did it.

[Donnachaidh]

43. Jade had issues with me, I think she may have been abused by

whatever female she was adopted out to when first caught. She bonded pretty quickly with husband and son. It took close to a year to get her to finally sit on my lap. She kind of snuck up on me, rolled herself into a ball, and had that air of *I meant to do this* going on.

The kitten had to be bottle fed for several weeks. He RULES the house. And we wouldn't have it any other way.

[NNN0LHI]

6. What is the effect of trapping, fixing and releasing them on our native species of songbirds?

Any idea?

Don

[Biker13]

7. Between 500 Million and One Billion...

That's how many songbirds are killed each year by feral cats. They really are a menace.

[Bryn]

14. What about Hawks, Eagles, Owls?

I put out food for wild birds on my deck during wintertime and a hawk flew in & swooped up one of songbirds off my deck!

Quit blaming on cats!

[joeybee12]

24. Well the phuck did you pull that number from!!!????!!

Teh stupid, it burns!!!!!

[Biker13]

32. Right Here...

http://www.dailyrecord.com/article/20100313/COMMUNITIES/303130002/Animal-groups-Could-ruling-lead-to-hunters-shooting-cats

Educate yourself. Make that burn go away. You can do it.

[joeybee12]

37. Hmmm...from an activist for birds...where's the study?

Oh that's right, BELIEVE EVERYTHING you read, even some quote in a smalltown paper.

Still burning, sweetie pie!

[Biker13]

38. Oh Well...

Some fires burn for what seems to be forever. Enjoy.

[joeybee12]

41. If you;re that concerned, get involved locally to have all pets spayed and

neutered. Feral cats don't just show up one day...they are the offspring of cats ABANDONED BY HUMANS...that's the problem. Fewral cats are another byproduct of man's stupidity and carelessness.

[aquart]

25. Well, we feed birds AND cats (and, it seems a possum)...

And our birds have excellent sense about all the ways to disappoint a hopeful cat.

[joeybee12]

26. They're gonna be curious about the birds, but as long as they're

fed and fixed, they're not gonna really be on the hunt. No need to be.

[aquart]

45. They are so fed and so fixed.

The fastidious oppossum did shock me, though.

[madmom]

35. I also feed cats AND birds. They can and do co-exist.

[Bold Lib]

46. Co-existence with quail is NON existent. Cats are not indigenous and should NEVER be

allowed to roam free. They really screw with the natural ecosystem.

[Bold Lib]

47. Not sure about "songbirds" but they will destroy the quail population.

Dan Quail jokes aside, cats are not native to this continent and should NEVER be allowed to roam free. If feral cats are occupying an area they should be removed. By adoption, euthanasia, or just shooting them I don't care but they must be removed for the natural ecosystem to recover from their damage.

[Maru Kitteh]

49. There is no such thing as a static ecosystem

Species move, and are moved constantly - always will be.

[Bold Lib]

51. And cats have NO business there. They MUST be removed!

[Name removed]

54. Deleted message

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[panader0]

8. There is a pond adjacent to my property,

the only water around here. In addition to the ducks, commorants, occasional heron, and illegal aliens, there are feral cats and dogs left there by people who think it must be humane because there's water. I leave food for a few cats and dogs that roam the BLM land by the pond.

[Demoiselle]

9. I had (HAD) a feral colony under my front porch.

In the city of Philadelphia, by the way. I managed to TNR all the breeding females and find homes for all their kittens. I could never trap the grey tomcat ( Sir Thomas Grey) but he left when there was no more action to be had on my property, and he's gone for good. One semi-feral female is left outside. She lets me pet her when I feed her. She lives in a lovely, warm little hut.
She's the only one left, and she greets me every day. Several of her kittens are living inside my house, perfectly domesticated, as pets. She is spayed, of course.
The thought that anybody could legally shoot her disgusts me.
There are other TNR rescuers in my neighborhood. We have really gotten the population under control. Of COURSE TNR works!

[Lisa0825]

10. My eight rescues, three of which were trapped ferals, thank you for your post.

:loveya:

[joeybee12]

29. Thanks...and thanks for taking care of those guys!

:hi:

[Walk away]

11. My neighborhood solved our feral cat problem with a great TNR program.

It had gotten so bad that people who seemed nice were suggesting some horrible solutions. A bunch of us got together and call a group who come to your neighborhood or condo and help you set up a program. We had to stop the feeders who were making the problem worse and get them to become part of the solution. Even our local Vets office did the neutering for a small fee and instead of aborting and litters the vet techs let the cats give birth, recover and them get spayed. The kittens all got homes.

We still have a feeding station and we occasionally get a new customer but it's a far cry from the 30 cats we trapped our first week. Now there is a small and healthy group of notch eared kitties who catch the field mice (TN not R) and a happy cat loving neighborhood.

[Mari333]

12. I have an adopted feral cat

he is shy, but knows he is loved. he hides, doesnt really participate with the rest of the tribe here, but he knows he is loved and loves to be petted.

[Greenpeach]

13. I've had six neutered or spayed

and a permanent shelter built. The temp ones I had rigged, fell apart during the first rain. It was such a good feeling to know that they had a way to get out of the recent storms. They'd been chased out of every other yard on the block. One of the "chasers" got nasty with me once about my Obama stickers and as for the cats, he said "They should all be drowned anyway." His daughter was a cat owner though, if not a very nice one, but then she died and her kids moved him out. They took the collar off the cat and left it behind. It lives here now. Interesting how some people are, eh?

[Contrary1]

16. I've been feeding the same feral female for over 8 years now...

A beautiful long-haired tortie. I was finally able to trap her and get her spayed, before she was able to bring another load of cuties to my back porch. That's the only occasion I have been able to touch her in all this time.

Maybe one of these days...

[whyverne]

17. For those in the Pittsburgh area:

We have the Homeless Cat Management Team who BTW is having their annual Meow Prowl fund raiser at Moondogs this Saturday 3/20. http://www.moondogs.us/Home.html

My brother puts on this show and has helped to trap and fix Ks of cats. I'm quite proud of him.

[shockra]

39. Cool!

I found another musical-themed fundraiser in PA just a few days ago, at the Cat Angel Network.

http://www.catangel.org/

I'm going to give enough to get my name in the program, even though no one on that side of the country will recognize my name at all. It's for a good cause.

[Bryn]

19. K&R

Just rescued 3 feral kittens. They've become very sweet and loving. They turned up on my niece's property, brought in by their mother cat that never returned so I offered to take them. I had a male one fixed. Two females, not yet. They're approx. 7 months old now.

[Kceres]

23. You are a nice person.

I donate to Alley Cat Allies every year. Don't know how anyone could shoot a cat and justify the action. Some people just like to shoot and need an excuse so they actually try to convice others (and themselves)it's a HUMANE thing to do. Unbelievable.

[Hekate]

30. Someone in SoCal is doing TNR with semi-feral dogs at a desert trailer camp...

It's a terrible situation for the humans who live there, as this place I read about is barely habitable (everything from raw sewage to wires strung haphazardly), but the dogs are threatening to the women and children and the dogs are also in bad shape from fights and overbreeding. The vet who is participating is performing a very humane act by spaying and neutering these dogs as they are caught.

(As for the human-being situation, iirc from the LA Times several years ago, it's almost totally out of governmental jurisdiction, since the land is on a reservation, the owner of the parcel says he's only trying to "help" the migrant farm workers with low rents and a roof, and the migrant workers not feeling they have any rights. Last I heard, interested Californians were holding public hearings.)

Thank you for your work with the feral cats.

Hekate

[joeybee12]

31. My God, that sounds like a tough job...dogs seem to be so much harder

to try and catch, and also try and work with them after they've been on their own for so long. Good luck to them.

[Old Codger]

40. in 92

when we bought this place there were 17 living under the barn we went ahead and live trapped them and took them in, they fixed them and did whatever else to find them homes... better than shooting them for sure

[postulater]

44. We just keep a few coyotes in our neighborhood.

They keep the feral cat population down.

They also clean up the dead deer, like the one that starved to death on my patio last week. Somehow it's lower jaw had broken and it couldn't chew.

[udbcrzy2]

48. Spay Neuter & Release Works!

In our neighborhood we had the same problem. One tiny cat lived in a tree in my backyard,
she had 2 kittens. I had them all fixed and let them go. They still hung around and now
they will not allow dog or cat to enter their yard (our yard that is). That really works well.

[bertman]

50. Here's a piece of information that may help with the bird killing problem. If you can get

a collar on a feral cat it is worth the effort to try to put a Cat Bib on the collar. This is a bib-like attachment that does not interfere with a cat's daily routine (mine even licks his clean like it's his own fur) but it slows the cat's pounce a split second, and interferes with the cat's ability to snag the critter--just long enough for a bird or small rodent to escape. These things are not 100% effective, but they have really made a difference around our house where there are all kinds of birds, squirrels, and occasionally a rabbit.

My wife is a wildlife rehabilitator who hates it when our cats bring us "gifts" (minus the heads, of course). Our compromise is to keep the cat bibs in place. They work.

Here's the link: www.catgoods.com

P.S. No, I have no connection whatsoever to the product or the company that makes/sells them. Just a satisfied customer who's glad someone had this brainstorm.

Google "cat bib" for photos, etc.

[seagreen]

66. CatBib information request

Hi Bertman,
I invented and market the CatBib. Thanks for the recommendation.

I am always collecting information regards cats, predation, how the CatBib is used, how well it works, etc. In your message you said "when our cats bring us "gifts" (minus the heads, of course)." I've not seen that type of behavior in hunting cats, that is, biting the heads off prey and am curious as to your direct experience with this cat behavior. My one source of information on this is The Backyard Bird Watcher's Answer Guide, published by Bird Watcher's Digest. Here's their answer to the question: What is decapitating birds in my yard? (page 24) Answer: "In urban and suburban settings, grackles are the most likely culprits, although jays, magpies, and crows will decapitate small birds too. Screech owls and pygmy-owls also decapitate their prey, but, intending to eat them later, they usually cache their victims out of sight."

Do you think your cats are maybe harvesting already dead cached prey killed by other birds or do you know it's the cat doing the beheading?

Thanks for any information you can supply.

Sea Green

[bertman]

78. Sea Green, thank you for your excellent invention!

I have not personally seen our cats decapitate a bird or squirrel or vole or mouse, but we get enough of them at our doorstep to indicate that it is the cats who do the deed.

We get dead critters that are intact as well as the ones that are headless, but I don't know which cat is bringing which kind in. One reason I suspect it's the cats is that the gifts are often brought to us in the early morning; although, they could have possibly picked up some other animal's kill. We have barred owls as well as hawks in our immediate area.

I've seen the kittehs pounce on their prey (when they didn't have the cat bib on) but I've never watched the aftermath.

Sorry I can't be more specific.

[hamsterjill]

55. Absolutely, positively 100% correct

I saw the other thread, and decided best not to engage. The arguments being given on that thread about the cats killing the birds are old and stale. The facts do not substantiate it, yet the notion lives on.

I actively support several TNR colonies in one way or another.

[joeybee12]

59. Yeah, their concern strikes me as so utterly false...do they hate cats

that much, or is it the gun nuts who think shooting anything is a-ok.

[blindpig]

56. And now, a word from the National Audubon Society:

Feral and free-ranging cats kill millions of native birds and other small animals annually;

Birds constitute approximately 20%-30% of the prey of feral and free-ranging domestic cats;

The American Ornithologists' Union, American Association of Wildlife Veterinarians, International Association of Fish and Wildlife Agencies, National Association of State Public Health Veterinarians, Inc., and the Cooper Ornithological Society have concluded that feral, homeless, lost, abandoned, or free-ranging domestic cats are proven to have serious negative impacts on bird populations, and have contributed to the decline of many bird species. Worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction;

Feral cat colony management programs known by the acronym TTVNR (Trapped, Tested, Vaccinated, Neutered, Released) are not effective solutions to the problem. In fact, these cat colonies are usually fed by very well-meaning cat welfare groups. The unnatural colonies form around food sources and grow to the limits of the food supply. Feeding these strays does not prevent them from hunting; it only maintains high densities of cats that dramatically increase predation on and competition with native wildlife populations;

Free-roaming cats are likely to come in contact with rabid wild animals and thus spread the disease to people. They pose a risk to the general public through transmission of other diseases like toxoplasmosis, feline leukemia, distemper, and roundworm.

http://www.audubon.org/local/cn/98march/cats.html

[joeybee12]

57. A load of shit...n/t

[blindpig]

60. Care to expand on that?

or is that your erudite opinion?

[joeybee12]

61. TNR works, it's the only thing that works...managed colonies

are the only thing that works...keep trying to just round up the cats and euthanizing is a losing battle...the Audubon Society apparently is very ill-informed...if they truly were advocates for the birds, they would get behind TNR programs.

On edit, the Humane Society is behind TNR, the NSPCA is behind TNR...

[MzNov]

63. + a zillion

[blindpig]

71. Whatever.....

You people are really delusional.

[joeybee12]

73. Thanks for nothing!!!!

I guess you are a better guardian of the welfare of animals than the Humane Society...who knew??

[MzNov]

62. The Audubon Society "report" is totally unfounded and bogus

I've cared for managed feral colonies for too many years to count. It's absolutely FALSE that feral cats spread diseases to humans OR threaten any bird population. people who allow their domestic cat pets to go outside find that their cats kill more birds than any feral group.

If it's a totally unmanaged feral population, then the feral does not have a very long life expectancy, or must kill rodents or catch a bird to survive. Most cats are left to die in the wild by humans. Now the redneck knuckle draggers want to make a sport out of killing them.

PATHETIC and DISGUSTING.

There are many many sources you can find for the feral cat population problems and solutions.

Alley Cat Allies is just one of hundreds.

[joeybee12]

64. The audubon Society needs to get on board...It makes me wonder about

their comittment since this report is nothing more than grandstanding.

[Liberal_in_LA]

58. +10

[Atman]

65. A trapped a family of feral kittens, "fixed" them...now I still have three!

I found homes for two. One refused to leave when its new owner showed up -- went bonkers, clawed the person, shrieked, then hid under the bed for a day. So we kept her, too. They are all the sweetest, most lovable cats I have ever owned. It's as if they know they were rescued and are forever grateful. That, and we essentially "owned" them since they were a couple of weeks old, so they probably think we're their parents. LOL!

.

[joeybee12]

68. Good for you...I have one rescued cat and she is mercilessly loyal...

...she wants my attention and approval so much!

[Atman]

77. Actually, I lied...

They trapped me.

One day I was in my kitchen and heard this crazy noise, like a baby crying. I went out and looked under the front porch, but couldn't see anything. So I grabbed my camera and stuck it way under the porch and clicked...sure enough, a tiny little kitten staring back at me. That's when I started to put some food out. One by one these adorable little kittens began to gather at my kitchen porch. Within a couple of weeks, they were happy to come into my kitchen for warmth (this was all happening in late winter, early spring). Before long they knew our habits and were waiting for us on the porch each morning. Next thing you know, four week old kittens are sleeping on my desk, laying by the radiators in the kitchen, but they'd leave quickly whenever there was a commotion. One night we decided to just leave them inside instead of kicking them out...of course, they dug it. They never left. They're still the best cats ever. It's very cool comparing the pics of them when they were scrawny, crusty-eyed, snot-nosed urchins to now when they're beautiful, healthy adult cats.

.

[Robyn66]

67. I have had probably 15 cats in my lifetime

They were all strays and probably half of them were feral. Some of them were so "wild" for lack of a better word it took close to a year to socialize them. Its not easy but it can be done. All of my animals live to be at least 14 and had very happy lives.

I don't understand people who advocate shooting or wiping out anything. I saw someone on a thread here once who was in favor of euthanizing animals over finding homes for them through shelters. There are some people out there with cold hearts period.

[joeybee12]

69. some people are so enamored with guns they look for any excuse to use them...n/t

[Trillo]

70. We've got this problem right now, too.

a few weeks ago hear the mating screams at 2AM, and this presumably feral female is now looking like she's pregnant. I presume she's feral, but she does look rather healthy or well fed. Hopefully she's not feral, and if so hopefully she won't be having her ferel kittens under our patio.

[Duppers]

75. +1000 nt

nt