Wal Mart Question

[DemocratSinceBirth]

I know many people here are morally opposed to shopping at Wal-Mart because of their questionable labor practices. I would like to think you can be a fair merchant, treat your customers and employees the way you would like to be treated, and still make a profit. I still believe but it's difficult nowadays.

What do you say to folks who shop at Wal-Mart because they can't afford to shop anywhere else?

I food shop at Wal-Mart, Super Target, Publix, Winn Dixie, and Albertsons and it seems Wal-Mart is demonstrably less expensive.

I also notice that Wal-Mart is upgrading many of their stores to at least be on par with a Super Target. I think they are doing it because a lot of formerly middle class and upper middle class folks have been so been so beaten up by this horrible economy that they are looking for cheap prices. When the economy improves and if it ever does Wal-Mart doesn't want to lose them.

This economy has been a gift to Wal-Mart.

[RandomThoughts]

1. An example of race to the bottom

To create people willing to agree with race to the bottom, you have to threaten them with hardships like not having food or shelter. Then those ideas, in many cases, will let them agree with the lowest price in dollars being acceptable.

One of the many reasons, along with need for scarcity, that social control by profit motive will make the worst society the most competitive.

In the zero sum gain world of money, many times gaining power is about taking from other people. If you can buy elections, it is cheaper if you take as much money from the opponents supporters first. If you want to set wages lower for more profit, it is best to have a large unemployed work force under the threat of starvation or loss of health care, which is why some say their should be no social programs like food stamps or health care security.

It is all race to the bottom, or race to best bottom line might be another way to look at it.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

3. In The Wal-Mart Parking Lot

I see late model Benzes, Lexuses, Acuras, Infinitis et ctera and many of them.

[RandomThoughts]

4. I am not saying that is the only factor, just that it is a factor.

I am not claiming that the only reason people think of cost in money over cost in social impact is the reason in post.

I am saying that they add a factor for people to think about price first. Some people think that way because money first is what they believe, others might want to shop at a mom and pops, but if in hardship, they choose not to more often then not. That is the training effect of the hardship to get people to think of money first.

There are other factors, what if someone was selling a widget.

It had a price on it, 9.99 then a picture of the low income labor hardships the labor comes from, and the percent that goes to lobbyist advertisement and shareholders.

Next to that item was an equal product, with a 11.99 price tag that showed a picture of better working conditions, children in school not in factories, and a dispersal of profit with more modest distribution to everyone involved in the process.

That would show that profit is not the only thing that matters.


The funny thing is a product could actually run advertisements. Lets say you sell widgets from good working conditions, and your competitor sells from bad, you could run an advertisement spot showing where that 2 dollars savings is made from.

That is why we have monopoly capitalism, because some topics are not allowed to be discussed, real competition would include the social impacts of the production methods of the product, and environmental impacts. Not just a company saying they like the environment or people in society, but also pointing out how competitors might not.



A far right winger was telling me that small business is the main part of American business. I then pointed out everything he was wearing, everything he had with him, and asked who made it and where he bought it none of it was from small businesses. Instead of accurate information, much of the information is to protect information from being known from people for the benefit of a system.

[izquierdista]

19. Facts for your right winger

Not that he will read it, but: http://www.cepr.net/documents/publications/small-business-2009-08.pdf

Turns out America is NOT the paradise for small business, places like Greece and Italy are demonstrably better.

[Mari333]

6. hell, Im seeing formerly middle class people at the dollar stores

tons of them. in nice cars. c'est la whatever.
I go to dollar stores , too. here, its that, or walmart. not much else.

[cutlassmama]

20. Seen a lot of those at the Dollar Store lately too. Amazing.

[dynasaw]

9. Dead Peasant Insurance Company

In addition to their labor practices, donations to conservative candidates and history of tolerating sexual harassment Wal Mart is also on of the companies
that uses the so called "Dead Peasant " or Corporate Owned Life Insurance (COLI). Companies take out life insurance policies on workers and collect when the worker dies.
All part of the corporate greed that floods this country. Wal Mart is despicable on all counts.

http://www.fogcityjournal.com/wordpress/2009/10/03/dead-peasants-insurance-policies/

[3324SS]

2. Sadly Mao Mart is the only Choice for many

people, I have been to towns that the choice for all shopping food/retail is Mao Mart or nothing. It is a very sad and disturbing situation.

People should have nothing to do at all to do with Mao Mart.

But I also understand that some are forced to Mao Mart because that is all there is for 60-100 miles.

[endless october]

5. work to unionize your local store.

then walmart will close it.

[DainBramaged]

7. WalMart does NOT hire 'locals' when jobs are available

they hire non-citizen residents more often than not.

They have cut back on the size of the customer receipt, making it confusing and difficult to return items because items are listed by sku and not clearly marked on the receipt along with PRINTING ON BOTH SIDES. This isn't a way to reduce paper consumption, it's a way to reduce returns.

They are NOT the lowest price in town. Study after study proves them to be the same or higher on most items as the competition. A perfect example is in the electronics and computer departments. Their prices are no better than Best Buy, Amazon, Newegg, etc. and you can make the comparison yourself online.

Their clothing quality is shit, the stores are poorly laid out and confusing, and they are simply ripping off America.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

8. I Suspect Most Folks Are Buying Their Clothes And Food

It's hard to measure food costs because there are so many variables but it does seem their food is considerably less expensive.

[glowing]

10. Some of those accusations seem a bit off. The non-citizen thing may be

for some areas, but I've mainly seen local living employees manning the stores.

I've never had one problem returning something (most of their employees are not loyal to the store because they treat their employees like shit.. so, with a good attitude and a smile I've returned many items without a receipt before.)

AND yes it does really depend on where you live if you get the better price or not. Electronics are going to be similarly paired since the electronic companies "set" their prices which they have been in violation of time and time again... We can't rid ourselves of them because America doesn't make anything... so, we would go back to the stone age should we throw out the foreign electronic market. Best Buy is a box store... no better than a Walmart.

As for clothing.. in my area I wait for a sale and can go to a JC Penny's and find items for half the price as they try to sell at Walmart... Plus it is very poorly made. Now, for my growing kid, the price is right when a pair of shorts are $5.00 and he'll get only 6 mos out of it. I do try to hit up local thrifts as well for play clothes.. but he goes to school.. so, some "new" is in order at times.

The stores aren't badly laid out.. At least where I live.

oh, and I'm not trying to stick up for Walmart. Some items are def cheaper like laundry detergent and cleaning supplies and personal cleansing prducts... The canned veggies and pasta and salad dressing type stuff is cheaper.. along with formula and diapers being cheaper. So as a consumer, why not get the same product cheaper... Really I hate even dealing with a middle man... I wish we could buy direct from the company and get the real savings instead of a 150 o 200% mark up on the product...

[DainBramaged]

11. Good for the WalMarts in your area, I am happy for you.....

http://walmartwatch.com/


Even wanted to know what it is like to live near a new Walmart store as it’s being developed? Well today is your lucky day! This blog, ENDURING THE NEW HURRICANE WALMART: A Daily Diary Of What It’s Like To Have A Massive Supercenter Built In A Formerly Quiet Neighborhood, from a local West Virginia news site is an ongoing first hand account of just that.

Here’s just a sample of what you would be in for if Walmart decided to move in to your backyard:

A beautiful tree-covered hill and a quiet Hurricane neighborhood have been destroyed in order to build the new Walmart and Hurricane Marketplace.

Neighbors, including me,
are being subjected to
loud noise that I can hear inside my home with the windows closed, bright lights shining in my bedroom window before sunrise, and several cases of our water being cut off.

Greedy city and county officials looking to grab more property and Business and Occupancy taxes are refusing to enforce city and state noise ordinances, and are also refusing to buy out the homeowners that are living next to the construction site.

Hurricane City Manager Benjamin Newhouse, and Cleveland Construction Supervisor David Koon have both demanded that homeowners move if we don’t like the noise. However neither is willing to cut a check for our homes.

The Putnam County Development Authority, which created this mess, refuses to buy us out and develop our land.

[glowing]

14. I live in FL.. the Urban Spral capital... The towns are literally built around

the development of the big box stores..

However, I come from VT, and Walmart has not been allowed to be built. There is one accross in NH, and it is disgusting... As well as a living phsyc analagy/ term paper waiting to happen with the people who do shop there. I do know not all Walmarts are created equally... And I don't go unless I have to.. The target and publix is closer.. so, I pay a little more for less of a headache.. since Walmart packs the shoppers in.. provides 30 chashier lanes, but only has 10 ever open, and 4 of them are express lanes.

[tabbycat31]

24. I find my grocery store prices better on many things

First of all our WM does not have groceries but is in the middle of upgrading.

Laundry detergent-- our Wegman's (named in the top 100 companies to work for) has Arm and Hammer laundry detergent on sale for $1.99 (32 load bottle). I doubt Walmart could beat that price.

You hit the nail on the head when it comes to clothing--- you want clothing bargains-- go to Kohl's and hit the clearance racks. Cheaper (and nicer clothes) than Walmart.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

26. We Have Publix, Winn Dixie, SuperTarget, Alibertsons, And Aldi

Publix is the major player.

[tabbycat31]

28. shopping grocery store sales can be cheaper than Walmart

And Aldi's is a good value for groceries

[cornermouse]

16. Prices can be cheaper but if you have to pay shipping costs

for internet purchases that factors in. Clothing quality and style, I agree.

I believe the stores are meant to be confusing so that you spend more time wandering around the store and picking up a few more impulse items along the way. Move and more, they're pushing the Great Value brand which I have trouble finding a country of origin and which therefore I don't buy. In fact, I look at food labels and if they say China I leave it there. And I need some new pans but have yet to find some not made in China so I haven't bought any.

[Gaedel]

22. Walmart Grocery Shopping

Walmart just opened a "neighborhood market" grocery store near us. Unlike a Super Walmart, it has nothing but groceries and pharmacy (i.e. no clothes, electronics, toys, or hardware). We have the leisure to shop around, being retired. We go to Costco, Publix, occasionally Winn-Dixie, and occasionally Super Walmart and Super Target. We get different things at the different stores.

With regards to Great Value and Equate brands, I use the "drug store" test. If the container of a store brand product is identical to the container of the name brand product sitting next to it on the shelf, I assume that the store brand was produced for the store by the name brand company and is virtually the same thing.

BTW the traditional "Walmart shopper" seems to not have caught on to the Walmart neighborhood market concept and shopping in there is quite pleasant (not enough for me to hazard the meat department though).

[cornermouse]

23. WalMart.

"If the container of a store brand product is identical to the container of the name brand product sitting next to it on the shelf, I assume that the store brand was produced for the store by the name brand company and is virtually the same thing."

I'm sorry but I don't assume anything. They either say where its from or it stays on the shelf.

[blue_onyx]

18. I agree about pricing

I've only been in a Walmart a few times and the prices I find at Meijer and Kroger are pretty similar, if not better.

[Odin2005]

25. IMO the only thing where WM is consistently cheaper in is groceries.

Their "Great Value" stuff is pretty cheap.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

27. They Aren't In Central Florida

~

[Bill McBlueState]

12. "What do you say to folks who shop at Wal-Mart because they can't afford to shop anywhere else?"

Perfectly understandable. What are you doing to let Wal-Mart know you oppose their labor practices?

[Robb]

13. It's not their responsibility.

The onus should never been on the oppressed to "free themselves." It falls on those who can afford to shop elsewhere, organize labor, and take whatever steps possible.

[ima_sinnic]

15. be careful of the food you buy at Wal-Mart, a lot of it comes from China

Frankly, I prefer to spend a little more for food, to give local retailers my business and also in hopes of better quality and higher standards. I also try to buy food that is the least processed and most basic, and I rarely buy any meat at all--Walmart seems to specialize in canned stuff, white-bread type stuff, and things like Hamburger Helper that simply do not interest me.
Really, how much are you saving when you get down to it? I believe Walmart has drastically lower prices on certain "loss leader" foods (i.e., staples that people buy a lot and note the prices) but on other items are not that much cheaper. Have you ever done a real comparison, item for item with other stores? The total savings may only amount to a dollar or two.

[cornermouse]

17. Not only that.

Lately they've been cutting back on the variety that they offer.

[glowing]

29. What doesn't come out of China. Many of the major corps for food send the same

items to Walmart that they do to the Grocery store. You literally have to research every single corporation and read every single label.. AND even then its deceiving since many of the ingredients used to make an item in the US has come from China.

[Name removed]

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