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Today I attended my first Michele Bachmann rally

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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:15 PM
Original message
Today I attended my first Michele Bachmann rally
When I learned a few days ago that Michele Bachmann was going to be holding a Kill the Bill rally at the Minnesota State Capitol I knew that I had to be there. While I have my problems with the bill that is currently being pushed through Congress, this rally was obviously about something much larger than this particular bill. The people holding this rally were not just against the current bill, they were against any government assistance which provides health care to those who are less fortunate and that is a position which is deeply immoral and needs to be challenged.

There were not a lot of people who were too excited about going to a Michele Bachmann rally with me and quite frankly I was not at all excited about the idea myself. My friend Coleen was not too excited about going out there either, but she agreed that it was important to make sure an opposing viewpoint was heard and so she made her way to the Captiol with a banner for us to hold.

One of the first things I noticed when I arrived was two men being kicked off the Capitol grounds by police because they literally brought pitchforks to the event. While I have heard people speak about torches and pitchforks metaphorically on many occasions, this was the first time I had actually witnessed anyone carrying them to an event. After seeing the pitchforks and hearing the angry chants of Kill the Bill! Kill the Bill! I knew that this was a riled up crowd and they would probably not be too happy when our banner was unfurled, but it had to be done.

Coleen arrived a few minutes after I got there and we decided to walk up onto the Capitol steps. The rally was being held on the mall in front of the Capitol so the steps were positioned directly behind the speaker's podium making our banner easy to see from the crowd.

One side of our banner read Health Care Not Warfare while the other side read Health Care not Wealthcare, and for the first few minutes we were able to hold it without any issues. We had a couple Bachmann supporters come up with us to politely express their disagreement, one of them actually seemed pretty willing to listen to our views and was not entirely opposed to what we were doing. Another woman who had her three daughters with her confronted by telling us how many people in the insurance industry would lose their jobs if single payer was passed, she seemed deeply concerned about the jobs of those in the insurance industry but then she revealed to us that she did not have insurance and neither did any of her children. She proudly boasted that if anyone in her family got sick they would not expect help from anyone else, they would get through it on their own. I sincerely hope that this woman's family never has their ideology challenged the hard way, I have no doubt that they would immediately seek help if their daughters were in need as any good parents would but my hope is that they never have to seek that help. It was sad to see this woman taking her family to cheer on those who don't care about her family's lack of health care and I hope that she soon realizes the agenda of those who sponsored this rally.

After just a few more minutes of standing on the steps the Bachmann supporters decided they wanted to silence our message and a group of them showed up on the steps to harass us. It started when a couple of people stood directly in front of the banner to prevent the rest of the crowd from seeing what it said. We moved a few feet to the left and they moved along with us, we moved to the right and they followed. No matter where we walked this group moved right in front of us to make sure that no dissenting signs could be seen, but we were not about to let them silence us.

We kept walking back and forth and they kept following, we were often able to get our banner in sight just long enough for the crowd below to be able to read it before the Bachmann thugs blocked us again. We kept moving because we wanted people to see that this group was intentionally trying to silence our message, by trying the block us and causing all that movement on the steps the Bachmann supporters were unintentionally bringing a lot more attention to us and making our message even more noticeable than it would have been if we had just stood there without facing such obvious harassment.

Coleen and I decided to move from the steps and circle around the rally, as we stepped into the crowd more Bachmann supporters started to march in front of our banner, I sarcastically thanked them for marching in solidarity with us.

At one point a woman joined the crowd and started yelling at me Why do you want to take away our freedom!!! I tried to point out to her that I was not taking away her freedom, but she was not exactly being very respectful of the first amendment when she was trying to cover up our banner to prevent dissenting opinions from being expressed on public land. She did not seem to get my point that freedom was about a lot more than the freedom for insurance industry executives to make huge profits.

We kept walking around for about an hour until the rally ended, the Bachmann supporters would try to block our sign and I would quickly change directions so that our sign was once again visible and they had to turn around to get in front of it again. I did not see a lot of video cameras in the area, but my hope is that someone caught it on tape because it would make a great YouTube that would really demonstrate the lengths the Bachmann crowd would go to to prevent our message from being heard.

As the rally started to wrap up and Coleen and I started to walk away from the crowd of about five hundred people we heard an announcement from the stage that 4,000 people attended the rally today and don't let anyone tell you otherwise. This was a blatant lie and the fact that the announcer had to add don't let anyone tell you otherwise told me that she knew it was a blatant lie. I later heard an estimate of 1,000 people and while this seems very high to me I could at least accept it as being within the accepted perimeters of what could be considered a fair estimate. Five hundred to a thousand people is a pretty big turnout for a rally like this and the organizers could have chosen to give an honest estimate and they would have been able to brag about their turnout, but instead they had to inflate their estimate to such an absurd level that it should have shown anyone who was observing the rally honestly that they were being lied to. I only hope that some of them realize that the number of people was not the only thing they were being lied to about.
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:21 PM
Response to Original message
1. Thank you. ... And please thank Coleen for me.
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
2. Next time take one more friend with a camera
And put it on YouTube.

Thanks for doing this! The good karma fairy is taking notes.
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kimi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:33 PM
Response to Original message
3. Thank you!
People like you and Coleen, making your points known in spite of the efforts of others to stop you, help us all. It's something to be very proud of.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:37 PM
Response to Original message
4. Physicians for a National Health Plan have a FAQ section that
Edited on Sat Mar-13-10 07:38 PM by Cleita
answers a lot of those RW concerns like people losing their jobs. http://www.pnhp.org/facts/single-payer-faq#insurance_companies

What will happen to all of the people who work for insurance companies?

The new system will still need some people to administer claims. Administration will shrink, however, eliminating the need for many insurance workers, as well as administrative staff in hospitals, clinics and nursing homes. More health care providers, especially in the fields of long-term care, home health care, and public health, will be needed, and many insurance clerks can be retrained to enter these fields. Many people now working in the insurance industry are, in fact, already health professionals (e.g. nurses) who will be able to find work in the health care field again. But many insurance and health administrative workers will need a job retraining and placement program. We anticipate that such a program would cost about $20 billion, a small fraction of the administrative savings from the transition to national health insurance.

PNHP has worked with labor unions and others to develop plans for a jobs conversion program with would protect the incomes of displaced clerical workers until they were retrained and transitioned to other jobs.


Next time you do this arm yourself with some counter arguments. I have done this successfully when working tables during elections years and you will be surprised how many people are sincere and get their eyes opened when you give them a few facts to hold on to. There's a difference between hard ass conservatives and those who have just been propagandized and need some information.

Thank you for your activism and keep up the good work!

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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. We had some counter arguments, and a few of them would listen
There were a couple people who were seemed to be fairly reasonable and willing to listen, but there were several others who just wanted to harass and they won't listen to a thing you say no matter how well you argue it. Coleen did a great job of debating one Bachmann supporter and she was shrugging her shoulders trying to come up with an argument and just was not able to do it. I think she actually was questioning her beliefs and hopefully she will go away learning something.
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Yeah, you can't do anything with the harassers who are probably on
some RW think tank's payroll anyway.
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ddeclue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:38 PM
Response to Original message
5. teabagger math..1,2,.4000!
:rofl:
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dixiegrrrrl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:46 PM
Response to Original message
6. Cheers on you.
And I second the idea of bringing your own camera if you can, next time.

Here's your sign:

:yourock:
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 07:51 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I know, I was really wishing we had more people
We just found out about this a couple days earlier and there was no time to organize, I had a camera in my pocket but it is pretty difficult to film while you are being harassed by a mob. Next time we will get someone to film from a distance so the teabaggers don't know they are with us.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. Thank you, I can tell you used all four of your brain cells to come up with such a deep response
Edited on Sat Mar-13-10 08:08 PM by Bjorn Against
:rofl:
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FarLeftRage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Interesting...
Maybe you'll get a pizza delivery soon.
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gratuitous Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:09 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Oh, bulllldog123
You're so cute. I just want to hug you. The "unoriginal" thing? Mwah! Priceless. By the way, it's not "Your" a bunch, it's "You're" a bunch. I call it the English language. Please learn it if you're going to post on an American message board. Thanks.
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
56. *snort*!!!
:rofl:


best response evah! (I missed the troll, actually -- but your response makes it almost as good as being there!! Heee!)
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
13. Good for you
Been there done that. Know what it takes. I applaud your courage :applause:
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 09:29 PM
Response to Reply #13
23. I applaud you as well proud2Blib
I have seen enough of your posts to know that when you say "Been there done that" you mean it. Thanks for all your activism, you are one of DU's best when it comes to getting out there and working for change.
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proud2BlibKansan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 09:49 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. Wow. What a nice thing to say.
Thanks.

Hang in there. I'm hoping Bachman will be history this time next year. :)
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jmondine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:17 PM
Response to Original message
14. That's like saying, "Today I stuck a rabid wolverine down my pants".
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:24 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. It kind of felt like that too...
:rofl:
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Zoigal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
17. Kudos to you and Colleen...thanks for challenging the Bachmann crowd....z
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grahampuba Donating Member (72 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:55 PM
Response to Original message
18. figures
Edited on Sat Mar-13-10 09:00 PM by grahampuba
Local news is reporting "Thousands Attended"
http://www.startribune.com/politics/local/87593572.html?elr=KArksLckD8EQDUoaEyqyP4O:DW3ckUiD3aPc:_Yyc:aUUX

same news organizations that underestimated the crowds for the RNC convention, inflates them for the teabaggers.

figures.

edit,..
also, that article removed quotes attributed to the audience like "Kill the Bastard".

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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #18
22. The police are reporting "less than 2,000" and I suppose that is technically true...
There were a lot less than 2,000, I think my estimate of about five hundred is pretty close to accurate. I have been in many marches and rallies and I can tell the difference between hundreds and thousands, this was definitely in the hundreds.
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movonne Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
19. your and Colleen were very brave...thank you ...
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wellstone dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 08:58 PM
Response to Original message
20. You are my hero.
Now let's get her out of office!
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goclark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 09:00 PM
Response to Original message
21. What a champion ~ three cheers for both of you!
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Last_Stand Donating Member (247 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 09:59 PM
Response to Original message
25. Thank you both for your bravery and action!
I hope your state gets that nutjob out of office soon.
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Coleen Rowley Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:18 PM
Response to Original message
26. Bachmann and Kline's "Kill the Bill" Rally
Thanks Bjorn!!! We really did earn our "dissent is patriotic" merit badge today! You forgot to mention that Michele Bachmann shared the stage with John Kline at their anti-healthcare reform rally. The dozen or so different people (mostly men) who quickly came over to try and block our message and then followed us around, actually became a good captive audience so Bjorn and I actually got a good chance to debate the issues. Although many were rather close-minded and one even called us "Communists", a couple actually listened to a limited extent. (If you havent noticed, whats happening with Obama becoming the new war president, is that many conservatives are finally turning against the expensive wars as the national debt goes off the chart so I don't think everyone in the crowd was against that part of our banner. One of the five Republicans, by the way, who voted for Kucinichs Anti-war Resolution made a point of saying on the floor that its not conservative" to support the costly, unjustified wars.)

It WAS surprising, as Bjorn mentions, how many of the poor people in Bachmanns crowd who were yelling kill the bill! and who were adamantly opposed to health care reform, told us they dont have insurance and/or cannot afford it but will pay out of their own pockets if and when they need health care.

The other good thing was we got to hear this great patriotic drumming by a guy dressed as a Revolutionary patriot who was standing a few steps away from us on the Capitol steps!



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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:26 PM
Response to Reply #26
27. Thanks Coleen...
Yes I should have mentioned that Kline was there as well, it is very noteworthy that they were protesting against "big government" while at the same time their speakers were high up officials in that big government.

Thanks so much for braving the mob with me today.
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mstinamotorcity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 10:39 PM
Response to Original message
28. I am glad you and your friend did not get hurt
Edited on Sat Mar-13-10 10:40 PM by mstinamotorcity
I am glad that you were able to express yourself,but when dealing with the opposition be very careful. A lot, not all, but quite a few are resorting to violence.And the repugs always lie about the numbers in attendance. Hell the teabaggers had a protest in my city and it grew from one at about 9:00 am in the morning to big old whopping twenty by mid day. I even posted pictures so they could not lie. You can take them with your cell phone and email them to yourself then down load. Took me a minute but the good folks here at DU helped me.:hi:
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Mar-13-10 11:05 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. We did have one guy that made a really bizarre comment to us...
A Bachmann fan walked up to us and shook our hands to thank us for being out there, at first I thought he was someone who might not agree with us but respected us for expressing ourselves. Then he told us why he was thanking us, he said "I am thanking you because I know that if you were in battle with me I wouldn't have to shoot you because I would stand behind you and watch you take the bullet for me, I would never trust you standing behind me though." It may not have risen to the level of a threat, but it was a very creepy statement. I try not to think about the potential of violence though, I think it is important to take a stand and I can't allow myself to be scared away because of the fear of what someone might do to me.
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annm4peace Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:01 AM
Response to Original message
30. awesome
n/t
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Bozita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:05 AM
Response to Original message
31. Regarding the group following/blocking you, ... did any of 'em walk upright?
Anthropologists tell me that's real important.
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patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
32. Please accept my sincere admiration and respect, Bjorn Against & share it with Colleen.
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KonaKane Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
33. I don't get the masochistic streak in so many conservatives
This is what caught my eye in your post...

Another woman who had her three daughters with her confronted by telling us how many people in the insurance industry would lose their jobs if single payer was passed, she seemed deeply concerned about the jobs of those in the insurance industry but then she revealed to us that she did not have insurance and neither did any of her children. She proudly boasted that if anyone in her family got sick they would not expect help from anyone else, they would get through it on their own.

I have never...ever....understood this. Why do so many people want to fight so hard AGAINST their own interests, for people who do not give a flying shit about them (like the health care moguls)?

Anybody have an answer? Is this sort of a political "Thank you Sir may I have another" thing?
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:17 AM
Response to Reply #33
51. There was a BBC article I had read on this and from what I can remember
its more of a perceived "being told what to do" so they do the opposite, even if it goes against their interests. They honestly believe other people are trying to take their money and take their life style. Plus, if they supported something, then find they were wrong to support it, rather than admit they were wrong and move on - they hold tight so they never have to admit, just to themselves, that they were wrong.

I'll try to find the article and will msg you with it - I had posted it on my fb page not to long ago.

Cheers
Sandy
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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:59 AM
Response to Reply #33
57. I wonder the same thing.
Don't have any answers, just some speculation, for what that's worth....

One thing I suspect is that they haven't had to test their determination yet. It's pretty easy to be courageous and resolved when you're not being tested. Probably, if and when the day comes that they have a catastrophic illness in the family -- they'll change their tune fast. And then, it will be very sad.

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truth2power Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #57
83. A very astute comment...
I was really struck by that woman's statement. I can't understand how she could be so clueless in terms of the real cost of healthcare and how that cost can result in financial ruin in a very short time.

I think you're onto something in terms of their not having tested their assertions. But to expand on this...most of us don't need to actually experience (or test) the consequences of some action to determine if it's a good idea or not.

We can conceptualize, or engage in thought experiments, if you will. What I see, in terms of people like this woman, is that they can't actually play with the "what-ifs" in their minds. That's a very dangerous position to be in.

If the only way to determine whether you can swim across a river is to jump in and try, you probably won't survive very long. If you're able to think through all the factors in your mind, you may decide it's not a very good idea.

You are correct. It'll be very sad if that woman ever comes up against a catastrophic illness. It's too bad that she can't explore the implications beforehand.



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BlancheSplanchnik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 02:55 PM
Response to Reply #83
84. yes, yes!
Edited on Mon Mar-15-10 02:57 PM by BlancheSplanchnik
"thought experiments"... I hadn't thought of that.... heh!

so, what would block someone (and also large groups of people) from imagining themselves in another's shoes?

Fear, of course, as we always point out and mull over here...... but I'm thinking of something else too..... sooo, I shall ramble on a bit of an intellectual jaunt here. Bear with me...... :P :P

I've (finally! ) just strated reading Dr Carol Gilligan's classic "In a Different Voice" and I'm already nodding my head going "YES! I see! Uh Huh, girlfriend!!"

I'm at the beginning where she's talking about separation and refuting the received wisdom that female development and identificatin with the mother at the preOedipal stage results in women's somehow damaged psyches due to failure to separate. Separation is considered the first big benchmark in psychological development. Psychology, being centered on the male experience calls this a liability, but Gilligan clarifies that identification with the mother results in core empathy. It is males who, as a result of gender identity formation requiring separation from the mother, fail to develop empathy......

Women develop in a world where their experience of life is invisible--society being so centered on the male experience. With little reinforcement of their own voice, or knowing, women go through a sort of dissociation period starting in adolescence, learning to disavow their experience, their knowing, their core selves. Perhaps empathy, being so core to the female experience (that female experience, remember, is scorned and threatened in an anti-female culture) would be at issue for some who, perhaps, have embedded themselves with the voice of social authority..... ? Also, probably some kind of hero worship, seeing the isolated, I can fend for myself, fully separated individual as heroic, symbolic of freedom, the icon of the American spirit.........

ANYWAY, I tried to make that as short as possible, but since it's on my mind, I couldn't help connecting it to the well known Patriarchal bias of Right Wingism, and their famous lack of empathy.
Anyway, this makes me think of how women do internalize so much negativity towards self.... and conservative women must really have to sublimate an essential part of themselves, in order to shut themselves off from their empathy so completely........

hmmmmm...... hrrrrrrrmmmmmmmmmmm
.
.
.
so there you have my latest ramble...thanks for your patience!!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:25 PM
Response to Reply #33
60. "she boasted" "she would not need help from anyone else"
I wonder if she would hold to that if a daughter got sick and there was nothing she could get without turning to anyone else.

These people don't even know their own minds. I'm sure if asked separately, she'd claim that she would do anything for her daughters.
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DeeDeeNY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #33
76. A lot of us can't figure this out
They are either too lazy to think for themselves or just totally ignorant or some combination. Very scary.
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Lifelong Protester Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 01:52 AM
Response to Original message
34. I want to join those who are thanking you for taking a stand
and showing up. I fear I could not stomach it, but it has to be done. Thanks from all of us!
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barbtries Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:49 AM
Response to Original message
35. thank you both
i don't know how you do it. but thank you Bjorn. well told. i read on the mudflats that bachmann called this administration "post-american." it is so sad to read about the ignorance and yes the stupidity of these people.
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AnArmyVeteran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:53 AM
Response to Original message
36. MASTERS of HATE: Bachmann, Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh & OReilly
Is everyone tired of right wing hatred and the evil hatemongers who constantly spew lies, deception, racism, anger, fear & rage?

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Coleen Rowley Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #36
45. fear, hate, greed, false pride and blind loyalty
Yes, these distorted photos provide a good image of the fear, hate, greed, false pride and blind loyalty constantly spewed 24-7 by those who dominate our airwaves. You are answering the question above as to why the lady with the three little girls and the others without health care coverage cheer for Bachmann's and Kline's special interests' approach which actually hurts them. Propagandists who push peoples' buttons, especially the fear, hate, greed, false pride and blind loyalty bring out the worst in them. Propagandists can manipulate and turn otherwise good people into monsters.

So knowing this, I think the answer is to push back in the exact opposite way, to encourage people to have and act with more courage, love, generosity, humility and critical thinking.
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Coleen Rowley Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:37 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. Bachmann constituent Dick Bernard writes on this issue
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Coleen Rowley Donating Member (59 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:28 AM
Response to Reply #46
54. First comment on Star Trib article is about us but very incorrect
Below is the first comment on the Star Tribune article: http://comments.startribune.com/comments.php?d=asset_comments&asset_id=87593572ion=/politics/local More lies. We were blocked and we did not have a minivan that was illegally parked. It's amazing the lengths of outright deception these people go to but the good thing is only 50 of 150 people liked the comment.


Bunch of rabid right wing kooks, I suppose -

No mention of your pathetic antiwar trolls that came scurrying by with their bannerfor "healthcare not warfare" - nobody touched them! Nobody said a word! I watched as they made their round and got back into their minivan (illegally parked) and left - knock it off!
posted by katninc on Mar. 13, 10 at 3:44 PM |
50 of 150 people liked this comment.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:01 PM
Response to Reply #54
62. "Nobody said a word"
Nobody except for the mob that followed us around for an entire hour that is. Wow, there are so many things wrong with that comment that it is hard to know where to begin, neither of us drive a minivan and we did more than "make our round", we were there for the entire rally. Sometimes I think these people are incapable of telling the truth.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:54 AM
Response to Original message
37. How did La Bachmann look in person?
I have to admit, I think she looks kind of hot, considering her age, politics and general crazyness.

Don't shoot! :hide:
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Grassy Knoll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #37
50. Oh Yeah !
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axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #37
52. I'd agree with you but can never get past her crazy eyes!
Don't you know the only reason we don't like these women is that we liberals "fear" a good looking & strong woman. I've noticed that the RW projects a whole lot. When they talk of take overs and fearing a political woman because she is pretty - that is what THEY do and what THEY think so it must be true of the LW too.

Cheers
Sandy
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Historic NY Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:39 AM
Response to Original message
38. Any moran that thinks health care reform takes their freedom needs a bitch slap..hard.
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NanceGreggs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:41 AM
Response to Original message
39. I hear an old woman once told you ...
... that you'd change the world.

She's a crazy old dame - has a thing about knights.

Says she knows one when she sees one.

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upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:45 AM
Response to Original message
40. What was the total area
is my first question. The occupancy density could be figured. Were there holes in the crowd? Are there pics? Google earth it -and see if it's reasonable.
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 06:02 AM
Response to Original message
41. The only reason Bachmann and her ilk get anything near...
traction is because there are not more like you out there. Without dissenting views, people think this is actually something to be taken seriously.

From my experience, about 1/3 of those who show up to such events are spectators, mainly wanting to see the situation for themselves, 65% are supporters and 2% are doing what you were doing, making a stand.

At a local "Town Hall Meeting", I asked questions, and my R Rep was confounded and couldn't answer...2 people in the audience got up and shouted that I was a "communist", 3 others told those two to be quiet and sit down...it often only takes one to make a stand...to get people to think.

Thank you for going, and thanks for the report...:)
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TxVietVet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:31 PM
Response to Reply #41
68. Like you say,
they can't stand to be confronted. Anything near the truth drives the real wingnut observers in the audience nuts.
There's an old tale that druggie limpbaugh was confronted by Molly Ivins in a public setting. After she countered him, he was dumbfounded. he does not go to a public forum where there is dissenting views. he can't handle it. :spank:
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rasputin1952 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:51 PM
Response to Reply #68
72. If Limbaugh does not have complete control, he is an incredible
failure. Literally everything on his show is orchestrated to make him look as if he were a Great Sage. He has the longest "lead time" for callers, and I can always tell when he's cut them off, he blathers on about some inane crud he draws from his, "hang up on caller folder". He's all marketing, no substance whatsoever.

I had heard about Molly/Limbaugh running into each other...I would love to know what went on there...:D
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Joanne98 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 07:46 AM
Response to Original message
42. Thank you for that. You made my day!

:yourock:
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DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 07:48 AM
Response to Original message
43. You have some real moxy,...
Edited on Sun Mar-14-10 07:48 AM by DisgustedInMN
.. good on you and Coleen for your efforts. I don't know that I could have kept my cool as well as you did, that's a pretty large dose of evil crazy to confront.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:20 AM
Response to Original message
44. A most excellent job well done!
K & R!
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Faryn Balyncd Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 09:59 AM
Response to Original message
47. Thanks for the great story.
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thesquanderer Donating Member (647 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:42 AM
Response to Original message
48. FYI: you meant parameters, not perimeters (n/t)
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perdita9 Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 10:54 AM
Response to Original message
49. Thank you for standing up for sane people!
Michelle Bachman is such an out of control maniac, I can't believe anyone supports this government funding for her farm but not for healthcare for poor people nitwit.

I'm afraid there are an awful lot of mean and stupid people in this country.
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Douglas Carpenter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:23 AM
Response to Original message
53. kick and recommend
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sam sarrha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:37 AM
Response to Original message
55. GOP is a Cargo Cult of OCD Wealth Hoarders, they believe that wealth is the Measure of Gods favor
Edited on Sun Mar-14-10 11:38 AM by sam sarrha
of a man, therefore it is a sin to tax a Rich Man/Corporation. the poor are being punished by God, therefore it is a sin to help them. and they use Mafia tactics to enforce their ideology to keep the money/power coming.

Psychotic Oligarchs think anything they do to horde more wealth is ordained by God, anyone they hurt deserves it..

the GOP is a Psychotic Cult.. their ideology Kills People, men women children in their quest to Horde more and more needless Wealth/Power... they are mentally ill

this ideology has creeped it's way into GOP mainstream Ideology.. Palin has a history of associating with these sorts.. i believe she was set up to be president while McLame was sitting around trying to figure out whether he'd craped his pants or not...


http://doggo.tripod.com/doggchrisdomin.html
"snip....Leo Strauss was born in 1899 and died in 1973. ... He is most famous for resuscitating Machiavelli and introducing his principles as the guiding philosophy of the neo-conservative movement. ... More than any other man, Strauss breathed upon conservatism, inspiring it to rise from its atrophied condition and its natural dislike of change and to embrace an unbounded new political ideology that rides on the back of a revolutionary steed, hailing even radical change; hence the name Neo-Conservatives.

Significantly, Dominionism is a form of Social Darwinism.<48> It inherently includes the religious belief that wealth-power is a sign of Gods election. That is, out of the masses of people and the multitude of nations, wealth, in and of itself, is thought to indicate Gods approval on men and nations whereas poverty and sickness reflect Gods disapproval.

(It was not until I read this article that I realized that this is a fundamental tenet of Dominionists.

Worldly wealth and power are signs of God's favor -- to attempt to limit or decrease one's wealth and power is to disrespect God.

On the contrary, God's elect on Earth are called upon to increase their wealth and power.

It is not sufficient for a man to be a millionaire, or for a country to have sovereignty within its borders -- a man must strive to increase his wealth as much as possible, and a Dominionist government's behavior toward its neighbors must be "invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity".

Furthermore, any attempt to decrease a person's or a country's wealth and power -- to take from the rich to give to the poor, to reduce military spending and power -- is a direct attack on God.)

If Secular Humanists are the greatest threat to Christianity the world has ever known, as theologian Francis Schaeffer claimed, then who are the Humanists? According to Dominionists, humanists are the folks who allow or encourage licentious behavior in America. They are the undisciplined revelers.

Put all the enemies of the Dominionists together, boil them down to liquid and bake them into the one single most highly derided and contaminated individual known to man, and you will have before you an image of the quintessential liberal -- one of those folks who wants to give liberally to the poor and needy -- who desires the welfare and happiness of all Americans -- who insists on safety regulations for your protection and who desires the preservation of your values -- those damnable people are the folks that must be reduced to powerlessness -- or worse: extinction.

What would a reconstructed America look like under the Dominionists? K.L. Gentry, a Dominionist himself, suggests the following elements of a theonomic approach to civic order, which I strongly suggest should be compared to the Texas GOP platform of 2002, which reveals that we are not just talking about imaginary ideas but some things are already proposed on Republican agendas.<60> Dominionisms concept of government according to Gentry is as follows:

1. It obligates government to maintain just monetary policies ... fiat money, fractional reserve banking, and deficit spending.

2. It provides a moral basis for elective government officials. ...

3. It forbids undue, abusive taxation of the rich. ...

4. It calls for the abolishing of the prison system and establishing a system of just restitution. *...

5. A theonomic approach also forbids the release, pardoning, and paroling of murderers by requiring their execution. ...

6. It forbids industrial pollution that destroys the value of property. ...

7. It punishes malicious, frivolous malpractice suits. ...

8. It forbids abortion rights. ... Abortion is not only a sin, but a crime, and, indeed, a capital crime.<61>
. . .

* Gary North describes the just restitution system of the bible, which happens to reinstitute slavery,
like this:


At the other end of the curve, the poor man who steals is eventually caught and sold into bondage under a successful person. His victim receives payment; he receives training; his buyer receives a stream of labor services. If the servant is successful and buys his way out of bondage, he re-enters society as a disciplined man, and presumably a self-disciplined man. He begins to accumulate wealth. .....snip"

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colsohlibgal Donating Member (670 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:05 PM
Response to Original message
58. Nice Work
My thought is is we just engaged and informed these people a big chunk of them will come to the light.

Meanwhile we all await Sarah Palin soon joining Michelle for a joint appearance, what a mini think tank.
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pitchforksandtorches Donating Member (288 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 12:25 PM
Response to Original message
59. Pitchforks and Torches should be carried at all times and everywhere -
so says the Ayatollah.
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Avidor Donating Member (952 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 01:45 PM
Response to Original message
61. Coverage of the Rally at the Dump Bachmann Blog
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unapatriciated Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:41 PM
Response to Reply #61
63. Looks like the Bjorn Against can count better than the rw can spell.
Edited on Sun Mar-14-10 02:42 PM by unapatriciated
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julian09 Donating Member (418 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #63
75. They can't count or spell
They hope to be on the tv, with who has the most outrageous sign.
No way that crowd is over 500. A lot of people were in back of her,
just curiosity seekers. The HCR bill, is not what a lot of people wanted,
but it's far better than doing nothing, their real agenda is to see Obama fail,
and kill the rest of his agenda at the same time, to make him a one term president.
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nickinSTL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #61
64. "Marist government"?
so...they think the Catholic Society of Mary has taken over the government?

:wtf:

yes, I know it's a misspelling - but it does make the sign rather absurd

and the citizens must "delcare" war? What does that mean? :shrug:
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HughBeaumont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:07 PM
Response to Reply #61
65. What does the university have to do with this?
http://www.marist.edu/

:rofl: at these fucking grizzled old pink relics thinking Brezhnev or Chernenko are still in charge. Stupid shits.
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Urban Prairie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #61
66. "Delcare war on Marist government"
:rofl:

So does putting their inability to spell on display for all to see, becoming a requirement to be seriously considered as a RWer?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #66
78. Solidarity with Dan 'Potatoe' Quayle, perhaps?
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ThomThom Donating Member (752 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:20 PM
Response to Original message
67. I guess they don't believe in freedom of speech.
or freedom to choose your health care
or freedom from being ripped-off by big insurance
or freedom from harassment
sounds like it got a little ugly
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nolabear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
69. Thanks for going to the front lines! We need more eye witness reports.
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NICO9000 Donating Member (574 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:43 PM
Response to Original message
70. "Why do you want to take away our freedom!!!
And that freedom would be what? To die in the gutter? You two sure are brave to go directly into this lion's den of absolute nut jobs! I know it would make me crazy to have to be around such obvious morans.

Are the pics in this thread from the rally? If so, it looks like there's barely a couple of hundred there, at least from the perspective of the photo. But hey, there were 4,000 there because they told you there were...
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:48 PM
Response to Reply #70
71. "Obama lies, babies die"
WTF?

And no, there's no way it was that many people.
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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Yes, those pictures are from the rally...
The one at the bottom shows the majority of the crowd, the crowd numbered in the hundreds but definitely not the thousands. I think five hundred is probably pretty close to an accurate number, those who claim there were thousands there are lying.
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Bluzmann57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 04:56 PM
Response to Original message
73. They threw out people with pitchforks?
And guns are permitted at Democratic rallies? Newsflash:Guns can do a lot more harm than a pitchfork. But guns are ok and pitchforks aren't? How fucking stupid are these people? I say that you should pack a gun at the next bachman rally. If they can, so can we. And one more thing, you have more guts than I do. Who wants to go to any bachmann rally anyway? Thanks for the report.
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donco6 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 06:52 PM
Response to Reply #73
77. That's hilarious, because I was stuck on the same thing.
Wait . . . pitchforks are not OK? But side holsters with guns - OK.

Still shaking my head there.
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awoke_in_2003 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 05:52 PM
Response to Reply #77
85. I don't see pitchforks...
mentioned in the constitution :rofl:
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Turborama Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-14-10 11:23 PM
Response to Original message
79. The 4,000 people attended" lie is caught on this video
Edited on Sun Mar-14-10 11:24 PM by Turborama
At 4:58: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x443088

I tried to see your banner but unfortunately they didn't seem to have filmed it.

Kudos for attending, I don't think I could handle it.
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sue_michaels Donating Member (1 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 12:11 AM
Response to Original message
80. You Are an Inspiration
Bjorn Against:

I read with great interest of your account of bravely venturing into teabagger territory on Saturday. And it inspired me to write a piece based on it.

http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/03/14/teabaggers-bring-actual-pitchforks-to-minn-rally/

I located a photo of your banner and attached it to my article, along with a photo of the pitchfork brandishing teapartiers. I was especially struck by your encounter with the anti-healthcare reform protester with no health insurance for herself or her children, who "proudly boasted that if anyone in her family got sick they would not expect help from anyone else, they would get through it on their own." Idiots like that woman apparently have no idea they are being used as dupes and they continue to act and vote against their own self interests, with no understanding of the consequences. That woman exemplifies the sad and pitiful state of our nation's current discourse.

But I have hope that the healthcare reform bill will pass. Even as watered down as it is, it's a great start.

I hope you enjoy reading my piece. And as soon as I can, at the moment I need some sleep, I plan to post a piece on Michele Bachmann's lunacy at the Kill the Bill rally.

Regards,

Sue Michaels

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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #80
81. Thank you so much...
I was hoping someone posted a picture of us online, I was looking all over and could not find one until I saw your blog. Thanks so much for posting that, I appreciate it very much.

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Bjorn Against Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-15-10 12:33 AM
Response to Reply #80
82. If you want to use our real names in your blog you can...
We gave up our anonymity long ago, people know who we are and you don't have to refer to us by our blog names. My name is Bjorn Johnson and my friend is Coleen Rowley, if you don't know her name Google it because she has an incredible story.
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