Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

From "Fired Up and Ready to Go" to "Tired Out and Staying Home" - HuffPo

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 05:35 PM
Original message
From "Fired Up and Ready to Go" to "Tired Out and Staying Home" - HuffPo
From "Fired Up and Ready to Go" to "Tired Out and Staying Home"
Joseph A. Palermo
Author/Associate Professor of History
Posted: March 7, 2010 04:25 PM

<snip>

There's been a lot of commentary about President Barack Obama's failure to construct a winning "narrative" for the elections of 2010. In 2008, there were millions of people "fired up and ready to go." But after a year plus of the Beltway-Rahm Emanuel strategy of never exposing oneself to political risk the grassroots energy of the campaign has been allowed simply to dissipate. Robert Reich argues that "if there was ever a time to connect the dots and make the case for government as a means of protecting the public from forces. It is now." But at this point, about seven months before the midterms, transforming Americans' view of government is a tall task, especially when many of the George W. Bush policies have clearly prevailed. The problem with Obama's "narrative" lies in the substance of what has transpired over the past year.

1). Those who wanted single-payer health care didn't even get a seat at the table, (even though it's the most fiscally responsible of the choices over the long term). And then those who wanted a "public option" or a "Medicare buy-in" had their hopes dashed. These decisions didn't do much to keep health care reform advocates fired up and ready to go.

2). Teachers and educators thought there'd be an Education Department in the Obama Administration that would move in a new direction away from Bush's failed "No Child Left Behind" policies. But all we've gotten is more teacher bashing, more union bashing, and more calls for privatization. Arne Duncan is no friend of educators. Just ask Diane Ravitch. And how can you undermine teachers' unions while claiming to be a big friend of organized labor?

3). In Afghanistan there's been an expensive escalation of the war that simply throws good money after bad. And the increase in drone attacks has only widened the war into Pakistan. It's far too late to begin celebrating "victories" in year nine of a stalemated guerrilla war.

4). There have been no prosecutions (or even wrist slaps) of people like John Yoo and other Bush officials who used chicanery to turn the United States into a nation that tortures people and denies the writ of habeas corpus. The Sunday New York Times featured a full-page advertisement from the ACLU with a series of photos where Obama's face morphs into Bush's to criticize the continuation of the Bush detention policies.

5). Every time some bureaucrat from the Obama Administration reports that the recession is "over" it only rubs salt in people's wounds. When local communities across the country are firing teachers, civil servants, and even cops due to the fiscal catastrophe, along with the steep drop in housing prices and continued high unemployment, it leads people to scratch their heads and ask if the politicians in Washington (namely, Democrats) are even on the same planet.

6). There's been no progress in passing the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA), which was one of the key drivers of union support for Obama in 2008. EFCA is the only measure that has a chance of slowing down the decline of real wages and living standards as America continues its long slide into becoming a low-skill, low-wage society. Everyone knows the Senate is going to step all over this vital labor-friendly legislation regardless of how many envelopes are licked or doors knocked on.

7). There's been no serious reforms enacted to rein in the financial services industry. The fevered trading in risky derivatives that helped tank the economy is continuing unimpeded by any new regulations. Between 2008 and 2009, the average Wall Street bonus increased by 17 percent, at exactly the same time just about everyone else in America has seen their incomes drop. The Wall Street bankers that brought down the economy have been rewarded for their colossal failure with bailouts and loan guarantees. Nobody who created the mess has been held accountable. Not Henry Paulson, not Christopher Cox, not Alan Greenspan, not Goldman Sachs. Nobody. Leaving people to wonder: Where the hell is Obama's SEC?

8). Cap and Trade? Forget about it.

So the question is: Who among Obama's base is going to be "fired up and ready to go" for the November midterm elections?

During the Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush years the center of American politics was pushed about a hundred degrees to the Right. Obama gets elected and tries to move it about a half degree leftward and all we hear are screams of "socialism!" In reality, the only group to receive "socialism" so far from this administration has been the biggest investment banks on Wall Street.

Former Nebraska Senator Bob Kerrey believes the problem started on January 21, 2009 while he offers up some of the stupidest political "advice" I've ever heard. "They made a big mistake right out of the box with the Inaugural Address," a New York Times article quotes Kerrey as saying, because a president who pledged "bipartisanship" should not have disparaged the previous administration. By Kerrey's logic I suppose FDR shouldn't have criticized Herbert Hoover either. (Memo to Democrats: Don't take political "advice" from Democrats from Nebraska.)

The Obama White House reportedly has 13 million supporters on a vast email list. But those emails won't mean much if you turn on the TV and see Obama campaigning for Blanche Lincoln. The anger among voters is palpable out there. Much of it is neither "left" nor "right." At this point, the Democrats have not only failed to tap into this anger, as the party in power, they're rapidly becoming the focus of it.


<snip>

Link: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-palermo/from-fired-up-and-ready-t_b_489217.html

Sounds about right...

:banghead:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
villager Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 05:41 PM
Response to Original message
1. about right, indeed...
Sadly. And the Collapse is hastened: Demo fecklessness + GOP malignancy, brings it all down...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
2. Best analysis of the situation I've seen yet
The question still in my mind - "Does Obama buy into all the Beltway wisdom of bipartisanship and going along to get along or has he been the victim of rotten advice by subordinates he should never have trusted?"

Maybe I'm naive but I think he's getting bad advice and doesn't realize how bad it's making him look. And the court jesters like Emanuel are shielding him from the feedback he needs.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. I Agree... But You Know What Harry Truman Said About The Buck...
He may still have some time, but boy is that clock moving fast.

:shrug:

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:20 AM
Response to Reply #4
23. FDR and Reagan both disregarded that advice, and as a result were re-elected
FDR continued to campaign against Hoover throughout his first term, and Reagan continued to campaign against the Carter "malaise."
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
roguevalley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 11:18 PM
Response to Reply #2
13. both, I think. I am beginning to think that even as a man who welcomes
ideas, I think he's pretty bullheaded and is loathe to change until the flames reach waist high. Too bad. he could have been a great one. And he is responsible. Rahm may not be serving him well but Obama chose him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
65. I, also, keep hoping this is all the result of bad advice from advisers with their own agenda
because if this push to the right is really in keeping with his ideals, we're screwed. There's a chance he will change directions if he wakes up to the damage done by bad advice. After all, even the idiot Bush finally got rid of the odious Rumsfeld.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
76. Obama KNOWS Rahm.
They are BOTH out of Chicago Politics.
He PICKED Rahm because he agrees with him politically.
Rahm IS Obama's Consigliore.
Rahm continues to be Obama's Chief of Staff because Obama approves of the job he is doing.

I do NOT believe that Obama is and idiot or a fool.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tularetom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #76
79. Well, SOMEBODY is an idiot or a fool
Because this thing has been a clusterfuck from day 1, and most of the blame for it is on the White House. Now you can believe that Obama is not an idiot or a fool and I tend to agree, but if he isn't then somebody is giving him this crappy advice. And it doesn't speak well for him that he is heeding it.

The republicans still hate Obama, and the Democratic base is not going to put up with the ongoing appeasement and attempts at bipartisanship. They aren't going to vote Emanuel out in 2012. But they might sit on their hands when it comes to support for Obama.

I'm not speaking for myself. I'll support the president no matter what. But I'm pretty sure I know where the rotten spot is.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #79
81. There IS another alternative.
That this chaotic debacle was perfectly scripted to bring about THIS exact results.
When you take a step back and look at the WHOLE thing (campaign to end product), it is elegant in its design and marketing.

For a Bait & Switch Con to work, it is necessary to keep The Mark confused.


"By their works you will know them..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
williesgirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
3. Count me as one of the "tired out" crowd. I'm so fucking disallusioned and disgusted. rec'd
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Catshrink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Me too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 07:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
10. Me3 k/r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
progressoid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 10:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
26. Me 4
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #26
31. Me 5
:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Supersedeas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #31
71. 6
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
peace frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 07:41 AM
Response to Reply #71
84. 7
"Hope", "change"? Not from this crowd. They talked a great game to the masses, and delivered only for their corporate masters.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
skyounkin Donating Member (722 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
42. Much agreed sadly.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
disillusioned73 Donating Member (963 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:58 PM
Response to Reply #3
43. ditto
+1
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
HillbillyBob Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #3
77. ditto
ditto
add in a bit of quite pissed off too.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
patrice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 06:37 PM
Response to Original message
6. k . . . well, you know, it IS winter too and everyone I know is tired and stressed-out by what's
going on.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
7. if Obama was on the right track with education, no one would know Arne Duncan's name...
he is a carney barker for privatization, insinuating himself into the public discussion. he's running this crap up the flagpole as if it were his very own start-up company.

disgusting.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 07:27 PM
Response to Original message
8. "..if you turn on the TV and see Obama campaigning for Blanche Lincoln". That will hurt. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ThomWV Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 07:30 PM
Response to Original message
9. The White House better be paying a lot of attention to Public Statements like these.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zenlitened Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 08:28 PM
Response to Original message
11. K&R, with sadness. "At this point..."
Edited on Sun Mar-07-10 08:29 PM by Zenlitened
...At this point, the Democrats have not only failed to tap into this anger, as the party in power, they're rapidly becoming the focus of it.


Truly mind-boggling, one of the most stunning political failures in U.S. history.

How the Democrats, during a time of genuine economic catastrophe brought about by conservative policies, managed to get themselves depicted as the Party of Wall Street...

... while at the same time allowing Republicans to seize the banner as Defender of the Little Guy...

Well, it's just astonishing. A clusterfuck for the ages.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WillyT Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. + 1,000,000,000... What You Said...
Amazing... isn't it.

:shrug:

:hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
kath Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:43 AM
Response to Reply #11
17. "...just astonishing. A clusterfuck for the ages."
a-yup. Sad but true.

I'm sooooo absofuckinlutely disgusted.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Lorien Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:07 AM
Response to Reply #11
19. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory has become a time honored Dem tradition
the party needs an overhaul.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:34 PM
Response to Reply #11
48. Barack Obama needs to leave Joe Biden in charge for a couple of
weeks, make a retreat to Camp David, seal himself off from the world and watch every video that was ever made of Franklin D. Roosevelt. He needs to watch the videos over and over until he is channeling the ghost of FDR. And only then should he return to the White House, fire everybody on his staff and start over.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:02 PM
Response to Reply #48
52. And some one needs to make sure that Rahm doesn't sneak some tapes of Raygun's greatest...
... which have been under heavy rotation for the past months over at the White House.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
MissDeeds Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:54 PM
Response to Reply #11
50. So true
It is indeed astonishing and sickening. Eight years of *, and now this mess. I hate to think what kind of country we'll be left with after 12 years of dismal "leadership".

K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dana_b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:18 PM
Response to Reply #11
74. so right and well stated
"one of the most stunning political failures in U.S. history"

a-yep! It is truly mind boggling and more than that, disheartening and scary. At this point, I am really beginning to think that what I am hearing about the second recession/depression that is coming will happen sooner than later (listen to Thom Hartmann this morning https://www.thomhartmann.com/members/thomcast.php) and Obama along with the rest of the administration will take the fall for that one.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
flyarm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 11:19 PM
Response to Original message
14. it is exactly right..and don't get me started on Bob Kerrey and his sell out of the 9/11 commission!
He is a liar and a no good SOB!

And yes the anger is real..for all those who try to shut us up here at DU..we the people are pissed beyond words!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
slay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 11:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. It would be very difficult for the Dems to convince me
Edited on Sun Mar-07-10 11:41 PM by slay
they are worth voting for. Their old "at least we're better than the republicans" is tired old bullshit that doesn't work on me anymore. Either run someone with a REAL positive progressive vision of the future, or I'll wait until such person exists.

*edited for spelling
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
1776Forever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Mar-07-10 11:42 PM
Response to Original message
16. I believe that President Obama has forgotten his base & left us at the door with Howard Dean...
And I have been very disappointed with what has happen in the last year and 3 months. I do not see the vision of change we can believe in!:hangover:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:06 AM
Response to Original message
18. K&R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:53 AM
Response to Original message
20. Regardless of what anyone says... I have to keep fighting
'cause I'll be fighting one way or another. My health care bill won't go down... So its either fighting the politicians and/or fighting the health care companies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 04:35 AM
Response to Original message
21. Economist Simon Johnson asked only half facetiously the Obama administration wants to win at all
I'm beginning to wonder the same thing- as it seems a week doesn't go by when the administration isn't busy alienating one of its key constituencies....

Increasingly, senior administration officials shrug when you mention the November mid-term elections. "We did all we could," and "it's not our fault" is the line; their point being that if jobs (miraculously at this point) come back quickly, the Democrats have a fighting chance -- but not otherwise.

It may be true, at this point, that there is little fiscal policy can do that would have effects fast enough; and monetary policy is out of the administration's hands.

But ever so quietly, you get the impression the Obama team itself is not so very unhappy -- they know the jobs will come back by 2012, they feel that Republican control of the House will just energize the Democratic base, and no one will be able to blame the White House for getting nothing done from 2010 on.

More: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/simon-johnson/does-the-obama-administra_b_487342.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
depakid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 04:38 AM
Response to Original message
22. dupe
Edited on Mon Mar-08-10 04:57 AM by depakid
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
democracy1st Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:23 AM
Response to Original message
24. Goldman Sachs admin and not a financial regulation in sight!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DisgustedInMN Donating Member (956 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 07:09 AM
Response to Original message
25. K & R
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 10:27 AM
Response to Original message
27. No more voting for me. There is no way forward.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
liberation Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 11:14 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. There are other political parties to vote for if the Dems don't feel like earning our votes
Edited on Mon Mar-08-10 11:23 AM by liberation
I have no problem voting for actual progressive Dem candidates. However, if the Dems think they can at the same time pull a fast one and field a moderate conservative under their denomination feeling entitled to my progressive vote, I will look elsewhere. If the Greens have a decent progressive candidate, I will vote for them. Period.

If I stay at home on election day, they win. The only way the conservatives can win is via massive voter apathy. If the Dems do not want to stand for progressive platforms. I will give my vote to a party who is not ashamed of liberal ideals. Maybe it is time to stop seeing politics as a sport where one puts loyalty to a team over common sense, and people should pay attention to the specific electoral platform and vote accordingly.

However, unless things change drastically (and I am not holding my breath, since it is clear that Mr. Obama is either too tone deaf or too dishonest to know what "change' means) this "retarded" liberal ain't going to vote to provide Mr. Emmanuel et al more job security come next election.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:13 PM
Response to Reply #27
35. Not voting at all - really, really doesn't help. Not voting for a Dem or Republican
and voting in someone else? Maybe. Maybe wake someone up? Then there is community politics that should always take you to your polls.

Cheers and chin up mate
Sandy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Well, will have a long time to think about it. If I vote, I will vote
for the candidate--not the Party. Obama has been he biggest disappointment in my voting history. He is like a Republican Lite.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
howmad1 Donating Member (959 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #35
63. When the SCOTUS gave corporations personhood:
I gave my vote to General Electric. I'll let GE cast my vote for me since it doesn't mean a fiddlers fuck worth of difference who get elected.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #63
70. I sold all mys stocks January 22, 2010. I'll be damned if I'll
Edited on Mon Mar-08-10 03:39 PM by icee
invest in companies who will control my vote. GE can go screw itself. With Immelt, they are anyway. But I get your point. You're right as rain.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bvar22 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #70
78. We did the same in 2006.
Moved to The Woods and planted a BIG Veggie Garden and a bunch of Fruit Trees and Berries.
Chickens and HoneyBees too.

Our focus has become local Humanitarian Issues, and finding ways to de-fund Corporate America and their bought politicians.

We grow a good percentage of our food.
We buy almost nothing NEW.
What we can't make ourselves, we buy or barter 2nd hand or salvage and make it work,
or do without.
We live well on a very low "taxable income".
Very little of our sweat is going to failed Wall Street Bankers, useless WARS, and corrupt politicians.

We are no longer "Good American Consumers".
Less IS More.
:hippie:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:23 PM
Response to Reply #78
80. Good man. I may be too old for that. I wish I would have done that.
About, god, maybe 30 years ago this guy came to our house to sell us carpet. A huge bulky man who seem a little slow, but was a great salesman. We bought the carpet from him. While we were at the dining room table talking, I asked him if he lived around here. He said, no, he came down during the week from northern california, where he and his wife had a farm with some acrerage. They raised their own food, had their own livestock, their own water wells, etc. They stayed at home almost all the time. The only thing they had to pay were property and income taxes. I didn't know enough then to envy him. I do now. And you too. Good move.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #78
89. Ahh that is my DREAM to do (move to the woods)
my parents have and have well stocked lake and land that could be turned into meeting our needs.

Other than that we too buy second hand and make do without a lot. A family with 3 children (1 now grown) living on 1 income - no c/c's, no car loans, just our modest home and basic living expenses.
I've never been a Good American Consumer except when I buy American. FYI - Angel Soft TP is union made as is Brawny paper towels. Hubby works in the factory here in the South that is all Union.
Cheers
Sandy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
axollot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #63
90. SCOTUS gave them person-hood a long time ago - they handed it all over
tho recently in the Citizens United case. Thom Hartmann has excellent books on corporate-person-hood. Reading one atm but it's being revised to add that recent case and it's effect it will have on US elections.
Cheers
Sandy
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
40. I'm not quiting so easy...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
icee Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #40
56. Easy? I'm 64. I've been seeing this stuff for 40 years. And it gets
worse every year. We could elect a Baptist Minister President and within two months he would be siding with the Republicans.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
OnionPatch Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 10:56 AM
Response to Original message
28. The Rs rape and pillage, the people scream for change,
the Ds rush in and make promises, the people vote for them and think everything is going to be ok, the Ds do nothing at all under the guise of "bipartisanship" or whatever other excuse they can think of. The people get pissed off and vote them out. The Rs are in charge again and continue the rape and pillage.......repeat the whole cycle. I've come to the conclusion that this cycle is not a mistake and we're all being played. There is an illusion that we have some control, but it's only an illusion meant to keep us from storming the gates and chopping off heads.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 11:31 AM
Response to Reply #28
32. You just stated the Truth, that the powers that be don't want the People to wake up to.
It's all a facade.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Little Star Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #28
36. Yep!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:52 PM
Response to Reply #28
41. "..Ds do nothing at all .." Says the T-Baggers....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Golden Raisin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #28
49. Bingo! Bullseye!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Riverman Donating Member (759 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:32 PM
Response to Reply #28
68. Duh!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #28
85. I agree- And they get us to the polls every time by yelling gays and abortion.
I no longer believe there is any difference between the two national parties. The only difference is in the lay people of each party. Both of whom are being played by people who want nothing more then to continue their own quests for power and money.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 11:17 AM
Response to Original message
30. k&r for the truth, however depressing it may be. n/t
:dem:

-Laelth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Echo In Light Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 11:32 AM
Response to Original message
33. k/r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:04 PM
Response to Original message
34. K&R for a sad truth. --nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
SlingBlade Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. K & R ... Bernie Sanders and Dennis Kucinich
have some great ideas on how to fix this

Bernie Sanders
http://sanders.senate.gov/

Dennis Kucinich
http://kucinich.house.gov/

Contact the White House
http://www.whitehouse.gov/contact

Call the White House
(202) 456-1111

Call, Write, Fax and E-mail your Representatives, House and Senate
http://www.contactingthecongress.org /

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
uponit7771 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 12:50 PM
Response to Original message
39. Yes, lets make the perfect the enemy of good cause reThugs would be twice better...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
upi402 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #39
45. Oh, it's much worse than imperfect
Rethugs are batshit crazy, it's true. But we have no opposition party to corporatism. There is only a facade of democracy. It's a crisis and there is very little time. And it turns out that the politicians who we fought to elect, have betrayed us repeatedly.

American democracy has been betrayed, and some here still want to think that's merely "imperfect". Until your job heads overseas never to return, and your child is hungry, and your car is now your home. When it hits you it will be a crisis AND too damn late.

I'm sorry if I'm rude, but I get so tired of the snide unrealistic "reasonable" people calling us "fucking retards" for trying to prevent what will come. I'm used to it, been getting called names for my efforts for decades. I don't give a shit anymore. It doesn't matter now.

When we accept the fact that there is no opposition party, we are complicate in the betrayal of democracy and merely useful idiots.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Missy Vixen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:17 PM
Response to Reply #39
46. Of course, it's time for some "concern"
Those who believe that voting for the current crop of sellouts is a better solution need to rethink. The people of the United States can't take another eight years of Bush Lite, and don't kid yourself: Every time President Obama chooses to uphold another of Bush's terrible policy decisions (the latest -- reaffirming the PATRIOT Act. Was that something he should have done?) he owns them.

President Obama has clearly shown that neither his word, nor the people who worked round the clock and emptied their wallets to get him elected, means a damn thing to him. I can't remember a bigger political disappointment in my lifetime, and I voted for Edwards in Washington State's primary.

:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ljm2002 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #39
51. The problem with that tired old formulation...
...i.e., "making the perfect the enemy of the good" -- is the assumption there is something that lives up to the label "good".

The article in the OP does a very good job of debunking that notion, and sadly I must agree with it.

I did not expect President Obama to do everything just the way I would like. That is not how it works, ever. And I have been more than willing to still support him and our party, given the alternative.

But what do you do when "your" party and "your" president goes so far out of his way to please intransigent Republicans and conservative Blue Dog Democrats, while summarily dismissing progressives time and time again?

It is beyond disappointing, and makes me wonder what the real agenda was in the first place. In other words, did he really go "out of his way" to please them? Or was that the plan all along?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #39
53. That gets funnier ever time I hear it.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
GinaMaria Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #39
58. No one is asking for perfection
Good? If we were at the level of good you wouldn't see this much disappointment. No where near good. Neither good nor perfect are our enemies. Both add value.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
obxhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #39
61. Thats a boring and tired arguement.
At most Obama has been a delay on a few repub programs, nothing more.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
last1standing Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #39
62. "ITS ONLY BEEN A YEAR!!!!11!!!!1!!!!"
"It's the fault of those nasty gays!"

"You never supported him, anyway!"

"You haven't read the bill!"

"RACIST!"

At this point I'm guessing you guys have a custom made Magic 8 Ball that you use to decide which excuse to use for this extremely mediocre, and self-serving, administration.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #39
66. This is no longer between perfect and good. It's between truly awful and catastrophic. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Tailormyst Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 07:59 AM
Response to Reply #39
86. You are just literally regurgitating Obama talking points.
Are you afraid if you think for yourself you might have to face the fact that your hero is no hero and that you were and are being lied to on a daily basis. it's a bitter fucking pill to swallow, but eventually you are going to have to face it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
44. This is a good list...
Thanks for posting.

2010 and 2012 are probably going to be ugly.

But I've come to the conclusion that to solution is in revolution.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Gin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #44
47. I wanted to see some consequences to the banksters for
robbing us blind....so far....nada/zip.....I may sit out this next election....while I am searching for the change I can believe in....He keeps saying it may be a one term Presidency...and I agree...it looks like that at this point in time. (IMO)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:15 PM
Response to Reply #47
73. Not only is he going to be a one-term president
his one term is going to be little more than a third term of W.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:10 PM
Response to Reply #44
55. Alternet: 15 reasons why we need a revolt in this country.

15 Reasons Why We Need a Revolt in This Country
Government works quite well for big corporations, banks, insurance companies, military contractors, lobbyists, and for the rich and powerful. But it does not work for people.
March 7, 2010

It is time for a revolution. Government does not work for regular people. It appears to work quite well for big corporations, banks, insurance companies, military contractors, lobbyists, and for the rich and powerful. But it does not work for people

http://www.alternet.org/story/145943/15_reasons_why_we_need_a_revolt_in_this_country
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Goldstein1984 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #55
72. Revolution is becoming a common topic of discussion
That opinion by Bill Quigley was also posted here: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2010/03/07-7

The two-party system, or the two parties we have, at least, just don't work anymore. Washington is nothing but a bordello; our elected officials are just prostitutes working for corporate johns; lobbyists are nothing but pimps.

The biggest clout we have is as the production and consumption units that TPTB think we are. We can topple this system by refusing to do both.

I heard an interview over the weekend in which Arianna Huffington was told that her Move Your Money campaign could destroy the too-big-to-fail banks if it were to become too successful. THAT is where our power rests.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShortnFiery Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:07 PM
Response to Original message
54. Spot on! eom.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
joeybee12 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:11 PM
Response to Original message
57. Memo to Democrats: Don't take political "advice" from Democrats from Nebraska
Should I :rofl: because it's so funny?

Or :cry: because they are taking that advice?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
laughingliberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:20 PM
Response to Reply #57
67. +1000 nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pundaint Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:36 PM
Response to Original message
59. If we don't vote non-performing incumbents (98%) out of office WE lose.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lunasun Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
60. My husband sez he will not vote again
I feel obliged to still vote - but local only.

After spending time + $$ on 'hope' that turned out to be 'hope to be like a repug or banker's friend' we are among the sit it outs + not another dime or second of time and stop throwing bones.
Many of his cabinet posts were the 1st big clue to us.

Sorry if that disappoints some but we ourselves could not be more disappointed !
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Mar-10-10 12:11 PM
Response to Reply #60
91. Suggestion for you and hubby: vote for yourselves
If you feel there is no one you can vote for, vote for yourself as a write-in.

Dropping out only re-inforces the current screwed-up system. But if you prove your vote is there, there is at least a chance someone will come courting for it.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
emsimon33 Donating Member (904 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:13 PM
Response to Original message
64. Got that right!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grahamhgreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 03:38 PM
Response to Original message
69. I'm fired up - to defeat the senate bill, get real HCR, end Iraqistan, jail Bush and the banksters!!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Captain Hilts Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 05:31 PM
Response to Original message
75. Ends up, Obama "would say anything to get elected." Not just Hillary. Live and learn. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
amborin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 06:50 PM
Response to Original message
82. Sad truth
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ShamelessHussy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Mar-08-10 07:03 PM
Response to Original message
83. obama was my last hope for american politics, but after this year of BS pandering to the RW
i am truly at a loss and will go back to focusing on my family and try to forget about politics, it seems like a scam from the cheap seats and i refuse to participate in scams.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 08:23 AM
Response to Original message
87. so who's part of the coffee parties...
the folks who are organizing, 50K strong, to fight for the campaign promises....

This board used to be very socially active.

As for me, I fight on. I will be fighting with insurance companies anyhow. So what's another fight.

As Churchill said, "We shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end. We shall fight in France, we shall fight on the seas and the oceans, we shall fight with growing confidence and growing strength in the air, we shall defend our island, whatever the cost may be. We shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight in the hills; we shall never surrender."

It was a long slog in WWII as well
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Stand and Fight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Mar-09-10 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
88. ... Kick. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Sat Oct 24th 2020, 06:16 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC