Thinking about suicides, my heart goes out to all that hurt how can we as a society help?

[demtenjeep]

With the recent two suicides in "celebredom" how much they must hurt to take their own lives.


I did not have the best teen experience and I have some health issues that cause me to wonder at times how much easier it would be to not be in pain, but I just could not do this.


I guess my fear of physical pain is stronger than any emotional pain I feel. I also think about those that would be left behind and the mess it would create.

My heart goes out to all teens and well, everyone that feels so lost.

What can we do to help? How can we stop this?

I had a teen that I know attempt this (by cutting) two weeks ago. Obviously she did not succeed and now she is back in this cruel world acting like nothing happened. She puts on a stronger face to most everyone but I worry that she will try again.

I am just at a loss for many reasons.

How do people feel so badly so fast?
Are there warning signs to learn to recognize?
If one tries to end their life and is not successful, will more attempts be made?
What can we do as a society to help those that feel there is nothing else?


This issue just breaks my heart.

[demtenjeep]

1. some information.

Which Kids Are at Risk for Suicide?
It can be hard to remember how it felt to be a teen, caught in that gray area between childhood and adulthood. Sure, it's a time of tremendous possibility but it can also be a period of great confusion and anxiety. There's pressure to fit in socially, to perform academically, and to act responsibly. There's the awakening of sexual feelings, a growing self-identity, and a need for autonomy that often conflicts with the rules and expectations set by others.

A teen with an adequate support network of friends, family, religious affiliations, peer groups, or extracurricular activities may have an outlet to deal with everyday frustrations. But many teens don't believe they have that, and feel disconnected and isolated from family and friends. These teens are at increased risk for suicide.

Factors that increase the risk of suicide among teens include:

a psychological disorder, especially depression, bipolar disorder, and alcohol and drug use (in fact, approximately 95% of people who die by suicide have a psychological disorder at the time of death)
feelings of distress, irritability, or agitation
feelings of hopelessness and worthlessness that often accompany depression (a teen, for example, who experiences repeated failures at school, who is overwhelmed by violence at home, or who is isolated from peers is likely to experience such feelings)
a previous suicide attempt
a family history of depression or suicide (depressive illnesses may have a genetic component, so some teens may be predisposed to suffer major depression)
physical or sexual abuse
lack of a support network, poor relationships with parents or peers, and feelings of social isolation
dealing with homosexuality in an unsupportive family or community or hostile school environment

http://kidshealth.org/parent/emotions/behavior/suicide.html#

[havocmom]

2. What can we do to help? Maybe pay attention and reach out to others

It would probably be easier to help build a society where people did not feel so alone and hopeless than to mend the already broken, but we have the broken among us and we have to help WHILE building that better society. We can lead by example.

Difficult you may say, but think: If each of us worked on our little corner of society, within the circle of people we encounter... if we all tried to slow down, be human and humane to EVERYONE we encounter, might we just improve life for a few people?

When you ask how someone is, do you really listen to the answer? Do you really look at that person? Does there body language say something that conflicts with the perfunctory answer their words give Have you ever just stopped what you were doing and said, even to a very casual acquaintance, 'Hey, I was just going to stop for coffee (tea, juice, hell a glass of water works) would you care to join me for a few minutes?'

Might be amazed. And you may never know that, like the straw that could break a camel's back, a few words of genuine caring might just be the feather that tips the scale back to life.

I was once saved by a curious coyote who just came up to where I sat, sobbing and ready to throw in the towel. The damned trickster dog just stopped, sat down and looked at me, really looked and wondered what was up. Believe it or not, he eventually made me laugh and that made me see a flicker of light. He sat while I talked, and said how insane it was to tell my pain to a coyote. He just sat, sometimes moving his head. But he stopped and he listened, and he did not judge. He let me be what I needed to be at that moment, but he did not let me be alone.

And then the sun came up.

We can all be agents of mystery and conduits of transformation. Opportunities abound. We just need to stop along our route sometimes and just sit with someone to make a difference. Trickster taught me a most important lesson. No matter how busy I was, or how in need of earning my daily bunny, there is great importance to just stopping and being present for someone else.

If enough of us work at being aware, being present, being a light to help someone find the resources that could help, it is possible we can eventually be aware of enough pain to have an impact on lessening it.

FWIW

[demtenjeep]

4. Thank you for that

I plan to make it my mission to really listen and look when I ask "how are you" I want to be proactive and make a difference.

[Political_Junkie]

3. It's been heavy on my heart too.

My son lost five friends to suicide growing up and, despite us having a very close relationship, him and his friends decided after the first one to keep it between themselves. They never spoke to anyone about it until years later. He now has severe anxiety and has a hard time dealing with the death of anyone, close to him or not. When he finally confided in me last year, he told me that he had often thought of suicide himself, because the pain of losing his friends was so great. I wonder if him and his friends had been able to talk to someone when this was happening if maybe they wouldn't have lost so many.
"This issue just breaks my heart." - It breaks my heart too.

[demtenjeep]

5. compassion is what we need, not this divide that the political climate is creating

we don't have enough in this world

[havocmom]

6. absolutely. Those in power thrive in an atmosphere where we are isolated from each other

When people are alone they are vulnerable and it takes less to keep them in line and keep they feeling helpless. Those at the top profit from such a society. But the PEOPLE are dying of loneliness.

[Mike K]

15. Very true.

And to carry that premise even further the isolation is not limited to opposing social classes but exists at all levels of American society and is examined in depth in Dr. Erich Fromm's 1950s classic book, Escape From Freedom. Most of what Dr. Fromm has to say about the phenomenon was prognosticative but each time I re-visit this enlightening book I am more amazed at how accurate and insightful was his vision of the future.

Fromm refers to the isolation in your reference as alienation, which he attributes to bureaucratic mechanization and technological advancement, all of which diminishes the need for interpersonal contact and group social activities. One outstanding example of this detachment from person-to-person contact is the all-too-familiar telephone voice-mail, the answering machine and the often endless "Press One for. . ." robotization, which not only deprives someone of a job but deprives us all of contact with other human beings -- even if it's just indifferent telephone operators and receptionists.

The advent of television has contributed significantly to the reduction in human-to-human contact, a phenomenon accurately predicted in Marshall McLuhan's 1960s book, The Medium Is The Message. But by far the most isolating element of all has been the Internet which is gradually eliminating the need to leave the confines of home and eventually will make obsolete shopping malls, libraries, classrooms, offices, and more. An entrepreneur in my area is about to launch an on-line grocery shopping service which will eliminate contact with other shoppers, the fellow who slices the ham and the check-out person.

It's getting lonelier every day.

[havocmom]

20. thanks for the book recommendation

and for stating it so eloquently. I am one of those (questionably) lucky people who see so many connections that it makes it all to easy to see where things are headed. Cassandra's apprentice, so to speak. Wish it weren't so sometimes. Wish for the blinders so many happier people seem to be blessed with.

But I strip it down to the simple form. Yes, alienation, and so many reasons for it have evolved through our social and economic structures. The latter, being not just money/class and the resources available to each, but about how we earn our daily nut and how removed from the natural world we were made to exist in most of us must, by economics, be.

And I sit, in a dark room in a very small village in a very remote part of a very large nation, typing this to all the unknown strangers, some of whom are friends. If one can write something which resonates and stirs some light in me, they have given a gift, but they will not know that unless I tell them somehow.

People... please, when you receive a gift, acknowledge it, whether to the giver or someone down the path of your life. Reach out. Do not let the human part of you die for lack of meaningful contact.

And when you see another in danger of that, hold up light for that person and say: Today is not what forever feels like. There will be better moments to cling to, if you just have the courage to hold out through your dark night. Reach for my hand. I have been in your dark place. I know loneliness and hopelessness. Someone held a light for me. I was passed a torch and I hold it for you. You will hold it for someone and we will be human beings, not just humans doing.

[havocmom]

22. Something else which I have always maintained: porches are important

I truly believe we became less as a society when more and more houses got built without porches.

People used to sit on porches. Other people would stroll by. People would talk, stay in touch. Old people on porches kept an eye out for the kids out playing.

Kids out playing. Think about that just a bit. We were ALWAYS out playing, racing around, up a tree or engaged in some annoying bit of joyous noise. How many of us see kids doing that anymore at all?

Of course, porches got left off houses because more houses could be built for less if they just left the porches off. Economy. Money. Squeezing the last possible penny, regardless of how it affected human need, human health, human beings.

Porches. We really started circling the drain as a culture with the loss of porches.

[seabeyond]

28. there is a chain reaction from the young. it is pretty known and now a days

most schools will do group and individual counseling when there is a teen suicide. always watch and talk and listen to teen when a friend commits suicide

[Jamastiene]

7. Sometimes, the best thing you can do is listen to them.

I don't mean just sit there and pretend to care, really listen to them and have a conversation.

Don't judge them. Just listen and try to figure out what you can do to help that individual. Sometimes, you can help. Sometimes, you cannot, but you can still give them someone to go to who will listen to them. It made the difference for me.

I tried suicide 3 times as a teenager. One time was almost successful. After that, still I suffered, but I did meet someone who would listen to me and not judge me. I still suffered horribly, but I had someone to go to. That made a big difference.

I'm just glad today I have Zoloft. It's the only one that has ever worked for me, besides weed. If they legalized weed, it actually works much better. Of course, they keep that illegal though.

As a society, the best thing we can do is stop being so hard hearted and closed minded.

Our society still thinks in binary patterns: you gotta be either this or that, left or right, up or down, gay or straight (and God help you if you are gay, you'll be pummeled and condemned to Hell in a heartbeat), male or female, the list goes on.

THAT is one major factor in why so many people lose hope. It's all the judgmental assholes around them. Get anyone who is depressed away from judgmental, hard hearted assholes. That's the LAST thing they need.

All three of my suicide attempts happened after being cornered by people like that. Once I found a support network that did not include those predatory right wing sadists in the county mental health torture chamber down here, I started coping better.

I'm glad to be alive now that I've finally found relief from what turned out to be clinical depression and PTSD. All those misdiagnoses and all those judgmental assholes at the county mental health department got it wrong. It took one kind college vice president who befriended me then sent me to a local domestic abuse/rape crisis counseling center.

After that, the recommendation was to keep trying until my doctor found an antidepressant that worked and some therapy. The lady listened to me and talked about politics with me, at one point. Lo and behold, guess what? She was a real true to life liberal Democrat (not the usual "what passes for Democrat" in this shit hole state). I got along with her.

Unfortunately, she died one morning before our appointment. I actually went in and they had just gotten the news from the police that she was found dead while letting her dogs go in the backyard that morning. She always waited on the steps for them. They found her dead, sitting on the steps, watching out for her dogs. She died doing something she loved and enjoyed; caring for other living beings on this planet. If only there were more in the world like her.

As sad as that is, she had already helped me enough to face that and move on without thinking about suicide again. Sure, it was sad, but I learned a lot from her. I was able to use what she taught me. That's how good she was. So, people can make a difference if they do it right. There is a right way and a wrong way. She did it the right way obviously. I felt like she was an angel to me in some way. I never have forgotten her or some of the things she taught me about our society and about people.

So many in our local mental health department do it allllll wrong. As small as this town is, two teenagers walked out in front of trains (to commit suicide) in 1998 and 1999. They are not the only ones. I know of three or four just from my senior year in high school who killed themselves as well. After the teen suicides over in Hamlet at the train tracks, more clinics other than the county mental health department opened up here. It has made a difference.

There is a lot we can do to make a difference both as individuals and as a society. The first step is to stop being so hard hearted as a society and so caught up in our own lives as individuals that we cannot listen to someone who needs to be heard.

[demtenjeep]

9. I appreciate you and your post

"There is a lot we can do to make a difference both as individuals and as a society. The first step is to stop being so hard hearted as a society and so caught up in our own lives as individuals that we cannot listen to someone who needs to be heard. "


This that you stated I believe is key

[Jamastiene]

11. Awww, thank you.

It's been a long, hard road, but things are better now. A happier future really does exist. We just have to live long enough to get to that future. :hug:

[Ladyhawk]

8. Health care. Options.

I recently lost both due to California budget cuts. And some of you used my post of anguish to kick me while I was down.

You know who you are.

Fuck you.

[havocmom]

21. that not being judgemental thing can be tricky

and it can also be a two way street.

One thing that finally helped me was arriving at the decision that people could devalue me all they wanted, but that was not as important as whether I valued myself or devalued myself. When I decided I valued myself enough to really do the work to get better, the teacher I needed showed up and I got better.

FWIW

[Ladyhawk]

25. The antagonistic responses to the post I made about my situation...

...were inexcusable.

That's all I was trying to say.

Your post makes me wince a bit because you assume you know what has happened in my life and how I've responded to it.

[havocmom]

31. You and I had a long period of PMs some time ago

You may have forgotten that I know more than you think. I am aware of some of your responses.

[SoCalDem]

10. Two of our sons battled teen depression, and thankfully both survived it.

They did have counseling which helped some, but we also found that sincere talks with them helped a lot too..

They are both 30-somethings and have thanked us for helping them put perspective into their teen-lives..and how many things we told them would happen...did!

Like:

Those people you think are so cool, and who treat you like shit sometimes..and make you feel insignificant.. well they are uneasy in their own skin too..and in 10 years, you may have to really have to think hard to even remember some of their names..

Teens think that everyone is judging them and looking at them and laughing at them, but other teens think the same thing about themselves....and everyone's too busy worrying about what everyone thinks about them, to really pay all that much attention to you :)

There are mean people everywhere..in school..in the adult world.. Spend less time fixating on the people who are "mean" to you, and more time with people who are not mean, and the mean ones lose their power..

The years 13-18 are but 7% (using 75 yrs as a basis ) of your life, so just tick them off and get them behind you (if they are painful), and "graduate" to the other 93% of your life that will truly be your own.. we used a "day" as the measure.. 24 hrs = 1440 minutes.. 7% of that is 100 minutes...less than 2 hours..

[demtenjeep]

12. I am so glad they survived

I could not imagine how it would be to lose a child to suicide

[timeforpeace]

13. What do you as an individual intend to do?

[demtenjeep]

16. I will listen WITH interest

and not just appear to listen. That is my first step. When I see a teen that may be worse, I will gently pry to see if there is anything else I can do.

[Donnachaidh]

14. TALK to the kids!

I've lost track of how many of my kid's friends who were so HAPPY to have an actual conversation with an adult (both myself and my DH) and just unloaded about everything that bothered them when they realized we were LISTENING.

Lots of kids have parents that DON'T listen, TEACHERS who DON'T listen - and many friends who DON'T listen. I've had a couple come to my house after they'd tried to talk to their guidance counselor in school and came away with nothing - because the counselor did NOT listen.

It doesn't take much to spend that extra few minutes in letting them unload, and giving them some advice on a one to one basis. And let them know they are more than welcome to come back and talk if they need to - with no strings attached.

THAT by itself can keep a kid from the slippery slope. They ARE the future - we need to nurture and teach at the same time.

[demtenjeep]

17. a lot of kids have more problems and issues than we ever did

many have parents that are not responsible.

[rustydog]

18. This is such a difficult issue. I've been trying to see the world

through the victim's eyes. Yes, I think they are victims. I just can't see how a life could be so bad that the only option is to commit suicide.

I can't understand the thought process absent medical reasons for committing suicide. I'd been dumped by the mother of my son and was devastated, but not to the point of suicidal thoughts. My mother passed when I was a teen and I did not have suicidal thoughts.

I become outraged and put people in their place who ignorantly say the suicidal person is taking a cowards way out are just too self-centered and want the easy choice.

Working in the health care field (in security) for over 30 years, I've seen the successful suicide attempts be it overdose or gunshot and have been there to help nurses and doctors with the unsuccessful attempts. Two of the worst were by shotgun and 7mm magnum to the face. Not pretty (these guys survived to at least be shipped to a trauma center. One was Thanksgiving Eve. He ruined his family's day, his day and ours in the ED.

I even received a thank-you letter from a young female who had intentionally overdosed. All I did was treat her like I wanted to be treated if I were confused, scared and thought no one cared. She was treated then committed to a psychiatric facility. A couple of months later, she sent the thank you to the hospital.

On Christmas Eve this year, I stopped a suicide by grabbing a female jumper in a stairwell 5 stories up as she released her grip on the handrail.

That messed me up big time. I still do not know what is going on in her mind. She does not want to live, she is young, attractive, middle class with parents who love her, but for some reason she is not happy with life and wants to leave it. So sad.

These people need help. obviously! If they do not want help, or help arrives too late, what then?
If you are bi-polar and manic, or in a complete psychotic episode, how do you accept or seek help?
If you, like marie osmond's son thinks no one cares any more and the treatment you have sought doesn't help, what is left?
My heart goes out to them. I wish I had the answer.

[Cetacea]

19. Opioids as alternatives to medications that often do not work

Every year, over 30,000 depressed Americans commit suicide. The fate
of millions of additional depression patients is far worse - they
live. Many tried seeking medical treatment, but were given the same
old non-effective, expensive serotonin/dopamine/norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor
products. No opioid. Buprenorphine could have saved most of them, but
ignorance killed them.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7714228

[havocmom]

23. the brain DOES need the right materials to function

chemistry is an important consideration for wellness. I endorse no particular med or supplements for all. We are individuals and one size does not fit all. But we do have to give our bodies the stuff that will enable our brains to work well so we can do the cognitive work to get better.

Just laying of soda would probably help some people ;)

[Cetacea]

24. Agreed.

I just wanted to add to my post that there is a theory floating around that some people have an endorphin deficiency and therefore the standard ADs will not and do not address their particular chemistry.

I thought that your post up-thread was beautiful.

"People... please, when you receive a gift, acknowledge it, whether to the giver or someone down the path of your life. Reach out. Do not let the human part of you die for lack of meaningful contact.

And when you see another in danger of that, hold up light for that person and say: Today is not what forever feels like. There will be better moments to cling to, if you just have the courage to hold out through your dark night. Reach for my hand. I have been in your dark place. I know loneliness and hopelessness. Someone held a light for me. I was passed a torch and I hold it for you. You will hold it for someone and we will be human beings, not just humans doing."


:-)

[Skittles]

26. when I was told of my dad's suicide

the first thing I said was, "I always knew he'd do that." Yes, it breaks your heart.

[havocmom]

30. Sometimes there is no way to help

No way to help the broken hearts left behind, save to be there for them too.

Had a dear friend who was a very good counselor. He knew he couldn't save them all. He knew the patients have a roll to play in their own healing process. He lost a young man to suicide who he really thought was doing better. It nearly killed him that he might have missed some important sign.

I listened to him, many times on this one. It really did a number on him. Finally told him, smart and perceptive as he was, he was still human and that meant there were limits to what he could do.

There are limits to what we can do. Sometimes we know the outcome and know no one can change it.

You have a great heart, Skittles. Broken though it is, your heart is a powerful thing. And I will kick the ass of anyone who says different. :hug:

[Skittles]

36. aw thanks havocmom

I will say that folk who have been through trauma (my dad lived for six days after shooting himself in the head; the third day was my birthday) - have an awareness that others do not - it's how they handle that awareness that counts

[PCIntern]

27. We just had a double teen-girl suicide pact in the Philly suburbs...

Heartbreaking and overwhelming...


http://www.philly.com/philly/news/homepage/20100301_Text_messages_deliver_news_of_teen_s_death.html

[seabeyond]

29. my mom committed suicide. i dont see how you 'stop" it. we knew the possibility

you do everything you can think of and still, they make the choice.

[havocmom]

32. "..and still, they make the choice"

The sad, but true element. Some cannot be helped. Some will not be helped. We can only offer what we can. We cannot make someone better. We can provide environment, resources, tools, and we should, but we cannot make someone use them to get better.

Perhaps the hardest truth to learn. Glad you shared your hard lesson with us.

[seabeyond]

35. so true what you say

thanks... for your post. but it makes me even more sad hearing people that take on anothers choice on themselves. or even angry at the person for that choice.

i cant be angry with my mother. i understand why. i understand in her brain, at the time, it was the best choice she could see.

and really

that is only the best all of us can do at the given time.

so i remember and miss and love all the excellent of our life together.

[Ho Tai]

33. I firmly believe

that the Hebraic ideal of a seven-day Sabbath is a real possibility NOW. It could be the endpoint of economic evolution. We're going to have to smash up the billionaires & hoarders & others who fuck the world up by having far too much personal "money-gravity." Then we can introduce MEANING into life -- seek knowledge of whatever really interests you, while harming no one. When people WANT to be here, why would they take their life?

[havocmom]

34. Good points. And welcome to DU

:hi: