Sooooooo what do you guys think will happen with HCR??..

[samrock]

1) Will the senate bill pass the house??? If so when?? what vote count??

2) Assuming it does.. What will be in the following bill that will go to the senate to pass by reconciliation???

I sure looks like #1 has to happen before #2 can..

I am still afraid when all is said and done nothing will happen and that will fuel a republican take over the the house..

[NightWatcher]

1. is it supposed to take effect in 2014?

if so, this is all a game, because the next repuke admin will erase it on day one of their administration

[samrock]

2. No.. if a bill is passed thru congress..

the next president .. even if republican can not kill it.. unless he can get congress to repeal it..which is unlikely to get thru the senate unless the republicans can get 60 members.. ( which is 1 reason to NOT do away with the cloture vote rules in the senate.. as someday they will be in the majority and we will want to use that rule)..

[tekisui]

13. If it won't take effect until 2014, Obama will likely be

a one-termer. If the people can't see the results before 2012, he won't get much credit for it.

[MercutioATC]

3. Dems won't have the balls to make real change, so they'll pass second-rate "reform".

Repubs are using procedural means to screw with the process as late as YESTERDAY, but Dems won't do what they have to do to get actual reform passed.

[ThomWV]

4. Fuck the Senate Bill

[samrock]

5. Ah yes .. fuck the senate bill

.. thats the same attitude that got us republican majorities in 1994.. if NO bill passes it will prove democrats no more know how to govern then republicans.. I plan to change my affiliation to independent should that happen and fuck both parties..

[ThomWV]

6. In case you haven't noticed there is a much better bill that has been passed by the house

Let the Senate take up the House Bill.

[samrock]

7. There are not 60 votes to get that bill to the senate floor..

That is NOT going to happen!!! It is take what we manage to get thru the senate or NOTHING!!! We can add a 2nd bill to modify the senate bill after it passes the house.. BUT if the senate bill does not pass the house.. We will have spent all this time and got .. zero.. butkus.. nada.. and we will see the democratic majority in the house go bye bye.. welcome 1994.. and no one will ever take up health care again in our life time..

[Bluenorthwest]

8. Love the caps and the rage, but the word you wished to use is

Bupkis. Not 'butkus'. It is a yiddish word, which actually describes the Senate Bill perfectly, 'nothing of value or substance'.
What do you think of this tactic of spending a full year begging for GOP votes, now that it is clearly a failed tactic, not one of them will vote for anything proposed? Still a good use of time? Begging was still a good idea?
You got bupkis. I think butkus was a football player.

[samrock]

10. Thank you for the correction..

.. I knew from the beginning trying to get republican support was a bad idea.. BUT I am not in congress or the administration.. You have to play the hand you are dealt..as bad as it is.. and the hand we are delt is the senate bill.. ya take it or go with what the heath care system we currently have and KNOW that after the 1993-1994 experience and 2009-2010 no one will touch this issue for many Many MANY years.. it is just that way it is..

[Bluenorthwest]

14. See, this 'hand we are dealt' line is bs because we dealt it.

A year begging for Snowe to play nice. It produced no results. It made Democrats pissed off, and gained nothing at all. They crafted the bill to attract Republicans, they failed to do so, now they want Democrats to adore the bill that was made for the GOP. Makes no sense at all.
When you are the majority and the executive, you are the dealer. Whining about 'the hand dealt' is hilarious, when you hold all of the cards.
And I just do not accept baseless declarations that the past predicts the future. You claim to KNOW that which you merely assume. many Many MANY. That does not make is so. Just means that is what you believe. Just the way it is, what a daft thing to say. As if these bills were handed down by nature, or by God, when they are simply made by us. That bill is not 'just how it is' it is just how those in Congress made it. It is not an immutable force of nature. It is a crafted piece of legislation that could be anything we wanted it to be. The Pacific Ocean just is how it is. A law written by people is not.

[samrock]

15. ok ok

a little deductive reasoning here.. after 1993-1994 it took 16 years to get the issue back on the table... If this fails.. you REALLY think any other politicans with any smarts will want to try this again any time soon????? We have to deal with the hear and now.. not what should have been.. what could have been.. We are ONLY at this point because for a short period of time we had it all.. a Democratic President.. a democratic house and the senate with 60 votes.. ( and even THAN 2 of the 60 were only partially on our side).. the odds of us getting back into this kind of political position again is very remote.. but ya want to kick the can down the street??.. throw the senate bill out and wait/hope for something better.. go ahead.. I am 55 years old.. I firmly belive that if we let this go I will not see a healh care bill signed into law while I am alive..

[laughingliberal]

20. Yes, the talking points of another generation before this is addressed is used to good effect

One problem. This is not 1993 and the insurance companies are shedding millions of customers per year due to their product being too expensive and the baby boomers about to begin retiring at the rate of, on average, 11 million per year for the next 2 decades. Their premiums have just about reached the diminishing returns level meaning new rate hikes will result in the loss of so many customers that the rate hikes will no longer be able to mask the problem on their balance sheets. If we do nothing we would see most of these companies out of business within a decade. That said, though, if we do nothing we can look for the deficit commission to come in and recommend privatization of Medicare. If we pass the Senate bill as is and pass no corrective amendment through reconciliation, Medicare will, slowly and incrementally, be turned over to the for profit insurance industry. Either way, we're screwed. There would be a slight chance of defeating the recs of the deficit commission but not likely given the amount of whoring for the industry we've seen out of the Senate this past year. The entire process in the Senate has been about crafting a bailout for the insurance industry before the public realizes they are bailing them out, before the public realizes the industry is in need of a bailout and while we still can be fooled into thinking the point was to help us.

[RagAss]

9. Your fear of a GOP take over will be realized.

[Javaman]

11. ...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7793507

[BigErnMcCracken]

12. Sorry

The bill as it currently stands STILL sucks. Passing anything or forcing it through now doesn't do anyone any good really. Sorry. Just my two cents. It's just all posturing, there is no real change for the better coming from this thing at this point. The failure has happened folks, time to go back to the drawing board.

[lurknomore]

16. I think Obama lost control of the situation

right from the beginning, handing it over to Reid and Pelosi. I think it's too late now. Heard his approval rating is down to 44% this morning. So much time has been wasted now ... very discouraging. He needs to correct the unemployment or things will be bad in November and it looks to most Americans now like he can't look past his healthcare goal to fix the economy.

Maybe with reconcilliation, he can get some of it passed? Frustrating !!!

[Donnachaidh]

18. oh please - blame Pelosi and Reid when HE is to fail for LACK of real leadership?

He doesn't want to dirty his hands publicly. So he does backroom deals with Pharma and the insurance companies, making sure they get what they want, and then hand it off to Pelosi and Reid to push his deals thru as reform, when in fact it's nothing more than an insurance industry bail out that will fill campaign coffers faster than it will help the american public get healthcare.

He's added a few things like regulation because the public is starting to get wind of his *deals* and his administration is crapping itself over the very real possibility that this may not pass at all.

And then all those future campaign coffers don't have money -- boo frigging hoo.

[bvar22]

17. What is going to happen?

1) The Democrats will pass something that they call "Health Care Reform"(The Baucus Senate Plan repackaged with Obama's picture on the label). The Dems will throw a BIG "Mission Accomplished" party in the Rose Garden with Obama, posing for the cameras and praising each other for how brave and heroic they have been.

In reality, The Democrats will have passed a Republican Health Care SCAM that solves few problems, does NOT lower the cost of Health Care, and transfers Billions (Trillions?) to the private pockets the Wall Street's incestuous 1st Cousin, The Health Insurance Cartel.
The so called "regulations" will be toothless, unenforceable, and easily avoided by the Health Insurance Industry ( whose lobbyists wrote them).

2)Blood Bath at the polls for the Democrats in 2010/2012.



In every other civilized country In The World, Health Care is a Human RIGHT.
The ONLY RIGHT that is protected in Obama's "Uniquely American Solution" is the RIGHT for Health Insurance Corporations to MAKE A PROFIT off of sick people.
Instead of a Right to Health Care, the American Working Class will have an Obligation to contribute to Corporate Profits.


Thanks, "Centrist" Democrats...for your "Uniquely American Solution."
With "Democrats" like YOU, we don't need Republicans!

* Would you favor or oppose the national government offering everyone the choice of a government administered health insurance plan — something like the Medicare coverage that people 65 and older get — that would compete with private health insurance plans?

Favor 82%

Oppose 14%

Not Sure 4%
http://www.ourfuture.org/blog-entry/2010010320/poll-shouts-message-massachusetts-voters-were-sending

"When given the choice between a Republican, and a Democrat who acts like a Republican, the voters will choose the Republican every time." ---Harry Truman

QED Massachusetts

"I am not a crook."

"I doid not have sex with THAT woman."

"I did not campaign on a Public Option."

[laughingliberal]

19. The House will pass the Senate bill, The Senate will pretend to start the process of amending it by

reconciliation. The process will bog down over 1 or 2 recalcitrant Senators (wonder who they'll use this time?) and we will get the unadulterated Senate bill signed into law and enshrining our for profit health care system for all times. After the recommendations come out from the deficit commission, the privatization of Medicare will begin in earnest as the bill will have already laid the groundwork for it.

Not sure the Republicans will take the majority in the House but if the Senate bill passes without corrective amendments, it will be a banner year for Republicans.

[salguine]

21. The American People are gonna get bent over the sofa again, that's what'll happen.

[peace frog]

23. Bent over, for sure

but on nothing so cozy as a sofa. Over the unflushed toilet is more like it.

[TankLV]

22. I'll let you know after it's all over...