Toyota vs Ford vs Firestone

[Stuart G]

Toyota is apologizing for unsafely built cars.

A few years ago, Ford Explorers had a tendency to roll over at high speeds. Some were hurt and killed. I recall that Ford blamed Firestone. the tire maker. and Firestone blamed Ford. It was ugly.
I do not recall Ford or Firestone ever acting in an apologetic way. It was purely defensive and each blaming each other for the problems. Perhaps others have another view.

[Romulox]

1. Google "party admission"--Toyoda is a dope. nt

[hlthe2b]

2. Before that was the Pinto with its fiery crashes and deaths...

I think those pointing with glee to the American brands should rethink. This is a lesson for the need to regulate all of the automakers. If there is teeth in those regulations then we may well see "less blaming" and more quality control.

[Stuart G]

4. Excellent point...we do need teeth to regulations, very large fines might work..nt

[divideandconquer]

5. Like 4runners don't rollover and 70's toyotas didn't have the same problem as Pintos?

[hlthe2b]

8. Of course they do... I am not singling out any one company as

better than the others. However, the pinto problem gas tank was unique and not an issue with toyotas, just to set the record straight.

[Mopar151]

37. It was hardly unique to Pintos

Chevettes were recalled for the same issue - I personally performed dozens of the recalls. And Chevy/GMC light trucks, from '73 - 87 (IIRC) had a much worse problem with fires from minor collisions.
Ford's recall fixed the Pinto - GM was never made to fix the collision problem with the trucks, or the allied notoriety of leaking fuel tanks from corrosion in the pinch weld.

[Brickbat]

3. Just because you don't remember Ford or Firestone apologizing doesn't mean it didn't happen.

So, you know, try again.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20000907/ai_n10139554/

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2000/12/20/national/main258587.shtml

[Stuart G]

6. From your link...about Ford.......CEO insisted his company could not be blamed

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4182/is_20000907/ai_n10139554/

first paragraph


WASHINGTON -- The CEO of Bridgestone/Firestone apologized Wednesday before angry members of Congress for dozens of fatal accidents that may be linked to his company's tires. The chief executive of Ford Motor Co. insisted his company could not be blamed

[Brickbat]

11. :shrug: You asked about apologies, I provided it. Toyota couldn't wait to point at CTS as the

culprit when its house of cards started falling apart.

[DainBramaged]

13. You can only provide facts, if they choose to throw a straw man up

light it on fire....

[Brickbat]

16. Ain't that the truth, brother.

[Romulox]

15. You should've taken my advice to google. A "party admission" is admissible against the party

who made, as an exception to the general hearsay rule. That means a CEO's "apology" is admissible in court as an admission of guilt.

[1gobluedem]

7. I don't recall Ford or Firestone gloating about a deal they cut to minimize their financial losses

Or blaming their consumers. Or knowing about the problem, not reporting it, and fixing it on the sly so they wouldn't mess with their reputations for quality.

[WHEN CRABS ROAR]

9. And did you hear about Ford Focus rear wheel lug nuts backing off.

Hundreds of recalls are happening all the time. I know because I managed a fleet of more than 500+ vehicles of all types, a lot of our time was spent moving vehicles back and forth to dealers for recall repairs.

[canoeist52]

10. Having owned all three -Pinto included,, I'd still buy a Toyota. But

I do wish they'd come with less electronics. Though I'll probably never be able to afford any new car again

[AngryAmish]

12. Chrysler for decades sold vans that rollover

It is the extended 15 passenger vans - very often used for church vans and the ilk.

They are very top heavy and the rear springs very very springy to support the excess weight. Plus extra weight in the rear end past the axles make them unstable. THey fishtail, turn over and roll.

Chrysler pay off every death/injury for these. They have for years. They never take a case to trial. THey have a defective product, known about it for year and do not change because it is cheaper to pay off the victims and their families.

[DainBramaged]

14. Does apologizing make it better? Bring back the dead? They did in 2006

and we're back here again.

[Stuart G]

19. Hears an idea...let's say a one hundred dollar fine for every car that needed to be recalled.

Perhaps then these assholes would design them better. Sure Toyota is dead wrong, as was Ford and Firestone.

so when Toyota had to recall 8 million cars, then their fine would be $800,000,000.



But if Ford and Firestone had been fined huge numbers like in the hundreds of millions, that might have prevented Toyota's behavior.

It would appear that prevention is stronger than recalls.

[DainBramaged]

27. Firestone designed a SHIT tire and tried to blame Ford, end of discussion

they KNEW it was a shitty design.

[Mopar151]

38. And their managers made the workers make bad tires

The Union workers protested voiciferously. OEM tires are notoriously crap, made on low bid. The Ford swing axle front end ("Twin I Beam") is well known for being hard on tires - you have to keep good shocks on them!
And Firestone signed off on Ford's tire pressure reccomendations.

[ztlore]

17. Did Congress subpoena Ford or their CEO?

I don't remember that either

[Brickbat]

20. What, is Google broken today?

Y'all "don't remember" about as well as the Toyota U.S. official.

Ford's CEO testified before a Congress about the problems.

[ingac70]

40. Yes. Were you born yet in 2000?

:eyes:

[hughee99]

18. I had an Explorer in 2000,

an Explorer Sport to be precise, which was totaled in an accident when BOTH driver-side tires blew out at the same time as I was merging into traffic on a major interstate doing about 55. At the time, after getting a new car (NOT a Ford) I received at least 3 recall notices from Ford. One about the tires (having already totaled the car, I have no idea what kind of tires I had), one about the sway bar, and one about recommended tire inflation levels. I ignored the first 2 since I didn't have the car anymore, but when I got the third one, I sent them a letter asking them to stop sending me recall notices for my defective car, as my car was already totaled in an accident because tires blew out and it was unstable in turns (who knows which one was the root cause). They stopped sending recall notices, but I didn't get a "sorry we designed a shitty car and almost got you killed" card either.

[liberal N proud]

21. The Ford Firestone problem was one model

I don't recall there being a deception factor in the tire problem.

The Toyota case involves many models lines if not all and is uncovering the deceptive acts taken by Toyota for years to attain an illusion of quality and reliability.

[bird2]

29. Good point made by another poster here:

"The Toyota case...is uncovering the deceptive acts taken by Toyota for years to attain an illusion of quality and reliability" which they used as the main distinction for a selling point against U.S.-based companies. That's the crucial difference we need to focus on, not the fact that Toyota had a bunch of cars recalled. Sure, most companies have and no one is denying that, so Toyota Corp. lovers, please stop implying that we are denying that. It's that the quality facade they use to criticize U.S.-based companies is a hypocritical argument, as this recall debacle and how they lied about it shows.

All companies have had recalls and have behaved with varying degrees of genuine remorse. We're not saying that no company has ever had a massive recall. But Toyota's behavior leading up to the recall and how they conduct themselves in the auto industry overall as the "quality leader" is the issue. Their recall issue involves subterfuge of UNPRECEDENTED degree. Nothing you can point to in the U.S.-based companies comes close in modern times.

[ingac70]

41. Other car makes discontinued use of that particular tire.....

It wasn't just Explorers. There was just so many Explorers they were on it effect Ford worse.

[liberal N proud]

44. "that particular tire"

Again, it wasn't the entire line of products and the company didn't deny there was a problem while trying to cover up the fixes as Toyota has been all along.

It's the deception that Toyota has been involved in more than the fact that their product sucks.

[stray cat]

22. So is everyone boycotting and demonizing Ford and Firestone for life?

VWs used to explode in rear end collisions but VW bugs are cool now

[DemocratSinceBirth]

23. What's Ironic About That Also Is That The Fords And Firestones Were Century Long Friends

And Ford threw Firestone right under the proverbial bus.

[Romulox]

25. Firestone is owned by a Japanese corporation. Corporations aren't "friends" with other corps.

:eyes:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

31. Are You Serious?

Firestone, Ford, and Thomas Edison were generally considered the three leaders in American industry at the time, and often worked and vacationed together. All three were part of a very exclusive group titled "The Millionaires' Club" . This was a true gentlemen’s club where one would call another in the appropriate city and ask him to purchase a building or other items for them without so much as a handshake, merely on his word.

The Ford and Firestone famnilies were friends for generations from the turn of the century until the near present when Ford severed all ties with them over repeated safety issues.

[Romulox]

33. Firestone is a wholly owned subsidiary of Kabushiki-gaisha Bridgestone. It's a corporation.

The people you speak of are all dead. They are not the same entities as the modern day corporation known as Firestone. :hi:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

35. Give Me More Credit

I know Bridgetone owned Firestone. But the children, grandchildren, and great granchildren, etcetera of the Firestones and Fords remained friends to the "breakup".

[ingac70]

42. The Firestones married into the Fords.

But that means nothing in this day and age. The Firestone family has NOTHING to do with the company any longer.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

32. Who dat?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ford_Edison_Firestone1.jpg

[Romulox]

34. Kabushiki-gaisha Bridgestone--it's a Japanese corporation. nt

[Gold Metal Flake]

24. Not sure I see the relevence.

Unless you are pushing a "two wrongs makes a right" angle, in which case you are on the wrong forum.

Toyota's fuckups and coverups have nothing to do with Ford's fuckups and coverups which have nothing to do with GM's fuckups and coverups which have nothing to do with BMW's fuckups and coverups which have nothing to do with Airbus' fuckups and coverups which have nothing to do with Sheering-Plough's fuckups and coverups which have nothing to do with the Bush administration's fuckups and coverups. Each fuckup and coverup is an isolated thing and the fuckuppers and the coveruppers have to face responsibility or We The People have to face institutionalized lawlessness.


Your personal brand preference means fuck-all to me.

[Romulox]

26. Toyota owners just want to feel good about themselves again.

:shrug:

[Gold Metal Flake]

30. I am a Toyota owner.

I also am a big Ford guy, having owned many Fords and Mercurys, both factory stock and extensively modified. I own three Fords right now and one 2009 Corolla. I have a Pinto gas tank shield that I got from the junkyard just to have it. I have engines and transmissions in my shed. I am a serious gearhead who got his first car at age 11 (a Plymouth). I know a little something about cars.

If anyone is looking to "feel good", STFU. Your opinions are worthless. If anyone wants to dig in and get to the truth, carry on with your bad self. The truth is what matters first, then the litigation, if it is warranted, can follow.

I am motherfucking pissed about this Toyota thing. I would NOT have gotten the Corolla last year if this had come to light starting in Jan 2009. But even so, our car has a clutch and so has the ultimate method for removing engine power from the road.

The fuckups of other manufacturers or political parties or the asshole down the street do not matter here with Toyota.

[Historic NY]

28. All Firestone & Bridgestone tires of the type used on Fords were recalled...

I had to take my GMC in to have them checked at the time as it was only a few month old when the recalls came out. There are still an awful lot of bad tires still out there some have bee sitting on shelves for years waiting for unsuspecting buyers looking for cheap rubber. I haven't heard of the problem continuing since with the tires & Ford redesigned the vehicle to minimize the problem.

[backwoodsbob]

36. why do this?

[DainBramaged]

39. If you had read her posts from the past couple of days you would understand

NOT a friend of the Domestic auto industry, VERY friendly towards Toyota.

[DevonRex]

43. Oh, so that apology makes everything okay? Even while they're still

either lying about the problem or are unable to figure out what's wrong? And even while they're selling a "fix" that doesn't even address the problem? And after they bragged about saving money on it? And after they paid somebody to cover it up?