Breastfeeding thoughts from a progressive prospective.

[SarahB]

Breastfeeding is something universal and natural. From a global perspective, most people are breastfed. In fact, globally, people are breastfed on the average of 3-4+ years. I'm not only someone who has been a breastfeeding mom, I'm also a month away from being an RN who will be working in obstetrical and gynecological medicine. In other words, I have a better than average knowledge base that I'm coming from on this. The health benefits cannot be denied- here's a list for anyone interested- http://www.promom.org/101 . My point in this thread is not to debate breastfeeding or make anyone feel bad for not breastfeeding. Many people have both personal and physiological reasons why they could not. No problem. That's their business, not mine.

My point is looking at this as a human rights issue from the prospective of a progressive person. I have participated in DU on and off for quite some time and I have seen my share of flame wars emerge due to the issue of public breastfeeding or simply breastfeeding itself. It's obvious that for many people, progressive people included, breastfeeding is out of their realm of life experience, interest, and comfort zone. It doesn't make it in any way wrong, nor does it mean that someone else has to bend to your needs when they are not doing anything wrong just to make your comfort level easier.

Decent, progressive people would not tell a gay couple they couldn't hold hands in public because there's ignorant people out there who find it offensive because it's out of their frame of reference or comfort zone. Decent, progressive people would not tell an interracial couple to stay out public because there's ignorant people out there who find it offensive to their comfort zone.

Why should breastfeeding be put out as anything other than that?

If it bugs you, ask yourself why? Get educated and learn something new for God's sake instead of taking what is essentially your problem and making it someone else's.

[TahitiNut]

1. We're mammals, fer krissakes.

I regard a nursing mother with a sense of peace and nurturance ... altogether proper and natural. One thing's for sure ... the kid wouldn't get any benefit from silicone!

My sole motivation for any kind of 'action' would be to enhance the comfort and security any such mother would want.

[stellanoir]

2. I breastfed my kid whenever and wherever I was and he was hungry.

Sure I didn't necessarily do it in the middle of a crowded room, just as much for his sake, my sake, and in consideration for the sensibilities of others.

I think it's a matter of discretion. For those years, I tended to wear over sized pullover shirts. That way few people even ever noticed.

This really isn't rocket science ladies.

It's just very simply not cool to whip your breasts out in public.

Probably the negative judgement vibes might even mess up your kid's digestion. Who the heck knows?

Just didn't feel right to me. But depending on the circumstances, if I didn't know a group of people well, I'd sooner go outside or to the car than make myself and my kid or anyone else uncomfortable.

Never would I hide in a toilet stall when there are always other options.

Yikes I can't believe how loaded this issue is.

Puritans and exhibitionists "R" us. It's silly really.

[TahitiNut]

6. Long ago, it was somewhat surprising to me how quickly it bacame 'ordinary' ...

... to bathe on (French) public beaches where the 'norm' was topless ... for both men and women. I could care less about 'cool' and everything about healthy and natural and appropriate. I can't really think of much that's healthier and more appropriate for a mammal than to nurse infants.

As a fairly healthy male, the notion of 'sexy' might've flitted through my mind for a nanosecond once and only once - if only because an emotionally healthy male should probably be wired to think that reproductive health is 'sexy.' (Silicone sure ain't.)

[stellanoir]

9. Well I probably should have stated that

I'm in New England, so people are a bit more uptight here than other places for sure.

Just don't think it's that difficult to be mindful of one's environs is all.

I agree with you about silicone. Ughhh

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

3. It seems to me there's no real debate.

The only people arguing it are just pranksters trying to get a rise out of people.

[SarahB]

4. Most of them, yes.

Usually these types of jokes tend to involve women, their rights, and bodies though.

Isn't it cute and funny how arbitrary rules (or laws) exist to impede on the choices women make? :sarcasm:

[ThomCat]

30. Yeah, it's hillarious.

x(

Laws that impede any one group or class of people are always a laugh riot. :(

[GenDem]

5. Very well put SarahBelle

I breast fed all three of my kids. I did it as discreetly as possible, so as not to make anyone around me uncomfortable. My three kids would not take a bottle, they were breastfed exclusively for the first six months, and after food was introduced for another 6-8 months.

My question to the people that find it offensive is this. Should I have held myself up in the house for 15 months until my children were weaned so as to not offend some narrow minded twit? I think not. I fed my children when they were hungry anywhere and everywhere. 99% of the time I was so discreet that someone right next to me never even knew.

I wasn't flashing my tits, I was feeding my children. Some people really have some bizarre hangups.

[Clark2008]

7. And I am one month away from being a breastfeeding mother again.

I really don't care what people think - if they don't like it, THEY can leave. I'm just doing the most natural thing in the world (although I must say I was NEVER kicked out of any public establishment for breastfeeding. One can be discreet and, heck, most people don't even notice).

[Clark2008]

8. Hee hee... my daughter must have liked what I wrote.

She's bouncing up and down in my tummy like she's on a baby pogo stick. :rofl:

Either that, or she's got the hiccups. :7

[yasmina27]

12. I'm so jealous!

Congratulations! I loved every minute of being pregnant, giving birth, and nursing. I wept bitter tears when my younger daughter nursed for the last time.

[JerseygirlCT]

52. It is sad to say goodbye to all that, isn't it? nt

[SarahB]

Congratulations!

:party:

[kestrel91316]

10. Thank you. Very well said. I have my own theory about the folks

on DU who scream about how disgusting breastfeeding is, and compare it to excreting bodily wastes - and it cetainly doesn't involve the word "progressive".

[Clark2008]

11. People say this on DU?

Dear Lord.

I can understand the gun debate, the smoking debate and even the abortion debate, but a progressive, anywhere, screaming against breast feeding? How ignorant.

[kestrel91316]

14. Yep. Completely insane, IMHO. Or trolls.

[WindRavenX]

55. regularly

The line of reasoning it's a body function (like defecating) so it shouldn't be near "food" :eyes:

[Forkboy]

90. They said as they added cream to their coffee.

:crazy:

[Forkboy]

13. I was just watching someone breast feed the other day...for a couple of bucks.

:)

[nini]

15. It's a problem because we're a sexually repressed society

If anyone has ever been to Europe and watched TV they'd see breasts all the time and you know what? No one freaks out, drools, gets upset, etc.. It's freaking embarrassing to see how ridiculous people here get over the human body. Yes, it's not acceptable in our culture to run down the street naked - but breastfeeding a child so they can eat is the most natural thing there is.


The fact someone flips out if a woman is nursing shows their emotional and sexual immaturity.


IT'S A FREAKING BREAST PEOPLE!!

[SarahB]

29. It's so silly.

When I was out of the country at a beach, I was ashamed of some of the American men. Some acted like silly adolescents amongst themselves because of the handful of European women who were topless. Men who were 40 or 50 years old too! Sorry, I think a man who finds the female breast such a novel thing at that age funny. Yeah, strait guys like breasts, but they're usually used to them enough by that point not to be cracking jokes.

Personally, I think the men who crack all the jokes are the ones who get the least amount of "boob time" in their personal lives. You know, the usual overcompensation sort of business. :D

[NewJeffCT]

56. "U.S. Children Still Traumatized One Year After Seeing Partially Exposed Breast on TV"

A classic Onion headline...

WASHINGTON, DC—As the nation approaches the one-year anniversary of the Super Bowl XXXVIII tragedy, an FCC study shows that millions of U.S. children were severely traumatized by the exposure to a partially nude female breast during the Feb. 1, 2004 halftime show.

"No one who lived through that day is likely to forget the horror," said noted child therapist Dr. Eli Wasserbaum. "But it was especially hard on the children."

<snipped to the last paragraph>

Wasserbaum added that children who saw the televised breast in Europe, Australia, and various other nations throughout the world were somehow unaffected by the sight.

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/30883

[Sapere aude]

16. I don't see how breast feeding can be considered dirty or sexual.

I certainly don't get a sexual pleasure out of seeing a woman breast feed. I can't even imagine someone who does. And I don't see it as the same as urinating or a bowel movement.

I think that some people have a hard time seeing humans as mammals. The idea that we are somehow on a level above animals means to them that we don't admit to ourselves that we conceive and bare offspring just as other mammals. We feed our young the same way to.

That doesn't mean we bring ourselves down to some level when we admit that and demonstrate that.

I agree that we should not have to be forced into some dark hiding place because someone else is not as evolved as we are.

[Desertrose]

17. Says a lot about our society when people find something so natural

and normal and mundane as breastfeeding a child to be offensive or repulsive or even worse, sends tingles to their repressed parts.

I was breastfed ( back in the days when "nursing bottles" wre becoming all the rage)... and nursed both of my kids and like so many others here...it was all discreetly done. Even nursed my second child at the swimming pool and no one ever knew.... except the other breastfeeding moms.:evilgrin:


DR

[SarahB]

34. That's how my family was.

My mom breastfed us. My grandma breastfed. It just wasn't any big deal. I think I was about 10 before I realized people had hangups about this stuff.

[JerseygirlCT]

53. Yes, my mom had everyone, especially her dr. trying to talk

her out of it. BF simply wasn't done way back then. But she knew what she wanted to do, and in her quiet but determined way, did it -- with four of us, eventually.

I'm sure that played in my mind when I struggled for neary a month to teach my second how to nurse. Any sane person would have given up, lol! Somehow there's just nothing really snuggly about feeding your baby with a dropper while rubbing the roof of his mouth.

But I'm glad I persisted, it was worth it.

[kiteinthewind]

18. SarahBelle, love this post! can we get some Recs here! I am a certified breastfeeding educator,

and we so need to educate the public on this. As progressives, who care about the health and well being of others, BF is such an important thing to promote and educate women on. My personal experience with my clients is that, when women KNOW all the benefits to their child and for themselves, most choose to BF. And if they choose not to, at least they have made an informed choice! You're right, there are personal and physiological reasons why they choose not to, and I, too, respect and recognize that is certainly their choice to make. Most women don't flash passersby when they're BF. That is just reactionary BS from people who have hangups about the human body. Their problem, not the BF mom's.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :kick:

[SarahB]

20. Thanks.

By the way, I want your job someday. I just need to put in some time on the floors first. :D

[kiteinthewind]

25. Funny, I am going to be going back to the floor, soon! The job I have been at for

5 years is PRN and I am currently uninsured (no benefits for PRN). I love what I do, but I am going to work Mother/baby and do some clinical help with breastfeeding vs education, which has been my focus with this program.. Not sure I could do straight LD. Too much intervention, women flat on their back connected to monitors and IV's, etc. and not enough walking around, changing positions, etc. I always think of it as 'beached whales', the way women are impeded during the labor process. At least that is what happens around here. Always intended on becoming a CNM, but never went back for Masters. Anyway, best wishes with your endeavors. Nursing has so many different aspects and paths you can take. Great career!
:toast:

[tavalon]

37. Me too!

I went to nursing school specifically to go on to be a CNM. Seventeen years later, I'm still working as an L/D nurse and frankly getting too old to want to be on call. Oh well, next life. I'm happy doing what I'm doing.

[kiteinthewind]

40. Exact reason I went to nursing school! I figure helping moms BF and learn to take care of their

little bundles of joy will make me pretty happy, too! Don't you get frustrated with all the interventions, given your passion for midwifery?
:hi:

[rug]

19. Would you say suckling on the left is preferred?

[stellanoir]

21. you must be a guy

It depends which side weighs more than your kid at any given time. LOL

[RB TexLa]

22. Some of us just don't care to see small children eating at all.

Breastfeeding, out of a bottle, off the floor, where ever they are eating. It's not my place to say anything to people about it, they have to eat, I'd just rather not see it. If they place small children near in a restaurant, we just ask for another table.

Of course children eating is natural, changing their diaper is natural as well. I don't care to see that either.

[Sapere aude]

23. You should leave and go home and eat. I wouldn't want to be in a restaurant with you.

If is awful to want the world to adjust to your prejudices.

[RB TexLa]

24. I didn't say anything about anyone adjusting

at all. Just what I would rather not see or hear. I don't care to hear people's music playing from their car at a red light, not much I can do about it.

[kiteinthewind]

27. Perhaps you should become a hermit/recluse?

Then you wouldn't have to be bothered by all these human behaviors, other than your own.

Just sayin' :shrug:

[piedmont]

26. What a strange world you live in. nt

[Book Lover]

28. And you have said that you do as the OP suggests

you remove yourself from the situation, rather than ask the mother to remove herself from your sight. I have to say that I do not understand a damn thing about you, RGB, that you have revealed in your posts here, but I do appreciate that you restrain yourself in these cases.

[Solon]

32. When you enter the men's room, and see a father changing the diaper of their baby...

on the Diaper changing fold out table, do you just hold it, or continue doing your business?

[RB TexLa]

35. Just wait till they are done. no big deal, it's not my restroom. n/t

[Solon]

46. Wait? Seriously, that's fucked up...

I mean, public restrooms usually leave enough room for you to move around them, and, to be honest, its not like you would be seeing anything you haven't seen before. Usually I see these "baby changers" at one end of the restroom, usually next to the handicap toilet, or near the entrance. I don't see what is so distracting that you can't do your business, regardless of whether its number one or number two.

[RB TexLa]

50. It's just being polite

[gollygee]

65. You think the polite thing to do is wait to pee until the dad is finished

changing the baby's diaper?

Wow. Please, feel free to relive yourself while babies are being changed in the restroom in the future. I promise no parents expect you to "hold it" while the baby is being changed. I really promise.

[uppityperson]

78. (baby might see his penis and be scarred for life) shhhh

[gollygee]

36. What about people who don't like to see you eat?

I suppose they'd ask for another table too.

[cgrindley]

47. True

parents who change diapers in public view ought to be horsewhipped.

[WindRavenX]

58. Again, you are comparing eating to defecation

they're not analogous.

[RB TexLa]

60. I know they aren't, but neither is something I care to see

Restaurants are understanding, if there are small children or obnoxious drunks near you they don't mind giving you another table.

[WindRavenX]

63. No offense

It's not about what you "care to see". You're being completely irrational--no one is forcing you to look at a woman who is feeding her child-- you can, however, be "forced" to deal with noisy children, which is where your argument again falls apart.

Unless you're being "made" to watch a woman breastfeed somehow, I presume you have the ability to look at something else.

[RB TexLa]

66. I don't care to have the small ones eating around me in any manner

I'm sure there are ones that don't make messes, run around and don't make noise, but there no reason to gamble with it, we just ask for another table.

How is someone forced to deal with children? Maybe an airplane, I guess.

[WindRavenX]

68. Well, you're being completely unreasonable.

As much as I dislike children myself, when I'm in a public place and they're not causing a stir (like when they're breastfeeding), it's a *0* issue for me and my fiance. If you want to never deal with even the mere possibility of coming into contact with children, try becoming a hermit.
Ciao.

[RB TexLa]

69. I don't have any dislike toward children, I really don't know many children

the small ones can be loud and messy, so we just get another table. The restaurants have no problem with giving you another table. It's not about contact with people, it's about enjoying a meal.

[Forkboy]

84. I really don't know many children

Lucky for them if this is any indication.

[Warren DeMontague]

61. You should eat in a bar.

Then you won't have this problem.

[RB TexLa]

103. There are only a couple of places we go where we have ever seen children

and only a couple of times we have had to move because the small ones were seated near us. It's not a big problem.

[frogcycle]

31. ANY objection to breastfeeding ANYWHERE is ridiculous

ok, I accept that societal norms call for some sense of decorum in some situations. But good lord, people, we're all born naked! Cave people didn't get uptight about whether a female was feeding a baby, any more than a gorilla or a chimp does today. ANy and ALL objections are contrived, made-up social "taboos" generally based on Puritanical religious bias. Or fundamentalist Muslim. Take your pick.

Men have breasts, and are free to expose them in public. Generally frowned upon in church, or in court, but certainly not thought to be "dirty". Females breasts are generally bigger, and have a function other than to break up the monotony. How does that make them "dirty?'

And the perfectly natural, beautiful process of nursing an infant - how anyone can object to that is beyond me. The same idiots would go "aaawwwwww" at the image of a litter of puppies nursing. Or piglets. But a human baby nursing is obscene? Give me a frigging break!

I would much prefer a ban on people's dogs shitting in the park than on babies nursing in a restaurant.

[etherealtruth]

93. Touche

[Sanctified]

33. My response has always been...

"Would you have denied the baby Jesus from his food?"

[piedmont]

41. No, just make him eat in the stable!

:rofl:

[Madspirit]

38. I Agree

I find it totally disgusting that anyone could disapprove of feeding a baby in public. I live in Austin. It's legal here for women to go topless...google it...and we have a legal nude beach. I guess I just don't find anything dirty about the human body. I find it heartwarming when women feed their babies.
Lee

[KittyWampus]

39. Stop this bullshit about the average age being 3-4. Only in impoverished countries

where women have little education or prospects for independant lives do most children get breast fed up to age 4.

Breast feeding is WELL inside my comfort zone, btw.

[kiteinthewind]

42. Actually, the AAP recommends exclusive BF for the first 6 mos. then continuing until at least 1 year

of age (at six months parents should begin introducing solids). In impoverished countries, the breastmilk is probably safer than the drinking H2O.
:)

[SarahB]

43. Why so angry?

Seriously, what's the point? Any breastfeeding I did past the first year was before bedtime (until 2- 2.5 years for me). I wasn't impoverished with little education or prospects. There's many educated women here who have done the same who find YOUR statement offensive. We find it empowering to not have to rely on something produced by a pharmaceutical company (that was free)!

RECOMMENDATIONS ON BREASTFEEDING FOR HEALTHY TERM INFANTS (American Academy of Pediatrics)

10. Pediatricians and parents should be aware that exclusive breastfeeding is sufficient to support optimal growth and development for approximately the first 6 months of life and provides continuing protection against diarrhea and respiratory tract infection. Breastfeeding should be continued for at least the first year of life and beyond for as long as mutually desired by mother and child.

I have no doubt they know more than you. Perhaps I'm wrong. Are you an RN specializing in this, a pediatrician, or do you have a degree in human physiology?

[noamnety]

44. Since when is the truth "bullshit"?

The statement was made that globally, that's the average age, and the statement is true.

The world health organization recommends breastfeeding AT LEAST until 2 years old, and beyond that, as long as mother and child wish to continue. I don't know if your attitude is coming from a sense that the US is superior to other countries culturally, or what.

I always link this in the breastfeeding discussions, because I am not so sure that having more access to consumer goods makes us culturally superior to anyone. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stan-goff/containment-and-diplomacy_b_35509.html

[cgrindley]

73. Since you're wrong and it's bullshit

WHO recommends 6 months: http://www.who.int/inf-pr-2001/en/note2001-07.html


Current prevalence and duration in the USA:

Li, Ruowei, et al. "Prevalence of Breastfeeding in the United States: The 2001 National Immunization Survey." Pediatrics 111.5 (May 2003): 1198-1202.

ABSTRACT. Objective. To address key gaps in the annual monitoring of breastfeeding prevalence in the United States, 3 breastfeeding questions concerning the initiation, duration, and exclusivity of breastfeeding were added to the rotating modules of the National Immunization Survey (NIS) beginning in the third quarter of 2001. The present study examines the current prevalence of breastfeeding in the United States using NIS data from this initial quarter. Methods. The NIS is a random-digit-dialing survey of households with children aged 19 to 35 months, followed by a mail survey of the eligible children's vaccination providers to validate the child's vaccination information. In the third quarter of 2001, a randomly selected subset of households interviewed in the NIS (N = 896) were asked questions about breastfeeding. Results. Almost two thirds (65.1%) of children had ever been breastfed. At 6 and 12 months, 27.0% and 12.3%, respectively, were receiving some breast milk. Non-Hispanic blacks had the lowest rates of breastfeeding initiation and continuation. Exclusive breastfeeding rates were low in the United States with only 7.9% at 6 months. Conclusions. Although breastfeeding initiation is near the national goal of 75%, breastfeeding continuation lags behind the national goals of 50% and 25% at 6 and 12 months, respectively. Strenuous public health efforts are needed to improve breastfeeding practices among blacks. Pediatrics 2003;111:1198-1201; breastfeeding prevalence, surveillance, National Immunization Survey.

[piedmont]

74. The OP wasn't talking about exclusive breastfeeding.

Your sources are meaningless, as they only address exclusive breastfeeding.

[SarahB]

75. Exclusive means ONLY.

No, you're not going to only feed an older baby or toddler breastmilk. No one said that. Again, nothing to do with the original post about people closing their minds to the truth or making others bend to their invalid arguments because it makes them uncomfortable. Boo hoo. A tit. So scary.

[cgrindley]

83. The OP's claim is so vague as to be meaningless

And I quote: " From a global perspective, most people are breastfed. In fact, globally, people are breastfed on the average of 3-4+ years." Just what does that actually mean? It certainly doesn't seem to be based on any real statistics published in an actual refereed journal.

"boo hoo. a tit. so scary" That's a pretty stunned thing to type.

[kiteinthewind]

94. NO, cgrindley, YOU are wrong

WHO: Exclusive breastfeeding

Breastfeeding is an unequalled way of providing ideal food for the healthy growth and development of infants; it is also an integral part of the reproductive process with important implications for the health of mothers. A recent review of evidence has shown that, on a population basis, exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months is the optimal way of feeding infants. Thereafter infants should receive complementary foods with continued breastfeeding up to 2 years of age or beyond .

To enable mothers to establish and sustain exclusive breastfeeding for 6 months, WHO and UNICEF recommend:

Initiation of breastfeeding within the first hour of life
Exclusive breastfeeding – that is the infant only receives breastmilk without any additional food or drink, not even water
Breastfeeding on demand – that is as often as the child wants, day and night
No use of bottles, teats or pacifiers
Breastmilk is the natural first food for babies, it provides all the energy and nutrients that the infant needs for the first months of life, and it continues to provide up to half or more of a child’s nutritional needs during the second half of the first year, and up to one-third during the second year of life.

Breastmilk promotes sensory and cognitive development, and protects the infant against infectious and chronic diseases. Exclusive breastfeeding reduces infant mortality due to common childhood illnesses such as diarrhoea or pneumonia, and helps for a quicker recovery during illness. These effects can be measured in resource-poor and affluent societies (Kramer M et al Promotion of Breastfeeding Intervention Trial (PROBIT): A randomized trial in the Republic of Belarus. Journal of the American Medical Association, 2001, 285 (4): 413-420)

Breastfeeding contributes to the health and well-being of mothers, it helps to space children, reduces the risk of ovarian cancer and breast cancer, increases family and national resources, is a secure way of feeding and is safe for the environment.

While breastfeeding is a natural act, it is also a learned behaviour. An extensive body of research has demonstrated that mothers and other caregivers require active support for establishing and sustaining appropriate breastfeeding practices. WHO and UNICEF launched the Baby-friendly Hospital Initiative in 1992, to strengthen maternity practices to support breastfeeding. The foundation for the BFHI are the Ten Steps to Successful Breastfeeding described in Protecting, Promoting and Supporting Breastfeeding: a Joint WHO/UNICEF Statement. The evidence for the effectiveness of the Ten Steps has been summarized in a scientific review document.

The BFHI has been implemented in about 16.000 hospitals in 171 countries and it has contributed to improving the establishment of exclusive breastfeeding world-wide. While improved maternity services help to increase the initiation of exclusive breastfeeding, support throughout the health system is required to help mothers sustain exclusive breastfeeding.

WHO and UNICEF developed the 40-hour Breastfeeding Counselling: A training course to train a cadre of health workers that can provide skilled support to breastfeeding mothers and help them overcome problems. Basic breastfeeding support skills are also part of the 11-day Integrated Management of Childhood Illness training course for first-level health workers, which combines skills for adequate case management with preventive care. Evaluation of breastfeeding counselling delivered by trained health professionals as well as community workers has shown that this is an effective intervention to improve exclusive breastfeeding rates (link to graph)

The Global Strategy for Infant and Young Child Feeding describes the essential interventions to promote, protect and support exclusive breastfeeding.

http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/exclusive_breastfeeding/en/index.html

:eyes:

[SarahB]

99. Thank you for the link.

I got sick of arguing with that dude. Some people are so hellbent on seeing what they want to see that they attack the truth. I think they're not secure about their own choices or prejudices, so it's just easier to attack the truth when it's right there in there face. Sigh.

[piedmont]

76. "Breast feeding is WELL inside my comfort zone,"

You say above that "Breast feeding is WELL inside my comfort zone,btw."

and yet you also say:

"Sometimes you just feel like someone should say: "hey, jackass, put that thing away. no one needs to see that. "

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=761450&mesg_id=774615


I have a hard time resolving thise two statements.

[cgrindley]

85. Learn to read

He didn't write your second quotation, I did.

And I also feel comfortable with breastfeeding in public. Infants breastfeed.

I object to self-centered idiots parading out their tired teats for their obnoxious 4 year olds. That's simply no longer breastfeeding but self-indulgent crap.

[piedmont]

87. Mistook the poster. No wonder the two statements weren't consistent. nt

[cgrindley]

45. It all depends

holding hands in public is okay.
making out in public is not okay (heterosexual or homosexual)
breastfeeding infant in public is okay
breastfeeding a four year old in public is not okay

Just because something isn't "wrong" doesn't mean it's not impolite.

[SarahB]

48. It's all about cultural relativism.

Gay men holding hands in fundamentalist Islamic nations- put to death.
Woman flashing their breast at Mardi Gras in New Orleans- fine.
Woman breastfeeding a four year old in a European cafe- not a huge deal.

Views of the human body and behavior can be so subjective per the culture one is in. I'd prefer one of tolerance with less narrowly defined lines. Personally, I think this benefits all of us far beyond just one mere issue.

[cgrindley]

51. Well, speaking as a North American

I could care less if gay people want to hold hands, but I don't want to see either gay or straight couples making out in public.

I don't mind seeing children in public, but I wish that their parents would control them better. I don't like hearing children at all. Especially if I'm somewhere that cost money like a restaurant or a movie or a museum.

A nursing infant is sort of cute, so I can tolerate that, but I hate it when parents change diapers in public. That's gross. Plus, most parents are so ignorant nowadays and just leave wadded up diapers randomly here and there.

Nursing children over 12 or so months is pretty much unacceptable behavior as far as I'm concerned. There's no reason to do it, and there's certainly no reason why it should ever have to be done in public. By a year old, children can eat three scheduled meals a day. Mine all did, and they had regular 7 pm bedtimes and slept straight through the night until 7 am the next day. Dr Spock did not do my family wrong.

[gollygee]

54. Yours did it, therefore all should

that's a good argument. *sigh*

My daughter didn't have any interest in solid food at all until almost 12 months. She was still almost entirely breastfed at that point. A neighbor put off solids until close to 12 months because of severe food allergies in the family because the doctor said delaying solids and breastfeeding longer would help. Not all kids are going to be like yours, and it's OK.

I agree that it's gross when people change their kids diapers all over the place. Ugh.

Oh one last thing. I have never been to a museum when it wasn't full of school kids on field trips. I don't think it's possible to visit a museum sans children. Nor do I think it's a good idea to keep kids away from educational places like that.

[cgrindley]

59. Museums and art galleries before 6 yrs are a waste

infantile amnesia will wipe all memory out anyway. You could get the same effect by simply telling them once a week that you took them to The Met and then describe the Egyptian gallery or whatever. They'd never know the difference.

And as sad as it is to say this, I fail to see any real world benefit of taking school children to museums. I'd actually love to see someone do a study and see if visits to museums result in any acquired long term knowledge or any higher test scores. Sure an argument might be made that museum visits are good to introduce kids to museums, but I see no actual evidence that it works. None whatsoever. It's just one wasted day out of 185 in a year if you ask me.

The vast majority don't give a shit and just run around like idiots. They don't pay attention, touch shit they shouldn't, and generally wreck the day for everyone else. They won't remember what they saw and certainly won't go to the museum ever again. I've seen this too many times. The ones who do like it--they're the sort who are going to be attracted to museums and art galleries anyway.

[uppityperson]

79. Wow. What a narrowminded critical view this is.

People do not take kids to museums simply to get higher test scores or "acquired long term knowledge" but to expose their kids to differences in the world. Many people feel that there is not only 1 right way to be, 1 right way to do things and like instilling open mindedness in their children.

[fortyfeetunder]

92. I don't think so....

Museums have become more progressive and provide age-appropriate programs for children under 6. It's not about being a Monet intellectual by age 6, but nurturing the child's natural curiosity about space, perspective and nature.

And if you don't think it's effective, I suggest you check out an elementary school's art interpretation display after the classes have studied a certain artist. They do have a clue. You aren't giving children credit for their natural intelligence.

[Madspirit]

97. Wow

We even have a Children's Museum in Austin and I always LOVE to see kids at museums and art galleries. Austin is a very child-focused town. It's one of the things I love about it. You really do sound like a child hater. I just don't get that.

I have no problem with totally blended communities, breast feeding, diaper changing, kids speaking, old people hanging around, middle-aged people, young people....That IS a community.
Lee

[SarahB]

57. Is it that hard, though, to open your mind?

This may have worked great for your family and I applaud that. There's nothing wrong with that. Different families make different choices and to invalidate their choices based on your personal opinion and experiences does not make yours any better (or worse). Besides, North America is a big place.

[cgrindley]

62. I'll open my mind if you promise to pay for my dinner

if your child cries or spits up or fills its diapers with shit while I'm eating.

I'll open my mind, if you apologize for your child's bad behavior and buy me a replacement movie ticket. I'll open my mind if... naw, there's just nothing that's going to erase the sight of a tired saggy blue veined breast hanging out of a stained over-sized sweatshirt and being sucked at by a grubby 4 year old. That's just never going to be okay.

[WindRavenX]

64. Then don't look at it

Seriously, what's preventing you? Is the woman whipping her teet out and screaming "YOU WILL WATCH ME BREASTFEED OR YOU WILL DIE!111!!"? :shrug:

[cgrindley]

71. That actually sounds vaguely familiar

there I was in Les Halles, enjoying Tony Bourdain's cassoulet and this shuffling breast monster lurched past the charcuterie counter and oozed over to my table, before I could do anything, long, sinuous breast-tentacles wrapped around my legs and arms, while huge nipples menaced me...

YOU WILL WATCH ME BREASTFEED MY HELLSPAWN OR DIE!!!!

at that moment, I knew I was doomed...

[SarahB]

67. Is that in any way relevant to my original post?

I don't bring my children to adult movies or restaurants and I haven't been a nursing mother for several years. You are personally attacking me when you have no idea what my personal situation is which makes it pretty obvious you're just looking for a fight. You're not worth it, silly man. I find it boring to try to convince reactionaries to think in a logical and open-minded fashion, so I'm done. Besides, I have older kids and frankly I don't like to go to expensive restaurants with little children either.

[cgrindley]

70. Sorry, I used the wrong pronoun

I meant "one" not "you".

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

49. When I decided to breastfeed my first son, 20 years ago, it wasn't a matter of being

Progressive. It was the natural, healthful thing to do. I also breastfed him until he was 22 months, allowing him to wean naturally. When I gave birth to my second son, I did the same. He nursed until the eve of his 1st birthday, when he let me know, on his own, he was no longer interested.

Both kids are exceptionally well-adjusted, never suffered from separation anxiety, and are pretty healthy. My older son, was way ahead with his muscular development, starting to crawl at 3 months and by the age of 10 months was running. My second child had complications at birth and was later diagnosed as borderline CP. His small and large motor coordination was behind by about a year for the first 10 years of his life. He then caught up. I firmly believe, that if I hadn't breastfed him, he would have been behind a great deal more.

[Ilsa]

72. Hey, SB,

I hope your exams go well, etc. This is an exciting time for you in your life. If I may...

Remember to stay current on the lactation information. It amazes me that there is always so much new information out there. Try to go to some seminars to get your CEUs. The seminars are wonderful. After a certain number of hours of work and types of seminars, you can apply to take the IBCLC exam. Don't let anyone catch you giving bad info out in ten years.

I decided not to sit for the exam a few years ago, but I try to stay current. I still spend alot of time helping new moms and even mothers of older babies and toddlers get through whatever the problem might be. LLL offers alot of great info on older nurslings, but I bet you already know that.

Remember one other thing: sometimes you won't be able to solve a mom's lactation problem for her. She'll need to solve it for herself. Remember that when she does, she will build confidence in herself as a new mom. Sometimes you just need to be the person who'll listen and help her prioritize.

Your sister in registered nursing and breastfeeding promotion,
"Ilsa" :pals:

PS: GREAT POST!!!

[SarahB]

89. Right now,

(well in 5 weeks) I'll be doing high risk antepartum, gyn surgery, and gyn oncology. Lactation medicine is more of a long term goal. Right now, I'm just getting my feet wet and I'm going to see some of the "hard stuff" first so to speak (still births, preterm labor, and pregnancy with comorbidities).

It's definitely in my long term goals and I'll be floating to the regular post-partum unit sometimes too. Thank you. :)

[Maru Kitteh]

77. I hope to be a breastfeeding mom again.

You can bet I will not be putting the concerns of the ignorant before the needs of the child we hope to have.

[AliceBlitzstein]

80. Getting upset over breastfeeding is weird

I can't imagine anyone getting upset over a mother feeding her baby in a restaurant or wherever else. Would they rather have to listen to a crying baby? I don't see the argument?

[misternormal]

81. UCLA did a study...

... On why human breast milk is healthier for babies then whole cow's milk...

The researchers came up with four reasons:

1... It's cleaner

2... It's Fresher

3... The cats can't get at it

4... It comes in such cute little containers...

All kidding aside... It is a perfectly natural function, and I, nor anyone I know is offended by it. It's just too bad there are those that are bothered by it.

[personman]

82. I think you should feed your breasts whenever they are hungry. nt

[SarahB]

88. My breasts would like some nachos and a Guinness by this point in the evening.

:crazy:

[Forkboy]

86. People who have a problem with this are fucking idiots.

[cgrindley]

91. You write "this" as if it's a monolithic entity

it's not. There's a huge difference between breastfeeding an actual honest-to-god infant and breastfeeding a toddler. And also, I'm pretty sure that some people object to breastfeeding in public because they can't bring themselves to actually say that they simply don't want to see children or babies in certain settings, eg restaurants. Let's face it, until they're about 8, children are pretty poorly behaved, and eat like drooling idiots, toddlers more so.

[Forkboy]

95. I stand by it.

Seems to fit quite nicely.

[LisaL]

98. Yep. Add to that is that babies cry.

People go to a restaurant to enjoy a meal. Not to hear some baby crying non stop, or toddlers screaming.

[LuckyLib]

96. Yet what's interesting is that in terms of women's fashions, we're seeing more breast than ever.

Cleavage everywhere. On folks who should NOT be giving us that much flesh popping out of their clothing. I'm just sayin . . .

[deutsey]

100. Ain't no big deal to me...It's natural and it doesn't bother me in the least

when I see a woman feeding her child that way. :shrug:

[seabeyond]

101. my old fashion conservative father and i talking. today compared to years ago

and we are amazed at those having issue today. more "to do" about breast feeding today than in the 40's 50's and 60's. i know when i was growing up i could run up to a mom breastfeeding and hardly hesitate in conversation with the mom. it was so not a big deal. in all our enlightment today, we seem to have placed breast feeding into the most unnatural of places. today the breast is all about sex. today the breast is not allowed to be seen as anything but a turn on. to see the breast in feeding a baby takes it to the most basic, and our society has deemed that is not a place the breast is allowed to be.

this is one issue that the past was much more progressive than we are today.

[Madspirit]

102. I TOTALLY Agree

I'm glad I still live in a hippie town. I see women breastfeeding all the time. No one even takes notice unless it's with the kind of slight smile you have when you see something endearing. It's just feeding a baby.
Lee