I respectfully held my peace yesterday but need to say something today.

[Skidmore]

Yesterday we watched the media (mainstream and bloggers) hold their collective breath while a man received stents. A man who is wealthy and can afford to pay for his healthcare with his pocket change. This procedure is performed on a million people a year. I found myself thinking about the thousands who will die because they cannot afford the insurance or the procedure. I found myself thinking about the families that will be missing a parent or sibling and/or a provider. No one is really holding their collective breath for them, either on the right or the left. Not really, or we would have some resolution by now. Rather we've found a way to send the ball down to the other end of the court while screaming "foul" even though our side made sure we'd drop the ball. We let people tea party and brewed our own tea in the back room.

Now, I mean no disrespect to President Clinton, although I've a few bones to pick with him over his presidency. I hope he heals and has many years ahead with his family. However, we are too willing to expend our energies on big personalities and discount the value of those in the crowds.

[Donnachaidh]

1. was thinking the absolute same thing yesterday as my bro went to the ER with chest pain

If he didn't have his job, he'd be dead or dying right now. But because he has health insurance through his job, he has received his stents.

The Big Dawg will be fine -- let's see some reporting on those little guys who get wheeled out of the ER with no hope because they cannot afford to buy, or have been REFUSED health insurance, due to a pre-existing condition.

I'm sick of the hero worshipping done by our media.

[Divine Discontent]

4. amen! I so agree. here's to your bro healing up nicely.

[Donnachaidh]

8. thanks! He's doing fine - we've been down this road before.

My biggest concern was his getting to the hospital through the snow LOL!

[Divine Discontent]

10. yes! that was an adventure I'm sure. we're getting snow in northern FL... crazy.

[liberalmike27]

53. Yea, about hero worship

I had four shows recorded on MSNBC, and ended up deleting them all. How many times does one need to listen to the same fawning repeated information, over, and over...

Seriously, we'd have been better served with a 5 minute update at the beginning of each show, then have them continue with the shows.

Bill Clinton, well, best wishes to the man, but he really was far too pliable, but with the media already so damned corrupt, it's hard for any democrat to make substantive progress, when they won't just decide to not cover the idiocy, or facts, or reality. Still, he really gave in on a lot of crap, but he was a master at the silver toungue.

[peggygirl]

67. It's the media, not the Clintons. And I agree. nt

[Lesleymo]

2. Yes, I always think that way too

whenever I hear of a politician or a media person getting first class medical care. Must be nice. Glad they're all able to get their stents or rehab or whatever they need. Now what about the rest of us?

[dmr]

44. The best health care system the world has ever known.

People from all around the world seek medical care in the United Sates.

That's essentially what the GOP's been spouting, but the problem is it is only as good as the money in your pocket.

If you've got the money and the fame, even the best (and busiest) cardiologist in the region (or maybe nation, who knows?) will drop everything they are doing to treat your illness.

After my concerns about President Clinton's health yesterday, the thoughts above were going through my mind.

The best health care, or even just plain old health care is only as good as the money in your pocket.

I am so incredibly disgusted with the icy hearts of big business, the politicians, the media and the fear-mongering, astroturfed anti-gov't Americans for allowing needless pain, suffering and death.

They can all go to hell.

:grr:

I am relieved Bill is going to be fine. BTW, didn't appreciate the media's death watch on him yesterday, either.

[Divine Discontent]

3. prayers for Bill. and yes, I was thinking of something similar last night also. So many of us have

nothing, literally, when it comes to wealth and ability for real health care. France is the model we should live by, and yet, our country is so bound by this principal that if you work hard - to get to the top as a VP or CEO - you get hundreds of millions over a few decades of "hard" work, and that's okay, while the masses die off from lack of medical care....


really FLIPPING nice!!!

Tired of it. I was thinking last night, specifically, how many people die decades before their wealthier counterparts do, because they don't have cash for treatments.


:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

[AndyA]

5. I thought the same thing.

In fact, anytime I hear of someone famous being sick, I always think how lucky they are that they can afford to get help. Whether it be Clinton, Murtha, Limbaugh, Kennedy, or whoever, they really don't know what it's like to live each day with the dread that the pain being felt might be something worse than a muscle spasm or gas bubble.

Having access to affordable health care is a RIGHT, not a privilege reserved for those with enough money to pay for that right.

Sadly, Murtha and Kennedy's illnesses didn't end well for them, but many other people never get the benefit of any care whatsoever. They just die without it. It's disgraceful and dishonorable that a nation such as ours allows this to happen. :(

[Divine Discontent]

7. great post AndyA. And, may we ALL continue to fight more than ANYTHING for healthcare because you

cannot fight for other causes when you're sick, disabled from disease or dead...


It's not right that the greatest country in the world refuses to back national health care to make its people healthier!!


DAMN
DAMN
DAMN
DAMN
DAMN
DAMN
DAMN


This OP has really set me off, because I was thinking very similar thoughts, as many of us have apparently. We need to keep fighting for REAL reform and keep trying to elect real reformers.

[area51]

45. +1

You reminded me of when I'd heard that Patrick Swayze got cancer, in that it was lucky he was rich enough to afford treatment; it's sad that this country is so insane that people think healthcare is a privilege and not a right.

[StarryNite]

62. Absolutely!

People shouldn't have to try to raise money for medical procedures to save their kid's life by giving car washes. How many cars do you have to wash to come up with that kind of money?

[Myrina]

6. Yep. Most people would have to wait weeks, months ...

... if they got approved for such treatment at all. He walks in and immediately gets the treatment the dr's deem necessary, and ultimately, as a former President, we're paying for it (oh yes, he doesn't need private insurance, he's on our dole along with Cheney and every Congresscritter).

Why can't the rest of us get health care like that?

[Divine Discontent]

9. we're not the lucky ones... I am glad he is pushing for health care reform, as he attempted to do in

'93, but wow, he has been given multi-millions from his connection as a former president and I hope he continues to push people to for real reform. This current president needs told every chance anyone has, that the people want a real health care reform package. Ignore the damn dumb teabaggers....

[lunatica]

11. Clinton fought for universal healthcare

And he knows he's privileged. He benefited personally but he spoke out against Bush's tax cuts for the rich.

[Skidmore]

12. What has that to do with the events of this past year?

I'm making a comment on the political dynamics of the current legislative fight.

[lunatica]

17. Sorry, I wasn't being critical of your OP

I agree with you.

peace.

[asdjrocky]

13. Two Amnericas.

[njlib]

14. Couldn't agree more

being someone who's unemployed with no insurance at all and thought the same thing yesterday. The coverage really was way over the top. I understand it's a news story, but to interrupt the scheduled programming to concentrate solely on an ex-president undergoing a relatively common medical procedure was a bit much.

[stillwaiting]

15. I can't imagine it's possible today to NOT think about the realities you describe.

That is if someone truly holds liberal values on this issue.

I definitely relate to your post. I've seen SO many horrifying stories over the past decade and the system continues to get worse at breakneck speed.

We are so insular as a society and our media will NEVER report in detail how health care truly works in civilized countries. Of which, the U.S. is NOT included for many reasons imo. It's much better that we know the life details of every single one of Tiger Woods mistresses.

[thunder rising]

16. True! The statement he needs to make coming out of the hospital should be to reflect this.

[Whisp]

69. will it be? This would be a perfect opportunity for him to call it like it is.

and seriously get on health care reform. and be a bit humble and spillit out as we all know it - heh. I have this great heatlh care package that many of you don't - I want all of you to have.

will he do it?

[Ganja Ninja]

18. Have you seen the C Everett Koop commercial against health care reform?

If you want to see something that galls watch this. You'll see a man that has spent his whole life in a government health care system brag about how great his health care is and then warn others against it. It's hypocrisy to the 10th power.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElLVtc-BoSc

[Enthusiast]

74. Like the rest, C Everett Koop

has no principles. Unless you count complete disregard for the welfare of your fellow citizens as principled. But he is so typical. They will say anything for money.

[Vinca]

19. I was thinking the same thing. When Dr. Nancy was on advising

anyone with even the slightest symptoms not to wait and get to a doctor, I had to laugh. And then what? You say the magic words "no insurance" and they tell you about the free clinic the following week. My husband says if you're lucky they might shove some PVC up your arm.:rofl: (You've got to laugh or you'll cry.)

[invictus]

20. K&R

[monmouth]

21. I love Pres. Clinton too, but you must have read my mind...Great Post...n/t

[blm]

22. KandR. Exactly what I was thinking.

I wish Clintons no personal harm, but, do wish they had fully considered EVERYTHING they would be giving up for ALL OF US, including healthcare, BECAUSE they protected BushInc's interests.

[sufrommich]

23. You know, it is possible to feel outrage at the number of

people in this country with substandard health care and still feel sympathy for President Clinton's health problems, it's not an either/or situation.

[Skidmore]

24. Did I say otherwise?

[sufrommich]

25. Your last sentence..

"However, we are too willing to expend our energies on big personalities and discount the value of those in the crowds."

[Skidmore]

26. How is that not true?

The only times which health concerns get noticed is when they happen to a wealthy or famous person. We expend our energies on the few and ignore the needs of the many.

[sufrommich]

27. I commented that it is possible to feel both. I'm not sure

what you even mean by "expend our energies".

[Skidmore]

28. Our resources and energies tend to be excessively

devoted to one individual, and this happens quite a bit. Look at the amount of time that was spent on Michael Jackson vs. the amount of real time spent on reworking a bad system that does not seek to rehabilitate addicts in a meaningful manner. Rather, the media cues up and wrings it to death. It becomes about one man and not the greater problem. Now I don't recall wishing the former President ill, and, in fact, wished him well.

[DisgustedInMN]

29. You hit that one right out of the park. n/t

[Maru Kitteh]

30. I suspect it's personal for you, consciously or unconsciously. 12 years from now if Obama

should need a stent I'll bet you'll find yourself with less "concern" over the media coverage.

It's just human nature.




edit for arthritic finger snafus

[Skidmore]

32. Yes, it's personal.

It's personal everytime a relative or friend who can't get proper care because they've been denied insurance coverage or can't afford to pay for basics out of pocket. Damned right it's personal.

[Maru Kitteh]

52. My aunt is dying right now. My kids have no access to healthcare. My SIL has chronic kidney

disease and will very soon be looking at dialysis/transplant/death. She has 2 disabled kids and no insurance.

I don't pin the blame on ongoing coverage about the medical crisis in Haiti, or the latest celebrity overdose. If Cheney drops dead tomorrow from an infection that started on his pinky toe, I promise you won't be confused about where the blame lies for my family's lack of care.

News for profit does what is profitable.

Why not complain about the clear sky being blue?

[fascisthunter]

31. thank you

well said


** more and more do I feel like some serf in this country and I know I'm not alone at feeling that way. Snap out of it upperclass...

[EmeraldCityGrl]

33. Clinton saw his doctor in the morning and was in surgery by

the afternoon. Imagine anyone else getting that kind of attention. Even
if you had insurance you would have to fight them for approval which
could take days or weeks.

I adore Clinton, but it's really frustrating watching how the system works
for them vs. us.

[Ikonoklast]

34. My father saw his doctor for chest pain at nine in the morning

and had a stent inserted before lunch. This happened the week before Christmas.


Yes, other people dogdet that kind of attention. And there was no quarreling with the insurance company, or anyone else for that matter.


My father is far from a wealthy man, he just has a good cardiologist.

[midnight]

46. Those good docs do so much for free, and if it were not for their generosity

many would go without.... Now I'm not saying your dad doc did his service for free, but many do.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

35. you nailed it -- the national glomming of big personalities

the cult of personality, the celebrity obsession..... blinds us to our own selves!


I was holding my breath too, for President Clinton and I will continue to do so. But at the same time, you really made me aware of the point.

:thumbsup:

[geardaddy]

36. Yep

"A man who is wealthy and can afford to pay for his healthcare with his pocket change."

But has government healthcare so doesn't need to spend his money on healthcare.

[TreeHugnLibra]

56. Exactly. Why is it that politicians who can afford to pay for their own healthcare

get their insurance paid for by the government, yet they want to require folks that can't afford it to buy their own. Maybe the first step in healthcare reform is to require all politicians to pay for their own healthcare and insurance costs to actually see what it's like.

[pengillian101]

59. Exactly!

"Maybe the first step in healthcare reform is to require all politicians to pay for their own healthcare and insurance costs to actually see what it's like."

Welcome to DU!

[TreeHugnLibra]

60. Thank you. I like it here. :)

[G_j]

37. poor people are obviously inferior

or this great nation would not just let them die.

:sarcasm:

[Fire1]

38. Tell that to those idiots in the Senate! I agree and so does

the President.

[GeorgeGist]

39. I respect your piece of mind ...

today.

[arthritisR_US]

40. beautifully said and I share many of your sentiments. n/t

[bbgrunt]

41. when I flipped on the tv yesterday to watch Ed

at first I thought Clinton had died. He spent virtually the whole hour dealing with the finer points of stents etc. without even mentioning his signature issue--health care for all. I just shook my head in disbelief.

I do not wish any harm on Clinton, but the media display on MSNBC was pretty disgusting.

[AdHocSolver]

58. It is like describing how to make an elegant dinner to a person on food stamps.

The subtle message from the media to the average person is here is what you could have if only you had been born into a wealthy family, or as in Clinton's case, made yourselves subservient to the moneyed classes.

However, since you weren't born to wealth, then you don't deserve any of this.

The propaganda claims that anybody can work hard and become wealthy. That is a lie. The cost of even a mediocre higher education is prohibitive to many middle class people. Many from the middle class who do get degrees are saddled with enormous debts to pay off that precludes accumulating enough wealth to enjoy the touted upper middle class life style.

For those who do make it to wealth, there are the corporate and Wall Street Ponzi schemers and banksters and "health" insurance companies ready to separate you from your money.

America has morphed from a republic into an imperial power run by a bunch of demagogues, crooks, and con artists. Like all imperial powers before it, it is in decline.

A worthy country would provide, at a minimum, enough food to sustain life, shelter, a serviceable education, and access to affordable health care for its citizens.

Instead, the crooks that run this country demonize the working and middle classes to raise their own stature in the public view, and justify their thievery.

[Skidmore]

66. I wish I could recommend your response

on its own. You are absolutely spot on. The idea of meritocracy has been badly abused here. We have managed to morph ourselves into a pale image of the old kingdoms our ancestors left behind while they moved on.

[jtuck004]

42. In a small town in Arkansas lives a friend of mine

Worked with me as a medic in a medium-sized city for a couple of years - I moved on, he continued, and when the place got sold, despite his years of service, he was left out - as happened to many there. Moved back to Arkansas, (where he was from), and after a few years of working underwent much the same course of treatment as we have been hearing about the past couple days.

Only his didn't work out so well. The internal stitches got infected, his breastbone was removed, and his ribs were left free-floating.

Tried to work, most days couldn't because of the pain, and in the 3 years it took to get on Social Security he was denied care several times because he didn't have the money. Has been in and out of the hospital since, spends his life just trying to get by, and to breathe.

Hard being part of the crowd, for him.

[femrap]

43. Make sure you need your

stents after turning 65 and you have Medicare.

How many are going to die in their 50's???? The body starts to decline and insurance premiums begin to skyrocket.

[MissDeeds]

47. Well said

And thanks for saying it. :applause:

K&R

[noamnety]

48. Thank you.

I was listening to the radio about the quick care Clinton got and vehicles waiting outside to greet him, while simultaneously asking for advice on whether or not as a teacher I could pay for a prescription that a student needs because their insurance denied coverage.

[winyanstaz]

49. darn right.......

[bertman]

50. Rec. Thank you, Skidmore. nt

[kleec]

51. Nice

to know there are others who were thinking the same thing that I was. I thought the coverage was very over done by the endless showing the same thing over and over again. I am really disgusted with the way our government keeps passing the ball on health care coverage for all. It's ridiculous, and we are the laughing stock of the world. I feel so badly that so many people I know do not have coverage of any kind because they cannot afford the premiums, or, they have pre-existing conditions. How stupid is this?

Thanks for posting, you have lots of company.

[havocmom]

54. Yep

It really is not news, and there were other pressing issues that impacted more than just the patient and his immediate family.

I wish Bill well, always will. But there are so many who cannot get care, and THAT is the real news story.

[patrice]

55. Ab - so - lute - ly NAILED! it. Some people are just fucking more valuable than others.

[bkozumplik]

57. wholeheartedly agreed

Theres something deeply wrong with the hero worshipping "I'm not worthy" aspects of our society.
And puzzlingly, it goes along with an "every man for himself" "looking out for #1" ethos as well.
I blame the Judeo-christians.

[sakabatou]

61. Backwards

[sohndrsmith]

63. I had the same procedure (angiography) a year ago...

No, I didn't receive a stent.

However:

Several years ago (when I had normal health insurance), I had cardiac difficulties and was told I should consider surgery. Since I was given an "option" about it as it was not an emergency - but a cardiac 'flaw' (and being scared), I declined having a surgeon shock my heart, among other things. Very bad decision.

Back then I had a cardiologist, whose care I lost along with my insurance as a result of divorce.

Years later, the only insurance has been state funded. My cardiac problems are basically invisible, as are other issues: with a family history of skin cancer, I showed my doctor a new growth that concerned me - which (instead of referring me to a dermatologist) he simply flicked off my face with his fingernail and seemed satisfied.

A year ago I had severe chest pains one night, hoping it was stress or fatigue. The next night, it happened again. It was excruciating. Given my cardiac history (and my mother being a 5-time heart attack survivor), I drove myself to the ER around 2 in the morning. Bad idea. Plus, unbeknownst to me, my insurance had lapsed.

I was admitted and had the same procedure President Clinton had. Only difference/s:

Although I was told there were problems with the arteries surrounding my heart, they weren't written down and they weren't specific. It was basically "heart attack? No - we're done here."... at least that was my sense.

My discharge paperwork instructed me to see a cardiologist within 2 weeks, but I had to go through the primary doctor. I saw/called him repeatedly - and have still been refused a referral to a cardiologist. He did give me an EKG - which took an eternity because the technicians couldn't do it and, finally, i offered suggestions that helped them out (I had no idea what to do, but common sense and frustration made me speak up).

He did refer me to a hematologist (because I have a blood disorder that nearly cost me my life but was previously monitored). The doctor actually *laughed* at me when I told him about my history. There was no way the state coverage I had would pay for testing of this, much less the medicine (I was told should be on hand at all times).

The procedure is non-invasive, that's true. But having no reasonable followup care (even with insurance) is very scary, indeed. I know I have cardiac problems. I assume my lifespan is compromised because of it - primarily because I don't have adequate ability to monitor it. It's very frustrating.

[Skidmore]

65. I'm so sorry you are having such

severe health issues that are not being met. Makes me want to push back all the harder. We need affordable and accessible healthcare for all. It is the moral and humane thing to do as a society.

[Lilyeye]

64. I couldn't agree more skidmore.

I very much so wanted Clinton to get better and have nothing against him. However, I couldn't help but think about how another American wouldn't have had that same treatment because they couldn't afford it.

[Fire_Medic_Dave]

68. This procedure is performed on lots of people who don't have insurance.

Not saying that it's good or right or even okay for them not to have insurance but a person without insurance would get emergency care for an acute MI. Clearly though the well off get better care but that is true in every system.

[Grinchie]

70. You are weeping for an unhealthy man

Humans are not made to be unhealthy. Why do you even concern yourself whit the man who set the stage for the Supreme court decision in 2000? This man, Bill Clinton, so charismatic and lovable, took a nation to the cleaners with corruption of the DOJ, ethical lapses, NAFTA, and the selling out of the AMerican Food Supply to Monsanto. To name a few.

And what makes you think that stents are going to help him? All they do is prolong his life temporarily, while inserting foreign objects that will need to come out, but face it, he'll die first.

I have no concern about Bill Clinton or his Wife. They can deal with their own problems on their own, simply because they brought it on themselves, and if I am not being clear, they brought on their own illness by being shister lawyers and selling out their souls for a quick buck.

Strong language? You bet. Just look at our fabulous foreign policy with HRC as Sectretary of State...

Makes you wanna puke.

[Skidmore]

71. I think you need to read my post again.

Boy, are you off target.

[tilsammans]

72. A friggin' HELICOPTER was hovering over WJC as he arrived home . . .

. . . after the procedure.

Yet the media pays little or no attention to those who will never come home again.

:rant:

(edited for typo)

[Yurovsky]

so much for goin' green...

I wonder how much petroleum-based energy was wasted on the dog'n pony show surrounding this medical procedure?

OTOH glad to hear that WJC is recovering nicely.

[Yurovsky]

75. so much for goin' green...

I wonder how much petroleum-based energy was wasted on the dog'n pony show surrounding this medical procedure?

OTOH glad to hear that WJC is recovering nicely.

[tilsammans]

76. So right. And why couldn't they let the poor man just go home in peace . . . ?

It wouldn't have ruined my day if I didn't see him get out of the vehicle and go into the house.
:wtf:

[Enthusiast]

73. Same thing crossed my mind. nt