When Howard Dean Screamed, MSM Coverage Never Ended. When Palin Read her Palm, it Never Began.

[NYC_SKP]

Not surprised, just disappointed.

I rate the Dean Scream distraction up there with the theft of the 2000 and 2004 elections.



http://tv.gawker.com/5466004/

[spanone]

1. don't forget that double-standard for repubs and democrats

[liberal N proud]

2. And they still have the nerve to call it a liberal media.

[Berry Cool]

3. I keep telling you folks. Hang in there. Keith is coming.

So is Rachel.

And if you think the Daily Show's not gonna glom onto this...

[WeDidIt]

7. IT doesn't matter

If Keith, Ed, and Rachel are the only people who report it, it's screaming in the echo chamber.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

8. Jon Stewart? Colbert? Letterman?

[napi21]

4. Wait until Monday. I have a feeling KO or RM or DR just might

mention it. Mostly what you have on the weekends are teleprompter readers.

[Celebration]

5. If the primary race was on

It would get attention, I promise. It should anyway, of course.

[laughingliberal]

6. "I rate the Dean Scream distraction up there with the theft of the 2000 and 2004 elections."

+1000

[NYC_SKP]

9. I still just shake my head with sadness. I really like that guy.

And there was some kind of ugly shit going on behind the scenes, it wasn't a big deal.

Unbelievable.

:tinfoilhat:

[laughingliberal]

10. He stands up for the people. No one who does that has a chance with the corporate controlled media

And, sadly, they don't have much chance within the party, these days.

[PHIMG]

11. DLC and Corporate Conservative Democrats put out a hit on Dean

I think right now the status quo see Palin as a useful idiot. They are trying to break up the Republican party I think. The Democratic Party of Rahm Emmanuel is the new Republican party.

[Billy Burnett]

12. And the Dean scream audio was post production edited and mixed louder for the TV spin cycle.

[NYC_SKP]

14. Yep. It was like watching an assassination unfold and we who watched were helpless.

John Kerry, for fuck sake, was the favorite among the Democratic establishment.

I so wish Howard Dean had not been knee-capped.

Fuck.

[karynnj]

19. John Kerry was NOT the favorite of the Democratic establishment at that point

If he was, he would have had media support - which he did not. The coverage was when he would drop out. Dean, Edwards, and Clark ALL had more positive coverage. The New Republic, which had a Neo-con bias had various people write endorsements for Lieberman, Dean, Edwards, Clark - but NOT for Kerry.

If he was, he would have had money, he didn't - he lent himself $6 million - which had he lost the nomination, he would have lost and would have had difficulty repaying.

If he was, he would have had endorsements from the party. Dean led in endorsements - and had Gore and Harkin. Clark was the Clinton favorite.

But, Kerry DID have one important endorsement. He had Ted Kennedy, the liberal lion - the leader of the part of party that was against the DLC. Kerry was the most liberal person running in 2004. Ted Kennedy even initially pushed Kerry to consider running again in 2008 and stayed with him until he opted out.

Dean was not "knee capped". He imploded after a nasty fight with Gephardt, started when Gephardt responded with a strong, negative ad after he thought that Dean had lied about his positions. The fact is that there had not been a single vote cast when people thought Dean had the strongest chance to win. In Iowa, he failed to get enough people out caucusing for him.

It is now FIVE years later. It is ridiculous for you to continue to attack John Kerry, who won that campaign because he and his family were compelling speaking to people one to one and in small groups in Iowa.

[dsc]

21. yeah it is almost as if Kerry callers were caught making anti semitic jibes at Dean's wife

no wait, that happened. It is almost as if the same callers were caught making anti gay campaign calls, no wait that happened too.

[karynnj]

23. John Kerry's brother is Jewish - he converted from Catholicism and it was already know that

John Kerry is ethnically half Jewish himself - his paternal grandparents were born Jewish and converted to Catholicism.

I have never heard this accusation and Kerry has had a long term good reputation among Jews - I am Jewish and have read Jewish papers. This is a despicable accusation. Given the Senator's KNOWN Jewish roots and the fact that his wife, Teresa, was not your standard WASP, calling people and commenting that Dean's wife is Jewish is highly unlikely to get votes for Kerry - it might have helped Edwards or Gephardt.

In addition, you disputed NOTHING I wrote in my post and are just throwing out filth.

[dsc]

24. It was on video tape

doesn't get much more clear than that.

[karynnj]

26. Using google, that was a disputed charge and there was no mention of video

as it was a phone call made to a Dean volunteer, who has a name that I would suspect was Jewish.

In addition, it was not an anti-Semitic comment, it was a comment that Steinberg was Jewish. A fact that Dean had spoken of often and, in fact, used to get Jewish support. In addition, "Both Foxman and the executive director of the Jewish Federation of Greater Manchester, Adam Solender, said that they had not heard a single report of the alleged calls."

[dsc]

33. the volunteer was on video tape

so the call was caught on tape. and yes, taking care to point out your opponents wife is Jewish is anti Semitic.

[karynnj]

36. It is definately not anti-Semitic - unless YOU think there is something wrong with being Jewish

Not to mention, it is a very strange thing to say to NH Democrats as it would alienate more people than it would win - it actually has more a ring of something that a volunteer for a third candidate might say - especially as Kerry volunteers from MA very likely knew that his brother was Jewish and that the family has Jewish roots.

There was no mention in any article that this was on video tape. It also defies reason that a woman at home just happened to videotape herself when she received a call - presumably knowing to put it on speaker phone - because otherwise it would not have captured.

Your story that it was videotaped is NOT verified by any link. Had it been, I am sure that every cable station would have played it. It wasn't.The dog that did not bark.

I also find it more compelling that there were no calls to the the ADL or the JFGM. This really does reek of desperation on the part of a frustrated Dean campaign - that saw his long term lead erode in December and early January to Clark, then saw much of that Clark support go first to undecided and then, especially after Iowa to Kerry.

[dsc]

39. She was being video taped by an ABC news crew for unrelated reasons

then she did put the call on speaker from her cell due to its contents. Oh, and it was Iowa, not NH.

[Peregrine Took]

13. I'll never forget that night. Its "tattooed" on my brain!

We were in Davenport, Iowa, after spending the day at the Dean headquarters downtown making phone calls.

The first person that went after him was Scarborough then the rest of the mice chimed in. I thought "What the hell?" he was just rallying the troops but the media, who blew him up for months, had tired of him and decided to destroy him.

I hope Pat Leahy will retire soon (!!) and Howard can run for his seat.

[donheld]

15. Indeed

[karynnj]

16. Dean's scream came after he imploded in Iowa

Had there been no scream, the coverage would have been why the predicted front runner lost by 20 points to the man who everyone predicted would be out no later than after the NH primary. As those things go, the coverage would have focused on everything wrong in his campaign. The effect would be the same.

Kerry was less than 10 points down in NH at the time of the Iowa win - and many didn't mention him as the conventional wisdom was he had no chance to win the nomination. Like every winner of a contested primary, Kerry got momentum and won NH. This would have happened without the scream.

Then Dean announced that he was not actively contesting the 7 states in the first multi-primary day - DE, ND, MO,SC, OK, NM, and AZ. He said the next group was better for him. He didn't have much on the ground in these states - his plan had been win Iowa and NH and then the rest would follow. Having lost both to Kerry, he also had money problems as Trippi wasted a huge amount of money in Iowa and NH.

If anything, the man hurt by Dean's "scream" (which was not really a scream) was Kerry. The coverage would have, in addition to focusing on Dean's and Gephardt's unexpected loss would have gone to Kerry. I would bet that coverage would have had coverage of the amazing reunion with Rassman and the vets and fireman with Kerry. Now, Kerry, in spite of this went on to easily win the nomination - but that early coverage, that was lost in the noise, would have helped.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

28. And the answer would be that the Establishment Dems, including Kucinich,

banded together and agreed to a fractional delegate swapping scheme that left Dean out in the cold.

http://www.boston.com/news/politics/president/articles/2004/01/09/caucus_night_vote_swapping_could_tilt_iowa/

[karynnj]

30. Your link is conjecture written before the caucus

It was all conjecture about what the candidates would do with the entrance poll information. The campaign that they spoke of being prepared to game play was the Dean one.
Note that there is an embedded assumption in the discussion of game playing that Dean will be the leading candidate - thus the discussion that JK being second would be the best for Dean.

Now, we already knew before the fact that Kucinich made a deal with Edwards. We also know that he had only 4% of the total people - and that some of that was so concentrated that he kept 1.3% in the final results. From a comparison of the entrance poll and the final results, that deal might have sent people to Edwards.

When the caucus actually happened, Kerry was significantly ahead in the composite entrance polls. Here's a link with the entrance poll (as the top line in the chart) - http://www.pollster.com/blogs/how_accurate_were_the_iowa_pol.php Kerry had 35, Edwards had 26, Dean had 20, Gephard had 11. Now, even though there are scholarly papers claiming that inter candidate deals helped Kerry - the obvious truth is shown by these numbers. The fact is there the entrance polls add to 97 - and Kerry went up about 2 and 1/2 points, Edwards went up nearly 6, Dean down just 2, Gephardt nearly a wash, Kucinch down slightly more than 3 1and 1/2. NOTE THAT THE RESULTS ARE PRETTY MUCH THE SAME Kerry beating the frontrunner Dean by 15 is as much a story as beating him by 20.

Now, using your link and these entrance poll numbers, Dean operatives knew early on that Kerry had more "first choices" and that Edwards was ahead of him. What would then be his optimal strategy in the districts where he failed to get the 15%? For Dean there were no good options. Sending them to Kerry or Edwards maximized the amount he lost to both of them, but sending them to Gephardt in the places Gephardt had 15%, could make him tied for third or last. If they did anything, I bet they pushed people to Edwards. Kerry winning big threatened Dean in NH, where Edwards was not strong.

The fact is that for the viable contenders, their final percents were all pretty close to their entrance poll numbers with the one exception of Edwards, who definitely benefited from the two stage process - but not enough to change the perception of the race.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

34. Did Kucinich agree to delegate his fractionals to Edwards?

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/01/19/elec04.prez.edwards.kucinich/index.html

[karynnj]

38. Per many news account, yes - but he had very very little to "give"

However, he only had 4% of the caucus goers - and he had 1.3% in the final tally. You are thus speaking of 3.7% of the entire count and that assumes they all listened - and some on the CSPAN show went elsewhere or dropped out.

Loo at my link. There was no radical shift from entry first choice percent to the final tally.

Dean went from 20% to 18% - not a huge difference
Kerry went from 35% to 38% - not a huge difference


Your article written BEFORE the primary was completely off base. It was actually speaking more of how Dean could increase his chances by trying to get the others to come out in an order better for him. (ie Kerry as second, who would then lose in NH ... ie suggesting he was less a threat than Edwards or Gephardt)

In reality, look at here ( http://www.pollster.com/blogs/how_accurate_were_the_iowa_pol.php ) and compare entry first choice estimate and final tally. The order and even the perceived magnitude of the differences is very much the same. The biggest change in Edwards - and that was not significant - even with the lower entry estimate, he was still second and still far ahead of Dean.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. Look deeper.

http://www.slate.com/id/2094034/

[karynnj]

37. Again written before the caucus

The facts are that Kerry surged at the end. There is no mystery there. The Register had a poll that was a rolling average and Kerry was gaining a point or two a day in the last week. A rolling average deadens momentum because it is designed to smooth out jumps that mean nothing - but it does so at a cost of having old data pulling estimates down when there is real momentum.

It also makes logical sense. What happened in the last weekend. One of the days, you had Kerry reuniting for the first time since 1969 with the man he saved in Vietnam - the tv coverage looking like a plot element in a classic movie. If you were on the fence on either candidate or whether you would caucus, that could very well have been what got you out.

Note, that they speak of a race that was a near tie for 4 candidates, but that is NOT what happened. Kerry was far ahead with nearly double the number of people that Dean had. There is no justification to think that Dean really did better than the 20% estimated from the entry poll.

Face reality - Dean did not get enough new voters to the caucus to do better than come in a poor third. No matter how deep you look.

[librechik]

17. well, at least you know now who is really in charge and why we can never really win

even Obama--shut down in the first month by the same kind of empty headed BS. Want your vote to count? Buy a network.

[Beaverhausen]

18. the media loves her because of one thing only- ratings

She's like those car chases- you can't take your eyes off of her because you know she will do or say something idiotic.

but the MSM is all about money and ratings. Period.

[MadBadger]

20. While you probably will be right, it did happen on a Saturday

You have to wait till at least Monday.

[csziggy]

22. Alix Witt said she was reading note cards in her palm

Her guest, whoever it was, corrected her, but I am sure that will not make any impact.

Damn, the first speech I ever gave at school in the fifth grade, I memorized the whole thing and had cards with an outline if I needed a bump to the memory. I never got desperate enough to write notes on my hand.

And for why she was rubbing her hands on her legs - I bet she was trying to rub off the ink.

[Vinca]

25. I turned on MSNBC a few minutes ago and Joey Scar was saying

something about "the left making a big deal out of couple of words written on her palm." I've got one word for Scarborough: teleprompter. If they're going to dwell on Obama's teleprompter, I'm going to dwell on Palin's redneck teleprompter.

[Democat]

27. The media loves Palin, they would they say anything bad about her?

They are all hoping she will run in 2012.

[NYC_SKP]

29. Good case in point. So much material from her "speech" that could be, would be, looped....

...over and over again.

Had they wanted to.

Not that I'd want them to, but it just shows the inanity of the way the selectively report embarrassing moments.

[kudzu22]

31. Might be because Dean was important

and Palin is not.

[Maru Kitteh]

32. Perhaps if she had done it REALLY LOUDLY WITH A CRAZY LOOKING FACE ???

1. It wasn't a primary election night.

2. As an audio/visual event, the Dean scream scored pretty high, maybe a high 7 or a low 8. Sarah mumbling into her palm as an audio/visual event on the other hand.... what? 0.7? Deadly dull.


I'd would still love to see it used for some commercials though. "In 2010 at a teabag party convention, Sarah Palin needed to consult notes on her palm when somebody asked her what her priorities would be as President. WE have some suggestions for you Sarah . . . . ."

So many possibilities.

The item I would suggest for the end of her list? Go home Sarah.

[geardaddy]

40. Excellent post