Need help in an argument. PETA - can anyone think of any

[leftyladyfrommo]

defense for the stuff they do? Do they do any good?

After Peta members lied and took those animals out of the shelter saying they were going to transfer them to another shelter so they could find homes for them. And then euthanized all of them in the parking lot and dumped the bodies in a nearby dumpster. I think that was absolutely a horrible thing to do. And then to find out that people dropped off animals with them thinking that they would find them homes - and they just euthanized them all - about 2,000 I think. I think that behavior is just god awful.

But I am into it with someone who thinks that behavior is justified. Afterall those animals would have just suffered in that shelter. By taking them and killing them they put them out of their misery.

Is that a completely crazy argument - or am I losing it.

[superduperfarleft]

1. Oh, this should be good. n/t

[leftyladyfrommo]

3. Honestly, I am not trying to start a fight. That argument just

totally baffles me.

[Ignis]

2. Your support can be found in the dictionary under "disingenuity."

No one's fooled. :hi:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Richard_Berman_cares_about_animals:_clients_exposed

[blondeatlast]

31. No PETA fan I, but I always thought that story smelled funny. Thanks; good info. nt

[Ignis]

45. Yeah, love 'em or hate 'em, let's at least speak the truth, right?

:hi:

[MineralMan]

4. PETA? Just say no.

[trotsky]

5. They hurt their cause far, far more than they help it.

I guess the one good thing they do is raise lots of money from dupes to pay Ingrid Newkirk. Good for her, that is.

[Warpy]

6. While some chapters don't pick their fights well and get into trouble

with the media for doing stupid stunts, PETA has also been filming conditions inside factory farming operations and lobbying to get some changes made. Their efforts have been successful in factory egg laying operations, getting increased room in cages for hens.

Inhumane treatment of animals used for meat is probably not high on the list of priorities for anti PETA people, but it's where they shine.

[Vincardog]

7. That is well and good. Where do you stand on PETA releasing dogs from their crates at dog shows?

[newfie11]

9. Yeah some of those dogs were hit by cars.

Also I have been told they are known to pour stuff in the water bowls that make the dogs sick. When at shows we never leave our dogs alone even in a crate because of PETA.

[Ignis]

14. Links? Support? Anything other than made-up hearsay? (nt)

[Vincardog]

26. I was ther and I saw it.

[superduperfarleft]

28. If it was as big an issue as you say it was, wouldn't the police have been called?

You mean to tell me that with all the resources and money that PETA's enemies have, there wasn't one big of documentation about something like occurring?

[Ignis]

30. Saw what? When? Done by whom? No media reports?

Perhaps you find my lack of faith disturbing?

Tough. :hi:

[Vincardog]

THis is not worth my time. If you don't want to believe they do this shit Don't believe it

[Ignis]

43. If you won't provide proof, give me the details and I'll research it myself.

Or you could simply admit that you were...shall we say, "elaborating upon the truth?"

[superduperfarleft]

47. I've tried googling this several times, and nothing comes up.

That's why I tend to file it into my "This one time at band camp..." folder.

[Ignis]

48. "But I called the CCF bat-phone, and they SWEAR it's true!"

Yeah, band camp sounds about right: A lot of sound and fury, ending in something messy and smelly.

[blondeatlast]

50. +1. nt

[blondeatlast]

35. Do tell. I'm no fan of PETA, but I find some things very difficult to believe. nt

[Vincardog]

49. For that last time. I was in OKC 10 years ago and at two different dog shows this happened and I saw...

it. Believe it or don't I do not really give a flying fig. I am just tired of people supporting high sounding 'Ideals' when PETA's agenda to to have no animals under human control.

[superduperfarleft]

51. Yeah, I still think you're making it up. n/t

[Ignis]

55. Google returns nothing useful on the following search string:

"peta oklahoma city 2000 dog show"

So help us redefine the search string, so we can do your homework for you.

[Ignis]

81. More googling turns up nothing like what you claim.

"peta dog show" -- stupid PETA protest garb info but nothing about releasing animals at shows

"peta dog show oklahoma" -- info about OK's lovely :puke: dog breeders but nothing about releasing animals at shows

I think it's time to 'fess up and admit that you were making shit up to make PETA look bad, don't you?

[LeftyMom]

71. And no media covered it? I'm calling BS.

[superduperfarleft]

21. Because of PETA?

:rofl:

For a related question, how many rolls of duct tape do you own?

[Ignis]

60. Crickets? Quelle surprise! (nt)

[flvegan]

15. I don't believe PETA did that.

I do believe that some "activists" did so, but I don't believe they were employed by PETA.

[OnyxCollie]

16. Do you have any documented occurrences of PETA

releasing dogs at dog shows?

I go to dog shows, and sometimes I hear panicking people exclaim, "PETA is here! They're gonna release dogs!"

It strikes me similar as "Al Qaeda is coming! They're gonna slit your throats!"

Manipulation is easy.

[Ignis]

20. "We don't need no stinkin' FACTS! We've got RUMORS!"

:banghead:

[Vincardog]

29. I was at dog shows and saw them releasing dogs 2 different times.

[flvegan]

32. "Them" who?

These are people that collect a paycheck from PETA, right?

[superduperfarleft]

33. No you weren't.

In fact, I was at the same dog show, and saw YOU doing it!!!!!

[Ignis]

39. QED!

:rofl:

[Ignis]

37. Which shows? When? Where?

What were the names of the PETA employees who released the dogs? Which PETA office did they work out of? What crimes were they charged with, and in which jurisdiction?

[blondeatlast]

38. When and where? No PETA fan am I, but I don't like disinformation, either. nt

[LeftyMom]

72. And nobody wrote an article, took a picture or posted a credible account online.

Suuuuuuuure.

[Ignis]

78. I'm sure it's because all the media are in PETA's pocket.

You have to send in for the secret decoder ring to know their TRUE agenda!

:dunce:

[leftyladyfrommo]

94. I do know this - people here in KC that go to dog shows are all

very careful not to ever leave their dogs unattended. They are afraid of animal rights terrorists opening the dog crates and letting dogs out. I do not know how often this has actually happened and how much is just urban legend kind of thing. But people take the threat seriously around here.

The other threat is having the dogs poisoned by the competition. I haven't heard of fear that the dogs will be poisoned by animal rights terrorists. But I do know that competitors are afraid that their animals might be harmed by the competition in the show world. Competition in the dog world can get pretty bad.

[Ignis]

103. "animal rights terrorists" -- Agenda much? (nt)

[superduperfarleft]

18. Do you have any proof that this actually happened?

I seem to remember you making this accusation elsewhere, and I got nothing but crickets when I asked you for proof.

[Ignis]

25. Sung to the tune of "I Guess That's Why They Call It The Blues":

And I guess that's why
They call it bulletproof

[Vincardog]

34. I was there I saw it. What more proof do I need than my own eyes? What proof do you have that it

didn't happen?

[superduperfarleft]

40. You make the claim, you back it up.

That's how these things work.

[blondeatlast]

52. When and where, and I will Google it myself? Just a city and a date, even a month

and year.

You have plenty of time to post about thow you are certain it happened; I'd like to be as certain as you are.

[Ignis]

77. Oklahoma City in 2000, right? Which dog show? (nt)

[Warpy]

61. Uh, did you read the words "stupid stunts?"

[SoCalNative]

10. Um actually I detest PETA

but I am glad someone is trying to do something to clean up the factory farming and slaughterhouse offenses.

As an omnivore I will only buy cage free eggs, free range Chicken and grass fed and finished beef.

[Warpy]

59. The few times I eat meat a year, I'm with you

There is no way I'll buy factory farmed anything if I can help it.

There are some PETA people I could throttle with a smile on my face. While I share their opinion that fur belongs on the original animal, throwing paint on silly vain women wearing it in public was a very, very bad idea. Likewise, taking adoptable animals and killing them was both cruel and stupid. I also have little use for the "cruelty free" movement because there is no such thing; nothing wants to be eaten except fruit bearing trees that hope we eat the seed and poop it out elsewhere to propagate it complete with its own little manure pile.

However, the rest of the organization is doing good work.

[damntexdem]

8. Let's see: they're not as bad as the Nazis.

There, that's about as positive as I can be.

[Ignis]

22. PETA-Godwin in 8 posts: A new DU record! (nt)

[varelse]

87. ...

:spray:

[superduperfarleft]

24. How dare you insult the survivors of the Holocaust by comparing PETA to nazis!!!!1one n/t

[Ignis]

46. What was that muffled *pop* I just heard?

:D

[mstinamotorcity]

11. Look I get tired

of people trying to put animal life with the same as humans.I am an animal lover.But when you talk about thousands of animals that have no home,no one to feed or board them,just what do the PETA folks do.The only time they get on my nerves is when they forget it is people who do bad things to animals and never should any human life ever be compared to animals.And when they throw the paint on the ladies who wear the fur coats that doesn't sit well with me either.I think that they best would get their point across in a better way then that comic showmanship.

[SoCalNative]

13. Sorry but I like animals

a whole lot better than I like most people and I DO put them on a level above human life.

I don't care one iota about the people of Haiti but I have donated to animal charities who are helping to rescue and help the animals there.

And again, I DETEST PETA.

[mstinamotorcity]

27. And I put you

on a level of mistaken identity.And if you like most animals than you do people and don't give a damn about human being in Haiti or elsewhere.then we will leave you to your cat nap and your alpo smorgasbord because with you we know you you wouldn't have a pork chop.:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[mstinamotorcity]

53. NO the idiot is a person

who doesn't understand the value of human life.Mirror check.When ever you can not see your way to help human beings in need it makes me wonder what is it you do for animals. You know they say most serial killers start with small animals.This is not to call you a serial killer but it makes about as much sense as you calling me an idiot because anytime you have some one use the destruction of Haiti to say why they don't do for humans in my opinion is the idiot.And the only point you could have is the one sitting on the the top of the dunce cap you are wearing.:P :P :P

[superduperfarleft]

44. You just blew up Google Translate. Congrats. n/t

[flvegan]

12. Why don't we start with some facts.

When PETA agrees to take pets, they do so as a shelter of absolute last resort. They do so with everyone's full knowledge that those animals are most likely going to be euthanized. However, rather than an inhumane, barbaric death via a gas chamber or poorly aimed bullet, PETA does so with the same compassion your vet will euthanize your pet. Somewhere between 5 and 7 million domestic pets are euthanized each year for lack of a home. If everyone would spay/neuter their pets, and if the selfish among us would cease to breed and buy pets, maybe we could end the pet overpopulation problem and PETA, et al could not be in the business of euthanizing animals.

As for the question of they do any good? Why not go check out their website and see for yourself. www.peta.org

[Ignis]

19. Specifically, try this link:

http://www.peta.org/FeatureUtahLabs.asp

[noamnety]

17. I googled Peta + accomplishments

Found this:



•PETA first uncovered the abuse of animals in experiments in 1981 and launched the precedent-setting “Silver Spring monkeys” case. This resulted in the first arrest and criminal conviction of an animal experimenter in the United States on charges of cruelty to animals, the first confiscation of abused laboratory animals, and the first U.S. Supreme Court victory for animals in laboratories.
•PETA released 70 hours of graphic video footage that documented the appalling treatment of primates at the University of Pennsylvania head-injury laboratory, resulting in government fines and the loss of funding for the cruel study.
•PETA’s undercover investigation of a huge contract testing laboratory in Philadelphia and our subsequent campaign led to Benetton’s permanent ban on animal tests—a first for a major cosmetics company. Other leading companies, such as Avon, Revlon, and Estée Lauder, followed suit. Gillette announced a moratorium on animal tests after PETA’s 10-year campaign. PETA now lists hundreds of companies that do not test products on animals. Please visit CaringConsumer.com for details.
•After negotiations with PETA, juice-makers POM, Welch’s, and Ocean Spray agreed to stop funding animal experiments.
•PETA was victorious over the General Motors Corporation, which ended its use of animals in crash tests.
•PETA released investigators’ photographs and videotaped footage taken inside Carolina Biological Supply Company, the nation’s largest biological supply house. PETA documented that animals were removed from gas chambers and injected with formaldehyde without being checked for vital signs, as well as cats’ and rats’ struggling during embalming and employees’ spitting on animals. The company was charged by the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) with violations of the federal Animal Welfare Act (AWA).
•With the help of celebrities like Ewan McGregor and Martin Sheen; U.S., German, and Canadian government officials; and activists worldwide, PETA was able to secure the release of polar bears who had been suffering for years in the Suarez Bros. Circus. The bears are now recovering and thriving in more appropriate climates.
•PETA distributed an undercover videotape that showed Las Vegas casino “entertainer” Bobby Berosini beating orangutans with a metal rod. The U.S. Department of the Interior revoked Berosini’s captive-bred-wildlife permit, making it illegal for Berosini to buy or sell orangutans.

... more at: http://www.peta.org/factsheet/files/FactsheetDisplay.asp?ID=107

[Ignis]

23. What is this "Google" of which you speak, wizard?!

Nay, I shall not use thy "Google" to find these "facts" of which ye speak, for verily it doth sound like the work of the Devil!!

[Luciferous]

88. +1

[aikoaiko]

36. PETA does one thing right: they document organizations not following animal polices, rules & laws

This the best thing that they do.

The drama detracts from their accomplishments.

[Ignis]

41. Agreed. I'm not a fan of their Ads/Marketing, but...

To say that they do NO good at all is either ignorant or disingenuous.

[tonysam]

54. They don't do any good. Killing animals is consistent with their

belief that domesticated animals should not exist. They are extremists, and they go out of their way to hide their real agenda--abolition of animal domestication.

[Ignis]

56. Why are you repeating that falsehood? PETA does not oppose domestication.

Here's my support for my claim:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=7407539&mesg_id=7407842

Where's yours? :shrug:

[flvegan]

63. You've got a long, long wait ahead of you for a response.

Well, one that isn't either a completely made-up reply backed by the CCF or complete gibberish.

[Ignis]

64. Oh, I anticipate the crickets. That's the only support I've ever seen here.

But hey, if the first 99 times asking doesn't work, maybe the 100th will? :D

[Lisa0825]

86. Ignrid Newkirk has said "our goal is total animal liberation."

I think it was over 20 years ago, I read a transcript of an interview, and she talked about how animals should not be used for anything... pets, service animals, etc... way beyond being vegan and against use in research. I can understand the latter views, but not the opposition to companion animals.

Now maybe this is not PETA's current philosophy, but I do believe that at the very least their leader believes that.

http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Ingrid_Newkirk#On_pets

[butterfly77]

57. Doesn't matter to me ..

one way or the other especially if they were pitbulls..

[Fire1]

58. You're not losing it. They've always been bat shit crazy. n/t

[Ignis]

62. Psychoanalysis via TCP/IP? Sounds like Dr. Frist on Terri Schiavo!

:rofl:

[butterfly77]

65. Last year, somebody on here said that..

a dog or animal was more valuable than a child..

[Fire1]

68. Your point? n/t

[butterfly77]

73. My point is that ..

there are some crazy motherfuckers on DU...:crazy: :crazy: :crazy:

[Fire1]

74. Ok. But so is PETA, n/t

[butterfly77]

75. My point exactly...

[superduperfarleft]

70. Well, it's true that my cat is more valuable to me than your child. n/t

[Beaverhausen]

66. Nice hit and run post

I see you are too chickenshit to bother responding to anyone here.

[Ignis]

67. At least the first two words of the title were honest. (nt)

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

69. People Eating Tasty Animals?

I don't know, maybe PETA does some good sometimes. But it seems to me if people just wanted to help animals they'd just help animals with out all the crazy ass KKK, anti-science baggage.

[Confusious]

76. Those people you are arguing with are some sick puppies

I guess we could euthanize all the poor in the country as of right now ( Which would include me ), 'cause all they do is suffer.

Exact same argument, and it's a sick one.

[Generic Other]

79. Does PETA really euthanize most of the animals they rescue?

I was surprised to hear this. I don't know the facts.

[Ignis]

80. Nah, it's a lie that Richard Berman and the CCF are paid to spread.

Many people have been snookered by Berman's petakillsanimals.com site, which they apparently take at face value because they're desperate to believe anything negative about PETA.

Check SourceWatch to learn more about this ratfuckery and who's paying for it:
- http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Center_for_Consumer_Freedom
- http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Richard_Berman_cares_about_animals:_clients_exposed

Frankly, I'm shocked that so many DUers fall for this disinformation from an obviously right-leaning source.

[Forkboy]

82. "I'm shocked that so many DUers fall for this disinformation from an obviously right-leaning source.

I'm not. This is one of the most knee jerk sites online, and the word PETA gets those knees jerking as fast as anything.

[Ignis]

84. Bah, don't get all jaded and bitter on me now, Forkboy. :-)

DUers are still a great bunch overall, but some just don't do the same due diligence on AR issues that they would on strictly political issues. I blame the way the debate is framed in the media--and frankly, that's due in no small part to the antics of PETA's ad campaigns.

I'm just frustrated that people are allowed to spew whatever sort of crap they want about AR activists without repercussion. If I said "I know the SUPER-SECRET hidden agenda of ACORN: Enslave all White Christian Males!" an army of DUers would be all over me within minutes. Yet people are allowed to post all sorts of CT-fantasy bullshit claims about PETA or HSUS or the entire AR movement over and over and over again without a shred of support, and most DUers can't be bothered to stifle a yawn.

So it goes.

[Forkboy]

89. Too late.

;)

[Ignis]

90. Curses! If only I'd arrived seconds earlier, he could have been saved.

2009 wasn't an easy year to be a progressive, but here's hoping that things are looking up.

:toast:

[yewberry]

83. No.

They do euthanize a very high percentage of the animals they take in...but that's because they volunteer humane euthanization services to communities that cannot afford them.

That's right: they take animals that are likely to be put down inhumanely and give them a decent death. THAT is why their euthanization numbers are so high.

[leftyladyfrommo]

92. No, I don't think it is a lie.

I remember reading about this when this whole thing blew up. They interviewed the head of one of the home offices on the east coast. He admitted that they were no a shelter and could not handle the animals that were dropped off there. He said they had euthanized something lie 1900 animals at that one location. I remember it because I was so shocked.

[Ignis]

102. Think harder, then. Try reading some of the many links posted.

Do you even know what the CCF is? :shrug:

"I remember reading that the earth is flat. I'm not going to tell you where I read it, but I'm *sure* it's true! And I'm not going to read those links from those National Geographic or Discovery magazines, because they obviously have an anti-flat-earth agenda!"

:eyes:

[Forkboy]

105. It's pretty clear that you had no intention of trying to learn anything in this thread.

And that you posted it with an agenda. You were looking for confirmation of your already held beliefs, not looking to challenge them. Sad.

[Generic Other]

108. I just had a student send me links to negative articles so I was curious

I sent her a link to this thread. I hope she has the best most accurate information now. Not trying to display my own ignorance (although I have). I am still confused. I guess realistically, I know animals are put down at shelters across the country everyday. No group can save them all. Seems like they are not the problem so much as the irresponsible pet owners. I am not on the attack against PETA. Just clueless.

Funny how an issue like ethical treatment of animals could become so politically charged.

[blondeatlast]

85. Hit. run. Staple your finger.

:eyes:

[leftyladyfrommo]

91. Sorry, I just got back to a computer. I don't have one at home.

It doesn't look like anyone really knows much of anything about PETA - its all kind of smoke and mirrors.

Are there separate chapters? Maybe that's why its hard to get a good feel for what is really happening inside the group.

My gripe is that if PETA can't do rescue work right then they should stay out of it and let the people who know what they are doing go in. It is just crazy to go in, lie, take the animals, slaughter them in the parking lot and then dump the bodies in the trash. Even if they were in really bad shape they should have all been evaluated by a vet.

There are rescue groups that know what they are doing. We have good rescue groups here in Missouri. We have horrible puppy mills here - horrible. The rescuers go in with police escorts. The animals are taken out and vets look at them all. The ones that can be rehabilitated are rehabilited. Some are just in too awful shape and they are euthanized. Lots of volunteers go into action. Lots of PR gets out to the public. And it is amazing how many of those animals are rehomed. Sometimes they deal with hundreds of animals at a time.

[superduperfarleft]

93. Your questions were answered in posts 12, 17, and 19.

And no, there are no separate chapters. PETA consolidated all their "chapters" in the nineties (I think, I could be wrong on the decade).

While I think you're being incredibly disingenuous with your "questions," I will say that one of my major gripes with PETA is their approach to rescue work.

[leftyladyfrommo]

95. Those are from a PETA site. That won't work.

Of course they are going to say all positive stuff.

[superduperfarleft]

96. They list their accomplishments. That's what you asked for.

What, do you think they are lying and they didn't actually do any of that stuff?

[Ignis]

99. What a crock of shit. This was an incredibly disingenuous OP.

Don't ask questions if you're not prepared to evaluate data that runs contrary to your prejudices.

It's like asking for information about the "real" :eyes: Democratic Party platform, but refusing to click on a freaking link to the official Democratic Party website.

Let's ask the Republicans, instead! I'm sure they'll be completely honest. :banghead:

[leftyladyfrommo]

110. You can be as sarcastic as you want but I have been thru pages

of sites on Google and they all say the same stuff:

http://www.newsweek.com/id/134549

Peta.org even has a whole page explaining why they are against nokill shelters - google peta nokill shelters. Its all right there.


Peta euthanizes thousands of animals each year. They say they are not a shelter - fine. Then stay completely out of the animal rescue business. Leave it up to the people that know what they are doing and who have the resources and nohow to do it correctly.

My argument would be that they have no business saying they are for animal rights. The most fundamental right of any living creature is its right to life.

[Forkboy]

106. Thank you for showing everyone what your real goal was in this thread.

It sure wasn't to learn anything.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

97. They helped bust an exotics trader in Texas --

Say what you will about Peta, they get things done:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x7646471

[leftyladyfrommo]

98. Everything I can find says PETA euthanizes 85% of the animals

it takes in. That's from Newsweek and some other mainstream news organizations.

Newkirk said that she has killed 1,000 herself - with her own little hands. Seems they have come out against no kill shelters.

[Ignis]

100. Yippee! More source-free, context-free assertions.

Your claim that PETA is opposed to no-kill shelters is baseless, ignorant, and unsupported.

But I'm sure you knew that. :dunce:

[tkmorris]

104. Yes, PETA secretly is on a mission to kill all animals

Do you have ANY idea how ridiculous this sounds?

[Forkboy]

107. "Everything I can find"....riiiiiight.

[yewberry]

109. Did you not read *anything* in this thread?

Peta is not an animal adoption agency.

Once more for the slow: Peta provides humane euthanization services for communities that cannot afford them themselves. We are talking about animals that will be shot in the head or gassed, *not* animals that will be placed in homes.

Because no one else will do it, Peta euthanizes animals as kindly as possible in order to avoid painful or frightening deaths. Yes, if they were an animal adoption service their numbers would be abysmal; that is not what they do, and they make no secret of it.


Or are you one of those people who think that animals don't deserve a decent death?

[Karmadillo]

111. PETA owns 93% of all factory farms. They want veal served in all school cafeterias. Hitler belonged

to PETA. In order to be hired by PETA, you have to kidnap a dog and vivisect it at their Norfolk headquarters (the locals call it the House of Death--it's true--ask anybody from Norfolk). The facts are there for anyone with the courage to look for them. These facts are all cited in respectable publications I don't have time to link to.

[Therellas]

101. better than abandonment.

better than slow starvation.
better than abuse.