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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 07:27 PM
Original message
The Grate Society
Sometimes, I think that everything is connected. For example, after this morning's medical appointment, I stopped at an art store, to but some supplies for my children. By no coincidence, the supplies will assist them in a project that involves the publication of a book on some important connections in human cultures. As I was speaking to the owner of the store about local and global archaeology, we discovered that he had been my oldest sibling's art teacher in high school.

“The world is a very small place,” he noted. “And everything is connected.”

Sometimes, I've questioned if things that connect in my mind, make much of any sense to others. For example, recently one of my good friends on this forum posted something about a republican's claim about the political outlook of Martin Luther King, Jr., early on in the 1960 presidential election. Weeks later, and partly in response, I posted a brief H2O Man survey, asking what individuals or groups other members here believed were trustworthy, when it was most important. It's possible, of course, that if anyone has ventured this far, they might be wondering how these two things are connected? Or, is it merely an optical delusion in H2O Man's mind's eye?

I'll try to be brief.

In 1957, VP Nixon – with an eye on the 1960 election – was advocating for a civil rights bill. The Senate Majority Leader, Lyndon Johnson, favored the legislation, but recognized that it would be hard to get it passed, as proposed. Now, I'm going off memory, and so I'll try to keep it relatively simple. In the Democratic Party, there were numerous factions: liberals from the northeast; Dixiecrats; and others that have faded into obscurity.

Nixon was, of course, a strange fellow. He was of the opinion that different races and ethnic groups were of very different intellectual abilities; yet, he believed that a person was entitled to any job they were capable of doing, and should have the right to buy any product from a store, or home in any neighborhood, that they could afford. Thus, he backed the proposed bill.

However, one might suspect that Nixon recognized the bill could split the factions within the opposition party, harming LBJ, and helping Nixon's chances in 1960.

A third politician, Senator John F. Kennedy, did not have strong views on civil rights issues in 1957. His role in this part of the story was minor. Johnson was tasked with helping strip the proposed legislation of some important sections, that civil rights leaders felt were essential. LBJ took the position that passing part of a lesser bill was better than losing on a greater proposal. As a result, civil rights leaders, including Daddy King, not only came away with a positive view of Nixon, but were convinced that LBJ was an untrustworthy Texas wheeler and dealer.

When JFK picked LBJ in '60, several factions within the party were unhappy. Equally upset were most civil rights leaders, who believed that Kennedy showed promise. Again, briefly, after Martin Luther King, Jr., was incarcerated before the election, and the Kennedy brothers attempted to assist him, people like Daddy King came out in support of the democratic ticket.

As president, JFK had LBJ take positions that were aimed at helping blacks in gaining civil rights. Some were done quietly, but the civil rights leaders were familiar with LBJ's efforts to gain economic and voting rights advances. Before Dallas, a number of the more mainstream civil rights leaders had come to favor Johnson over Kennedy.

After Dallas, LBJ would advance many of the programs from the Kennedy efforts. He did it in a more public way. He knew that his actions risked a large split in the Democratic Party, and that as the 1964 election was on the horizon, it could lead to his defeat.

One of the things that has been largely forgotten – purposely so, in my opinion – is that LBJ took the intelligence reports from the FBI, CIA, and the military (for they were watching the civil rights movement for many years), and showed it to the leading racists from the south. He noted that they needed to update their thinking. The NAACP, which many had called a communist-influenced threat, was now a moderate group, Johnson showed them. CORE was actually centrist. The college students were moving to the left. And the Nation of Islam, and in particular Minister Malcolm X, were now not only the most radical of groups, but were gaining in influence at the fastest rate.

Thus, although not out of any sense of good-will, fairness, or respect for the Constitution, the racist democrats in Congress eased up their efforts to stop LBJ's efforts to promote civil rights, including those efforts aimed at “poverty” in general.

So, what does this have to do with my little survey? I thought that while DU is a relatively small group, it does reflect the views of the progressive/liberal democratic left. And, like across the country, many people here have expressed a lack of faith in the elected representatives in Washington. Some do not trust President Obama; most don't trust Congress; and none trust the Supreme Court. More, there is less belief that many/most of the formerly reliable groups are actually out for the average man or woman anymore.

Just as the move to the left by the grass roots in the civil rights movement helped LBJ get the rabid Washington “leaders” to stop fighting any and all progressive legislation, (and even moved some centrist civil rights leaders to ask, off the record, for the other groups to apply increased pressure on DC), the same dynamics can and should be applied today.

Thanks,
H2O Man
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onethatcares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 07:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. when I first clicked on this post,
I was thinking of the homeless that spend their winters sleeping on or staying close to the heated grates from the mechanical rooms of the large office buildings.

Then, I began to think of how I grew up in those times. Johnsons' Great Society was trashed back then as just another hand out to the poor blacks that many did not think should have anything at all. When the voting rights act was passed, it scared the hell out of the power structure.

I'm looking back to a time that I was 13 and the newspaper images are not as clear, nor are the columns written, but I do remember.

Amazingly enough, LBJ was a pretty good president.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 09:28 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Interesting.
I think that the image of homeless people sleeping on heated grates does fit here. Again, though, it might just be me. But in the post-WW2 US, there was a curious phenomenon. It involved a split in the way that Christian ministers attempted to deliver their message.

Due to the three great fears of the day for the American middle class -- atomic weapons, godless communists, and the meaninglessness of materialism -- one group, perhaps led by Norman Vincent Peale, taught a "be happy!" form of novocaine gospel. Another group, led by Billy Graham, taught a rigid "right versus wrong." And, of course, the black ministers were moving towards a form of liberation theology.

The last group, which was relatively small, taught the neo-othodoxy that we think of in association with Reinhold Niebuhr. Now, LBJ purposely avoided attempting to sound like he was schooled in any topic, other than the politics of Washington. Being compared to the Kennedy Clan and "the best and brightest" caused him discomfort. However, when we look closely at the man, not only do we find that he had a good grasp of what the separation of church and state implies in the best context, but he had an understanding of what Niebuhr was advocating in the context of social justice. Early in his presidency, he met with the black clergy, and urged them to expand their calls for social justice. More, he took Graham's "right versus wrong," and turned it skillfully against those who sought to justify the economic divisions in our society. LBJ made clear that there could be no Constitutional democracy in America, so long as there was a level of economic injustice that allowed the violence of poverty to exist in the streets of America.

I'd like to see more of the progressive/liberal left use that form of communication today.

Thank you for reading and responding to my OP. I appreciate it.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:33 AM
Response to Reply #3
14. How would you propose to increase that communication?
It seems there are many more ways to increase it while at the same time, polarization is increasing two fold.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
19. Good question.
I'll start with an example from when I used to train the students from the state university's masters program, when they were doing their time at the clinic. One lady told me that she was experiencing some frustration, because she had had numerous conversations with a person, about the consequences of certain behaviors. Yet the same behaviors continued, which allowed the same cycle of consequences to damage the person's daily life.

I sat in on their next session. While the student/therapist went through a short list of options, and discussed their consequences, the person would nod in agreement. But, I was sure that real communication was not taking place. It really wasn't clicking. For while some people do well with the spoken word, and others benefit from reading, many others need something more concrete.

During their discussion, I had taken three blank papers. On each, I made drawings; first showing the action, then the consequence, of each of the three options. Then, when we reviewed the discussion with the person, I used these drawings. It clicked, and the behavior changed. In one of our staff meetings, the student expressed some surprise that something as simple as my drawings had worked.She had not learned this in her classes, so perhaps there was some benefit to her time as an intern at the clinic.

Now, Martin Luther King, Jr., was an outstanding communicator. His speeches include at least three that rank highly among the great American speeches of all time. His writings are likewise important, though more people today are familiar with parts of a couple of those speeches. Yet, there were many people who did not fully grasp his message, as delivered from the spoken or printed word. So King drew some pictures, with his public demonstrations, that illustrated the graphic nature of the injustices he was confronting. When those pictures got air-time on the evening news, it clicked.

For some time on this forum, I have advocated that people could communicate a message far better by using King's tactics, than from simply writing, speaking, or engaging in the types of marches and rallies that are popular today. It may well be that such activities would, at least at first, draw a small core group. Not everyone is interested or willing to drink from that same cup that Martin and his friends did. But, like King, we should have faith in the Power of Ideas. Sometimes, they click. And then small groups grow.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #19
20. Great explanation and answer.
I have noticed through the years working with children with disabilities the power of the visual in aiding comprehension. I think what has surprised me the most in the last decade, has been how the right in this country can tell a lie, use repetition, and later it becomes not only a belief, but an absolute with those that follow them. I often wonder how the truth has become so hard to grasp for many people, but a lie can go so far. I suppose in that regard, it is related to mind framing.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 07:58 PM
Response to Original message
2. Now This Is A Fascinating OP
Edited on Tue Feb-02-10 07:58 PM by Me.
Very clever of you to hand out hope along with the exhortation/caveat that our fate is in our own hands. The saying we are the change we've been waiting for' has, at times, been said with such banality it should be handed out with a smiley. But if taken seriously, it screams the truth. And I wonder if we will have to get to the point in this country where the screams are so loud that we finally take action. And I can't help wondering about those in the KOS poll. Who are these people and what branch of humanity have they spring from?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 09:30 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. The evolution of a culture
depends upon the evolution of that culture's individuals. The evolution of an individual is the evolution of their consciousness. Our conscious mind cannot evolve unconsciously. Hence, from time to time, I attempt to post something that just might spark thought on this forum.

Can't blame me for trying!
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 09:56 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Reality leaves a lot to the imagination
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #6
10. Right.
We are experiencing the consequences, not only from yeterday's actions, but from our culture's inability to act differently today. And it is impossible -- absolutely, without question impossible -- for us to act differently today, unless we start thinking differently now. That, and only that, can bring about progressive changes in the future.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 09:59 PM
Response to Reply #4
7. how dare you!!!!
r
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. It would seem
that I would know better, doesn't it? Yet I still do believe that miracles are possible, and that to discount that possibility is being unrealistic. It's just that miracles take a heck of a lot of work to accomplish.
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Swamp Rat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 09:33 PM
Response to Original message
5. k&r
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:28 AM
Response to Reply #5
12. Thanks!
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corkhead Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 10:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Thanks again H2O man for another thoughtful post.
Edited on Tue Feb-02-10 10:56 PM by corkhead
The strategy you speak of has worked very successfully for the rabid right for over 30 years. It is time we take a page out of their playbook.

an aside: I hope you are doing well.

corkhead.

edit to fix spelling
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
13. Malcolm used to say
that of all the sources available for us to study, history is of the greatest value. What was working for the civil rights movement -- which Malcolm correctly defined as the quest for human rights -- can work for us today.
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Feb-02-10 11:03 PM
Response to Original message
9. I proudly espouse the "leftist, progressive" agenda...
that in my estimation is a much more widespread - in terms of people's core values - than the corrupt, corporate propagandists would have us believe.

That was a terrible run-on sentence, but I'm tired and not too alert.

Good to have you here, H2O Man
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #9
15. I often tend
to run-on in sentences, paragraphs, and essays ..... so I never think anything of it if others do. Maybe I "suffer" from run-on thinking? Or others who attempt to follow my thinking endure the true suffering!

Anyhow, when we look at something such as the progressive-liberal position on health care, it indeed illustrates the stark difference between human values, compared to the corrupt position that the corrupt corporate swines cling to. It's worth noting that health care was not only of importance to LBJ, but that it was a significant part of what even Richard Nixon advocated for this country. When today's democrats stand to the right of Richard Nixon on health care, it is clear that the progressive-liberal community does not owe them any support, whatsoever.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
16. your recollection of that era is astounding.
K&R

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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 10:15 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. One of my favorite
periods of history to study is the decade of the 1960s. I remember quite a bit of it; I also had the advantage of a father and two older brothers who were as interested in politics as I am, and who were constantly discussing (and debating!) events; plus I have a rather large library, which includes hundreds of books on the '60s.

It's funny, your post reminded me of something from this weekend. My older daughter was having her 16th birthday party. Thus, our house was filled with 16 friends, plus both daughters. My sons, wife, and I spent most of the weekend in distant regions of the house. Anyhow, during one time when one son and I were downstairs, one of the guests asked me a question about a foreign culture. I said, "well, now, that's interesting ..." Before I could continue, my 12-year old rolled her eyes, and said, "Oh, great. Here comes the one-hour lecture on history." My son and I almost died laughing.
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Soylent Brice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 12:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
25. lol
i kind of had a similar time growing up. my dad is a huge history buff. to this day it drives my family insane. me personally, i'm always captivated.

he would rattle on about something, and i would find myself the next day at the library with my nose stuck in a book about the same subject trying to learn more. at times i often wondered if my drive to know more was partly just the way i am, and other times i wondered if it was to be able to show him i learned more about a particular subject (or to maybe prove him wrong every now and then)...

:evilgrin:


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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:43 AM
Response to Original message
17. k&r
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 08:54 AM
Response to Original message
18. Very thoughtful.
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 08:55 AM by zeemike
And thanks for telling the history part...so few know what actually happened, and that ignorance allows for the re-writing of history....Ignorance is Strength said the party of Big Brother and that applies to reality as well as fiction.

But i am not sure that things are quite the same now...Then there was TV but it was not the monster it is today....now it is all about image and the creation of image. What the media says is real becomes real.

When it comes right down to it our only hope to change things is to come together at the roots and take back the institutions that say they represent our internists. And that must include the media because there is where images are created and sustained, and where the re writing of history is done.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #18
23. Right.
Many things have changed, including technology that is used (and abused) for communications. So we cannot simply tryto do exactly the same thing. As LBJ said, "To master change, we must change." (June, 1965) We need to learn from history, but we must have open minds, and be creative in our approach.
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TexasObserver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
21. "And I'm a gonna do it!" --- LBJ, about his social initiatives to help the oppressed
Edited on Wed Feb-03-10 09:36 AM by TexasObserver
I grew up in the 1950s and 1960s in Texas, and when LBJ ascended to the presidency, I was a teenager. I still remember his speeches of that era, and how he firmly said he was going to do something about the poverty he had seen all his life, about how he was going to do something about medical care for the elderly, about how he was going to see civil rights legislation passed, and how he insisted on voting rights laws to enforce the rights of black voters and others.

I also remember the fierce opposition to LBJ's actions, and how much many of his former supporters split with him over civil rights. I remember vividly hearing my father call out one of his business acquaintances for telling a joke making fun of the 1964 Civil Rights act and using the N word. I never heard my dad chew anyone out like that. He had been involved in pro civil rights work for several years, and our family was involved in integrated activities that were truly rare back then. I can remember going to black churches as early as 1959, and it was unheard of for any white person to be in a black church in Texas in that pre 1964 era.

LBJ took the bull by the horns, though, and passed his vision. His legislative accomplishments stand out as the most successful domestic programs since FDR. If only he had not fallen head long into the abyss of Vietnam, he would be heralded today as one of the greatest presidents in our history.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #21
24. I agree.
My father used to say that but for Vietnam, LBJ would rank just below Lincoln and FDR. He was a strange but powerful force in American politics.
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Feb-03-10 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #24
26. K
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